IF the oil that would flow through the Keystone pipeline is for US consumption...

[liberal N proud]

Why are they piping it to the gulf of Mexico?


Build a fucking refinery in North Dakota.

[GodlessBiker]

1. I thought that every drop of oil pumped goes on the ...

world market, where anyone can buy it.

You can build a refinery in ND, but you still have to compete against China and others to first buy oil to be refined.

Or something like that.

[liberal N proud]

2. Build the refinery in ND and it is more difficult to sell overseas

Piping it to the gulf is so it can be sold on the world market.

The oil industry is lobbying the public with the propaganda that the oil is for US consumption.

If they were truly trying to provide a supply for the US consumer, then build the refinery close to the source.

Just stop lying to us.

[excuse not to write]

6. Bingo!

[indepat]

14. The lying to us will never

stop.

[pkdu]

3. Exact-a-fucking-mundo

It is NOT for US consumption , its for Houston refineries then tankers out of the Gulf.

[grantcart]

4. I am guessing that it isn't the actual refining that is the problem but the entire

infrastructure related to reshipment after refinement.

That would include using domestic pipelines and tankers taking refined petroleum gasoline to other ports by tanker.

If it was refined in ND how would it get to the mid west and the east coast? by truck ? by rail?

I am guessing that it is much much less expensive to transport the gas by tanker to NY from Texas by tanker than it is to have thousands of truck loads go by either surface or railroad.

[liberal N proud]

5. How does it get to the US consumer from Texas?

Answer, it won't because it is not for US consumption.

[ellenfl]

13. it doesn't get distributed by truck or rail to the midwest now?

shipping it from nd or tx to landlocked states is all the same. btw, i understand that the tar sands in question would become diesel. do you use diesel fuel in your transportation? the ONLY reason for the pipeline is to get the oil to the global market.

ellen fl

[Lochloosa]

7. A few facts...

Key Facts on Keystone XL


Energy Security: Tar Sand will not Reduce Dependence on Foreign Oil

Keystone XL will not lessen U.S. dependence on foreign oil, but transport Canadian oil to American refineries for export to overseas markets.
•Keystone XL is an export pipeline. According to presentations to investors, Gulf Coast refiners plan to refine the cheap Canadian crude supplied by the pipeline into diesel and other products for export to Europe and Latin America. Proceeds from these exports are earned tax-free. Much of the fuel refined from the pipeline’s heavy crude oil will never reach U.S. drivers’ tanks.
•Reducing demand for oil is the best way to improve our energy security. U.S. demand for oil has been declining since 2007. New fuel-efficiency standards mean that this trend will continue once the economy gets back on track. In fact, the Energy Deptartment report on KeystoneXL found that decreasing demand through fuel efficiency is the only way to reduce mid-east oil imports with or without the pipeline.

More info:

http://www.tarsandsaction.org/spread-the-word/key-facts-keystone-xl/

[grantcart]

8. Currently the US imports 9 million barrels of crude a day and exports

900,000 barrels of processed gasoline and petroleum products a day.


Question

1) do you believe that the crude and petroleum markets are indeed 'fungible' ?

2) where do you believe that the majority of refined products is going?

[liberal N proud]

10. See post 7

[grantcart]

11. lol so I take it that you don't believe that oil is a fungible commodity and

have absolutely no idea where our refined petroleum products go.

[liberal N proud]

12. It isn't about fungability, it is about the lies Americans are told

They are told that if we build the pipeline, the oil will be used in the US.

It won't. The link at post 7 covers that.


Fungability is purely a notion conconted to allow one nations natural resources to be sold under the notion that by not having it to use here we will all convert to less energy consuming systems. Alternative energy systems are years from being feasable.

In the meantime, we are giving away the resources.

The notion that this pipeline will solve all our ills related to energy is a farce.

[kenny blankenship]

9. There isn't enough oil floating in the Gulf of Mexico yet?

I thought we'd fixed that.

[slater71]

15. Why are they not screaming this day and night on tv?

This is what they will do with the Keystone oil.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/05/news/economy/gasoline_export/index.htm

[liberal N proud]

17. My point exactly.

[bhikkhu]

16. Its still $100 per barrel oil - the tar sands project is one of the most expensive there is

So whatever quantity or wherever it goes, it does nothing much to bring the price of oil down. What it would do is direct more of the vast global oil revenue and jobs to North America, but in the long term even that is only really beneficial if the resources created are used to transition away from fossil fuels.

[Odin2005]

18. BINGO, you get a cookie!

[eallen]

19. Oil and its refinery products are fungible commodities, traded on global markets.

You won't get a politician to admit it, but it matters less where your oil or gasoline originate, than where your shoes or cellphone were made.

Generally speaking, the oil companies prefer to expand existing refinery capacity to building new refineries. Existing sites have the pipelines, harbors, rail, infrastructure, and workforce in place. That said, a new refinery <i>is</i> being built in South (not North) Dakota.

And the only difference it makes whether it gets its crude from Canada, our Gulf, their Gulf, or elsewhere is how tankers are routed and pipelines are used. Logistics, nothing else.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

20. Because that part of the project is already completed

Keystone XL is the second phase of an existing project, the segment of the Keystone project that delivers oil to refineries in the upper midwest is already in operation. Why the poutragers have only latched on to this project now is a mystery to me.

[Devil_Fish]

21. It's not and never was for US or Canada for that matter.

it's for the Oil Barrons.

[liberal N proud]

22. But advertising leads people to believe it will be.

[krispos42]

23. Implement a $5/gallon gasoline/diesel export tax.

Problem solved.

[Devil_Fish]

24. Best idea ever.