General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLike it or not, Glenn Greenwald is actually a bigot who is against immigration
Greenwald's own words:
The parade of evils caused by illegal immigration is widely known, and it gets worse every day. In short, illegal immigration wreaks havoc economically, socially, and culturally; makes a mockery of the rule of law; and is disgraceful just on basic fairness grounds alone. Few people dispute this, and yet nothing is done.
SNIP......
But one of the most disturbing and destructive aspects of illegal immigration is that it is illegal. Indeed, that is the precise attribute which separates good immigration from bad immigration. Why should Republicans, or anyone, shy away from pointing out that illegal immigration, among its many evils, is illegal? That is just absurd. Moreover, it is precisely the fact that illegal immigrants enter the country illegally that spawns justifiable resentment, not only among large clusters of middle-of-the-road voters, but also among the very legal immigrant population about which Sanchez is so concerned. Emphasizing the "illegal" part of this problem is what Republicans need to do more of, not less.
SNIP..
The real irony here is that the problem of illegal immigration is actually one of the very few of the ever-dwindling number of issues that has the opportunity to forge common ground among factions of voters which are, these days, engaged in a ceaseless war with each other. Being worried, and outraged, about illegal immigration is not confined to the extreme precincts of conservatism. Middle-class suburban voters whose primary concerns are local and pragmatic, rather than ideological, know the danger which illegal immigration poses to their communities and to their states, and they want something done about it.
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2005/11/gop-fights-itself-on-illegal.html
Oh...did you know he also defended a white supremacist?
Glenn Greenwald Unethically Taped Witnesses While Working for Matt Hale, White Supremacist.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002101211
Greenwald is a bigot.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)I tremble in fear that someone, somewhere ever had an objectionable thought, and that automatically dilutes anything they have to say in the public discourse.
My goodness, he isn't a miracle worker or a candidate for sainthood, so how can you listen to THAT GUY?
(even worse, he makes the guy I regularly beatify look bad. That should be excommunication from the Democratic party and the "good guys" party, right there.)
rgbecker
(4,834 posts)Saturday, November 19, 2005
The GOP fights itself on Illegal Immigration
GG note: This post was written in 2005, one month after I began blogging. It was recently dug up by some Obama cultists trying to discredit my criticisms of the President (to understand what I mean by "Obama cultists," see this 2006 post I wrote about Bush cultists: exactly the same mentality). http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/02/do-bush-followers-have-political.html As my subsequent writing reflects over the next many years, this post does not remotely reflect my views on immigration. My response to someone who recently asked about it is here:
That was a 6 yrs ago: 3 weeks after I began blogging, when I had zero readers. I've discussed many times before how there were many uninformed things I believed back then, before I focused on politics full-time - due to uncritically ingesting conventional wisdom, propaganda, etc. I've written many times since then about how immigrants are exploited by the Right for fear-mongering purposes. I'm 100% in favor of amnesty, think defeat of the DREAM Act was an act of evil, etc. That said, I do think illegal immigration is a serious problem: having millions of people live without legal rights; having a legal scheme that is so pervasively disregarded breeds contempt for the rule of law; virtually every country - not just the U.S. insists on border control because having a manageable immigration process is vital on multiple levels. But that post is something I wrote literally a few weeks after I began blogging when nobody was reading my blog; it was anything but thoughtful, contemplative, and informed, and - like so many things I thought were true then - has nothing to do with what I believe now.
That's why Obama cultists have to dig back 6 years into my archives to try to find things to discredit me.
<snip>
Link: http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2005/11/gop-fights-itself-on-illegal.html
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)We all have things we chime in on, but you are smarter than this, MsAnthrope. Your name tells me you are.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)not only in the thread referenced above but here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3046099
Greenwald fucked up a privilege rule. as a result the plaintiffs were able to obtain privilege material and Hale settled.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Again, you are too educated for this kind of low attack.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Is this why he no longer practices law in THIS country?
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I'm tending to my business right this minute. Your filth is not acceptable. You own the words, and you own the hate. Work on purging your own racism before hypocritically calling someone else out. You have no standing.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)why don't write a LTTE? Or better yet, call Skinner?
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I have no need of advice from you. If your reference was to the liberal leaders in Latin America, you should have said so. Then you'd just be a right-winger and not so much a racist. But that's not what you said, and yes, it does matter. Do you have any idea what most of us would call a Republican who said such a thing? I think you do. But for some non-intuitive reason, you're not called that, because you're a "good Democrat".
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)then count me as guilty. The one thing we can both agree on, is that WE "have no need of advice" from one another. Perhaps the next time you see my name, you can resist the urge to respond, or place me on Ignore?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)because obviously the shovel isn't digging the hole deep enough for this one.
think
(11,641 posts)During their educational endeavors......
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 8, 2014, 12:21 AM - Edit history (1)
Which makes this even more ludicrous.
This is disgusting. If I was on a right wing site, I could understand, but this kind of racism on DU? Never thought it would happen.
frwrfpos
(517 posts)ive been seeing a lot of from many members here..this site and unfortunately the Democratic Party has been infiltrated and infested for some time. and it seems to ok with this sites admins. tells us all significantly whats been going on and how thoroughly the infiltration is.
take from that what you will
Aerows
(39,961 posts)This is really rather shocking, disgusting and horrid.
