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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy bother? They're all screwing us over.
This is a rant. The Trans Pacific Partnership feels like a last straw. And when combined with the lack of fortitude to prevent the hijacking of the internet by the corporate pirates, it has given me a massive feeling of Why Bother?
Some personal background.
I'm a long-time Duer, going back to the early Boosh era. My level of participation here has gone up and down and up and down over the years, depending both on my personal activities at the time and on the current nature of events and issues (elections, health care, our various wars, etc.).
My perspective has been straightforward since the 70's. I am a Moderate Progressive or what used to be called A Liberal.
I simply believe that government should exist to balance the excesses of capitalism and to be the collective representation of the overall public interest....To make sure workers receive decent wages and working conditions; to defend consumers;protect the environment; to make sure we actually have a competitive Free Enterprise economy rather a Monopoly of Oligarchs; to provide a safety net for those who need help, etc.
In my younger years, that was a mainstream position. But steadily that has been marginalized due to a combination of factors, including periodic ups and downs of the economy and other issues; the brainwashing of too many people by Corporate and Right Wing Propaganda and the machinations of Republican CONservatives....and too many goddamn Sellouts in the Democratic Party.
Bill Clinton, for example, could have been a Great Liberal President who helped the nation recover from the excesses of Reagan Trickle Down Economics and guide us back to the REAL CENTER. But even though he talked a good game, he was every bit as much of a Corporate Stooge and Snake Oil salesman as Reagan. He managed to cram down such atrocities as Media Deregulation and NAFTA/Free Trade down our throats -- which gave the oligarchs even more power and helped gut the poor and middle class.
The Democratic Congress has been a mixed bag. There are (have been) some great Democratic liberal and progressive legislators, who have done all they could to bring the country back to some kind of true center. But they have been outnumbered by the sellouts and/or wimpy weasels and the minions of the DLC.
Presidential Obama? Like Clinton, he talks a great game. And maybe he means well. But behind the screen, he has been just as aligned with Wall St. and the Big Money Corporate oligarchs...People say he's doing the best he can under difficult circumstances. I don't know. Maybe. But too often his actions and alliances seem to be just as embedded in the oligarchy as any other DLC style phony centrist Democrat.
His support for this current version of the Great Trade Robbery -- otherwise known as the Trans Pacific Partnership -- indicates that he is either just as stupid as Clinton or just as deceptively cunning about the implications of these free trade scams.
NAFTA and these other con-jobs have proven to be totally destructive to both the national sovereignty of the US and to the economic and social interests of the majority of the population.
And yet, here we are -- watching the President pushing the same old pile of shit. Its even worse now because we know from experience that it is a pile of shit.
All of this makes me wonder why bother thinking about any of this? Who gives a rats ass when both parties are going to screw us over. The only difference sometimes seems to the sales pitch. Democrats appeal to our higher nature, while Republicans pander to our lower nature. But the end product is the same.
I'd be pleased to be convinced otherwise. But the basic fact is we're all getting screwed 20 ways from Sunday, and no one with any power is doing a goddamn thing to help us millions of poor saps who aren't in the tiny little inner circle.
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MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"I'd be pleased to be convinced otherwise. But the basic fact is we're all getting screwed 20 ways from Sunday, and no one with any power is doing a goddamn thing to help us millions of poor saps who aren't in the tiny little inner circle. "
...is give up. I agree. Enough with being "poor saps."
Schweitzer 2016.
bobduca
(1,763 posts)for the win
"Mocking Scorn for the win"
...my bad. Elizabeth Warren 2016
WASHINGTON, DC – In remarks delivered on the floor of the Senate this afternoon, United States Senator Elizabeth Warren applauded the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau’s (CFPB) new mortgage rules, which will go into effect on Friday, January 10.
Under the new rules, a lender must determine that a borrower has the ability to repay a mortgage before issuing the loan. The rules will also prohibit brokers from being paid by lenders to steer customers into higher-cost loans and strengthen the mortgage market by improving mortgage servicing practices.
"Thanks to the consumer agency's new rules, families will be safer, pension funds and other investors will be safer, and our whole economy will be safer," Senator Warren said in her remarks. "And the rules will reshape the mortgage market for the better. They will give people a better chance to buy homes and a better chance to keep those homes, and they will force mortgage lenders and servicers to compete by offering better rates and customer service, not by tricking and trapping people. These rules will help markets work better, and they will reduce the risk that the economy will crash again."
Senator Warren highlighted the success the CFPB already has had helping consumers, including returning more than $3 billion to consumers who were cheated and resolving tens of thousands of complaints against financial institutions. The new mortgage rules will affect millions of families who own or plan to purchase a home.
"The consumer bureau's new mortgage rules show once again that government can fix problems," said Senator Warren. "Sure, we have to work hard, we have to fight against those who benefit from the broken system, and we have to stick with it even when the odds are against us. But when we do those things, real change is possible in this country. We're seeing that up close this week."
For more information about the new mortgage rules, a fact sheet is available at the CFPB's website here.
http://www.warren.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=309
bobduca
(1,763 posts)AN HERE'S THA BLUE LINKS TA PROOVE IT!111111
You nailed the posting bot.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)"All of this makes me wonder why bother thinking about any of this? Who gives a rats ass when both parties are going to screw us over. The only difference sometimes seems to the sales pitch. Democrats appeal to our higher nature, while Republicans pander to our lower nature. But the end product is the same.
I'd be pleased to be convinced otherwise. But the basic fact is we're all getting screwed 20 ways from Sunday, and no one with any power is doing a goddamn thing to help us millions of poor saps who aren't in the tiny little inner circle. "
...I'm agreeing with. Screw this crap. "Who gives a rats ass"?
Armstead
(47,803 posts)If you think i'm being full of crap, just come out and say so. And state why, without overlays of clever and confusing snark.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Bill Clinton, for example, could have been a Great Liberal President who helped the nation recover from the excesses of Reagan Trickle Down Economics and guide us back to the REAL CENTER. But even though he talked a good game, he was every bit as much of a Corporate Stooge and Snake Oil salesman as Reagan."
G_j
(40,367 posts)infoviro
(59 posts)
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Of course, he had to shaft the poor and middle class to do it, but, hey! It did wonders for Wall Street.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)
elzenmahn
(904 posts)The poster was right. Bill Clinton did not govern as a liberal or progressive in the slightest. He was in the pockets of the banks and the largest corporations - witness NAFTA and the Telecommunications Act of 1996, as well as "welfare reform".
He did, in fact, initially want to have a progressive administration. It was when the banks got to him prior to his inauguration that he changed his tune, and fast.
Like anybody else, he will be judged by his deeds more than his words. His deeds displayed him to be a thru-and-thru corporatist, and certainly NOT one of our greatest presidents.
treestar
(82,383 posts)or Bernie for President. giving up on them is the last straw!
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I don'lt have any faith in the ones who actually have power. The Clintons and Obamas and all of the other Corporate Centrist Democrats who Golf With the Big Boys.
I had faith in Obama once. But once he got in power, he joined The Club.
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)of your post, but I was always wary of Obama. Unfortunately, my concerns were well founded.
merrily
(45,251 posts)He was anointed by Reid and other before the primary began or he would never have been in the primary.
Obama thought that his own best interests lay in serving more time in the Senate before trying for Oval. It was the party leaders and think tankers, like Reid and Daschle, who convinced Obama to run after he had barely found the location of Senate Dining Room. Hillary was thought to have too much "baggage" to win the general. I don't know what their problems with the other hopefuls were (Biden and Dodd, for example. I can guess what their problems with Kucinich were).
Think back to the flap about Harry Reid making a speech to party higher ups about Obama in which Reid was trying to sell Obama, but ended up sounding at least faintly racist.
Why would Reid have to sell Obama to Party higher ups if the party were going to remain neutral until the primaries were over?
The difference between how MSNBC treated Obama and how it treated Hillary was not, IMO, unrelated to the Party's decision that Obama was the one.
Apparently, now, they think there is enough distance between the Clinton white house years and 2016; and also that Hillary's performance as Secretary of State will outweigh her tendency to ignore Whitewater related subpoenas, the bit about stuffing trousers with stolen papers, Lewinski and the rest of the Clinton mess. At least it seems that way right now (that they think this is her time to be the nominee).
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)As far as we know, Ancient Athens was the only true democracy in all of human history. Every citizen had the right to vote on every matter. No one "represented" anyone else.
We are, as the pledge of allegiance says, a republic, meaning we (whoopie) get to vote every now and again for someone who in theory represents us, but has a 7% approval rating from us. So, I guess they don't represent us. Maybe they represent the 7%.
The Senate has more powers than the house because, originally, the House was elected by voters in general, while the Senate was elected by the state plutocrats, often (at that time) recently appointees of the king or other relatively wealthy, well-connected people.
Even when it comes to who gets to vote for alleged representatives, we were not at all egalitarian originally. And the last group to get the vote got it less than 100 years ago. Poll taxes did not become unconstitutional until 1964.
