Reports: 3 boys assaulted girl before her suicide

[theHandpuppet]

Reports: 3 boys assaulted girl before her suicide
http://news.cincinnati.com/usatoday/article/4504359

SARATOGA, Calif. (AP) - Three teenage boys have admitted to sexually assaulting a 15-year-old Northern California girl who later committed suicide after photographs of the attack were circulated to classmates, according to published reports...

...In September, two 16-year-old boys admitted in Santa Clara County Juvenile Court to participating in the sexual assault and possessing photos of the girl, Audrie Pott, the newspapers reported, citing documents and other sources. Both crimes are felonies...

...The boys' names have not been released, but two have been ordered to serve 30 days -during weekends- in juvenile detention, and the third was sentenced to 45 consecutive days. That is in stark contrast to the maximum 10-year sentence they might have received as adults...

...Audrie Potts hanged herself on Sept. 10, 2012, eight days after attending a party at a friend's house in Saratoga, Calif. After drinking Gatorade laced with alcohol, she fell asleep and later woke with her pants off and with lewd comments scribbled all over her body....

[sufrommich]

1. Sigh....

Again and again and again.

[Orrex]

2. Yeah. 30 and 45 days sounds about right.

[theHandpuppet]

3. I guess that's how much a girl's life is worth in this country

http://www.feminist.com/antiviolence/facts.html

[get the red out]

5. You know boys will be boys

and if girls complain they"re sluts.

[meegbear]

14. But ... but ... but ... this'll ruin their weekends ...

isn't that enough punishment?

[riderinthestorm]

44. And their budding football careers (yes, this is AGAIN rape by student athletes!)

They also had more pictures of naked underage girls on their phones

The new court records also indicate that two of the boys -- months after Audrie killed herself but before they were arrested in April 2013 -- were found with additional photos of naked girls on their phones. Both boys admitted to extra felonies of possessing or controlling sexual photos of girls under 18.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_24913022/audrie-pott-boys-admit-sexually-assaulting-saratoga-teen

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2314374/Audrie-Pott-Boys-accused-sexually-battering-sharing-photos-girl-committed-suicide-released-house-arrest.html

[Le Taz Hot]

4. So, they're learning this shit from somewhere.

My questions is, where? Somewhere along the line THREE of them got the message it's OK to assault a girl. They were so OK with it they took pictures and broadcast them to their friends. This tells me that they and others think this behavior is perfectly OK. My questions is, how does this happen?

There's an unprecedented violence against women in this country via video games and "music" (where women are "bitches" and "ho's&quot . Is this where it's coming from? Is it the parents who aren't teaching their sons to respect ALL humans? What? What the hell is happening here? I truly want to know.

We put down India and their roving bands of males who rape, torture and kill women, but we seem to have the same culture here. In India the excuse is that "there's not enough girls." What's the excuse here?

[99Forever]

6. Wow.

"We put down India and their roving bands of males who rape, torture and kill women, but we seem to have the same culture here."

Over the top hyperbole much?

Do you seriously think that this kind of nonsense is helping to communicate this important message?


Really?

[Le Taz Hot]

15. So, you think this is a matter of degree?

No, it's a matter of thinking the only reason women exists is to be a receptacle for men's penis. Period. And if they can't get consensual sex it's perfectly OK to FORCE themselves on a woman. And the thing is, ANY one of those men could have said, "Stop! This is wrong." But no, they joined in, THEN they broadcast it to their friends who they obviously thought would also find this amusing. SOMEWEHERE along the line in these douchbag's minds, it's OK to sexually assault a female. This isn't an isolated incident. There are stories about this type of thing all the time on DU which is only a tiny fraction of the number of these types of occurrences.

My VERY SIMPLE, straightforward question, which I notice you didn't even attempt to answer is, "How does this mindset remain?"

The fact that you think this is hyperbole says a whole lot about you.

[99Forever]

16. Why are you asking me?

Do you think I have some magical power to change criminal minds into solid citizens?

So WTF is it you would have me DO?

And what your over the top, militant, broadbrush accusatory, bitter words are doing, is alienating those that would be your allies. Obviously, that doesn't seem to matter to you.

Carry on.

[theHandpuppet]

17. I didn't understand your first slam at Le Taz, much less the second

"Over the top"? "Militant"? "Bitter"?

Really?

[redqueen]

23. You left out "broadbrush accusatory".

To some people here, the issue is less important than the words used.

A few insist that we can't count on support here, that we have to campaign for it, and persuade them to care about changing society so that girls and women aren't subjected to the epidemic rates of rape, abuse, and murder.

That attitude speaks volumes, IMO.

[seaglass]

47. For me personally - I don't want support from those who put conditions around it. What, if I don't

use the correct words you won't object to violence against women? Who needs allies like that?

[99Forever]

91. Excellent.

We are in agreement then. You continue throwing out generalized sexist accusations and I'll continue to see you as the hater you are. No support? No problem. Consider it done.

[redqueen]

117. What are you refusing to support

based on you not liking the tone of some posts on DU?

[niyad]

123. oh, my. . .HOWEVER will we bear up under the weight of your disapprobation????

[BainsBane]

141. all the while claiming to be our "allies"

[Squinch]

145. And jumping directly to "This is all about ME! Why are you bothering ME?" Amazing.

[Le Taz Hot]

18. I asked the question in my original post.

It was just out there for anyone to attempt to answer. You replied to the post, but instead of offering up answers you made me your target by suggesting I was engaging in hyperbole. In other words, the focus became me and not the issue.

Now you're doing it again by using the same old tactics used since time immemorial -- attempting to turn the focus on the questioner as opposed to the problem.

I'm also amused that you think it's ME who went after YOU. Classic.

Carry on.

