Dylan Farrow was abused - of that there is no doubt.

[jazzimov]

But, who was her abuser - Woody or Mia?

If Mia planted those memories, she is just as guilty as she claims Woody is.

If Mia planted those memories, she is just as guilty because Dylan grew up believing it was true.

If Woody is guilty, then it is unlikely that his actions were restricted to Dylan. More will come forward shortly to accuse him. The data claims that he was exonerated. Granted, the "powers that be" were aligned towards Men so that it is possible that he was lying and that the investigators gave him the benefit of the doubt in order to exonerate him.

However, it is just as likely that Mia "coached" her daughter to remember something that wasn't true in order to gain advantage.

I have been through a divorce - I know what a woman is capable of in order to gain advantage.

Regardless, I hold Dylan blameless. She obviously believes this happened to her 7-year-old self - whether it actually happened or it was a memory implanted by her mother.

Dylan is a victim - of her mother or of her father.

We may never know which.

[Gravitycollapse]

1. "I know what a woman is capable of in order to gain advantage" - Swing and a miss.

I was following your argument until you said that.

[jazzimov]

3. Have you been through a divorce? nt

[pkdu]

5. As a father who had the " they aren't comfortable being alone with you" shit thrown in my face....

....A-fuckin-men.

Many " mothers " have not the slightest interest in what's best for kids. Only a burning desire to " punish" their ex. Even if it means using the children.

[Dorian Gray]

26. Seriously?

You're a prince.

Why do you believe she felt the need to punish you?

[pkdu]

32. Hell hath no fury.....

[Warpy]

7. I have and I left him in much better financial shape than I was in

but I wanted OUT the quicker the better. At that he tried to scream he was being raped, the term most divorced men use when they discover the wife owns at least some part of what they accumulated together, until his lawyer told him to shut the fuck up, I was giving him a better deal than he'd ever seen.

There are a lot of women out there who just want OUT.

And men still complain bitterly even if all they took were the clothes on their backs.

[Gravitycollapse]

8. I have been the child in the middle of a horrific separation and custody battle.

Where both parents pitted myself and my brothers and sisters against one another. Where it became the principle objective of my mother and father to emotionally and financially ruin the reputation of the other. It was a disgusting, incredibly traumatizing point in my life and I can say with complete confidence that I am permanently damaged because my parents acted like despicable human beings.

[Dorian Gray]

27. Oh Gravity,

I'm so sorry you and your siblings went through that. It's totally despicable and adults should know better than to put their children in the middle like that.

Though there is some fallout from any divorce, I wish the adults in your life had looked out for you and your siblings.

[Dorian Gray]

25. I have

and I'm a female. I certainly didn't mistreat my ex, and though he ranted about me to everyone at the beginning of the process, we ended up getting our shit together and being fair in the arbitration and the dividing up of assets.

I understood his need to vent, and rather than ranking up the problems, I ignored the bullshit he spewed and understood it for what it was (anger at the breakup) and moved on.

I've seen other divorces spiral out of control. Usually because one of the individuals in the divorce is unbendable and hell bent on getting what he or she wants.

[Spider Jerusalem]

28. A divorce/separation/custody battle...

where the proximate cause of the breakup is your sexual relationship with your partner's nineteen-year-old stepdaughter, who is young enough to be your granddaughter? I don't really see where trumped-up allegations of molestation would be necessary in that situation to show unfitness for custody. I'd be kind of shocked at any judge who'd decide that a man in such a situation would be a fit custodial parent.

[kcr]

4. Big miss

Everyone knows how evil women are

[jazzimov]

6. Women can be just as evil as Men.

Men can be evil. But that's no reason to jump to conclusions.

That's all I'm saying, don't jump to conclusions.

[kcr]

10. Women are human beings. Who knew?

I think saying things like one knows what women are capable of sounds a heck of a lot different then saying they're the same as men (who knew!).

[jazzimov]

14. Good point!

I stand corrected.