But that goes to egalitarianism and equality. Democracy vs. Republic is about who gets to vote on things like taxes, declaring war, etc. If you and I got to vote on those things, we'd be a democracy.
They tell us we're a democracy because that sounds so, well, democratic. And, until a few months ago, I believed them.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)could participate. We have a higher percentage if you count voting on a Diebold machine, participating.
merrily
(45,251 posts)you may be crossing over between "egalitarian" and "democracy." If I am not reading your post correctly, then I you will need to explain your point to me because I am not picking it up on my own.
Aside from traditional monarchies, dictatorships, etc., the Framers had two models from which to begin: Ancient Athens, a democracy, or ancient Rome, a Republic. They chose Rome.
e·gal·i·tar·i·an (-gl-târ-n)
adj.
Affirming, promoting, or characterized by belief in equal political, economic, social, and civil rights for all people.
re·pub·lic (r-pblk)
n.
1.
a. A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president.
b. A nation that has such a political order.
2.
a. A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
b. A nation that has such a political order.
3. often Republic A specific republican government of a nation: the Fourth Republic of France.
Athenian democracy developed in the Greek city-state of Athens, comprising the central city-state of Athens and the surrounding territory of Attica, around 550 BC. Athens is one of the first known democracies. Other Greek cities set up democracies, and even though most followed an Athenian model, none was as powerful, stable, or as well-documented as that of Athens.
It remains a unique and intriguing experiment in direct democracy, a political system in which the people do not elect representatives to vote on their behalf but vote on legislation and executive bills in their own right. Participation was by no means open, but the in-group of participants was constituted with no reference to economic class and they participated on a large scale. The public opinion of voters was remarkably influenced by the political satire performed by the comic poets at the theatres.[1]
If everyone over a certain age has the right to vote, that is egalitarian. The US was not egalitarian until 1964, when the 24th amendment finally rendered poll taxes unconstitutional. But, becoming more and more egalitarian over the centuries never altered our form of government. We were established as, and remain to this day, a republic.
As my prior post stated, democracy is a form of government in which citizens vote directly on matters, as opposed to voting only for representatives. Democracy is a form of government in which representatives do not exist. People vote for themselves. Who is entitled to be a citizen in any given nation at any given time has nothing to do what form of government that nation has at that moment.
As a separate point though--not having to do with form of government, in Ancient Athens, as in the US after 1964, every adult citizen had the right to vote. However, Athens was picky about who could be a citizen. So, it was a democracy, but not an egalitarian democracy. Up until 1964, we were a republic, but not an egalitarian republic. In 1964, we became an egalitarian republic, at least as far as voting rights.
Like the early US, Ancient Athens had a large group of slaves. So, if you want to focus on percentage of population entitled to vote for some reason, don't compare the US today with an ancient slave nation.
Rather, at least go back to a more comparable time in our own history, when we, too, were selective about who was entitled to vote: I 'm guessing no more than 20% of the total population of the US was entitled to vote then. Not members of First Nations, not slaves, not women, not people who did not own land, not people who did not pay taxes, etc. (Some things varied by state.) But again, who is entitled to vote is a separate matter from what form of government the people have.
A final complication: because dictionaries are revised continually to reflect how a word is used currently, dictionaries today define a democracy in terms of voting for representatives, as well as citizens voting directly on matters like war. A modern dictionary definition simply reflects that people today call almost any form of government in which people vote "a democracy."
So then, we get hybrid terms, like "direct democracy" (technically redundant) vs. "democratic republic" (technically impossible).
However, the Framers would have understood "democracy" as meaning "voting on issues, as in Ancient Athens" and "republic" as meaning voting for representatives, as in Ancient Rome . Whereas, a term like "democratic republic" might have caused them to scratch their wigged heads.
I know it's a lot to take in. And it is also hard to wrap one's mind around because it goes against everything we've been told all our lives and therefore everything we've been saying ourselves all our lives. When I looked into it, I could barely believe my own eyes.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)involved about 20% of the population. It is certainly considered a democracy but probably not to be emulated.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Again: the percent of the population that votes has absolutely nothing to do with what form of government a nation has. It has nothing to do with whether a nation is a democracy or a republic or a constitutional monarchy. It has to do only with whether a society is egalitarian or not. And with that, I give up.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)We did not adopt a democracy as our form of government, as did Ancient Athens, because the Framers thought that the rabble (us) could not be trusted. However, we did emulate the Ancient Athenian policy of elitism as to voting. Ancient Athens was not egalitarian about voting rights, but neither were we. So we did emulate the bad bit, probably even surpassed it.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)When I say elites it isnt necessarily financial elites but includes intellectual elites.
merrily
(45,251 posts)
Blanks
(4,835 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)And they're all gonna wonder... what happened in the 2014 elections???
Divided government... it's part of the plan.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)AND...
As Cenk Uyger has said time after time...
Republicans are the Harlem GlobeTrotters, and The Democrats are the Washington Generals...
Entertaining, lotsa laffs, but ultimately... rigged.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Many Democrats, and our president, raise protestations, but allow the Globetrotters to keep driving the ball to the net.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)The Republicans turn things to the right, then the Democrats hold everything in place until the Republicans turn it farther to the right.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)
merrily
(45,251 posts)If I am not mistaken, Reagan raised taxes again and again, while Clinton "ended welfare as we know it," gave us NAFTA and repealed Glass Steagall.
When Reagan raised taxes, Democrats didn't mind. Republicans minded, but he was "their" guy, so all hell did not break loose in the streets. They excused him, probably calling him fiscally responsible in light of Democratic spending. (Just a guess there.)
When Clinton bragged about ending welfare as we know it, Democrats took it, maybe even praised him or excused him. Had a Republican done that, would it have gone down so easily. And when he told Democrats in Congress that he wanted repeal of Glass Steagall on his desk ASAP, maybe they didn't all vote for repeal, but they did not sell him out to media either.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)But too manyb of them were part of the same interlocking web of corruption and/or cowardice.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Also, the President is the head of the party, with the right to choose the head of the DNC and control the DNC treasury. If you are locked in a tight primary or general election battle, you are going to want him (and other prominent Democrats) in your state campaigning for you and you are going to want DNC funds helping you win.
A sad truth.
G_j
(40,367 posts)I think we all have the feeling these sorts things are done deals. Sometimes all we can do is make it as PAINFUL as possible.
There are at least some Democrats in Congress who want to do that with TTP. We can't stop making noise, even if we know we will lose again.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)There are only so many cycles of "hope and change" being sabatoged by the same people who promise us "hope and change" that a body can stand. It becomes like the Myth of Sysiphus.
I'm starting to think I'd rather be happy and apathetic than idealistic and pissed off in my latter years.
Like my mother used to say "I'm just glad I won't be around to see the results of all this crap when the chickens come home to roost."
G_j
(40,367 posts)I completely get what you are saying. Sometimes happiness is a revolutionary act. It may be more effective just to smile at someone.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)She was grateful and happy, and i felt great.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)either of us have been alive. Just look at the history of American politics since the 1890s. It's a circle that never ends, never heals, and never stabilizes no matter where we are in the process. We go from plutocracy to social reform and back to plutocracy, from invented war to the illusion of peace to invented war, from William McKinley to Teddy Roosevelt to William Taft to Woodrow Wilson to Warren Harding.... it's just the way it's always been and we've never been able to stop the owners of us all from using us and playing us. I say.. it's the system and it doesn't work.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Some are assholes because they're rotten and use everyone. The rest of us are asshioles for continually letting them get away with it.
I'm in a really shitty mood tonight. 
defacto7
(13,485 posts)It's all worth a shitty mood.
merrily
(45,251 posts)we have the government that we deserve. Well not the one that I deserve, but one that the rest of you clowns deserve. (I kid.)
But, sometimes, I think that making us think that we have something to do with who ends up in office in just one more part of the dishonest system And even if we do have something to do who ends up in office, it's very little.
As i said, I vacillate between the two, depending upon how cheerful I feel at the moment.
lordsummerisle
(4,651 posts)A people's history of the united states and you'll see it's been going on for a very long time...
merrily
(45,251 posts)the need for campaign finance reform?
struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)but there they stemmed the rebel tide and there the faith was saved ...
the madmen came with chains and war to prison us in hate
and many a good man fought and died to save the stricken faith ...
isn't this a time! isn't this a time!
a time to try the soul of man! isn't this a terrible time? ...
isn't this a time! isn't this a time!
a time to free the soul of man! isn't this a wonderful time!
Armstead
(47,803 posts)struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)Head Monk Ming pursued the Sixth Patriarch Hui-Neng to the peak of Ta-yu Mountain, and when Ming arrived, the teacher put his own robe and bowl on a rock, saying, "My robe represents the Dharma, and we must not fight for it: please take it back with you." Ming tried to lift it but found it as immovable as the mountains. So he said, "I seek the Dharma, not the robe: show me the Way." And the Teacher replied, "Be quick now: without thinking of profit or loss, can you show me at this very moment your original face?"