[Katashi_itto]

19. +1000

[Heidi]

38. What did Le Taz Hot post that was "militant"?

Please quote it.

On the other hand, the boys in question certainly were militant in that they used strong, extreme and forceful methods to impose their will on the girl in the article. Is there anyone here who would argue that sexually assault is not extreme or forceful?

From Merriam-Webster:

militant
having or showing a desire or willingness to use strong, extreme, and sometimes forceful methods to achieve something

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/militant

[theHandpuppet]

50. Yeah, I didn't get it either...

Bizarre.

[Heidi]

81. I swear. Seems like "militant" has become a sexist dog whistle for

"woman expressing a view on DU."

[bettyellen]

107. Right you are. We are all "rad fems" for trying to post @ women's issues GD.

[Starry Messenger]

120. They know they'd get banned if they use "feminazi", though the tone is identical.

But there are no msogynists on DU!

[Squinch]

146. And "broadbrushing" is "DU woman suggesting that bad things sometimes happen to women."

Because some men are immediately insulted by that suggestion.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

56. you don't sound like you ever had any intention of being an ally.

You sound like a third grader: "I WAS gonna be your best friend but now I'm not!!! And it's all YOUR fault. Nyaaaah!!!"

Can't say any more. Everyone else who replied to you already said it all.

[lunasun]

151. +1

[niyad]

62. again with the "tone"?? we have to express our outrage, our horror, in soft, pleasing, soothing

tones over the horrific war on women carried out all around the world so we don't offend or alienate people? REALLY?? you won't be our allies if our TONE does not suit, regardless of the truth of the words? REALLLY??

what would we have you do? for starters, stop with the bs TONE argument. acknowledge and admit that there is a war on women, a rape culture, everywhere, and stop saying you will act if our TONE is exactly right.

Sister Militant
AiC, PHD remdi95
Blessed Order of The Sisters of Perpetual Outrage

[theHandpuppet]

64. Objections are allowed only if delivered in a ladylike manner

Sheesh... it's like the freakin' 60's all over again.

[niyad]

67. oh dear, and to think I flunked those classes

[theHandpuppet]

70. Where's that fainting couch when you really need one?

"I have bursts of being a lady, but it doesn't last long."
--Shelley Winters

[niyad]

112. found a great one at the thrift store a couple of weeks ago!! alas, already had a sold sign.

loved shelley winters

[theHandpuppet]

154. She was a helluva woman

Now that was a lady with guts.

[Le Taz Hot]

74. See my sig line.

[theHandpuppet]

77. Ha-ha! Good one!

[bettyellen]

82. You think you're an ally? Then why is discussing the prevalence of gang rape

A problem? Do you have any idea how common it actually is in the USA? Look up some stats and get back to us- with a big apology. Educate yourself, and stop threatening to take your ball and go home.
The truth hurts women a hell of a lot more than it can ever hurt you. Get over yourself. There's a lot more than your bruised feelings at stake.

[99Forever]

96. I quoted the problem.

Reading is fundamental.

[bettyellen]

104. No, you attacked someone who was discussing the problem. As you can see, no one believes you ever

were an ally- not for one minute. So take your ball and go home, and stop wasting our time.

[bettyellen]

109. Oh dear, do you have ANYTHING to contribute at all here? If no, them go away as promised.

[bettyellen]

111. You said you wouldn't be an ally. So where does that leave you? Not belonging here.

It's pretty simple. Women here have explained to you that have no intention of toning it down to make you happy.
So, go ahead and abandon us, as promised. I thought we all agreed that was for the best.

[99Forever]

113. So what are you? Thread Gatekeeper?

I'll post as I please.

[bettyellen]

116. and you lose a bit more credibility every time you do. we are so hurt you lied about ditching us..

but since you want to stay, please do enlighten us why you have such a volatile reaction to women discussing the epidemic of rape in this country. Did you know 25% of reported rapes in the USA are gang rapes/ multiple perps?
Wow, how do so many rapists find each other so they can rape together? Thoughts?

[bettyellen]

125. NO. You accused a poster here of hyperbole when it came to gang rape. And threatened to withdraw

your support" for feminists because TONE. None of this is very original, nor is your refusal to engage anyone on the topic or your BS assessment of someone's "militant" tone. A half dozen people disagreed with you, and asked for clarification, and you declined. No straw anywhere.

And you "battle" ? Really? LOL, GROW THE FUCK UP. This is a thread about a violent heinous crime, not the X-box set up in your basement. You are upset people are too upset about a gang rape? Then yes, you should leave as promised.

[99Forever]

128. Carry on.

Same shit, different post.

[REP]

131. Your self-awareness has suddenly become quite acute

Same shit, different post indeed. Yet you keep on doing it.

[99Forever]

133. Aren't you special?

I'm ever so crushed by your opinion.

[JI7]

92. you are no more an ally than Todd Aiken and the rest of that bunch

[99Forever]

95. Who the fuck is "Todd Aiken?"

And why should I care?

[niyad]

121. let's see--you have been registered here since 2011. you are posting in a thread on RAPE, and

you claim not to know who todd aiken is, or why you should care? Seriously? you have just demonstrated that you do not have enough facts to attempt to hold an intelligent discussion of this horrific subject.

google is your friend, as I hope aiken is not.

[bettyellen]

130. In what context Charlie? would be a smarter answer, LOL. I'm sure you read "all the papers" too.

[yardwork]

98. This type of post does your point of view no favors.

What you're doing is attacking a commentator in an effort to distract from the actual incident. Why would you do that? Are you an attorney for the rapists? Are you a family member? Why would you distract from the rapists and blame commenters?

[yardwork]

103. Just another anonymous commenter like you.

[99Forever]

105. Really?

Then precisely how is it you pretend to "know" my intentions and motives and ignore the words I actually wrote?