[WinkyDink]

22. There is no conclusion to "jump to." There was no trial because Dylan was deemed too fragile.

[cpwm17]

20. A while back I heard a shocking statistic on the percentage of men

that are accused by their spouse during a divorce of abusing their kids. It was something close to 40%. Lawyers warn men that they may be accused of abuse.

I worked with someone that would often exclaim, apropos of nothing: 'they (lawyer or wife) accused me of abusing our kids and we didn't even have any kids.'

[Dorian Gray]

24. That's where he lost me too

Seriously? What about the evils men are capable of? Or all human beings are? Singling out women as being culpable of evil in divorces? Please.

[Upward]

2. Either Way, I Believe Mia and Ronan Are Exploiting Her Now

I think they went to Vanity Fair for the October article when it was known Mia's brother was going to be sentenced in late October, for the long term sexual abuse of those two boys. His plea was when? July?

(Just like Angelina going to adopt 3rd world orphans (OMG! What a saint!) just as Brad & Jennifer were splitting. )

And I think Dylan is now being exploited again, for ratings for Ronan's upcoming TV show.

She has my sympathy, to be surrounded by such people.

[jazzimov]

9. Welcome to DU!

And that is the point I'm trying to make. Dylan was abused. Deciding who is guilty of that abuse is a little more difficult to ascertain.

But Dylan was abused.

[Upward]

12. Thanks

Yeah, it's nuts.

I feel sorry for her but she needs to take it to court and she definitely needs to face Woody.

I think what's saddest of all is that, while she grew up in a home where, after the abuse, she got (you'd think) tons of emotional support, BELIEVED, and therapy.

and yet, there she is with a chip as big as any of us had when we were finally able to speak out, after having no one at all to discuss it with for decades. You look at the openness of how it is today and wish you could have gotten that support when you were a kid. And yet, in her case, it doesn't seem to have made any difference. And maybe that's also a part of why I question the veracity of the accusations.

[JI7]

13. Angelina Jolie had the first kid Maddox for 3 years before she got involved with Brad Pitt

[Inspired]

30. Do you really think this is all for ratings?

Wow.

[LibDemAlways]

11. The abuse allegations weren't made until after

Mia discovered Woody's relationship with Soon-Yi, probably in one of the worst ways imaginable --finding explicit photos of her daughter in his apartment. I think the timeline is important here and that, given the circumstances, it's possible the allegation was an act of retribution. Clearly, however, you are right. Dylan was victimized by somebody and we may never know the truth.

[jazzimov]

15. I agree, and I was very anti-Woody until

I found out that his "relationship" with Soon-Yi began after she was of age.
Frankly, the whole thing does creep me out a little.

But I wasn't there.

Frankly, after meeting several of my "heroes" I've found that it's better to separate their Art from the person.

But that's just my "perspective".....

Some will agree from personal experience - many will disagree who have no experience or real - life... well... experience!

And if that sounds like I'm being arrogant based on my experience - I am!

[justiceischeap]

29. The thing that bothers me about Soon-Yi

is that he claims he hardly spent any time at Mia's house... so how did he get to know Soon-Yi? And I'm telling you this right now, he didn't just "notice" her when she was 19. This is a kid he's been around all her life and then suddenly, when she's 19 he's like, "she's the woman of my dreams?" I think not. Forget the fact that she could be considered a step-daughter (even though he claims he never spent any time around her or Mia's other kids) that still begs the question, just how did they get romantically involved?

[kskiska]

33. Mia suggested he spend more time with Soon-Yi

and he began taking her to Knicks games. Previously, he never paid much attention to her. I believe that was in Mia's book.

[WinkyDink]

23. I guess you've never heard of the straw and the camel's back.

[treestar]

16. I don't see the memory planting as "just as likely"

due to the trouble it would take to do it all, coupled with the statistics on the reality of abuse.

