Tar sands....needs no words.

[Skidmore]

[Egalitariat]

1. Cute.

[Skidmore]

2. How so?

I don't think so.

[Egalitariat]

15. See post #5. The pic in the OP is a fabrication. Nobody who thinks critically will buy it.

But from a hyperbole standpoint, it's cute. That's how so.

[Skidmore]

16. I'd still prefer our lands to look like the first picture and not the second.

The effects are the same regardless of setting. That second picture to me is not hyperbolic but real landscape.

[Egalitariat]

18. There is a more effective, and honest, way to make that argument than what is portrayed in that

picture. When the truth is as bad as it is, why would you fabricate something to make a point?

[Cleita]

22. I've seen other photos and film footage of the tar sands and even

if that particular picture is a fabrication, the reality is that the tar sands really do look like that. There are several excellent documentaries on line that you can look at before passing judgement. Here is one of them:

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/2011/06/20116227153978324.html

[MineralMan]

28. Indeed, but the propaganda is using false arguments.

Tar sand development is ugly as hell, and destructive of the environment. That's pretty easy to demonstrate. When activist groups, however, use patently false illustrations or arguments, though, it's equally easy for others to dismiss their positions.

Why not argue honestly? I've never understood that, to tell you the truth. That pair of photos is patently dishonest, and fails.

[Canuckistanian]

32. The pic is not an exaggeration

There are many before/after pics that are similar.

They pretty much tear up vast swathes of untouched forests to get at the oil sands. It's all near the surface.

[laundry_queen]

33. I'd say it was a BIT disingenuous. A tiny bit.

Yes, up north there are a lot of 'scrub' pine forests. There are even some nice flowers, and birch/poplar are beautiful there in the fall. I just don't like the indirect comparison of a photo that is obviously in western Alberta near the rockies, and the tar sands pictures (which is located near Ft. Mac in the northeastern section).

So while it may not be an exaggeration that pine forests get torn down and destroyed, the before picture is not a 'real' before picture. It's in a different part of the province. If it's not the same piece of land, it's an inaccurate photo. If we are to get our message out, we must make sure we are accurately showing reality. Everyone I know who lives here would pick out this inconsistency in a heartbeat and thus disregard this as 'propaganda'.

[Canuckistanian]

36. I agree absolutely

"Getting the message out, but the details wrong" is what conservatives do. Anyone who calls themselves progressive/liberal should be better than that.

This whole Daisey/This American Life thing is about the same thing.

My point was that the pictures weren't an exaggeration of what's really happening. And yes, it was wrong to use them incorrectly.

[laruemtt]

3. this is what i call evil. n/t

[BlancheSplanchnik]

4. yes....it's like the ugliest scenes

out of Matrix or Hellraiser.






It's OVERPOPULATION, people!!!! Get a fucking clue, and quit fucking without protection. It's selfish in the most critical way to insist on breeding more and more replicas of yourselves. Human overpopulation is at the root of environmental degradation, resource depletion, and hosts of other crises the planet faces.

Legislating insurer paid contraception for women is one of the best things I've seen done that will help people in the US immediately, and also begin to halt the continuous flood of new humans (here in the country that uses more resources than any other).

[loudsue]

37. I so totally agree, Blanche. Overpopulation is tearing our world apart.

And something nasty that I've noticed:

It's starting to look like humans are the same as what we see in the marketplace: when there is an over-surplus of something, it loses its value. It's as if there are so many people, each one loses its value to the whole.

I'm not saying that's right, I'm just saying that appears to be the case.

[MineralMan]

5. That would be a lot more effective if

the two photos were of the same place. Really.

[Ezlivin]

12. Yes, something that is like this edited photo

[MineralMan]

17. Ah, Photoshop.

Reality is what you make it, I guess.

[Ezlivin]

20. Uh, Pixelmator

Unfortunately, as you noted, reality will be edited in accordance with our Masters' wishes.

I'm old enough to remember when the Soviet's propensity to airbrush fallen Communists from pictures was met with derision in this country. Now "photoshopping" is not even an epithet.

Ironically, my mother's entire family live in Alberta and they are completely oblivious to the environmental consequences. Some of them are eager for the money to start flowing and damn the consequences. A formerly beautiful province will be laid waste by the oil oligarchy and then they'll move on....

[laundry_queen]

35. I live in Alberta

And you are correct about the obliviousness and/or wanting the money. Got in an argument with my mom the other day. She works in the oil patch. I got the "how do you think you were fed and clothed as a child? That's right, you can thank the oil industry!" the other day. Not enough of these for that comment. I just said there won't be any food or clothes to buy if we keep on down this path....