I don't recollect ever even conversing with you, let alone telling you a freakin' thing that you just pretended I did.

[BainsBane]

142. You expressed outraged at the use of the phrase

"gangs of men roaming" rather than at the gang rape, shaming, and subsequent death of a young girl.

[niyad]

122. oh, my, we actually understand you very well indeed. this is not the first time we have seen this

kind of attempt to derail a conversation about a very serious and horrific subject, and it seems to annoy you that we do understand.

but keep trying to claim we are reading and/or comprehension-challenged, or whatever soothes your ego. frankly, I need the laughs.

[bettyellen]

129. he is here to "do battle" LOL… lost on the way to the neighborhood arcade? ran out of quarters?

[niyad]

136. we have a penny arcade here, if that would help.

[bettyellen]

114. great question- why does this poster find discussing rape to be- personally- their problem?

seems like it could be hitting too close to home on some level. since he derailed the thread to focus on his feelings, maybe we should examine them in depth.

[MadrasT]

153. If you would portray that comment as "militant"

YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

[theHandpuppet]

155. Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner.

[AtheistCrusader]

24. Can you clarify your objection?

It looks like a couple posters, including the person you replied to, didn't honestly understand.

I'm not exactly sure either, if you are objecting to bringing the problems in India into it at all, or the conflation/equation of outright murder, to suicide, etc.

The details might not parallel, but there is certainly an element of 'glass houses/casting stones' there when the US finger-wags at India, when 1:4 US women experience sexual assault at some point in their lives.

(* Koss, Mary P., and C. Gedycz, and N. Wisniewski. "The Scope of Rape Incidence and Prevalence of Sexual Aggression and Victimization in a National Sample of Higher Education Students." Journal of Consulting and Clinical psychology. 55(1987), 162-70.)

[Le Taz Hot]

36. I know your reply was to 99

but can I just jump in on the part where you say "conflation/equation of outright murder, to suicide, etc.?

I thought I stated it pretty clearly that the base problem is that these douchbags feel women are nothing more than a receptacle and if the receptacle isn't willingly receiving it's OK to take what they want. Whether it's rape, beating or murder, the problem is with some men thinking that it's OK to use these women for sex, control or to take their rage out on. Women are DISPROPORTIONATELY victimized. My original question was, "How do we change that?"

[AtheistCrusader]

75. I agree, but there is at least some delta between

the outright murder of the victim, as in the headline-grabbing incident from India, versus this, wherein there was at least a chance of law enforcement intervention/some level of justice, but the victim chose suicide. That suicide could well be a indictment of how the media handles these horrific attacks in the US, where the victim is put on public opinion trial, or publicized for personal details beyond all reason, where the perpetrators actually get off light, which I'm sure seems like sort of a second rape by yet another power beyond the victim's control.

So, I agree, but I think the direct contrast was problematic.

I have no idea how to change this. I don't believe in the death penalty, and I am certain that even THAT wouldn't change it, if it was applied to these crimes. There is something fundamentally sick with our society on a broad level, and it does not lend itself to 'solving'.

I can teach my son. I can make this an issue. Make sure he understands. Beyond that... what can I do? What can my legislators do?

I don't know.

[bettyellen]

140. the Danish tourist was not murdered, and the connection between her story and this suicide is gang

rape, specifically how we can point the finger towards (and admit there are cultural roots in) India, but are loathe to admit any problems here.
Despite this story, Stubenville (and how many other- three I think?- teams just this year?) and several underage girls suffering from group attacks… many people deny there is a cultural problem here at home and wish to believe american rapists are lone wolf psychos.
Hope that helps!

[AtheistCrusader]

149. Ah, I see, I was thinking of a different case in India.

I was thinking of the December 16th attack, wherein the victim died of internal injuries.

I agree, there is a perception of the 'lone wolf' in the US, but it's often a group effort/binge party/group or shared assault, at least in the headlines these days. We definitely have a problem, and shouldn't be casting stones over it.

[bettyellen]

150. It's super unfortunate here that when we discuss the cultural problems that cause

rape to happen, to be under reported and difficult to prosecute- it often causes more outrage (and derailing of threads) than the crimes ever do with some posters. A few seem to take the issue very personally. Someone on this thread *very angrily* asks what we want him to do about it. A bizarre reaction.

It's kind of crazy, because you do not have to look back all that far in our own country's history to see that the cultural problems, especially victim blaming, etc, was a lot worse than it is now, and that things are slowly getting better. We are not in a good place yet. The lone wolf/ stranger thing is somewhere at 20-25% right now, and 60+% happen in the persons own home/ with people they knew- so a lot of the messages we get about prevention are just useless.
It would be great to have a convo about it without getting attacked and telling us there is NO problem or there is nothing to be done because "psychos will be psychos". The minute we remind people these rapist were regarded as "nice guys" and no one expected this from them, things go off the rails. Somehow we'd love to believe the victim "should have…." something.

[chervilant]

43. Over the top hyperbole?!?

Nonsense?!?

Contemporary research reveals that 54% of college age men admit they would rape a woman, if they were certain they wouldn't get caught!

You might want to ask yourself why you get all defensive about discussions of rape culture. You might benefit from watching the documentary "The Bro Code."

[DragonBorn]

59. Do you have a cite for this?

I've seen this stat posted a few times but it's almost unbelievable. I did some searching and found a similar stat that says 35% of college aged males would commit rape if they thought they could get away with it. This came from the Campus Advocacy Network from the University of Illinois.

I still find that number hard to believe and would like to see more information on the study and how they conducted the survey, how the questions where worded, and when this was conducted but I'm not sure that 54% number is correct.