The Gateless Gate
Koan 23
Rabbi Zusya died and stood before the judgment seat of God, waiting for God to appear. He became nervous, thinking how little he had done in his life, and began to imagine God would ask "Why weren't you Moses?" or "Why weren't you Solomon?" or "Why weren't you King David?" But the rabbi was surprised, for God appeared and asked only, "Why weren't you Zusya?"
Tales of the Hasidism
Martin Buber
To be Pete Seeger has been the task facing Pete Seeger: your task is to be Armstead
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)....and you just want to puke.
Well, I'm sick and tired of fighting. Mainly because no matter what we do for the good, too many are just political slackers. They either don't ever get involved or they do and they just screw things up.
Then ya think about all those who gave their lives. They sacrificed it all. And there's MLK who went to the mountain top and feared no man. And he was killed, but look at what he got started. But it wasn't just him that succeeded, it was the millions who got up and stood up for their rights. It sure wasn't the slackers who made sure change happened.
Then you read threads like this..........
struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)Keep your eyes on the prize
Hold on
Paul and Silas thought they was lost
Dungeon shook and the chains come off
Keep your eyes on the prize
Hold on ...
Only chain that a man can stand is that chain of hand on hand
Keep your eyes on the prize
Hold on ...
The only thing I did was wrong was stay in the wilderness too long
Keep your eyes on the prize
Hold on ...
Armstead
(47,803 posts)And I don't like saying that because I've always hated defeatism....But I feel defeated.
Hopefully this too will pass.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Success is a great motivator. We've not had enough success. Some, tho. And now, due to old age, we've just got to look for lots of help. And a thread like this don't inspire the young, does it?
Not that a thread on DU is going to change the world or anything but threads like this do typify why success has been lacking.
As for me, the things I dug into, worked hard on, and fought to the end, most ended with the change desired. A modicum of success, if you will. And it sure wasn't threads like this that motivated me, although people telling me I was wasting my time did keep the fire stoked. But what really helped was people telling me I was needed.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)But I have seen this f'ing cycle too many times. We work for people who convince us they will represent our interests, and then they work against out interests.
I've tried to rationalize that too many times. I'm fed up with it.
Maybe this mood will pass. But we need more than the phony pseudo change we've been buying into all this time.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I don't see that the give up mentality does anything. It's just a call for attention. I'm going to give up, so try to stop me by giving me lots of attention and hope and solutions so I can shoot them down.
And the exaggeration. The TPP and the Net ruling? Really? Tell that to people who lived through WWII, served in Vietnam, and so many other things.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)came back today, he'd be REALLY PISSED.
struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)... Williams Institutional CME Church
Harlem, New York
December 20, 1964
... It was the 31st of August of 1962, that eighteen of us traveled 26 miles to the county courthouse in Indianola, Mississippi, to try to register ... After taking this literacy test, some of you have seen it, we have 21 questions and some is not questions. It began with: "Write the date of this application. What is your full name. By whom are you employed" — so we can be fired by the time we get back home ... After finishing this form, we started on this trip back to Ruleville, Mississippi, and we was stopped by the same city policeman ... When we got back to Indianola the bus driver was charged with driving a bus the wrong color ... This same bus had been used year after year to haul people to the cotton fields to pick cotton and to chop cotton. But, this day, for the first time that this bus had been used for voter registration it had the wrong color ... When we got to Ruleville .. I was met there by my daughter and my husband's cousin that told me this man was raising a lot of Cain because I had went to Indianola. My oldest girl said that she believed I would have to leave there ... He said, "I mean that. You will have to go down and withdraw or you will have to leave" I said, "Mr. Marlow," I said, "I wasn't trying to register for you today. I was trying to register for myself." And this was it. I had to leave that same night ... On the tenth of September in 1962, sixteen bullets were fired into the home of Mr. and Mrs. Robert Tucker, where I'd been living after I was fired from this plantation. That same night, two girls was shot in Ruleville ... And you can always hear this long sob story: "You know it takes time." For three hundred years, we've given them time. And I've been tired so long, now I am sick and tired of being sick and tired, and we want a change ...
Armstead
(47,803 posts)But right now the systemic nature of the abuses that are being heaped on us -- with the acquiescence and support of too many the politicians who claim to be on our side -- makes me sick and I'm tired of caring about it.
Hopefully that will change. This too shall pass.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I say that because everyone said he could never have done what he did without her. While I am sure that is accurate, I am happy to see that, even at his age, he is still helping raise money for good causes, still speaking out, still singing. And most of all, still alive.
treestar
(82,383 posts)And people overcame.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)All of the gains get unraveled.
Hell we're even descending back to a point where slavery is almost acceptable again.
I'm not saying to give up. But I am just angry and frustrated with the unraveling of everything.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I'm 67. Seeing it all unravel is what really depresses me, too. So many people worked so hard for the gains that were made in the '60s -- and even going back further to the rise of the unions and the New Deal -- but little by little, it's all eroding. I worry for my grandchildren.
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)The center - to me that's just screwing the non rich half as much - half but still using them. 'Third Way" is a Wall Street/Corporate Con.
So many liberals just seem oblivious to what's really happening. How progressive people can get so geeked about neo democrats like Obama and Hillary mystifies me. I wonder how many Obamabots even know about the TPP.
I'm not real sure where we're headed either short or long term but like always it will have to get much worse to jar enough people out of the matrix.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Some of us are just realizing it and that is a steep learning curve.
No one with power is helping us because we have given them no incentive whatever to do so. Clinton went from being a relatively poor Governor of a poor state to having hundreds of millions of dollars, respect, affection, as much leisure time as he wants, etc. What did I do to or for him that could compare with that?
Now that we get that GOTV is not the full answer to all our political problems (and I am a latecomer to that), we need to start working much more in other directions, I think.
Things like tax strikes, boycotts, etc. would, I believe, get their attention. Massive demonstrations, as they've been having in Europe, would probably get their attention, too. Tens of thousand of people in one city. To put it bluntly, I don't think anything is going to happen unless and until they think we can unite and hurt them somehow, preferably in the wallet.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)And then you read threads like this....
Heck, most people don't even vote, much less hit the streets. And why? Why don't they join up? Threads like this give you an idea, and presidents like Clinton, too. Where is he? Why doesn't he stand up for the poor and downtrodden? Like you say, he owes us nothing. He, and so many like him, didn't get rich because of us, he got rich from the rich 1%.
We could take them by virtue of our numbers, but then you read threads like this.... and Truth smacks ya, hard.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)If you're not frustrated and pissed off, you're not paying attention.
Numbers are meaningless if the people who we put on place to represent us don't represent us.
I've been conned one too many times.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)I've not been personally conned. I see thru the bullshit.
The thing is threads like this, indeed most threads on DU these days, are not motivational at all. They don't empower people or tend to educate and inform. Threads mostly are just bitching and moaning.
One thing I read many years ago from the younger set about us old farts: This ain't no party. It's not any fucking fun. You old farts are party poopers!
Armstead
(47,803 posts)The Democratic Party ought to be reflecting peoel like Sherrod brown, Elizabeth Warren, Barbara Lee, Tom Harkin and others of that ilk.
Instead it's driven by the cabal of Corporate Insiders -- or wannabe Corporate Insiders. They do more damage than Republicans, ultimately. They co-opt the opposition to Corporate Rule, and ultimately enhance the power and wealth of the Oligarchs.
We can't continue to be motivated to accept that.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)or the OP?
oh, boo hoo, the OP was not inspiring. Doesn't make it any less true.
And your own responses are less than inspiring. You don't want to cheer up the OP, encourage him to press on. Instead you would rather piss and moan, just not about Obama or DLC Congresspeople or Republicans - no, you just want to piss and moan about the OP, and people like the OP.
What an inspiration.
Maybe, instead of KICKING this thread which you think is such a Debbie Downer, you could go start your own far more inspirational thread.
I will sit down in this chair right here, and you can show me how it's done.
Fire on the mountain, run boy run.
sendero
(28,552 posts).... it's kind of hard to confront the truth if you don't even understand what is happening.
Doing the same things we've been doing for 30+ years is stupid, it is not working.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Which does not help at all.
Imagine where we would be today, if instead of WINNING 63 seats in 2010, Republicans had LOST another 63 seats.
Democrats gained 8 seats in 2012. They needed to gain 26.
A huge problem is not so much the betrayals of our victories, it is our losses that follow our victories. Even Clinton. I didn't like Clinton from when I first heard about him. I thought he talked too much like a Republican.
But Clinton would have been different without the electoral massacre of 1994. The one that did not get reversed until 2006.
And then there was the election of Bush.
And even MORE inexplicable - his RE-election. WTF?
merrily
(45,251 posts)you can do with numbers is GOTV or vote for Tweedledum or Tweedledee.
Occupy did a hell of a lot more than it gets credit for, but imagine how much more it could have done (and could still do) if tens of thousands of people had turned out in each city. Or if 56,000 had shown up when Occupy Wall Street got to D.C. , instead of 56. Look what the MLK's/Rustin's March on Washington did.
And if Occupy Wall Street is not your cup of tea, get involved in something else, like a boycott.
