Florida official says he can's suspend concealed carry permit of Trayvon Martin's shooter

[workinclasszero]

Florida official says he can's suspend concealed carry permit of Trayvon Martin's shooter

By KATIE SANDERS — Herald/Times Tallahassee Bureau

Posted: 2:31pm on Mar 20, 2012; Modified: 2:32pm on Mar 20, 2012

A civil rights group wants the state to suspend the concealed carry permit of George Zimmerman as investigators probe the shooting death of black teenager Trayvon Martin.

But Agriculture Commissioner Adam Putnam, whose agency oversees concealed weapons permits, said he can't do anything without pending criminal charges or a felony conviction. In Florida, felons are not allowed to carry concealed weapons without restoration of their civil rights and firearm authority.

State law also prevents Putnam's agency from identifying people who have applied for or received a permit, so he can't specifically talk about Zimmerman as a permit holder.

Read more here: http://www.bradenton.com/2012/03/20/3950997/florida-official-says-he-cans.html#storylink=cpy

[workinclasszero]

1. Florida is safe for racist killers

Visit Florida today!

If you're not black of course.....

[MrScorpio]

2. Well, let's get this due process thingy a-goin'!

Justice is waiting.

[workinclasszero]

6. Do you think the shooter is even in the country?

The Sanford police force and the state of Florida is giving Zimmerman plenty of time to flee the country and escape justice for his crime.

[MrScorpio]

9. Good question!

He should be behind bars right now so they'd know where he is.

[freshwest]

15. That's my opinion, too.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

39. DA said it was going to the Grand Jury...that is the start of the formal process

[Hoyt]

3. JEEEEZZZZZ. WTF.

[got root]

4. has the murder weapon been secured for evidence

at least?

or would that be again the law, too

[grasswire]

7. good question n/t

[ellisonz]

53. Excellent point.

Doubtful though since he wasn't arrested given it's his property.

[Old and In the Way]

5. I must be tripping.

This is just too strange.

Guy murders another guy...and we need to protect the murderer's right to continue to carry a concealed weapon.
And it's the friggen Argricultural Department that's making the call.

This is the republican vision of America that awaits us.

[workinclasszero]

8. This is the republican vision of America that awaits us.

This is the republican vision of America that awaits us.
This is the republican vision of America that awaits us.
This is the republican vision of America that awaits us.
This is the republican vision of America that awaits us..........

[winstars]

12. Agriculture Department!!!!????

WTF is wrong with that state?

Was it in "Seven Days in May" where the Prez and the VP and others are killed and the AGRICULTURE SECRETARY is the next in line of succession??? That was supposed to be fictional!!!

[Old and In the Way]

14. If you want a plumbing permit, I suppose you go see the public transit supervisor.

I guess this falls in line with the republican philosophy that governments can't work...especially if you set them up to fail.

[X_Digger]

10. Yes, we don't typically remove licenses without due process.

This is a good thing.

Had Zimmerman been arrested and charged, that would have satisfied the requirement, and his permit would have (will be) suspended.

Upon conviction, it will be revoked.

[Old and In the Way]

16. And in the meantime?

What if he kills someone else? Still have to wait?

"Without due process." Right, like Treyvor's due processes weren't violated.

[X_Digger]

18. Yes, police (or you, or me, or John Doe)..

don't get to decide to suspend someone's license (for anything) just because.

If you get convicted of reckless driving, your license is suspended for 90 days.

That means up until the judge bangs the gavel, your license is still valid.

Is there something about due process that I can help you understand?

[Old and In the Way]

20. Killing someone isn't driving.

If the public's safety takes second place to this guys "rights", this society is fucked.

[X_Digger]

21. What criteria should the police use in such cases?

I only ask out of general curiosity- I actually believe in the 5th / 14th amendments.

[Old and In the Way]

34. Common sense wouldn't be bad.

And, lets ask Martin what he thinks of the 5th and 14th Amendments. Oh shit, we can't. Zimmerman killed him.