EDIT:

I did some more research and found most of the citations from the study I quoted are from 1988 - 1993. So I would assume things are better now and that these stats are now outdated at they are 20+ years old.

[chervilant]

86. Thank you for expressing an interest in this data.

The quote is directly from the documentary, "The Bro Code." I highly recommend viewing this documentary.

[DragonBorn]

88. I'll try to catch it tonight.

Thanks.

[yardwork]

99. Why do you assume that things are better now?

I'm curious as to why you think that there is less of a rape culture now than in the 1980s.

[Lunacee_2013]

159. I would hope they're better now!

54% or 34%, either one is way too high. Great, now I'm worried because my youngest sister just started college last semester. She still lives at home though, so I hope that cuts down on her risk.

[BainsBane]

134. Over the top?

How is it different? A gang rape led to death, one of many that have been in the news this year. I fail to see how the nationality of the perpetrators matter. The crime is the same.

[awoke_in_2003]

138. "Over the top hyperbole much?"

No, not much at all.

[aikoaiko]

143. You should probably just stick to antagonizing the gungeon crowd.

Its play as well when you antagonize DUers concerned about women and girls.

[malaise]

13. 10% correct

Sadly the internet and video games are glorifying violence but not only against women.
That said both the internet and video games glorify and promote.

[Beacool]

27. They are learning it from social media.

Technology is a great thing, but it's a double edged sword. Kids are seeing things posted on the internet and they too want to try them (the "knock out" game comes to mind).

Kids want to be cool. The problem is that technology has far outpaced the maturity and sense of responsibility of children. They are still too young to sort through all the information overload and make a mature decision. Kids nowadays are being bombarded with information 24/7.

[Le Taz Hot]

33. "Kids want to be cool."

Right there. Why is it "cool" to assault women? It was that way for centuries before social media although I think things like songs in which women are referred to as "bitches" and "ho's" certainly solidify those views. There has GOT to be some way to change this. I'm not suggesting anyone here have THE answer but we at least have to open a dialogue. There HAS to be intelligent, sane, workable answers as it sure as hell can't continue as it is.

[theHandpuppet]

37. Why is it cool?

Because these kids are bombarded day and night by celebs and an entertainment industry making their millions from the exploitation and degradation of women. And too many women are part of that, as sickening as it may be.

[Le Taz Hot]

42. I come from a time when the women's movement was strong

and could affect sorely-needed changes. Of course that was a threat to the Big Boys so we were relegated to feminazi status and the media went right along with it.

We desperately need a resurgence of the women's movement of the 1970's (updated to fit 21-century issues). We're the majority in this country, for goddess sake, there's no reason we shouldn't be LEADING the way in bringing light to women's issues.

Not sure how old you are but you're right, too many women even back then were fighting us on these issues -- basically, aiding in their own (and every one else's) repression.

[Beacool]

48. When it comes to politics, Democrats are better than Republicans, but not by that much.

Evidence the sexism during the 2008 election. Both Hillary and, loathe to admit, Sarah Palin were subject to rampant sexism by both sides.

People who do not share the same views as female politicians use their appearance as a way to denigrate them. Go to any RW site and read the comments on Hillary, Michelle O., Pelosi, etc. Unfortunately, our side is just as sexist. The comments on women like Palin, Bachmann, etc. are equally as appalling.

It seems to be a male thing, regardless of party affiliation.

[theHandpuppet]

51. Old enough to remember the old fights in the 60's and 70's.

It seems to me -- and I hope I'm wrong -- too many young women today have either no knowledge of or are simply apathetic to the battles we had to fight for women's basic rights. Yet here we are again, so many decades later, still in a pitched battle for reproductive rights, for example. Look how many times, on a daily basis, women here on DU have to defend the importance of equality for women and their reproductive choice and just how many of the people we have to confront are other women. It's shocking and disheartening. Too many have digested the message that our rights must take a seat at the back of the bus.

[Le Taz Hot]

58. Then you know what I'm talking about.

I am also one who doesn't understand how we managed to go BACKWARDS. Somewhere along the lines our message of empowerment was lost. I think we desperately need another strong women's movement. The problem is, I'm old and I did that already. I am SO ready to follow where they lead but I just don't see many younger women stepping up to the plate.

[theHandpuppet]

63. Yep. I'm in the same place.

You've summed up my feelings pretty darn well. Also, it's one thing to battle an intrinsically misogynist establishment for our basic rights, but to come here to DU and have to battle for them and find yourself having to defend women's rights even to other women is so damned discouraging.

[Le Taz Hot]

65. I'm thinking this might need a seperate thread -- asking younger women

why they think the women's movement doesn't resonate with them. I think I'll do that.

[theHandpuppet]

68. That would be great

I would be really interested in some feedback from younger women here.

[niyad]

132. did you ever watch the pbs doc "makers: women who make american" 3 hours, well done.

http://www.pbs.org/makers/home/

[Le Taz Hot]

135. I haven't but I will now.

(OK, after I get back from picking up the Espoused One from work.) I'm looking forward to watching it. Thanks for posting.

[niyad]

127. I am old enough to remember that fight, and my naive belief that we could effect serious change.

I remember far too well the women who fought against their own interests (phyllis schlafly being one prime example. had several interactions with her).

I remember one woman I encountered when I was a delegate to IWY-- she was a delegate from montana, but most definitely reichwing, and heartbroken because "nobody likes me" at this conference. looking at her buttons, I said, "you stand against everything we are fighting for. what are you even doing here in the first place? what do you hope to accomplish?" she mumbled something and walked away.

[Squinch]

156. I agree with you up to a point but I strongly believe that this issue of rape does NOT originate

with women, and men have to get off their asses on this.

As Beacool said, and I think accurately, this makes them look like alpha males to their friends, and it is cool.