If you want to give up, you have my permission. But don't keep making one excuse, then another. It's not your age. Seeger is in his 90s. It's not that numbers don't matter. It's that you're over it because you're over it. At least for now.
merrily
(45,251 posts)defacto7
(13,485 posts)can make one come to the smacking truth that the system has never been what we have learned to expect, and the status quo is more systemically screwed than the superficial "get out the vote" or "I worked hard and made it" will fix.
Sometimes a person has to scream and give up to be able to gain the strength to keep going, and in doing so may be closer to being smacked by the truth than the person who just keeps playing the same old game as if there's something new in it.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Maybe I have been blessed to see it in its nakedness, while others see just the clothes it wears.
Seeing its truth has allowed me to work it to my benefit by not being conned into thinking it would change just because I stamped my feet and growled. No, one has to get in the bed before politics can be truly manipulated to coming around to do the right thing.
Giving up by getting out of bed never works. The problem is too many bad people are climbing into the bed and not enough good people are willing to make the sacrifice of getting any on them during the intercourse.
Politics is a bloody mess and I don't blame people for not getting in the bed in the first place, or giving up. But there is no success without sacrifice, and so in that sense we are out numbered. The bad people who use politics for their own glory are winning because there are more of them playing than there are good.
merrily
(45,251 posts)what you want.
You weirdo, you!
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)
Amonester
(11,541 posts)yeah... massive demonstrations... didn't get their attention for very long... as they proceeded to violently shut them down as fast as they could.... and without using too many of their stock piles of drones too (if any).
Glad (and sad) I'm now 60 going 61, so I don't think I'll be conscious anymore when the feces really start to hit the fan en masse.
merrily
(45,251 posts)on foreclosures, Occupy Sandy, etc. Maybe reading this thread will give you a different perspective.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4343686
More people are living to over 100 these days. You could still be here when the feces really starts to hit the fan. So, don't give up. 
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)because you feel so betrayed and foolish. Then you realize, feeling like that is very freeing. When you are in 'we have to win' mode, you think your party will fight for you, but feel uneasy about the candidates, yet don't feel you have a choice, which is what they want us to feel, you are actually TRAPPED.
But the minute your eyes open, and it takes a while, all of a sudden you are FREE of all those chains, party loyalty, hope then disappointment etc.
I believe you are far from alone. People feeling just like you are struggling with what to do next also. Give up, relax, have fun or continue. Maybe there is a 'third way' (sorry!). I think there are people organizing to try to come up with a different way of getting some of what we want.
I haven't given up yet, but I am where you are as far as what we have been doing. No more loyalty for me. I want candidates I can support, no more nose-holding. If the dems don't provide candidates we approve of, then we are free to find them on our own and vote for them. One of the ways they have stopped good Progressive candidates is to try to scare us 'do you want Palin to win'? Well that won't work anymore.
What if we had not listened? what if we had voted for the one we really wanted and if that person doesn't win, don't vote for their candidate. They know we are not happy but they don't care, so long as they get the votes.
Someone said if you want to take down the oligarchy find out what they want least and do it, or something like that. When they undermine the Progressive candidate they do it knowing we will have no choice but to vote for their candidate. Make them wrong. Don't do it.
Hopefully more and more people will get together, ignore the usual bullying to vote as they see fit and get together with others who feel the same way as you do. It could be fun. Actually from where you are right now, the only way to go is up.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Sixty seven counties here in California have the MRAPs, which cost more than $ 350,000. Meanwhile meanwhile, of course, the schools are operating on budgets forty percent less than what they were in 2009! And then there are cuts to Food Stamps, elimination of unemployment benefits, attack on Social Security, and all the while Trillions, not billions, TRILLIONS, are diverted to the military and to surveillance.
merrily
(45,251 posts)But in some impoverished country--sorry I forgot which--the police actually sat down in the street to show that they were not going to interfere with the demonstrators.
It was the kind of country where widespread poverty being a cop probably meant the difference between feeding your family without having your kids working in some sweat shop at age 8 or not feeding your family.
Somehow the demonstrators had gotten the cops on their side. The left has, candidly, sucked at that.
I am not saying we can do it all by next week. I am saying we stop doing what we have been doing because it obviously is not working for us. And we start thinking about what else it is that we may be able to do. Start helping to strengthen unions again. Start building bridges with military and first responders. Maybe even start building bridges with the other half of the 99%, namely, heaven help us, Republicans.
Maybe some boycotts can get us somewhere. Maybe withholding taxes (understanding there is risk of prison with that). Maybe things I can't begin to think of right now because I am too used to thinking inside the box and I need to think outside the box.
Or we could live out learned helplessness.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)"Learned Helplessness" thing-ee, but that might be a residual effect of having had the flu for two weeks.
I meant to put in a link that has a photo of the MRAP vehicles. Notice how they are not something anyone can tamper with. I mean, the MRAP can survive IED explosions. I have no idea how much help they would offer police in normal style situations. Marin county is total grid lock 15 hours out of 24. Unless someone helicopters the vehicle, it probably won't get there.
The photo is on the right:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRAP
merrily
(45,251 posts)I live in Boston. We were one of seven cities/towns on lockdown while the military, state police, local police and police from other jurisdictions searched for the Boston Marathon bombers. My eyes were glued to local TV from midnight to 5 pm. I get vehicles.
Let me short cut it even more.
I've been researching bullet proof vests and other defensive measures.
I will not be self-immolating or taking any utterly pointless risks because I enjoy my life. However, if there is any realistic possibility of a victory, I am ready to make whatever sacrifice is necessary.
However, I hope it will not be necessary. It was not necessary in 1929 or in 1964. And yes, I realize that they have armed up and camera'd up and surveilled up since then. But I hope that they would stop short of mowing us down in the streets. maybe just out ego or embarrassment if nothing else. Maybe not. But I ain't just whistling in the dark. I am ready to be a casualty, if it does come to that, though I will do my best to avoid it.
PS. Also ready to go to jail for not paying taxes. If it was good enough for Thoreau, it's good enough for me. Don't know what they can do to me if I boycott, but I'm ready for that, too.
ancianita
(36,080 posts)way? I've joined crowds, canvassed, written letters, called and donated to Obama and Occupy. Participated. It's never enough. I feel that awareness of our dilemma is everywhere with voters of both parties. That we're at a standstill. Should we just do sabotagy things to corporations? I'm taxed with no representation. I'm cynical. I'm at a loss. And I'm one of the economically comfortable. This whole OP argument is so seductive. 
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Not a solution i recommend, but it's just what I am feeling at the moment.
merrily
(45,251 posts)It's huge progress, IMO, even that Democrats have begun to say things like this to each other. There is motion in a new direction.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)discussed here.
Dogtired
(8 posts)You are spot on as the British say. I could not have ranted it any better,but hold on to the anger and do not let it become despair. You are not alone, and though it is slow going, I hope the direction is slowly changing. I know it is one step forward and three steps back, but those like you with enough sense left to see what is really going on, must keep fighting if the progress is to take place. It does a fellow progressive's heart good to hear these rants. You are expressing the anger and frustration that fuels in us all. This anger will be the spark that ignites the flame, necessary to burn this ignorance to the ground. So keep it up and don't give up. I thank you for it.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)
- I vote deceptive.
But I don't agree with your last part though: ''....and no one with any power is doing a goddamn thing to help us millions of poor saps who aren't in the tiny little inner circle.''
We're the ONLY ONES with the power to stop this shit dead in it's tracks. The POWER of NOTHING is fucking AWESOME!!!
Don't believe me!?!?! Try it sometimes. Don't do a goddamned thing that others think you're supposed to, and see if you don't piss someone off!!!!
K&R
I post this link every time I get a chance.
http://shoqvalue.com/george-carlin-on-the-american-dream-with-transcript/
Your dollar is stronger than your vote. Affect someone's wallet & you've got their attention.
There may be three of us that understand BOYCOTT.
....
If you buy imported products,does the profit from the sale improve the economy & create jobs here?
Where does the great APPLE & all the others,manufacture their electronic products?
FRI. Jan. 17,2014 you go to work and are greeted with: "We will no longer need your services.Your job has been outsourced."
"Security will accompany you to the exit. We will box your personal property & you may retrieve it after 3:00 this afternoon."
Of course,it's not your fault for purchasing products that don't improve your personal economy.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)problem is the more the market is dominated by imported things,m the fewer options there are to NOT buy imported things.
They box us in.
go west young man
(4,856 posts)that is taking place is very similar to the deregulation of the media that Clinton put in place. This one act alone sells us further down the corporate river and takes away our choices and freedoms and hands them over to corporate entities. Meanwhile our guy in power does nothing to stop it...no different than Clinton. As we loose our freedom of expression and choice the Republicans take another step forward and all the dems ever do is roll over. And people have the stupidity these days to tout American freedom and our way of life as a model as we continue to slip into decline and are the laughing stock of the world when it comes what not to do. On internet alone we pay 3 times as much and are 10 times as slow as the leading countries. And now we will go tiered just so corporate asshats can keep more of our dollars while limiting our choice and feeding us propaganda at the same time. America the beautiful my ass. Closer to America the pitiful.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Obama has nice words, but he ought to be pushing to ensure the Internet remains open.