I never thought my party would put up with this kind of nonsense.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)and you still don't think Latin America has a few reasons to hate the US?
You got some imperialism in your racism.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)What a weasely way to go about arguing.
Fuck Latin America's lame ass leaders who blame the US for all their woes. If that's "Republican",
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4461024
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Repeated abuse toward Latin Americans.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Feb 7, 2014, 09:43 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This one is a no brainer. The alerter who started it by slamming Tarheel should take his advice and keep their mouth shut instead of calling out the person under false pretenses (See Post#22).
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Give me a break. This was alerted on to stifle any
further discussion IMO, and as such is a childish way to end an argument. LEAVE IT
The three people who voted to hide didn't even bother to say why. I bet they also didn't bother to look at the context of the conversation.
Nevermind. I'll just stick with "OH my".
bvar22
(39,909 posts)#1- Everybody pushes "View Post" anyway,
so Alerting is an exercise in futility.
But #2- I WANT this persons comments visible in all their "glory" for everyone to read and associate with his/her Screen Name,
and also the Screen Names of those who support this kind of bullshit.
You can go back up top,
and view the Screen names of those who recommend this by pressing the "Thread Info" button.
I wish this entire thread was at the top of the Greatest List
so EVERYBODY could view this shameful display,
and KNOW exactly what we are dealing with here.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant,
and EXPOSURE is the best remedy.
Though you will NEVER get this handful of willful distorters to ever admit an error,
the vast majority of those who read this thread are smart enough to see through this kind of
divisive propaganda, and are clever enough to recognize pathetic weaseling when they see it.
It is for those readers that I post my comments in this thread.
reddread
(6,896 posts)thats exactly right. People think they can banish racism by eliminating words from everyday use.
The skulking menace of shadowy racism is much more dangerous than open practice.
I have never felt the sort of weight it brings to a society as I have doing time in Kentucky.
and not from those polite, educated white folks in Lexington.
From the black population I have encountered, ever so tangentially.
Im OK with the subtle aura of dislike, I understand, now.
I am not OK with the historical and contemporary causes.
Racism and classism are the top symptoms of our sociopathy, and trying to cover it up is
exacerbating the problem. Sometimes the objections and name calling can seem to go over the top
compared to the everyday practice of nationalistic hatreds, which seem so mundane.
You and everyone else who rejects this poison are correct in questioning its proximity to a Democratic Party discussion.
If not here and now, when?
bvar22
(39,909 posts)----Bolivian Reform President Evo Morales
FDR said much the same thing in 1944 with his Economic Bill of Rights,
so the concept is not that radical.
Our neighbors in Latin America have managed to take their governments from the hands of the 1%
through near bloodless Ballot Box Revolutions.
The have diverted a percentage of Corporate Profits to:
*Heal the Sick
*Feed the Hungry
*Educate the ignorant
*Shelter the homeless
...I can see why you hate them so much!
I pray these populist reforms will immigrate to El Norte!
VIVA Democracy!
..and shame on you for that boorish, crude comment.
You CAN go back and edit it,
or post a retraction,
or be known for it on D.
You weaseling upthread was ineffective.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)And get educated.
Here's a link: http://www.abebooks.com/What-Uncle-Sam-Wants-Real-Story/12078747279/bd?cm_mmc=gmc-_-gmc-_-PLA-_-v01
Puglover
(16,380 posts)"Perhaps the next time you see my name, you can resist the urge to respond, or place me on Ignore?"
IOW Quit pointing out my on the record bigoted screeds.
To coop a BOG favorite.
Response to Puglover (Reply #65)
Aerows This message was self-deleted by its author.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)About the only thing worse than racist remarks is attempting to rationalize racist remarks. Or maybe the speaker has evolved since then...
bvar22
(39,909 posts)See Upthread. ^
Aerows
(39,961 posts)But we can always hope.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)That's a new one.
QC
(26,371 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Puglover
(16,380 posts)a few days ago in small town here in Ecuador. I should have given him this "posters" greetings. LOL
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)his earlier moves, especially regarding reporters and media outlets.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)He is wildly popular here. And the PTB just like the bankers and the Koch brothers in the US are out to get him.
However unlike in the US News Models cannot spout lies 24 in 7 via whatever media outlet they have available. We have strict libel laws here.
And 90 percent of Ecuadorians like it. Oh and not that I count but so do I.
babylonsister
(171,090 posts)idea you lived in Ecuador. I'm so jealous!
Puglover
(16,380 posts)it is Paradise. 70-75 everyday. 50 at night. The only downside (and it bugs me) is the days are always 12 hours long.
babylonsister
(171,090 posts)have you lived there? And yes, springtime year round sounds delightful! And I guess you can get lots accomplished with so much daylight, or get sunproof curtains?!
Puglover
(16,380 posts)Lived here off and on since then. Moving down permanently between July and Oct.
I live outside Otavalo between Mt Imbabura and Mt Cotacachi. It is stunning. The people are gentle and kind. Thus my very strong reaction when someone refers to it as "a boil on the anus on the world."
I took this out my back door yesterday.