It is cool because we still have that culture of the alpha male. And that is not a women's issue. That is an issue about how men talk to each other, and the expectations men have for each other. The alpha male is alpha because other men look up to him, and he can exert power over them.

The whole definition of "alpha" equals the exertion of power. Women, I think, are only peripheral in this. In this world view, the men jockey for position, and the men who win get many women, along with other commodities.

When women are a commodity whose consumption adds to the alpha status, that is a recipe for rape. (See Steubenville: alpha males feeling entitled to having women as commodities, other men - coaches and teammates and boosters - allowing and facilitating.)

Men need to change the way they mete out respect among themselves. They need to find some other paradigm than the exertion of power as the benchmark of status among men.

I know that many men will read this and say, "I don't do this." But we all know scads of men who do. And we have ALL seen groups of men where this elevation of the alpha male defines their behavior. (Look in any boardroom or sports team or middle school classroom or little league game.)

[davidn3600]

158. But the perception is that "alpha-males" is what women are attracted to

All you have to do is watch any Disney movie to see what I mean. Or look at most other hollywood movies. They are LOADED with gender stereotypes.

Im not saying this is necessarily true to reality. But this is the culture and the stereotypes that boys are raised in. I can't tell you how many times guys have said to me that "girls only like bad boys" or "girls only care about a guy's money/power." and that sort of stuff. That perception is out there and very strong with men in general. Overall, it lowers the way men view women. Women are viewed as sort of a motivating factor for the patriarchy. The more successful or more alpha you are, the more wealth you get, and therefore the "hotter" girl you feel you are entitled to (sort of as a prize for your accomplishment).

[Squinch]

161. Who makes Hollywood movies? Who makes Disney movies? By and large, it isn't women.

It is not women who are attracted to alpha males, it is men. The women I know IRL are not going for the alpha male.

There is a small subset of women who see men as a means to an end, who intentionally seek out men who have power. These women work hard to embody all the standards that men's competitive culture requires as fitting rewards for alpha men. These women are probably as numerous among women as alpha males are among men - a small fraction of the whole.

It is again men, not women, who legitimize the behavior of this small subset of women, by choosing these women when they "win the game" among men and become alpha men. The term "trophy wife" is instructive here. You get trophies after you have won the game.

And yes, there are men - I would argue men who have not achieved much maturity - who see the dynamic of the alpha male, who they have elected, getting the "hotter girl", who is hotter by standards that their relative immaturity has defined. They see these women they designated as "hot" going to the male they designated alpha male, and conclude that all women want an alpha male.

And yes, I would agree that this dynamic lowers the way these men view women, but their annoyance is really annoyance at the fact that they are not winning the alpha male sweepstakes among their fellow men.

Again, this does not originate with women. This originates with the election by men of the alpha male, and those men's definition of what constitutes women who are "hot" enough to be fitting rewards for that alpha male.

Women may be viewed in these circles as the motivating factor for the patriarchy, but those circles are kidding themselves, or are not looking logically at their own actions. If women were the motivating factor for the patriarchy, men would only compete over women. Women are the door prize in this kind of male competition. Power is the goal.

And yes, I totally agree: "This is the stereotype that boys are raised in."

Until the 1970s, girls were raised in a stereotype that said the only work they should aspire to was bearing children and cooking and waxing the floor. They were raised to think their bodies were for the benefit and use of others, and it was their fault when those bodies were abused. Their mothers and sisters were usually the most powerful conveyers of these messages.

Then women got their shit together and changed the stereotypes that women were raised in. Men, and a small subset of women - generally those who benefitted from the male hierarchy of power - fought back hard against the changes, and some continue to fight back hard to this day.

Men could not have instituted the changes to the stereotypes women were raised in. It would never have worked. It had to come from women.

If men are being raised in destructive stereotypes, which I believe they are, don't you think it's time that men got their shit together and stopped that? Redefine the qualities that men look for in a worthy leader, and redefine what men consider "hot" among women, and life for all of us will quickly get a lot better.

[davidn3600]

163. What about Elizabeth Hasselbeck?

A lot of it comes from the right wing, though. You got people like Elizabeth Hasselbeck on Fox News saying feminists and "wussy men" are a national security concern. Or Brit Hume blaming feminism for why "real men" like Chris Christie are viewed as bullies.

I hear this a lot by conservatives folks. They say Obama isn't man enough and they constantly compare him to Putin. A female candidate will have an even tougher time than Obama had breaking through that mentality. There are a lot of people out there (male and female) who feel we need to have a strong male figure as president in order for other nations to respect us.

This is a good article too...

In a recent survey, 51% of Americans told the Pew Research Center that children were better off if their mother was at home. Only 8% said the same about fathers. Even seeking time off can be troublesome for men: One University of South Florida study found that college students rated hypothetical employees wanting flexible schedules as less masculine.

Other research points to an enduring stigma for boys whose behavior is seen as feminine. "If girls call themselves tomboys, it's with a sense of pride," said University of Illinois at Chicago sociology professor Barbara Risman. "But boys make fun of other boys if they step just a little outside the rigid masculine stereotype."

Two years ago, for instance, a Global Toy Experts survey found that more than half of mothers wouldn't give a doll to someone else's son, while only 32% said the same about giving cars or trucks to a girl. Several studies have found that bending gender stereotypes in childhood is tied to worse anxiety for men than women in adulthood.

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-one-way-gender-revolution-20131227,0,7169949.story#ixzz2qsuHx6K5


Society values masculinity far more than femininity. Equality doesn't exist as far as that's concerned. Im not saying it's the fault of women by any means. But women do play into it as much as men do. Mothers wont have much concern for their daughter playing with boys toys. But she'll want to bring her son to the shrink if he starts to show interest in girls toys.