[X_Digger]

35. There's no due process in 'common sense'.

"Because a cop said so" does not meet that burden.

How about having a cop revoke a parade permit because they wish to?

How about having a cop revoke a voting registration?

We (as a nation) don't allow that kind of latitude when it comes to our rights.

Yes, sometimes the consequences suck. The alternative would be much, much worse.

[Old and In the Way]

40. Let's take them one at a time.

Parade permit does not equal killing someone.
Voter registration permit does not equal killing someone.

Kill somebody (could care less if it's in defense, accident, or murder)...you take away that person's right to carry a gun until he cleared or convicted. Do you seriously have a problem with this? Does any one person's right to a gun permit exceed society's right to be safe?

[X_Digger]

41. The state has no power to do so absent due process. Period.

I can't condone violating a person's 5th and 14th amendment rights, no matter how vile.

When he is charged, his permit will be suspended. When convicted, revoked.

[Old and In the Way]

46. Well, I hope you never experience the situation directly.

I hope no one you love is killed in similar circumstances as this very situation. Because it will sound very strange to hear you say, "sorry, loved one, but your killer's 5th and 14th Amendment rights were far more important to protect than your existence."

[X_Digger]

47. I would say it, were it my family.

You see, I don't change my mind about supporting rights based on whether or not I'm the victim.

It's easy to maintain your convictions when it's someone else's problem.

[Old and In the Way]

51. Good for you. A person of deep convictions.

I had an acquaintance back 30 years ago who was a very earnest gun advocate - he lost a brother to a handgun murder. It changed his whole outlook on a lot of things, one being guns, in general. Got rid of his collection and never touched one again, as far as I know. Never really recovered from his brother's murder...pretty much spiraled down from there, drinking himself to an early grave 10 years ago.

[NYC Liberal]

44. It doesn't matter. Rights are rights.

You can't say the Constitution only applies in cases involving certain crimes but not others. Everyone gets the benefit of due process whether they are accused of murder or a misdemeanor.

And due process here would mean being formally charged - not being convicted. The bar is already low. We don't need to lower it further.

[Old and In the Way]

48. Some people's rights apparently supercede victims rights.

I'm sorry, but this discussion is burning me out and this is probably the last post of the night. There are 2 things going on in this case as I see.

(1) A PD that chose not to arrest the shooter at the crime scene because
(2) SYG

Without SYG and no corroborating witnesses to support the shooter story, he would have been arrested on murder. With SVG and no corroborating witnesses, he is presumed not guilty and not arrested.

The moral of the story? If you plan to murder, do it in a SYG state.

[amandabeech]

52. If the Grand Jury Indicts,

his permit will be revoked.

[kestrel91316]

26. In the meantime he can concealed carry to a deposition in the civil

lawsuit Martin's family WILL FILE, and when he "feels threatened" by them, he can shoot them dead, too.

Hey, FL wanted this. I guess that's life.

[X_Digger]

27. Would depend on where the deposition is held as to whether he could carry.

Most law offices are conspicuously posted, and court offices are statutorily off-limits.

[kestrel91316]

32. Signs will stop this freak. Right.

[X_Digger]

33. They tend to, as far as concealed carriers as a group go.

Obviously, this guy may be the exception.

But I was actually addressing Kestrel's contention that he could carry to the deposition.

Even if his permit were suspended, that wouldn't physically stop him from carrying a gun.

[JVS]

50. If he brings his gun to an off-limits area, charges will be filed and he will lose his CW permit.

[Old and In the Way]

36. OK...he waits outside than kills them because he felt threatened.

Now what? Cool..right? Still gotta wait for that due process!

Fact is, Mr. Zimmerman might then say, "hey, I'm probably fucked anyways, but since I still have a CC and I'm walking around free, I might as well shoot a few more." Sure hope the State expedites the paperwork!

[X_Digger]

37. 'feels threatened' is not the criteria set out as a defense in the law.

I know, that's the language pundits have been using, but it's not actually true.