What I meant about the day length I wish it were a bit longer everyday.
babylonsister
(171,090 posts)You are one lucky duck there; that is so stunning!
And lots of people around here have no idea what they're talking about. Obviously. You have every right to defend your new home; I've never been, but it's on my bucket list, and now you've inspired my curiosity, so thanks for that!
Puglover
(16,380 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)I'm in Mexico and may be heading that way. What are your future plans?
Puglover
(16,380 posts)Packing up house and moving here permanently sometime in the next 12 months. Selling the house up north.
The packing part is quite daunting.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Latin America is but a cyst on the anus of the world.
It's pretty hard to take anything they say seriously after reading those.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)DUmping ground. Only a few I know of who would refer to DU as DUmp. hmmmm......
and writing off a whole segment of the globe because we don't like the leaders in certai countries?
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Stay classy!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and using a person's own words is class.
If a person cannot defend themself against the things they say themselves, perhaps it is time to re-evaluate.
I'm not perfect, I've said stupid things and apologized for them.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)It's a pretty classless move. I guess you like those kind of tactics.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)The Original conversation where he called Latin America a cyst on the Anus of the World.
Yet somehow I baited him into saying such things? Wow. I guess I need to be on the lookout for other things I've done, like preventing California from getting rain due to my omnipotence.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)Where I happen to live. Oh wait "It was against our leaders" None of whom have any reason to distrust the US.
Classy. Right back at you pal.
QC
(26,371 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Xenophobia getting a pass is ridiculous. I would have thought by now this shithole of a sub-thread would have gotten shut down.
Number23
(24,544 posts)about YOU???!!
I wonder if the Zimmerman apologists are held to nearly the same "high" standards around here as you are? Or the MYRIAD posters that deny or derail every thread about white privilege? Or the ones that accuse black posters of not caring about black disenfranchisement because they dared to simply ask if legalizing marijuana was high on the list of the president's priorities? Or the posters that deliberately stalk, bully and harass the handful of black posters that still post here causing many of us to simply leave?
What do you think?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)if someone is racist.
Number23
(24,544 posts)within it. Even if you don't have anything articulate or remotely interesting to actually say.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)What?
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)GG gave pResident George W. Bush the benefit of his doubt (almost to a sickening gushing degree like a preteen would swoon for Justin Bieber), but he began viciously attacking President Obama almost right from the get-go. No such "benefit of the doubt" for Obama! Oh heck no.
Of course his doting fans have absolved him of all his proven rightwingerism just because he blogged about his "epiphany" (one that a TRUE Liberal had LONG before Duhbya was crowned president) four years after his 100% support of the most inept president of American history - but that appears good enough for his doting-defenders on DU.
Apparently, Greenwald-defenders believe that the tiniest splinter in President Obama's eye should always, always be magnified by at least a thousand, while the two-by-four in Greenwald's must always, always be pooh-poohed away.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)I appreciate that.
dsc
(52,166 posts)First, while a court did criticize his conduct in that case, it also didn't refer him to the bar and no bar pulled or suspended his license for that or any other conduct. Second, you know damn well why he moved it was because or bigoted government refused to recognize his marriage so he couldn't move his spouse to this country like he could have had he married a woman.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)from the actual issue being debated. Keep up the good work, brave internet warrior. Attack that character! Distract & conquer!
On edit: Don't forget to call him a "porn spy" and remind us all about Snowden's ex-girlfriend & garage boxes. Like it or not, the OP is crap.
UTUSN
(70,740 posts)He's got the definition down pat: (Oh, and the "I'm a right-wing libertarian" refers to one of the things he says he's been called, so let's not say *I* am calling him that.)
********QUOTE********
http://ggsidedocs.blogspot.com.br/2013/01/frequently-told-lies-ftls.html
[font size=5]Frequently Told Lies (FTLs)[/font]
by Glenn GREENWALD
.... I'm a right-wing libertarian
Ever since I began writing about politics back in 2005, people have tried to apply pretty much every political [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]label[/FONT] to me. Its almost always [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]a shorthand method to discredit someone without having to engage the substance[/FONT] of their arguments. Its the classic [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]ad hominem[/FONT] fallacy: you dont need to listen to or deal with his arguments because hes an X. ....
**********UNQUOTE**********
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)Greenwald's opinions, perspectives and personal history are completely irrelevant to the discussion of NSA spying. Period.
Your cheap attempts at personal smears are sad and inconsequential: you are at best preaching to those who already agree with you.
But hey, carry on still, brave internet warrior. You smear that character all you can. Good luck.
villager
(26,001 posts)They'd make their ol' Uncle Joe proud!
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Take a look on Democratic Underground
They have the gov't paid trolls out, trying to limit the outrage & rebellion on there.
If that is the reaction of hard core Dems to the news stories on the NSA, I want to stoke up some more of it.
Lots of traffic on DU.
It's the most popular Dem internet site, except for Huffy Po - where everything meaningful gets censored.
http://www.dailypaul.com/288556/clapper-and-feinstein-get-caught-lying-big-time#comment-3103138
great white snark
(2,646 posts)And you're to blame LOL.
Sorry I wasn't around to have your back earlier.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)can see it all . You "Randian" Paulite, you!