[Squinch]

164. Seriously? You are letting Elizabeth Hasselback decide what you think about yourself?

None of what you have posted has much to do with what I wrote. Instead, you are listing other people's opinions that forward the ridiculous notions of masculinity.

Do you think that in the 70's there weren't tens of thousands of commenters who were saying that a woman's place is in the home? But nevertheless, women were able to get their shit together and change that idea.

And no, women don't play as much into men's behavior as men do. Men decide how they will behave. Men who insist on blaming women for their behavior need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

[davidn3600]

165. Men dont feel oppressed, there is no pressure to change

If the patriarchy is putting men and masculine behavior as superior, there isnt going to be much pressure for men to change that just so that it benefits women.

The attitude society has is that if women want to "be like men," than that's fine. But men are not going to change their behavior since masculinity is perceived by everyone to be superior, stronger, and closer to the human ideal. There was another tread on here this past week of DUers saying that the "alpha male" is the ideal person. Those are DUers that think that! Progressives.

You are saying that men should all get together and work to fight the male stereotypes the way women got together and fought against female stereotypes. It's not the same thing. Women were oppressed for a very long period of time and did not have equal rights to men. And it's also my argument that the vast majority of those female stereotypes still exist. Feminism has not be successful in that regard. Look at the way women still slut-shame each other. Or is that the fault of men as well?

[Squinch]

166. *sigh* Have a nice night.

[davidn3600]

167. We are not going to get anywhere until you admit men are not the only part of the problem here...

"When you are an independent woman with lots of responsibilities, many men assume that we want to carry out that strong role all the time. But I need to feel like a woman, and times I enjoy that most are when I am with a man," Johnson wrote. "If I am being honest with myself, being a woman means -- to a degree -- being passive. And that requires a man who is -- to a degree -- the alpha."

Johnson talked more about her dating preferences on HuffPost Live Thursday, and noted that many woman are afraid to admit that they want an alpha male.

"We feel so afraid to acknowledge that we have this inherent need to be with manly men. We fear that we're going to give up some of our power," she said. "I like to be with agressive men, alpha men who are strong in this world and strong with me one on one, but that doesn't mean I want to give up my right to vote or that I choose to earn less than a man in the workplace. "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/26/what-women-want_n_3166256.html

That's the problem there... And this woman is NOT alone in that belief!

And now you are asking men to stand up to change that? This is the reason a lot of men display that behavior. Men think women want to be treated that way.

[Squinch]

162. David, check out this OP:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101683214

It's coming from another direction to describe the destructiveness of the messages men give each other, and it's a description of one way those messages, and that alpha male mentality, ruin men's lives.

[Beacool]

46. Because it makes them feel like the Alpha males in front of their peers.

At least that's one of the explanations given as to why there have been so many gang rapes in India (the latest victim is a 51 year old Danish tourist who got lost on her way back to her hotel and asked directions from a group of young men).

As to why some boys/men rape? Because they can, and many times, because they get away with it.

I took a human sexuality class in college. I remember how sicked I was about the results of a study done by another university.

The study had asked male college students whether they would force a woman to have sexual relations against her will if they knew that there would be no negative consequences, legal or otherwise. The depressing result is that 48% said yes. These were the future professionals; doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc.

[Le Taz Hot]

49. Well then somehow we need to change the method by which

these guys determine the alpha male other than subjugating women. And 48%? Ugh!

As an aside, as I've been replying to some of these posts it's becoming clearer than ever that we desperately need a resurgence of the women's movement. Every right that we've ever gained has been by fighting for them. I would say fighting the institutionalization of rape culture is an excellent place to start.

[redqueen]

53. It's always been there, in some form or another.

Songs like Hey, Joe, Lightning Strikes, Down by the River, Run for your Life, etc. etc. ad nauseam.

That's just music. Then there's the law, which condoned marital rape until just a few decades ago. (And still some men act as if that's somehow ok.) One might posit that the increasing violence against women is partly due to a backlash against the progress women continue to make in becoming equal with men.

Misogyny is very deeply ingrained into every facet of society.

[Locrian]

60. 2000 years

2000+ years of dominator culture that ranks men over female. Not just male/female but the cultural system of domination (associated with 'male' aggression) over partnership (associated with equality or 'female' partnership).

Feudal, monarchy, capitalism, religion, communism etc are all dominator systems - with aggression and ranking of one group over another. The cultural values - winner takes all, dominate and control, etc all come from it. Along with crap like this that see it as basically 'why not?' because aggression and 'strength' (physical not mental) make it 'ok'.

[redqueen]

76. Yes, hierarchical power structures are a fantastic way to ensure the system keeps going.

Promise almost everyone they'll have a little power over someone else, and greed and self-interest do the rest.

[Le Taz Hot]

61. Now THAT is significant:

"One might posit that the increasing violence against women is partly due to a backlash against the progress women continue to make in becoming equal with men."

And, unfortunately, we, as a gender, seem to have responded by backing off for fear of being labeled "feminazi" or "shrill" or "hyperbolic." I want to think that, as all social movements, the women's movement experiences ebbs and flows and that, at some point, will enjoy a resurgence.

[redqueen]

71. It's already started.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/10/fourth-wave-feminism-rebel-women

And the number of young, engaged, informed radical feminists just keeps growing. It truly gives me hope for a better future for all of us.

[Le Taz Hot]

72. I am SO happy to see this!

Thank you so much for posting.

[sufrommich]

73. The Every Day Sexism Project linked in that article

is interesting to read too.

[redqueen]

79. That project did so much.

So many women thought there was no point complaining. Or not with any expectations that anything would ever change.

So many women thought they were 'making a big deal out of nothing' by speaking out about harassment.