[gulliver]

27. It's actually counterproductive if not the same place, imo. n/t

[MineralMan]

29. Exactly my point.

There are plenty of excellent arguments against tar sand development. By using an obviously fake pair of images, whoever did this debases the actual arguments, and will cause many to simply dismiss the whole thing. Sometimes, people do the stupidest things to sell their concept. This pair of photos goes about as far as I can believe. For pete's sake, they didn't even bother to photoshop the photos. They didn't even try to make a relevant before and after image.

Therefore, I judge whoever put that together as an idiot who is doing more harm than good to that very legitimate cause.

It's like the Republicans using an image of the crowd at Obama's inaugural to try to fool people about the turnout for a GOP event. The attempt at deception is obvious, so they waste their effort. Stupid.

[Swede]

6. Those are not the same place,so why post them.

Find 2 of the same place.

[Zalatix]

11. Actually, the truth is a little uglier than that.

Please read the article.

[Sheepshank]

7. Tar sand areas of extraction are ugly

...but I don't think the before and after pics are of the same area.

[warrior1]

8. link to the story

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2011/08/17/ten-years-after-911-%E2%80%93-canadas-true-cost-of-oil/

I think it's more a story of what has been happening and what's at stake.

[MineralMan]

30. Yes. Excellent article. The image in the OP did not come from it.

The images in the article were just fine. This image in the OP is moronic in its failure to even try to make a good comparison. It has nothing to do with the article, which may be why the OP didn't link to the article. Bogus.

[KG]

9. doesn't matter what the before pic is, the after pic would still be as ugly.

[TheKentuckian]

13. True...but if you want to argue for the project or even just pretend it isn't a big deal

you must hang on to such worthless distinctions. Well, if you want to also pretend you give a squirty shit about the future, the environment, wildlife, water, air, or anything besides profits for big carbon.

[raouldukelives]

23. And not just big carbon.

But millions of investors and 401k holders. Sights like that make them bemoan the loss of nature but not enough to make them prefer it over personal retirement savings.

[NYC_SKP]

10. Tar Sands, Oil Shale, Frakking: Why they say Peak Oil is a Myth....

Oh, we just keep finding more and more fossil fuels, we'll never run out (they'd like you to think).

Nobody has ever challenged them, the way Rachel might, to explain where our energy will come from in 100 or 200 years.

Business as usual is so fucking shockingly unsustainable it makes my ears bleed.

[Ezlivin]

21. You, my friend, are informed

Limited resources are a physical reality.

But it's science. We know how science is treated by many citizens in this country.

[excuse not to write]

14. They used to be such a NICE country!

What happened?

[JohnnyChill]

19. The right wing happened...

Our neo-con Prime Minister Stephen Harper now has a majority government (on 39% of the votes cast) and he is remaking Canada based on his ideology.

He is doing the typical right wing thing - eliminating environmental controls, cutting services, giving tax cuts to the rich, implementing lob-sided free trade agreements that only favour the rich, he wants to bring in warrantless spying, he's brought in a new crime bill with minimum sentences (among other things) to fill up his prisons, he's cutting our pensions (even though economists says it's not necessary) he wants to privatize our health care system and so on.

We are doomed as a nation.

[juajen]

24. For God"s sake, fight back! Don't you have good people up there with a voice?

[JohnnyChill]

26. We have three more years of hell to go...

Progressive Canadians will not take this lying down. Jack Layton the opposition party leader died in August of last year. The race to find his replacement is going on right now. The Liberals also need to find a strong leader as Bob Rae right now is filling in temporarily.

Until we can get the Conservatives out, Canada will only be an impediment to global warming/climate change.

And if everything I've said isn't bad enough, we now find out the Conservatives, borrowing tricks from the Republicans, illegally sent out robocalls targeting opposition voters telling them to go to the wrong voting station in this past election where Harper won his majority (his majority hinged on less than 6,500 votes.) These people are despicable.

Obama is not perfect, but he's way better than anything the right wing has planned for America next time they get control.

[laundry_queen]

34. More than 2/3rds of Canadians are what

the US would call 'far left'. Unfortunately, our left is split between 4 parties, which is the only reason Harper is in power.

This robocall thing could be his undoing though. My extremely conservative brother said that if the cons DID do the whole robocall thing, he will NEVER ever vote for them again so long as he lives. I doubt he's the only one. Now if only our media doesn't roll over and die....

[excuse not to write]

25. You'll come back

Having grown up in Maine, I've known many Canucks. You're not apoplectic like we are. Harper is a douche, but you'll survive him.

[arikara]

31. Actually we are apoplectic

appalled, dismayed, pissed off, mad as hell. Harper is worse than a douche, he said that if he got a majority we would not recognize our country when he was through with it. It turns out that he's not just the fraudulently "elected" prime minister of Canada, he's China's bitch and he doesn't care if Canada looks like the after picture above as long as his masters get their raw resources.