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)course i wouldn't expect the paul worshipers to know that.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)You know very well why he gets rough on Twitter - because people lie about him and his views.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)they called Latin America a cyst on the Anus of the earth.
Do you think you will get honest discourse from such a person? I wouldn't hold my breath, but I wish you good luck, hissyspit.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)I totally think that secret, unwarranted surveillance is awesome now. Now that I think about it, I recall Lee Greenwood saying something about how great freedom is and HE'S an asshole, so fuck freedom too. I just REALLY hope I never find out that David Duke likes ribs, I need SOME kind of enjoyment in my life.
UTUSN
(70,740 posts)Speaking for myself, the whole deal is not about NSA, it is FOR ME about SNOWDEN-GREENFELD, the methods, the self-promotion, the running. Separate from the revelations or lack thereof, crimes were committed and damage to our self-defense continues to be done. For the benefit of the argument, let's say that the government apparatus is also culpable, so let all sides be held accountable. Once the revelations (is spying among all nations throughout history really a revelation?) were exposed, the continuation of drip-drip more is not adding to anything except publicity for SNOWDEN-GREENWALD.
Repeating, it's about SNOWDEN-GREENWALD ------------- for me. And their advocates have done the ad hominem thing to us here from Day 1.
nt
TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)Thanks for the clarification but none was really needed.
villager
(26,001 posts)Why yes -- it absolutely is.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)We DO care about the information that they provided which seems to be leading to actual change.
When we hear detractors of Snowden and Greenwald talking non-stop about shit that has NOTHING to do with the NSA and the information they got out, it's pretty clear to us that the authoritarians are simply trying to shoot the messenger. If people are attacking Snowden and Greenwald for all this shit that has nothing to do with the NSA and they didn't give a fuck about either of them a year ago, I may not be 100% certain that they're authoritarians, just 99% sure or so.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Without that "drip-drip", we certainly wouldn't be having hearings about any of this. And I'm sure you think the U.S. media is just awesome at its job, but people who have an even basic understanding how "journalism" in this country works know pretty damned well that without this "drip-drip", the story would have been dead in less than a week. But the Snowden haters got to attack that messenger whenever they can.
UTUSN
(70,740 posts)You.re doing what Greenwald accuses others of in post number 7 quote
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Amazing how there are just loads of DUers going after Glenn Greenwald when a year or so ago they couldn't have given two fucks. Also amazing how whistleblowers during the Bush administration were awesome and somehow once Obama became president they became assholes. Funny how those things work.
UTUSN
(70,740 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)And just happens to be attacking him incessantly for many personal issues which have NOTHING to do with the NSA. Funny how with the many millions, perhaps even billions of assholes on this planet, you and the hate crew go after the two people who are actually exposing the crimes of our government. I know it can feel good to lick a boot or two every now and then but our government really doesn't need any more defenders. They're big enough to handle these things on their own.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Damn. I couldn't have offered a better rebuttal myself! Cheers, you likely wore out the soles on your shoes kicking that much ass.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I *shocked*. *Shocked* I tell you.
UTUSN
(70,740 posts)of all the evil in the world AND the universe. That's how I ROLL.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)alarimer
(16,245 posts)What do you actually think about the spying that was only revealed by them? We would not have known about it otherwise. Are you okay with it?
I'm not and I don't really give a shit about who exposed it or how.
You people are "butthurt" because it happened under a Democratic administration. If it had happened under Bush, you would be screaming, just like all the other fucking hypocrites on this thread.
Attack the messenger, fine, I could care less. What our government is doing is criminal. It solves nothing, brings no terrorist to justice, but only makes us less secure in our activities. Fuck the NSA. As far as I'm concerned, you and the others ARE authoritarians and hypocrites.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)I don't think greenwald is a douchebag because his stories are about the NSA.
I think he's a douchebag because he's a smug jerk.
SaveOurDemocracy
(4,400 posts)Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Glenn Greenwald has his own weather system and satellites in orbit around that giant head of his.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)And it's all about him.
solarhydrocan
(551 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Actual whistleblowers have some serious questions for GG & Snowie, like what's the big $$$$ all about? The fact that Greenwald has personal control over the flow of information, and is planning to make a mint off of information that should have been made widely available is worth questioning.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017165892
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Take a look on Democratic Underground
They have the gov't paid trolls out, trying to limit the outrage & rebellion on there.
If that is the reaction of hard core Dems to the news stories on the NSA, I want to stoke up some more of it.
Lots of traffic on DU.
It's the most popular Dem internet site, except for Huffy Po - where everything meaningful gets censored.
http://www.dailypaul.com/288556/clapper-and-feinstein-get-caught-lying-big-time#comment-3103138
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)It's no surprise folks on the Ron Paul forum have an interest in DU.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and Atlas Shrugged.
We are Libertarians if we criticize policy decisions. Have a book burning - that will at least keep people warm.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Sensitive are we? Did you feel the burn?
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)progressoid
(49,999 posts)Dragging out that old canard again?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Uploaded on Aug 8, 2010
Chris Rock: But you see these weird white guys getting overly patriotic, and they have their fucking flag hats on and their flag drawers and their flag pick-ups.