This is a disaster waiting to happen and wee all know it.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)That's why he doesn't even try to fix anything.
PuraVidaDreamin
(4,101 posts)I will now ALWAYS refer to congress as a collective, as our Millionaire Congress.
I heard Paul Riekoff call them that yesterday on NPR, speaking of how the
Veterans pensions and other benefits may likely be slashed in this
New budget proposal.
In that piece they mention this as a trial balloon to see if these vets, (which
The report claims, total only 1% of voters,) harm the millionaire congress
Come election time. They were one of those supposed ' third rail' and
If not, well vets will become even more disposable.
mnhtnbb
(31,392 posts)And I do not know the answer.
I do thinking hitting the ptb in the wallet makes sense. But just how to do that is becoming increasingly
difficult as so many people are stretched so thin--and that's if they even have a job.
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)Well, that isn't accurate either because they actually want us broke and are spending us down and liquidating us as we speak and replacing us with a more diffused, global consumer class.
Even without that, I think folks have a hell of a time accepting most wealth is generated now without creating much if any value at all or wrapping their heads around the high degree that mega corporations socialize their downside.
They do not fear us and we will remain powerless until they do. They will not be shamed or inconvenienced into compliance with decency, in fact they will just press along because the rewards of doing so are much greater than the cost of consequences of laughing in our faces while delivering another flurry of humiliating kicks in the crotch, which is currently cost free.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)At some time economic reality has to catch up with the shits too, because it's a house of cards.
The 2008 collapse hit a lot of people who thought they were abocve all that. It could happen again -- except on steroids.
Of course, we could as a country wake the fuck up and change things for the better before its too late.
We could. But I get more convinced we won't bother. hence my attitude is becoming more "Why bother worrying about it?"
Not a good attitude and maybe that just means I've become an old fart.
librechik
(30,674 posts)(sadly)
Please, Millennials. We need some smashing new ideas that blow our socks off and solve everything!
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)K&R
treestar
(82,383 posts)We always have to bother. Other people will think they are right just as passionately. The world was ever thus. We don't give up because it's not going our way. In our country, we don't get jailed or killed for disagreeing.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)
great white snark
(2,646 posts)There are elections that need to be won.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Seen this stale old tale replayed over and over, and I'm fed up.
I hope I'll recover some measure of hope again. But I'm tiured of giving these people slack and allowiong them to lie to us and telling us to "wait until conditions are better."
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)That's what giving up would actually look like.
Writing a long OP about giving up is NOT actually giving up, its taking a public position.
And that is why people see such OPs as "calls for people to give up", and not as actual examples of one giving up.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I obviously haven't completely given up, or I wouldn't bother even getting mad.
Sometimes when ya get pissed off ya gotta express it.
Just as if you get pissed off at me for expressing being pissed off, that's legitimate too.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Telling everyone you are pissed off is not.
On a regular basis, some one on DU "gives up" because they've had enough.
In reality, they rarely give up.
You want to know who actually gives up, its the moderate generally non-political person who keeps hearing how voting doesn't matter.
Those folks give up.
See, it takes energy to vote. Pissed off people have energy, so they usually vote. You probably will.
But moderates non-political folks are too busy for politics and they have limited energy, even for just the simple act of voting.
So when they hear others, who they know are political, say that they are "giving up", they conclude "Well, if Armstead has given up, I might as well too".
And they stay home at election time.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)As I said, this is a discussion board, for better and worse. I'm just discussin'n, and I'm in a bad mood about all of this.... usually i keep my bad moods to myself or with my friends. But sometimes a public Yowl is necessary.
I do hope maybe that enough people who are "moderates" or truly apathetic will get pissed off as a result of all of the other people who are pissed off by shit like the TPP and Internet Hijacking they might actually get motivated to light a match under the butts of those in power who claim to represent them.
Or not.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)people don't bother to show up at the polls. While it is very different from your view, I am aware that it is only my assumption. You state yours as though it's fact, as opposed to your own view.
PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)write in a personal diary or journal?
treestar
(82,383 posts)You will see more and more of this the closer the midterm election gets.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)You been on her long enough to know better.
Feel free to think i'm full of crap and am wrong. But at least acknowledge that it's honest crap.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)If you let a DU post make you give up, that is really on you.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Which is give up.
If you vote, they have to worry about the people you will elect. If you give up, they don't - they can force whomever they'd like into power.
Vote. Nobody good running in the primary? Run. Or recruit someone to run.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I'm sick of being promised one thing in return for a vote, support and money, and then having them give us something totally different when they win.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)You give up, you get what they give you.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I mean for Chrissake, we have a President who promised some difference -- And yet here is is pushing the same old Free Trade Snake Oil....and it's even worse because we know the Snake Oil is poison.
It tends to make one jaded.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)We're out of Iraq. We're on our way out of Afghanistan. We aren't in Syria or Iran.
The ACA isn't single-payer, but it lays the groundwork we will use to get single-payer.
Revolutions happen over decades. It took 30 years for the right-wing to get us to this point. The country is turning back, but it is going to take us a while to change things.
If you'd like an example of that, Reid has said no fast-track for the TPP. A few years ago, that probably wouldn't have happened.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)How you deal with them may be completely different.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I won't tick off everything, but I will use Iraq as an example.
Bush had negotiated that withdrawal date before he left office. During Obama's tenure, the military tried to get Iraq to keep us longer, but Iraq would not agree to give our civilian hired guns immunity when they did things like murder and rape their people. So we left on the date that Bush had negotiated.
I could go through every one of your other points, but that should be illustrative that what you say we got is not necessarily what we got.
One more thing: Check the actual, direct quote from Reid, as opposed to a headline or commentary. I'm not sure he no fast track for TPP. Maybe he did, All I saw in the story I read, though, as a direct quote, was that he had not given Baucus a date.
About the rest, he said something noncommital, like batting it around with his caucus or something of that sort.
go west young man
(4,856 posts)they laid out the time frame for the withdrawal plans for Iraq and even mentioned the dems would have to go along with it all with projected wrap up dates between 2008 and 2013. In other words it was always all planned and the dems were fully aware. Which bolsters the OPs argument of it being a bit useless to care as they do this stuff whether we like it or not. Dems we voted for were complicit in the deaths of all those innocent Iraqis and coalition soldiers. And now we same dems are about to put Hillary Clinton, who stupidly voted for all those deaths, into power just so we can win an election against even more dangerous assholes. It really does seem futile. Maybe we'd be better off letting the Republican asshats quickly destroy the country so we could rebuild it for the best sooner. As it goes right now it's like death by a thousand cuts.
merrily
(45,251 posts)same would not have happened under a Republican President, which was Jeff47's premise. That premise is the one to which I was replying.
While what you say is interesting, I do not agree that it bolsters the OP's argument that all action by us is useless.
I am embarrassed to quote the old saw again, but I will, because I believe it:
One definition of insanity is continuing to repeat the same behaviors while expecting a different result.
So, I agree that continuing to repeat the same behaviors is not going to change much. However, until we have tried a bunch of new things and gotten nowhere, I am not willing to say that the OP's point has been proven.
As far as we same Dems being about to put Hillary in power, speak for yourself and whoever intends to vote for Hillary. As I said, I believe in the above quote.
Maybe we'd be better off letting the Republican asshats quickly destroy the country so we could rebuild it for the best sooner. As it goes right now it's like death by a thousand cuts.
As opposed to even discussing alternatives seriously?
Of course, part of the problem on this board is that the kinds of alternatives you can discuss are limited. Boycotts are okay to mention. I think this breaks a rule, but maybe it's worth it: What about something like trying to get people to agree on not paying taxes or a portion of taxes?
I am ready to go to jail before I am ready to think accelerating Armeggdon is my only option, or that I have zero options.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And Obama didn't push Iraq for it. He asked. But never put anything behind the request, like threatening to remove aid.
Btw, we didn't invade Syria either. "But Obama made threats!!!!" Yes, but it's abundantly clear he was playing "bad cop" in the negotiations - he wasn't doing things like actually moving troops into position, for example. And while he was making noises, Kerry was negotiating. If Obama actually wanted war, Kerry wouldn't be allowed to talk to the Syrians.
So we invade Iran yet? No? How odd if there's no difference between the parties.
He basically said "not unless the caucus forces me to". A few years ago, Reid would have said yes.
Again, it took 30 years of small steps for the Republicans to drag our country to this point. It's going to take years of small steps to drag the country back.
If you want to get away from the current politics to better understand what I'm talking about, read up a bit on the French Revolution. Yes, high school history books say it started with storming the Bastille. They're utterly wrong, but that gives a nice little date that can be tested. The groundwork for the French Revolution was being laid over the preceding 80 years.
merrily
(45,251 posts)expecting a different result.
I want a different result. So the word "keep" as in "keep doing what you've been doing all your adult life" is not part of any solution.