[div class='excerpt']776.012 Use of force in defense of person.

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

Emotions are running high. You might want to reflect on the actual law a bit.

[Old and In the Way]

43. "reasonably believes"

Sure is a wide open interpretation, isn't it. I wonder how many times a shooter has said...yeah, I killed him and I don't reasonably believe I was threatened. I'll bet not often.

that statute does a great job of protecting the killer's rights. Unfortunately, the dead person's rights, not so much. He's dead...he doesn't count anymore.

[X_Digger]

45. The 'reasonableness' will be evaluated at the Grandy Jury and trial

It's not whether he believed it, but whether he can convince a jury that any reasonable person would.

That language has been part of self-defense law from the start- it's not new.

[Old and In the Way]

49. In the meantime, he's free to kill again.

God Bless America and our Constitutional right to kill people (until Grand Jury, of course).

[X_Digger]

55. He should have been arrested on the spot, and charged the next day.

Having been charged, his license would have been suspended.

[Baitball Blogger]

11. Why doesn't anyone get it?

Florida is a libertarian state. It has been moving in that direction for years which is why it's such a shit can.

[Old and In the Way]

17. If I'm black and living in FL...or any "stand your ground state"...I'd be getting myself armed

in a hurry. I guess that's the whole idea, right? get more guns in the hands of the general public...lots of money to be made for gun manufacturers.

[Johnny Rico]

23. If you don't want to put money in the hands of gun manufacturers,

simply buy a quality used firearm. A well cared for gun will last for centuries.

[Baitball Blogger]

28. What we need to do is use this example to show how we're

spiraling down the wrong abyss.

[Fawke Em]

13. BIIIIIIGGGGG SSIIIIIIIIIIGHHH... *fucking coon*

And that's what he said.

Fuck his permit.

Does he work? If so, where? My husband and I would like to know. We'd like to find out why this FUCK is still employed.


All I have to know is... BIIIIIIGGGGG SSIIIIIIIIIIGHHH... *fucking coon*

And that's what he said.

[Old and In the Way]

19. Well, if you have a gun and see him on the street, I think you already have justification to shoot.

An armed murderer that's still on the streets with a valid CW permit makes him automatically a threat. Stand your ground and drop him.

[Johnny Rico]

22. Due process. What a concept! n/t

[kestrel91316]

24. "Can's" is not a word. Please clarify.

[LonePirate]

25. So the RW wants the world to know who has an abortion but CC applicants\holders must remain private?

The former is none of my damn business and impacts me in no way while the latter could potentially end my life. WTF is wrong with these people?

[Hugabear]

30. No shit - we should have the right to know who is armed in our neighborhoods

If you know the deranged racist asshole down the street has a concealed weapons permit, then perhaps you think twice about letting your children walk around the neighborhood.

[Old and In the Way]

38. Well said. nt

[gratuitous]

29. We can blow away citizens on little more than authority than the push of a button

But we can't go around willy-nilly revoking someone's concealed carry permit, even when there's a tape of the gunman plugging his victim. Nice country we used to have here.

[Politicalboi]

31. So

State law also prevents Putnam's agency from identifying people who have applied for or received a permit. But some state laws would let EVERYONE know who had an abortion. I can see they respect the gun owners privacy. Of course unless if that gun owner gets an abortion.

This case may already be a lost cause. These cops were as sloppy as the cops in Denver for Jon Bennett. He could skate all due to cops who didn't investigate, and just took his word. Police cover up in this case is only going to help Zimmerman.

[Faryn Balyncd]

42. He's so "squeaky clean" Chief Lee probably thinks he should be issued an Uzi, and give seminars...

[TeamsterDem]

54. He deserves due process under the law

Just as I hope he gets his due process rights to defend himself from what ought to be a 2nd degree murder charge. Every American citizen deserves their day in court for crimes alleged to have occurred on US soil.

If he's as racist as he sounds on that tape I'm sure his due process will result in prison time AND a forfeiture of his CCW. But he does at least deserve due process.