Chris Rock: I'm American man, I'm American, fuck all these fucking foreigners. I'm American, I'm American!
Chris Rock: And you like, hey, calm the fuck down! And their was a lot of accepted racism when the war started. It was accepted. "I'm American man, I'm American. Fuck all these foreigners!" And that was cool. "I'm American man, I'm American. Fuck the French!" That was cool. "I'm American man, I'm American. Fuck all these Arabs!" And that was cool. Then they went to "I'm American man, I'm American. Fuck all these illegal aliens!" Then I started listening. Cause I know niggas and Jews is next. It's like any day now. That train's never late.
Notice how in action, if not words, the same players didn't mind Bush's war, in fact while working for the government in that same defense industry, Snowden called for traitors to be shot.
Protector of humanity that he is claimed to be, he also called for seniors to get out of their beds in the hospitals and get to work, just like any bagger.
And yet after this piece, and GG defending a proven bigot and attacking his victims, we are supposed to think these guys care about us poor little peasants here in the USA?
Greenwald appears to have gone right down the road with these pieces and the revolt against the tryannical Obama! So many links to the Koch brothers, and we are supposed to believe that their philosophy is that different?
That these guys are given so much glory here at DU is really telling about the number of non-Democrats here.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)so he's a cool kid now.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)but you would do well to read your own post, and read what else has gone on in this thread. You are welcome to your opinions, but someone that is bigoted against Latin Americans is probably not the first place to start when you are against racism.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)And every time I make an OP, some people tell me it is a last act of desperation.
Well I'll continue to post about Greenwald for a long time to come.
I guess all my future posts will also be last gasps of desperation.
Stay tuned!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Do the words OCD mean anything to you? It isn't Obama Conspiracy Derangement, despite what you might think.
You can criticize policy without being the devil or wanting to have him impeached. Sometimes, it seems there are few that do NOT know the difference.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)such as his expansion of the drone program and the Bush tax cut extension in 2010. I also criticized his expansion of the war in Afghanistan, the debt ceiling deal in 2011 and his strikes on Libya.
Keep in mind, I'm also free to criticize people like Greenwald which I will continue to do.
It seems many folks just can't handle it when I expose Greenwald.
Too bad for them.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I just don't care for the atmosphere of "if you criticize Obama" you aren't a REAL Democrat air that surrounds these posts.
TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)maybe that will work where all your other personal attacks have failed miserably.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
Quantess
(27,630 posts)Just plain old, repetitive desperation.
I agree with that assessment, and I decided to chime in to this thread just to say so.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)TheMathieu
(456 posts)It's clear they want to be here and appreciate the U.S. more than he does.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Notice how he fawned over Bush:
Greenwald's own words:
During the lead-up to the invasion, I was concerned that the hell-bent focus on invading Iraq was being driven by agendas and strategic objectives that had nothing to do with terrorism or the 9/11 attacks. The overt rationale for the invasion was exceedingly weak, particularly given that it would lead to an open-ended, incalculably costly, and intensely risky preemptive war. Around the same time, it was revealed that an invasion of Iraq and the removal of Saddam Hussein had been high on the agenda of various senior administration officials long before September 11. Despite these doubts, concerns, and grounds for ambivalence, I had not abandoned my trust in the Bush administration. Between the presidents performance in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, the swift removal of the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the fact that I wanted the president to succeed, because my loyalty is to my country and he was the leader of my country, I still gave the administration the benefit of the doubt. I believed then that the president was entitled to have his national security judgment deferred to, and to the extent that I was able to develop a definitive view, I accepted his judgment that American security really would be enhanced by the invasion of this sovereign country.
http://extremeliberal.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/glenn-greenwald-supported-president-bush-as-he-signed-the-patriot-act/
TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)How sad and obsessed are you?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)OP touch a nerve?
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)IDK what all the vitriol about her was, but I didn't care for her public statements. She's a hawk, right?
Fits in with his friend going to work for the government under Bush as a contractor. As long as the bucks are coming in, there are no moral qualms.
The problem isn't the gung ho attitude, it's the hypocrisy and the avarice. Neo-cons okay for a while, but then when the payday is gone, it's whinearoni.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)My, how observant you are.
Can we put you down as OPPOSING Hillary because she agrees with Greenwald on the threat of Muslim Radicalism in the Middle east?
Can we put you down as OPPOSING Hillary because she agrees with Greenwald on "Illegal Immigration"?
Is Hillary a racist too,..... because she sure agrees with Greenwald a lot???
MO_Moderate
(377 posts)but it seems like, at least in this post, that he is talking about illegal immigration, not immigration or immigrants.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)(the part they quoted in the headline)
Removing the word illegal changes the context greatly. But, they knew that, I'm sure. It wasn't by accident.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Opposing "Illegal Immigration" does not make one a racist
unless you are willing to attack the entire leadership of the Democratic Party
and call them racists too.
I also oppose "Illegal" immigration for many of the same reasons Greenwald opposes Illegal Immigration,
and a few of my own.
I DO support Liberal Immigration Policy and an EZ path to citizenship.
Calling BULLSHIT on your OP.