I especially don't any longer think that to keep voting is a solution. If anything proved that to me, January 2007 through January 2011 did. I came thisclose to changing my voting registration a few times, but so far have not done so.
I will keep voting all right, but I will do so without expecting much to come from voting.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)There are a lot of small changes going on. They will add up to big changes.
Big changes only happen in the media's delusions. After a giant pile of small changes happen, the media shows up and says "Big changes!!!"
City Lights
(25,171 posts)
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Because it's the only thing we have. Throughout history the oligarchs have ruled everything. Until they didn't. It's up to us to do what we can, in our own little corner of this big sandbox and in our own way. Activism is the way to get out of the doldrums. I highly recommend it.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)there's plenty to be pissed off about.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)I think another reason for not throwing in the towel is to keep in mind those are at this time giving it their all in the struggle for improving the lot of the 99% and the environment. Doing whatever one can gives moral support to those who are in the throes of the fight.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... you've figured it out. Our government has been hijacked and it really doesn't matter which party is in power when it comes to ECONOMIC and BUSINESS issues. Yes, you will get more gay marriage and less abortion control with a typical Dem, but in matters of economic policy they all suck and they are not working for us, they are working for big money.
Just how far down we can go is anyone's guess. In history, once you squeeze the lower classes enough they rise up, but I'm not sure Americans have any rise left. So hang on for the ride. I still prefer a Democrat in DC, but after Obama I finally realized that the differences are marginal at best. It's a big club, but none of us are in it.
polichick
(37,152 posts)Until then we just bang our heads against a wall when we could be enjoying life as much as possible. For me, an ex-Dem-activist (30+ years), it's a watch and wait game now. Eventually enough people will have had it and a meaningful movement will be possible - for now, I'm smelling the roses, having fun with the people I love, and joining with other liberals to help where it's possible to help in small-scale ways.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I find the more I detach from the National Political Economic Wrestling Match and just do what I can in my own little sphere, the happier I am.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)although even that is hard in a corporate-controlled state like Alaska. Sometimes I wish Exxon, BP and ConocoPhillips would just pick up their balls and go home, tear down the Pipeline and leave us to our own devices.
CrispyQ
(36,478 posts)I personally don't see how we get out of this peacefully. Electronic voting, gerrymandering, Citizen's United, voter apathy, a media that works for the 1%, a Congress that is largely made up of the 1%. Fuck.
I changed party affiliation this year.
valerief
(53,235 posts)The Dem is the old man in park feeding pigeons. We're the pigeons and all we get are crumbs at his whim.
The Repub is the old man in his back yard shooting pigeons. We're still those same pigeons, and he shoots to kill.
Not any really hope in trusting either the Dem or Repub, but I'd rather get a crumb than a bullet.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)The Trans Pacific partnership, NAFTA, Media Deregulation, Glass Stegall deregulationl, Welfare Deform -- alas plenty of have come from Democratic politicians.
At least with republicans you know when to duck and cover
valerief
(53,235 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)There are some...Bernie, Elizabeth Warren, etc. Just not enough.
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)The truth is hard to face. It's been a long, steady slide since the 70's.
I've always liked seeing you over the years, Armstead.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)majority of us, but most have blinders on. Most just do not get it as they gobble up the crumbs thrown at their special interests to appease them.
To somewhat paraphrase the words of George Carlin, we ain't part of it! And a democracy? LOL! A democracy flew out of the US a long time ago.
We, are an example of the worst elements of runaway capitalism and it ain't stopped yet, and will only get worse.
Give it a few more years and this will look like socialism.
wandy
(3,539 posts)Sure, sometimes it looks dark. It looks like ya just cant trust that you can make a difference.
Not so. You Can/DO cause things that make a difference. Somewhere. Somehow.
God, give me grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed,
Courage to change the things which should be changed,
and the Wisdom to distinguish the one from the other.
Living one day at a time,
Enjoying one moment at a time,
Accepting hardship as a pathway to peace,
Taking, as Jesus did,This sinful world as it is,
Not as I would have it,
Trusting that You will make all things right,
If I surrender to Your will,So that I may be reasonably happy in this life,
And supremely happy with You forever in the next.
Reinhold Niebuhr
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer
Ya I know. Nice big words, especially coming from an agnostic. Still they have meaning.
You can only do what you can.
If you do not do what you can.
You fail only you're self.
The Serenity A/V project.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)To fake us into electing him in 2008. And his style brings aboard many people in Africa and other places, who think that he is the Savior.
But same endless wars for profit.
Same transfers of wealth from the folks on Main Street to the people who are the Biggest Bankers.
Same economy only worse. Under Reagan, eight cents out of every dollar of profit generated in our nation went to the Coffers of Big Banks. Under Obama that is a scandalously high 49 cents out of every dollar of profit. McCain would never have gotten away with letting Little Timmy head Treasury, and divert money from our pockets to the military industrialist surveillance dregs.
What to do? I don't know. If people did get to the point of setting up a decent Third Party, that would be co opted out from under us, because the Powers that Be have the money; we don't.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Even more, if you count state and local. The majority of them are left of the Democrats, though others are right of the Republicans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States
I am curious: What do you think would be the point of setting up yet another political party, as opposed to uniting behind one that already exists?
There will never be a party that is just perfect for each of us, unless each of us starts his or her own, which would be self-defeating at best.
I have to laugh when one Trotskyite group breaks off from another Trotskyite group and neither of them would join a Marxist group on pain of death, but that seems to be the left for ya.
As far as a party getting co-opted by money people, maybe it will; maybe it won't. I think once people prove they are willing to move elsewhere, something might shift, even within the democratic party itself. I think the conversation within the party has already shifted.
Six years ago, I sure wasn't talking or posting or thinking like this. Nor was anyone I know. We were all just thrilled at the prospect of replacing Bush with a Democrat, any Democrat.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Enter the very important election cycle of 2008, in which we had choice, it seemed.
I remember being very hopeful, circa January 2008.
But due to my involvement on this very bulletin board, by December 2008, I sadly realized that the chances we had "been played" during that election cycle were probably at least 80-20. I mean, before the end of November 2008, Obama revealed how much he liked Paulson. Then word leaked out that he was going to appoint Tim Geithner for the top spot at Treasury. The main significance of this is that when you start to examine not only the economy but the economy's link to politics, you realize that when back in 2009 or 2010, Tim Geithner told the leaders of European governments that Obama works for him, and not the other way around, he was speaking the Truth. Obama is the mere figure head, the friendly smiling aw shucks kind of guy anyone would want to have as their next door neighbor. But Obama only follows the marching orders of Big Banking, Big Military, Big Pharma, Big Ag, etc.
Anyway, the reason I qualified my "third party" remarks, I put in the words "decent" before that expression, and yes I used that word because it is true that there are really and truly about 33 different parties. Many of them have big problems.
But the Democratic Party has pretty much destroyed the possibility of restoring itself from within. One demonstration: how Rahm Emanuel spent some two if not three years of his life running around the USA, making sure that any FDR-style Democrats got shoved out of any chance of being successfully primaried. Emanuel saw to it that the Democratic Party only primaried Blue Dawgs and there tremendously RW austerity crappola, and their standing behind the Banking Cabal. And their standing behind keeping pot illegal. And being for Surveillance, and the 1.2 Trillions of dollars each year that gets spent on the military and the surveillance MIC.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I am not sure you answered my question, though. It's true that most of the third (thirty third?) parties that already exist have problems, but so does the Democratic Party. As you say, the ability of a relatively small number of Democrats to change the Democratic Party from within is very limited at best.
So, let's say that same number, which is small in comparison to all Democrats, tries to change a much smaller party from within. Wouldn't that improve their chances? (frog in a small pond vs. frog in a huge pond).
Given electoral politics, I am not 100% sure that the additional party would have to be problem free. It would just have to look as though it could swing some critical purple counties. If it could do that, it could have impact.
At least it's exploring something different than the things that have not only not worked but that have, IMO, accelerated us on the road to perdition.
But, thanks again for an interesting and thoughtful answer.
Triana
(22,666 posts)Great rant! 
trof
(54,256 posts)
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)Most democrats are covert corporate stooges. Both Clinton and Obama are much closer kin to Reagan stooges than to Roosevelt democrats. Before the end of the century, massive extinction events will take place and global civilization will probably collapse. Anyone whose agenda is to tweak the status-quo has concluded these outcomes to be inevitable. I am not one of them.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)I know damn well I'm voting for the lesser of two evils but the Republicans scare the shit out of me. The Dems suck in a lot of ways, but at least they're not going for the 'Handmaid's Tale' shit.
merrily
(45,251 posts)One theory is that Democrats are actually the more effective evil. Not necessarily my theory, but it's out there.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)They're not going to ban birth control, or re-criminalize gay sex, or any of the other insane bullshit the Dominionists want.
merrily
(45,251 posts)banning birth control. So, neither is up to elected officials of any political persuasion.
ETA: I think the Obama administration's Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives did better by religious groups than did the Bush administration's.
http://archive.is/FJC3l (Why Bush's Office floundered.)