So much has changed since then, and is still changing for the better.

[niyad]

137. periodically, time magazine runs an article (frequently headlined on the cover) with the breathless

(and oh-so-hopeful) question, "is feminism dead?" to which my response always is, "not so long as I draw breath". I am old enough, battle-weary enough, cynical enough, cranky enough, not to give a damn what names I am called (actually, did not care when I was young, either)

my favourite response to being called the usual names: a puzzled, "but.. . you say that like it's a BAD thing", or, "and your opinion should matter to me, WHY?"

[Lunacee_2013]

160. Just read a post about a republican,

I think his name was Dick Black, who pretty much said married women can't get raped by their husbands. 'Cause, you know, if you said "yes" at the alter, then that means you said "yes" to every single sexual encounter your husband wants to take place. That whole view on rape in marriage just screams "I think wives are the property of their husbands". Yup, even today, even in America, some men view all women as objects, really nothing more than an extension of their fathers, boyfriends, or husbands.

Could that be part of the problem? Society viewing women as not fully human, never really belonging to themselves, but always belonging to a man, be it a father or a husband? Couple that with the images of women in the media, so called "slut-shaming" (I really hate using that term), the excuses (I was drunk, she was wearing revealing clothing, boys will be boys, etc.), and the pressure put on men to live up to some kind of "alpha male" stereotype (the more women you bed, the more alpha you are and alpha males don't care what others think, especially women and if you identify with women too much then you're a pu**y), its no wonder that rape is still a problem!

[Ilsa]

40. Parents aren't doing enough to monitor

their online connections with violence, IMO, and aren't teaching them to respect women.

I think assholes like the old Fox newscaster (Brett something) who make disparaging comments about Feminists and femininity help build the resentment in men who normally wouldn't give it a second thought.

I think La Taz's post is spot on. A one-in-four rape statistic in the US is shameful.

[JI7]

90. i think it's always been there but social media may make things even worse

also with social media you have people trying to impress and get attention from all those other people on the internet they don't even know.

[magical thyme]

87. the basic reason is the same in India and here.

Societal mysogeny. In India and other countries, the mysogeny is at such a level that female fetuses are aborted, or newborns abandoned.

Women are valued as sex objects and incubators for male fetuses. Once they are past child-bearing age they have no value.

[Drew Richards]

118. Le Taz...its not...unprecidented...its not increasing...take any time earlier 30 40 50 60 years ago

This has been going on in a significant portion of the young male population. Its now at least getting some coverage in the press...it used to be you got raped it was you that got shipped off to no better than a prison until the baby was born or a boarding type reform school, out of sight out of mind...

The sentence is a fucking joke...

Rape should have sentences equal to murder..after all when you rape it is the murder of a persons soul and it is near impossible to come back normal from that kind of little death...fuck em all castrate em now then throw their asses in prison for the next 25 to life.

[Mrdrboi]

126. Video games are not the cause of this.

The real source is....


Poor parenting. Who would of thunk....

[Squinch]

144. I was stunned in that last thread to learn that the rate of rape in the US is 17 times that of India

[Sheldon Cooper]

7. There is no rape culture!

[redqueen]

26. Nope, that's just "a HoF invention".

[Sheldon Cooper]

83. Yeah, it's just something us mean girls came up with in our spare time.

[TreasonousBastard]

8. No excuses for what they did, but...

really, what do we do about it?

First problem is that it happens. Dumbass shit guys have been doing this sort of thing for years, but who's come up with a good way to stop it before it happens? I've seen a lot of warnings to girls about what could happen and what they shouldn't do... But who's talking to the guys about not doing it? And making them believe it enough that they still believe after beer balls and spiked Gaterade?

Long sentences? Sounds good at first, but after 10 years of prison brutality they are let back out into the streets in their mid-20's with no job, no education, and years of criminal training? Doesn't sound like a plan.

[Brickbat]

12. You hit on it, actually.

Talk to boys about it the way we talk to girls. And give people who say "but then how will I know if she wants sex? It's so haaarrrrrrd to figure out!" the response they deserve -- a long, loud laugh in their faces.

[Xyzse]

52. I actually agree.

Still the short sentence is just a slap on the wrist.

I completely agree with your mentioning about long sentences, because it only encourages recidivism.

The thing is, the message has to be done from grade school to middle school. Once in high school, it is a bit late.

[yardwork]

100. First we have to admit that there is a problem.

If we as a country agree that we have a problem, that's the first step toward finding a solution and then implementing it.

[Zorra]

124. We can't even get many progressives to agree that sexualization, objectification,

and dehumanization of women are real problems. They are very real things, and have very real impact on both girls and boys.

One thing we can do about it is at least admit that these things are real problems, rather than denying their existence and subsequently not permitting more solutions to these problems to go forward, so we can eliminate some of the "dumbass shit guy" attitudes toward women to stop the manifestations of violence towards women that sexualization, objectification, and dehumanization of women can lead to.

Cyclical dehumanization and abuse of women in the home is very likely a large factor in why many of these "dumbass shit guys have been doing this sort of thing for years".