Sirveri
(4,517 posts)I find it hilarious that people would fault GG for opposing something that he thought was causing harm. Heck CC probably was even partially opposed to legal immigration if it brought more workers into the farm fields he was trying to unionize.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)<snip>
The GOP fights itself on Illegal Immigration
GG note: This post was written in 2005, one month after I began blogging. It was recently dug up by some Obama cultists trying to discredit my criticisms of the President (to understand what I mean by "Obama cultists," see this 2006 post I wrote about Bush cultists: exactly the same mentality). http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/02/do-bush-followers-have-political.html As my subsequent writing reflects over the next many years, this post does not remotely reflect my views on immigration. My response to someone who recently asked about it is here:
That's why Obama cultists have to dig back 6 years into my archives to try to find things to discredit me.
<snip>
Link: http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2005/11/gop-fights-itself-on-illegal.html
Why is that ???
Aerows
(39,961 posts)had enough of the kool-aid. Now sit back, WillyT, and we will fix you *RIGHT UP*.
Diagnosis: Extreme concern with determining the veracity of leaders. Could be terminal, but will monitor for signs of recurring awareness.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)If getting farmers from South America to move up here who can't compete with our subsidized underpriced exports to there is a good thing, then campaigning against farm subsidies must be a racist thing to do...
Therefore Glen Greenwald must be a racist!
Isn't logic like this a wonderful tool sometimes?!
Vattel
(9,289 posts)even if they do so out of economic necessity. I agree with you that Greenwald's FORMER position on this was horrifically stupid and bigoted. He has since improved his thinking on immigration. I would add that some of Obama's views are both unjust and heartless.
SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)GG note: This post was written in 2005, one month after I began blogging. It was recently dug up by some Obama cultists trying to discredit my criticisms of the President (to understand what I mean by "Obama cultists," see this 2006 post I wrote about Bush cultists: exactly the same mentality). As my subsequent writing reflects over the next many years, this post does not remotely reflect my views on immigration. My response to someone who recently asked about it is here:
That was a 6 yrs ago: 3 weeks after I began blogging, when I had zero readers. I've discussed many times before how there were many uninformed things I believed back then, before I focused on politics full-time - due to uncritically ingesting conventional wisdom, propaganda, etc. I've written many times since then about how immigrants are exploited by the Right for fear-mongering purposes. I'm 100% in favor of amnesty, think defeat of the DREAM Act was an act of evil, etc. That said, I do think illegal immigration is a serious problem: having millions of people live without legal rights; having a legal scheme that is so pervasively disregarded breeds contempt for the rule of law; virtually every country - not just the U.S. insists on border control because having a manageable immigration process is vital on multiple levels. But that post is something I wrote literally a few weeks after I began blogging when nobody was reading my blog; it was anything but thoughtful, contemplative, and informed, and - like so many things I thought were true then - has nothing to do with what I believe now.
That's why Obama cultists have to dig back 6 years into my archives to try to find things to discredit me.
Yeah what an asshole.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)He was only blogging for a month and didn't have that many readers.
But he's really not a bigot....trust him.....
SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)He was against gay marriage all his life.
Or is this part of you making me squirm, with all your facts
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)ODS can be a very powerful force indeed!
SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)it's a valid point and he is someone you don't run around calling a homophobe so I'm trying to see what the difference is here.. Can you explain it or are childish insults all you do?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)If you want to create a post about Obama's comments go for it!
I'm not stopping you!
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Was that the intent or is it just a happy byproduct of your arguments?
I'm just wondering why you are so insistent on calling a man I assume you helped to get elected a homophobe. The only conclusion that I can come to is that you support homophobes and homophobia as well considering you tried so hard to get a homophobe elected.
Funny how you talk about deflection without noticing a hint of irony. As if the mental midgets going after Snowden and Greenwald have anything but distractions to offer. If they had to stick to salient issues, they'd be fucked.
Marr
(20,317 posts)...it's obvious. You'd probably be better off just ignoring the people who expose your bullshit.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)and when not mounting the stage with 'ex gays' or hate preachers, he'd casually claim that God instructs him to oppose the basic rights of others, 'God is my trail mix' he'd say and 'Marriage is a Sacrament'.
He claims to have 'evolved' but according to you that should be considered impossible. Would you like to see some videos of Barack 'splaining his opposition to equality? There are some real peaches out there.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)Because that seems to be what you're saying.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)How is it that we worked so hard not just once, but twice, to elect a bigot? My world no longer makes sense to me.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I read this on DU.
Obama In 2004: "I Don't Think Marriage Is A Civil Right"
Whisp
(24,096 posts)and then there is change that makes us all better people.
Obama is a good man that has been marinated in all the same falsehoods most of us were when we were growing up. I am glad he was able to change his mind and realize that he was wrong and heartfully admit it and do something about it for his own self and for the betterment of many.
GG is a sputtering hateful little troll that feeds on negativity and rage. Obama is a man willing to change for the betterment of himself and send that positive message to the world.