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2008/07/01/42840/obama-vows-to-expand-bushs-faith.html (Obama vows to expand the office)
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/us/politics/white-house-director-of-faith-based-initiatives-will-step-down.html
(Lost opportunity to fix issues of separation of church and state raised by the Office)
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)level simply for lack of better options. I'd rather vote than stay home, and voting third party is a mostly futile gesture anyway.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I understand that you will vote for them no matter what; and I have no problem with that. I find that is what these discussions usually boil down to.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)That's (quasi-)democracy. But those who don't observe Election Day are in no position to ridicule those who do.
(Obviously I know you're not "ridiculing" me. I'm talking about things people have said in the past, not necessarily on DU.)
merrily
(45,251 posts)I am less hopeful and excited about voting than I used to be, but I always vote.
I think the people who claim that zero voters will de-legitimize the entire system are dreaming. I don't think there will ever be zero voters. Besides, I think the PTB may prefer that many of us stay home.
I once called the census office in an effort to see how many adults who were eligible to register to vote did not even register. They told me that they don't collect that information.
Hell, Boston knows if I have a dog in my home or not, but the feds don't care enough about how many potential voters don't bother to register to make it a question on the census?
That said something to me about how much they care about our votes.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Rejecting the lesser evil, unfortunately, often means the greater evil wins.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Someone did claim that liberals staying home was not the reason that Democrats lost the midterm. (I know that is not what you said.) A link was posted. I wish I remembered more about the discussion, but I don't. I think it was that indies and less liberal Dems stayed away.
And again, the "lesser" bit is disputed by many. Not sure if I can even say that on this board, so I won't go deeper.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Meanwhile I vote Green/independent for local and state offices, but vote Dem federally, while being well aware that I'm implicitly supporting some unfortunate policies.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Saying that you don't know what else to that is different from saying that Democrats are the lesser evil and leads to a different kind of discussion, maybe not on this board, but in the real world or on other boards. So, I think it's important to say what you mean.
For now, this is about the best answer I can give. It is not necessarily inconsistent with voting Democrat on the national level. Proceeding with more than one strategy at a time is obviously possible.
I try to think of things I can do, but it's hard without freely being able to discuss very much other than GOTV and elect more Democrats However, here are the last two posts I made just before checking out your post, where I try.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=43 mo51680
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4351654
Part of the problem in motivation is that we are not yet starving, as people are in other nations where they can gather ten thousand demonstrators, even tens of thousands, at a clip. But, with a combination of global warming, agribusiness (Big Food) and joblessness, I think the fuse has certainly been lit. Hopefully, I and others can get more motivated soon.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Yes vote for the D. At least that might forestall disaster a tiny bit.
But it goes far beyond voting or politics as usual at this point.
This could be such a great country. But we constantly find ways to fuck it up. We all (me included) enable this man-made shitstorm in many ways. In the big picture we all have to get really angry and start DEMANDING change -- and look within ourselves at the ways we enable this.
As I have stated above,I am just totally fed up with the whole pile of shit. Wealthy oligarchs who rob us blind band shithead politicians of both parties who aid and abet them -- and the collective "we" who let this shit continue to get worse, whether through our apathy or willingness to be led by their propaganda.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)even if that may not be terribly realistic at this point. But I'll take a deep breath and vote for HRC, if she's nominated.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)woman, and there are several other cities in which liberals and socialists have done well in local elections. Once more and more liberals and socialists start winning at the local level, then things will start happening at the federal level. Look at marijuana legislation. Because Nevada is voting on medical marijuana, Harry Reid has actually come out for it. He probably never would have addressed the issues had his state not been voting on it. OWS may not have succeeded on a national scale yet, but look what they have done on the local level. They have done a lot. They have raised massive amounts of money and paid off a lot of people's debt. So, I am with you. I am beyond pissed and on some level it seems pointless, but things can change.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Only a small percentage of the vote in the counties that decide Presidential elections would give whoever controls that small percentage a considerable amount of bargaining power.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)I'm a communist of the Trotskyist variety. I don't have any hope that the system is built to help me or the working class. That clarifies your options.
Not Sure
(735 posts)Too many days I feel greedy for thinking Obamacare and getting out of Iraq isn't enough compared to indefensible stances on the NSA and TPP and feet dragging on Gitmo and Afghanistan and Keystone XL. I argued with my right-leaning friends for years about how Obama wasn't going to take their guns away or allow the US to fade into irrelevance as part of the UN and that he'd be a better steward of the environment and economy than McCain or Romney or whatever psychopath Republican they supported, but it's pretty damn hard to defend some of this shit. Yes, the nightmare would be worse with a president McCain or Romney, but I HOPED we were going FORWARD toward something other than an Orwellian nightmare. That sadly appears not to be the case.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)BelgianMadCow
(5,379 posts)because indeed, those feelings have been played, on a grand scale. Fear, for example.
The mass psyche has been manipulated to segment not just the market, but the people as well.
So you get the "free" choice between brand A and B, both the same products from the same company with a different wrapper on it.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Been here when you haven't been here through the whole thing.
Can't disagree with anything you say from your "out of the fray from time to time" observances..
Can agree with you from what "I see," from being here for a long while too...is worth a look...because many of us who've been here throughout these years...probably have the same take on the situation we are faced with and reflecting backward doesn't give us much comfort.
QUOTE FROM YOU:
Bill Clinton, for example, could have been a Great Liberal President who helped the nation recover from the excesses of Reagan Trickle Down Economics and guide us back to the REAL CENTER. But even though he talked a good game, he was every bit as much of a Corporate Stooge and Snake Oil salesman as Reagan. He managed to cram down such atrocities as Media Deregulation and NAFTA/Free Trade down our throats -- which gave the oligarchs even more power and helped gut the poor and middle class.
The Democratic Congress has been a mixed bag. There are (have been) some great Democratic liberal and progressive legislators, who have done all they could to bring the country back to some kind of true center. But they have been outnumbered by the sellouts and/or wimpy weasels and the minions of the DLC.
Presidential Obama? Like Clinton, he talks a great game. And maybe he means well. But behind the screen, he has been just as aligned with Wall St. and the Big Money Corporate oligarchs...People say he's doing the best he can under difficult circumstances. I don't know. Maybe. But too often his actions and alliances seem to be just as embedded in the oligarchy as any other DLC style phony centrist Democrat.
kentuck
(111,103 posts)We have missed your excellent posts.
In the interim, I have become even more cynical about our government. My cynicism will be complete when, once the midterm elections are over, the Keystone Pipeline and the TPP will both be approved by the Congress and signed by the President, knowing full well that it will turn over once again the reins of government to the Republican Party, as Democrats point their fingers of blame at each other and we rinse and repeat through one more cycle of insanity.
pacalo
(24,721 posts)I must say, though, that I do like Obama; I think he's a good man who is outmatched by the power of the corporatized system.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I am still foolish enough to believe that Democratic leaders who actually stand for clear liberal principles and fight for them would actually do well politically too.
It would be refreshing to see someone try it.
pacalo
(24,721 posts)There are more of us "little people" in multitudes than there are of those who create policies that work against us. Those with the fortitude to stand up to the corporatism would undoubtedly be exalted by the people in many ways. Give Americans a more equal footing to succeed in life & this country would be undeniably great.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)Before signing in I see their usual pre-written crap espoused at every post, then I sign in and... BOOM! They are gone. DU would be so much more constructive in building a real democratic party with them gone.
go west young man
(4,856 posts)they are holding this board back and keeping us from moving forward in a truly progressive manner. This is what happens when something once good and left of center becomes mainstream. It gets watered down. We need harcore progressivism out front and these ridiculous trending cheerleading posts need to go away from the front page. This site should be about progressive issues and electing democrats that represent getting those issues implemented. DU needs to be redefined in regards to what it stands for. It's turned into not much more than a chat room.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)I feel like we're standing on a beach trying to push back against a tidal wave with our bare hands. It's obvious how well that's going to work out.
The fucking Owner Class ain't going to stop until they've destroyed the world and everything trying to live on it. The best we can hope for anymore is some mitigation on a local level if we're lucky enough to live in a place where not quite everything is corrupted yet.
I'm 64, I've been watching everything go from bad to worse for most of my adult life. As far as I'm concerned, the die is cast. We're fucked. "They" - the ones with the money and power to do whatever the hell they want - have won. The common human, the ecosystem, the fish in the sea, the animals of the wild, the bees, the air, the water, the soil have lost.
There's nothing left but sheer survival. We're not going to stop it, the best we can do is retreat and try to make a life under the radar as best we can.
I'll still vote, because what the hell, it's not like it's any kind of a big deal at all. I just won't bother with holding on to any hope or faith that it might change things. It won't. I'm not going to stand on the beach holding my hands up hoping to stop the tidal wave. I'm going to retreat to safer ground and hold my loved ones close.
OhioChick
(23,218 posts)
ChromeFoundry
(3,270 posts)
russspeakeasy
(6,539 posts)
deutsey
(20,166 posts)I still vote, for what it's worth, but I've put most of my focus on trying to keep myself true to the values I believe in and to express them in whatever way I can in my daily personal life.