Balancing here is the factor that he got himself involved with his much younger stepdaughter. Sort of adds fuel to the fire. How did that happen if he wasn't someone who looked at young girls sexually?

[El_Johns]

18. There's a big difference between 7 and 19. An ocean, in fact.

And it doesn't take much work to implant false beliefs in children.

[BainsBane]

17. It is not "just as likely" that Mia coached her

Last edited Tue Feb 4, 2014, 04:58 AM - Edit history (1)

That is complete bullshit and doesn't fit the events of the case. Dylan FIRST told the babysitter, who then told Mia. Mia then contacted her lawyer. Even without knowing those facts, false accusations are exceedingly rare. It is a blatant distortion to claim there is an equal possibility that the abuse didn't happen. Child sexual assault is exceedingly common, while false accusations and false memories are rare.

You know what a "woman is capable of"? You seriously expect us to take that as something other than an expression of your own animosity? Men are also capable of rape, and women and men alike are capable of child sexual abuse. Your post is the most appalling distortion of the case. Your divorce is irrelevant, And I have no reason to believe that whatever your wife said wasn't entirely true and justified. Your distortion of the likelihood that Mia has a false memory and condemnation of all women tells me you have no credibility on this subject matter.

[El_Johns]

19. On Saturday night, shortly after the letter's release, Lena Dunham, in the

midst of on her own massive media rollout for the third season of
HBO's Girls, began tweeting her support for Dylan Farrow – who, one might assume, she knows only on the basis of this letter, moved by its striking language and detailed memories, rather than any outside facts. (Dunham, a child at the time of the scandal, was joined in something of a Twitter-wide celebration among other young women of the unknown but suddenly famous Dylan.) Or perhaps, she knows of Dylan directly from Mia, who added a Girl's promo to her Golden Globe tweet – "Time to grab some icecream & switch over to #GIRLS" – when Allen's award came up.

If you tweet for me; I'll tweet for you.

It is a story of interlocking media deals and cultivated media cronies. Everybody is at work here. Everybody is someone else's instrument. Everybody is promoting something. Two decades have passed but the Allen-Farrow betrayal, break-up, and molestation charges are somehow, all of a sudden, as vivid as yesterday.

Here's a certainty: When you play out your personal dramas, hurt and self-interest in the media, it's a confection. You say what you have to say in the way you have to say it to give it media currency – and that's always far from the truth. Often, in fact, someone else says it for you. It's all planned. It's all rehearsed. This is craft. This is strategy. This is manipulation. This is spin.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/03/woody-allen-dylan-farrow-abuse-allegations

[WinkyDink]

21. You ignore that Dylan was seen at the time by psychologists.

[Vattel]

31. Seems like a false dichotomy.

Mia Farrow might have mistakenly believed that there was abuse. (Having just discovered Woody's affair with her daughter, she might have been very inclined to believe the worst.) She might then have innocently asked Dylan enough leading questions that she inadvertently planted false memories in Dylan. There are many possible shades of grey here in addition to your black and white scenarios.

[kskiska]

34. It's awfully strange

that if Woody is a pedophile, he seems to have no history of a lifelong interest in small children. One doesn't suddenly become a pedophile in midlife. He didn't seem to have any interest in children at all prior to Mia.

[CrawlingChaos]

35. Actually, he does have quite a history of being skeevy about young girls

New York Magazine dug up some disturbing stuff:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/02/woody-allen-and-young-girls-a-history.html

Woody Allen, from an old interview with People Magazine:

He goes on: "I'm open-minded about sex. I'm not above reproach; if anything, I'm below reproach. I mean, if I was caught in a love nest with 15 12-year-old girls tomorrow, people would think, yeah, I always knew that about him." Allen pauses. "Nothing I could come up with would surprise anyone," he ventures helplessly. "I admit to it all."

And it's a persistent theme in his work, as discussed here:

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/culture/dylan-farrow-woody-allen-movies?src=soc_twtr