No contest.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Yeah, Obama is afforded every possible excuse and courtesy. Not only for his previous views which would have been considered bigoted by anyone on the left if they were held by a republican, and for views held currently which are still quite far from liberal. Yet if the villain du jour exhibits any views that Obama has held in the past or even currently holds, they're slammed mercilessly. Hell, they're slammed non-stop even for personal shit. It is rather hilarious to see the Snowden/Greenwald haters get themselves into a tizzy and then congratulate Obama on his latest Wall St. giveaway or slap on the wrist. I've seen DU become an incredibly hypocritical place these past 5 years or so.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)and that he's recanted the bulk of what the OP has misrepresented to begin with. But then again, truthfulness is not what the OP was after. Truthiness is more like it. It's close enough to truth for the OP.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Who cares about the man. Let's discuss the actual issue here: NSA spying.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)That's all I got.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Now that I know that Greenwald blogged something stupid in 2005, I can now ignore everything bad that the NSA does!
Whew! For a while there I was concerned about widespread unconstitutional surveillance of American citizens in the absence of any suspicion of crime. Good thing one stupid blog post from 8 years ago erases all of that!
840high
(17,196 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)On the other hand these OPs are canary in a coal mine alerts that another damaging revelation is in the new cycle.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Cha
(297,655 posts)"..And Glenn Greenwald called them 'odious and repugnant' for suing his client--" GG's projecting A-gain.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002101211
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Loved that judge's words about the 'illegality' of GG's work.
Then he attacked the shooting victims' character. OMG, is that a 'smear'?
But then, they weren't like him, since there was one black and two Jewish kids who were the victims of racial hatred, huh?
And those illegal humans. Bet he supports Paul Ryan's repeal of the 14th Amendment to stop those 'anchor babies.'
Glad the natives didn't stop my ancestors from having 'anchor babies' here. Some peeps don't get the point, do they?
How predictably GOP, Bircher, Libertarian and Rand Paul of him to call people 'illegal,' a greater problem than his own and his friends' illegal actions.
Cha
(297,655 posts)Amendment business. rofl
GG.. "so many Suckers.. so little time."
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)It is delightful to see our Boggers twisting into pretzels to support
"Illegal Immigration".
I don't know of a single Democrat that supports "Illegal Immigration",
including the Centrist Heroes, President Obama and the inevitable Hillary,
both of who OPPOSE Illegal Immigration,
just like Glenn Greenwald!
Teh Stupid....It hurtz!
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)Really nice.
Thanks.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)great white snark
(2,646 posts)Remember: Libertarians hate Democrats more than Republicans.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)What the fuck horseshit are you talking about?
Jesus Christ...
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)of the South Park Republican:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Park_Republican
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)This thread is simply another reason that supports my opinion
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)So I guess she's a bigot?
And you're going to spend just as much effort smearing her as you do Greenwald right?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)to support the Democratic nominee.
And I'm sure your refusal to support her is because she's a bigot too like Greenwald right? Cause clearly that's the MOST important thing that either of them have ever done!
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)and won't be supporting her.
Your vociferous attacks labeling Greenwald a "bigot" for the same exact position as Hillary would presumably earn her the same vitriol.
Go for it.
I'd love to be on that jury.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)122. Then good bye to you on DU when she gets the nomination since its SOP here to support the Democratic nominee.
HA!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)And that's not in an SOP, it's in the TOS. A leap forward in time to tell us the nominee in 2 years or wishful thinking?
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Damn, GG being a racist jerk means the NSA is super cool!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)That means it is okay.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)Between the two of those things, there is only one position a reasonable person can hold.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)Blanket surveillance pales into insignificance in light of that.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)flamingdem
(39,321 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I can smell the Rand Paul on them!
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)That's not necessarily true.
Illegal immigration IS damaging. Don't you agree?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)1) If his statement isn't bigoted, why did he feel the need to retract it?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4461001
2) Many of the arguments he used, such as mentioning society and culture, are xenophobic arguments he seems to be parroting from right wingers. It's more proof that Greenwald is a right winger.
3) I don't have a problem with people that want to come here to better their lives. I don't mind if they are "illegal". America should welcome people who come here to work their ass off for a better life.
You live in Japan and America is totally different. Japan is a very xenophobic nation and they don't believe in immigration. Their culture has rubbed off on you apparently. You can't even become a Japanese citizen if you don't have Japanese blood, right?
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)It is not that hard to immigrate to Japan and gain Japanese citizenship.
You just don't know what you are talking about.
You are literally ignorant of the facts.
Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #164)
Hissyspit This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Dishonest arguing.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Why leave "illegal" out of the title?
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)Smear accomplished!
marmar
(77,090 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)and tweeting.
And anyone who refuses to see it, or even attempts to defend it, are cut from the same cloth.
Kick and recommended, Cali_Democrat.
TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)also subjected to an ad hominem attack? Now THAT'S logic!
Thanks for leading the way to a new era of intelligent debate and analysis.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)that anyone can have an "intelligent debate" let alone sober "analysis" with a doting GG defender who refuses, absolutely refuses, to do a sober analysis of his history regarding the Black community - as you've just proven. Sorry, but those be the facts whether you like it or not.
TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)Step One: engage in ad hominem attacks against the messenger.
Step Two: when people claim you are making hominem attacks against the messenger, make ad hominem attacks against THEM by accusing them of belonging to a "cult" that worships the messenger. If you can, be sure to make hints like "you must have something to hide" in order to smear them further.