I've worked for campaigns and done organizing, and like you, I've been disillusioned by the same results over and over.
Until a real movement comes along that actually advocates and fights for the things I value, I just keep burning the midnight oil alone.
johnlucas
(1,250 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 18, 2014, 12:23 PM - Edit history (1)
Why do people want to be LED anyway?
That's the inherent problem right there.
They expect someone they exalt on a pedestal to be concerned with the troubles of those on the dirty ground.
That's not realistic & never was.
There's 2 truths you must know about human beings.
#1: People are Selfish.
#2: People are Lazy.
And another truth is that Thank Goodness for #2 or there would be even MORE suffering on this planet from the hands of humankind.
Most people don't have follow-through & that probably protects us from the fallout of #1.
When people are selfish, people can be dangerous. That's what leads to evil. Putting self above all others always.
Energy is limited so people at most are not as destructive as they can be.
Most people don't have the energy & dedication to become the BTK killer.
Usually most people will do is spout nasty words at you or give you nasty looks.
Only with the energy derived from passion & the heat of the moment do you see people's nasty nature develop further.
That's why separation works best to defuse fights. Energy decreases & they're too tired to close the distance.
Without that laziness, you'd have more BTKs & Son of Sams running around.
Ambition is DANGEROUS when it is not tempered or offset by something else.
The truth is Laziness is a Virtue.
Those 2 rules apply to EVERY human being: me, you, & every other one of those 7 billion plus.
I'm gonna apply a 3rd truth to this maxim.
#3: People are Weak.
And THIS rule is the ONLY reason we have anything good in human society.
Our individual abilities are limited. You can only go so far with your 2 hands & 2 legs.
I don't care if you're a Mensa genius or the World's Strongest Man.
A baby is absolutely selfish from birth. He/she demands you put everything down to serve him/her.
But because babies can't really do much but cry really, we don't notice this seed of evil.
Once the baby gets more mobility & ability, that selfishness, that evil seed becomes MUCH more noticeable.
That's why they call them the Terrible Twos.
It is at THAT point that a baby must be taught to consider others with regard & respect.
Otherwise the kid becomes a monster. Lord of the Flies is real.
Akira Toriyama, the creator of Dragon Ball, got it exactly right when he made the Kid version of Majin Buu the most dangerous.
When we teach kids to respect boundaries all we're really doing is creating selfishness parallels.
Parents are just old babies who want the new baby to adhere to the old baby's selfishness.
Selfishness comes to a standoff between beings & we learn to perform exchange as things equal out.
The new baby has to respect the old babies' rules but the old baby promises to take care of the new baby's needs.
And it is a tug of war match of control all the way through as one selfishness collides with another selfishness over the years of both "babies" growth.
Weakness, the lack of power, the inability to do something, forces us to come to parallel with each other.
It forces us to exchange favors & services with each other creating the social fabric.
The more powerful an individual becomes within a group, the less incentive a person has to want to come to parallel.
They can wall themselves off in their own little bubble & ignore the needs of the others.
This is what privilege is all about.
When we exalt, raise up, pedestal-on-high an individual over us, WHAT IN THE HELL DO WE EXPECT???
There HAS to be a weakness tying that person's needs to the needs of the others or they just won't GIVE a "flock"!
Those who we push up on ivory towers to lead us DO NOT & CANNOT relate to our lives.
Their existence is totally different than ours, their day-to-day interactions are totally different than ours, & they will become different than us because of it.
That's why it's hard to make friends with people too far out of your economic class.
That's why it's hard to make friends with ANYONE too different than you.
We NEVER grow out of our own selfishness really.
It only becomes tempered & offset thanks to laziness & weakness.
If we relate to anything outside of ourselves, it is only because it reminds us of ourselves.
That's why a jackrabbit named Bugs Bunny walks upright on two legs, holds his carrot with his opposable thumb, & talks.
That's why each & every alien in the Star Trek series is some variation on a humanoid.
The aliens of the Alien series repulse us BECAUSE THEY DON'T remind us of ourselves. They look like roaches.
Even though Self is most important to any person, Self Outside Of Self will also get due consideration.
This is why the parent/child bond is the hardest to break (each child is 50% of each parent, a literal Self Outside Of Self).
This is why the Family/Friends bond is the second hardest to break (True Blue Friends are in effect Chosen Family AKA Physical/Ideological Self Outside Of Self).
This is why the Social Circle exists.
The Elite have reached parallel with each other. Ultimately they want it all for themselves alone but they agree to share & exchange power amongst each other because they recognize themselves in each other.
In effect this causes them to see the other human beings outside of this circle as NOT human beings.
We got 2 legs we walk upright on, 2 hands with fingers & thumbs, we can talk, but we're not really PEOPLE.
That's why the words Employee, Worker, Servant, Serf, Taxpayer, Constituent, Soldier, Defendant, Plaintiff, Citizen, Commoner, Layperson, Perp, Inmate, Parolee, Consumer, Demographic, Dependent, & many others like that exist.
We are considered FUNCTIONS not PEOPLE. We are FUNCTIONS in a social/mechanical/political machine designed to serve the selfishness of some overpowered old babies.
We become the 3rd type of human relationships: Service to Self.
This is erroneously called a Lovers' Relationship & erroneously thought to only deal with intimate/sexual relations between people.
It should be called a Lusters' Relationship because it is all about "I want, I want, I want".
Lust does not always concern sexual matters, remember that.
You remember terms like 'a lust for adventure', 'a lust for life', right?
This is the weakest human relationship because it is always one-sided. There's no equal exchange going on.
One person spends his/her life, time, & energy in service to another without much return for the favor.
Once the serving person has fulfilled his/her usefulness, that person is unceremoniously discarded & ignored by the one he/she served.
You're just a tool, you're just a function.
This is how those who lead others & are exalted above others will begin to see those not like them.
If they have no connection to you & they are made more powerful as you use your power to exalt them, they will not recognize you as more than a mere function of a machine.
Why in the hell do we expect this reality to change just because we can supposedly pick our leaders?
Good in society is ALWAYS MANUFACTURED.
Good in society is ALWAYS MANIPULATED.
It is a complex TRICK to get people to come to parallel with each other & exchange the favors that make sure that EVERYBODY'S needs are taken care of.
There has not been ONE, NOT ONE society on Earth then AND now, that has mastered this trick yet.
That includes the supposedly United States of America.
With every Revolution on Earth it seems that we only trade one set of bad leaders for another.
We're never gonna get what we need depending on a leader.
We must somehow manipulate not just American society but EVERY world society to see Self Outside Of Self up & down the line.
We must realize the fiction of national borders & see each other as an Earth society.
We must become Family, familiar with one another. We must have ties with one another to ENSURE that we stay family.
We must counter & offset not only our own inherent selfishness but make it fashionable for OTHERS to want to do the same.
You're not gonna get it on an individual basis. You need numbers. Lots of numbers of people doing the same thing to stand a chance.
But remember that People are Lazy so you will have to find a way that this can be done EASILY with as little energy given as possible. That or you must find a way to energize people for a constructive purpose (much harder to do).
Media is a great way to have people come on board with a message without spending too much energy.
Yes, it comes down to marketing. You gotta sell it. It must hit emotions over logic because people ain't really logical.
Any advancement we ever got in this miserable existence on Earth was because it was manipulated into being.
Elite means Few & physics is always a numbers game. They're too weak to do it by themselves without others' help.
They're too weak to keep it TO themselves without others' help.
If enough old babies who come to parallel with each other outnumber another set of old babies who came to parallel with each other, the smaller set of old babies will either give up some of the MINE MINE MINE to soothe & placate the bigger set of old babies...
...or they might just include the bigger set of old babies inside their circle.
We think we did good when we got the New Deal in 1930s. Hahahahahahahahahaha!!
Man, that was just a bribe! That was a token of concession. Those old babies just gave up a little piece of the MINE MINE MINE.
Once they gave you a few toys from their playpen, you walked away satisfied while they still kept most of the toys.
Those things were conceded to cool down a Revolution.
Same thing happened with the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s.
They knew if Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Native Americans, Women, Gays, Peaceniks ever started seeing themselves on the same page, they would come for the toys in the playpen.
They defused a potential revolution by conceding legal civil rights for Blacks.
Neither time did we get what we were supposed to get.
If we can't achieve the best solution that I outlined earlier where all people on Earth recognize Self Outside Of Self with every other, then we just gotta do second best & force concessions from that small but exalted set of old babies.
It's simple physics. One needle isn't gonna scare a bed of needles.
But one blunt massive block will scare the hell out of that needle bed.
A massive blunt block can hammer down those needles, those nails.
Pinning all hopes on one leader is fighting a bed of needles with one single needle.
And it's easy to lose needles between your fingers.
Betcha won't lose that block so easily.
The hardest part is only in building that block.
Think deeply about what I just told you here.
Barack Obama is not gonna save us & neither is Elizabeth Warren nor Hillary Clinton nor even Bernie Sanders.
Only US will save US.
John Lucas