Step Three: whatever you do, never allow the focus to switch from the ad hominem attack to the real issue of intrusive, extra-judicial surveillance of a free peoples. Be sure to use words like "bigot" as much as possible in order to poison the water and prevent any real discussion of the erosion of civil liberties in the US.
Step Four: never allow any comprehension that you are a tool to creep into your mind.
Step Five: repeat as necessary.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)I knew that from the day the Verizon warrant hit the wires but I also listened to Greenwald and Snowball on Democracy Now and watched a few of their appearances posted online and they had NOTHING except a load of innuendo and "ad hominems" aimed at the Obama admin.
And when you get down to it, that's what NSAgate is all about, and that's all it's about, at least the media part. The docs Snowden suppled to China and who knows who else are another matter. Why that isn't obvious to everyone here is perplexing question.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)the fastest growing demographic isn't going anywhere.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)The Tea Party agrees with Glenn Greenwald, along with the entire Democratic Party
including Hillary and President Obama, along with the entire Republican Party.
I can't think of ANYBODY that supports "ILLEGAL Immigration" except you, Cali-Democrat
and a handful of others from The BOG.
Everybody else in the entire country MUST be RACISTS too.
So what is this " fastest growing demographic" that supports Illegal Immigration that you speak of?
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Saying undocumented workers are "wreaking havoc on our culture" is about one step away from stormfront.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)I'm really curious how it work.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)i know i am old but i get completely lost in posts like this....
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)If you redistribute the talking points, you can make loads of cash.
Talking points are distributed at 11am Eastern... Monday thru Friday.
Let me know....
ecstatic
(32,731 posts)Is GG a libertarian republican with bigoted tendencies? Yes.
Is Edward Snowden a libertarian republican with an agenda, and is he slightly delusional with a huge ego? Yes.
Does the NSA need to be monitored more closely and the patriot act repealed? Yes!
But, is the NSA my top issue? No.
It must be nice to have metadata as a top issue. I live in the real world, however. My top issues are education, equality, healthcare reform, and gun control.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Kudos to Cali_Democrat and friends in The BOG for having the courage of their convictions and to Come Out
is support of "Illegal Immigration".
I will join you in your courageous stand.
It matters NOT that the entire Democratic Party including President Obama and Hillary agree with Greenwald,
they must ALL be [font size=3]RACISTS[/font] too.
It takes a lot of courage to STAND on principle against the entire Democratic Party!
Kudos for your bravery and insight.
There aren't too many besides Cali_Democrat and me who have the guts to support such an unpopular position
as supporting Illegal Immigration, but the logic is unassailable.
Greenwald opposes "Illegal Immigration",
therefore WE support IT, and NOBODY is going to change our minds with logic, history, facts, and other such bullshit!
Case CLOSED!
It is time to tell the truth!
except for YOU and ME, Cali_Democrat![/font]
The courage, insight, and brilliance demonstrated by Cali_Democrat in this OP and his stalwart commitment to defending his PRO - Illegal Immigration position is worthy of 1000 Recs, and should be pinned to the Top of the Greatest Page as an example of we believe DU should stand for,
and SHAME on all the Racists who support Legal Immigration!
(Bunch of damned RACISTS!!!)
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)This thread really got to you, huh?
Oh...you never replied to me here....
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4348781
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Didn't you read my post?
I'm joining YOU, Tarhell Dem, Cha and a few select other members of The BOG in SUPPORTING Illegal Immigration.
You have convinced me that the entire Democratic Party, including President Obama and Hillary
are RACISTS because they agree 100% with Greenwald in their opposition to Illegal Immigration!!!!
I had an epiphany catalyzed by your brilliant analysis of the situation,
and your courageous performance in this thread supporting Illegal Immigration.
I WANT to keep this thread kicked to the TOP of DU so EVERYONE can read it.
It so perfectly depicts one man's courageous stand against ALL the Racists who oppose Illegal Immigration.
I want to help EVERYONE know you for who and what you are!
1000 Recs for this brilliant OP,
and the courage it took to OPPOSE the entire Democratic Party and 99.9% of America!
WAY to Stand on YOUR Principles and Values!
You Da MAN!!!
High Five, Bro!!!
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)You're such a joke.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Wishful thinking.
elleng
(131,103 posts)'The parade of evils caused by illegal immigration is widely known, and it gets worse every day. In short, illegal immigration wreaks havoc economically, socially, and culturally; makes a mockery of the rule of law; and is disgraceful just on basic fairness grounds alone. Few people dispute this, and yet nothing is done.'
Cha
(297,655 posts)for almost everyone but again he's full of shit.
elleng
(131,103 posts)and sure won't in the future.
Cha
(297,655 posts)Cha
(297,655 posts)says it's only to deflect from NSA. Must protect assholes at all costs.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)I know I'll get an explanation eventually on how Greenwald being an asshole renders the leaks about the NSA irrelevant.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Cha
(297,655 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Cha
(297,655 posts)eShirl
(18,503 posts)seriously? he's not running for public office, what is the point?
Cha
(297,655 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)Yeah I can see where it's easy to miss that word. It's almost fucking invisible in your post.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)hey did you know the NSA is spying on your every electronic communication? Phone calls, emails, texts, etc.