Sexualization

Objectification and dehumanization of women and men

Dehumanization (or dehumanisation) describes the denial of “humanness” to others and is theorized to take on two forms: animalistic dehumanization, which is employed on a largely intergroup basis, and mechanistic dehumanization, which is employed on a largely interpersonal basis.[1] Dehumanization can occur discursively (e.g., idiomatic language that likens certain human beings to non-human animals, verbal abuse, erasing one's voice from discourse), symbolically (e.g., imagery), or physically (e.g., chattel slavery, physical abuse, refusing eye contact). Dehumanization often ignores the target's individuality (i.e., the creative and interesting aspects of his or her personality) and prevents one from showing compassion towards stigmatized groups.[citation needed]

Dehumanization may be carried out by a social institution (such as a state, school, or family), interpersonally, or even within the self. Dehumanization can be unintentional, especially on the part of individuals, as with some types of de facto racism. State-organized dehumanization has historically been directed against perceived political, racial, ethnic, national, or religious minority groups. Other minoritized and marginalized individuals and groups (based on sexuality, gender, (dis)ability, class, or some other organizing principle) are also susceptible to various forms of dehumanization. The concept of dehumanization has received empirical attention in the psychological literature.[2][3] It is conceptually related to infrahumanization,[4] deligitimization,[5] moral exclusion[6] and objectification.[7] Dehumanization occurs across several domains, is facilitated by status, power, and social connection, and results in behaviors like exclusion, violence, and support for violence against others.
snip----
Fredrickson and Roberts argued that the sexual objectification of women extends beyond pornography (which emphasizes women's and men's bodies over their uniquely human mental and emotional characteristics) to society generally. There is a normative emphasis on female appearance that causes women to take a third-person perspective on their bodies.[20] The psychological distance women may feel from their bodies might cause them to dehumanize themselves. Some research has indicated that women and men exhibit a "sexual body part recognition bias" in which women's sexual body parts are better recognized when presented in isolation than in the context of their entire bodies whereas men's sexual body parts are better recognized in the context of their entire bodies than in isolation.[21] Men who dehumanize women as either animals or objects are more liable to rape and sexually harass women and display more negative attitudes toward female rape victims [22] In pornography male actors are dehumanized through the suppression of their facial expressions, identities and personalities, and objectified through emphasis on their bodies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization#Objectification_and_dehumanization_of_women_and_men

[Triana]

9. Excuse ME? *30 DAYS?!*

I'm sorry but these little psychopaths are MURDERERS and ought to be charged (and convicted) of 2nd degree murder. As ADULTS.

[Baitball Blogger]

11. I thought I was the only one that noticed that.

They should be psychoanalyzed and forced to take sensitivity training.

[cinnabonbon]

10. These cases are so tragic

and the short sentences the boys get just rubs it in.

[Katashi_itto]

20. These guys need to be doing 20 plus years.

Would like more, but the system being what it is.

[cinnabonbon]

84. Agreed.

We need to take crimes like this seriously, as opposed to what we do now.

I hope that what they did will sink in. I hope it will eat at them for the rest of their lives.

[Half-Century Man]

21. I think we need to reform the way we incarcerate juveniles.

No more sealed juvenile records, at least for certain crimes (for example rape, murder, arson).
Some sentences should be able to transition to adult corrections upon reaching 18 (or 21), and continuing for a few years.
And the housing, environment, schooling, mental health care of juvenile incarceration needs to be built around rehabilitation and not revenge.

[Beacool]

22. Society has become a cesspool.

There's one attack after another of gangs of boys attacking girls. What's worse, sometimes other girls participate in these attacks. It crosses all races and class barriers. It's also happening in other countries.

What kind of children are we raising? Why do so many boys think that it's a cool thing to sexually attack a girl, take video or pics of the deed and then "slut shame" her by posting said videos or pics all over the internet?

Also, what the hell is wrong with their parents? So many of them make excuses for their "babies". If a boy of mine did that, he better hope the cops get to him first.

[theHandpuppet]

25. "But he's such a good boy"

Wish I had a nickel for every time I heard that sorry line.

[AtheistCrusader]

30. Every time I hear that BS line...

Have you seen the movie Megamind? When Will Farrell's character is falling at the beginning, and monologing about his trip to Earth, and asking if he's destined for greatness and glory, as his ship approaches a wealthy family's mansion, but then says "APPARENTLY NOT!" as his ship gets knocked off course into a prison?

That 'APPARENTLY NOT', volume, tone of voice, all of it... I want to yell that in people's faces every fucking time they cut that stupid 'he was such a good boy' excuse.

[get the red out]

55. That's the way I feel

NO, these kids are not good kids. They should not be able to take a month out of their lives and continue on as normal. This girl is dead because of what they did to her.

I believe the parents of these boys should be taken to task also. They at least need to be put through the legal wringer enough to be humiliated for raising their sons to be rapists.

[Beacool]

39. Parents are responsible for their home of the environment.

Ask any teacher and they will have nightmare stories about some parents. Going by how they act, it's no surprise that their offspring comes out as they often do.

Obviously I'm not saying that all these kids had dysfunctional upbringings, but a lot of them do.

[redqueen]

29. Dehumanizing women comes with a price. When Hefner declared that "women are sex objects"

feminists should have united against the wholesale objectification of women.

Instead, we fractured, and now here we are. Most people agree, men and women, that women are sex objects. That is why this shit happens so much. Not just rape, but all kinds of bullshit along the spectrum which involves treating women and girls as prey. As things. Girls face sexual harassment starting in grade school. We all know when it started for us out in public. It's also the reason for the light punishments, the victim blaming, treating women as liars, etc.

We have to change society to stop this.

[chervilant]

54. You might be interested in

this video. I think you might also want to view the documentary "The Bro Code."

[CrispyQ]

66. I wonder how many girls participate out of fear that they may become the next victim

if they don't?

Yes, our culture is a cesspool. I don't know how one raises decent human beings in this culture.

Ditto on your last sentence.

[AtheistCrusader]

28. Not going to blame porn overall here but I would point out

There are genres of porn that depict some or multiple overlapping elements of the total scenario that unfolded here. Purposely degrading, dehumanizing shit.

I don't think it's the cause, I think it's a symptom, as it wouldn't exist without demand. So, what can we do to eliminate that demand?

Can one even criminalize *depicted* behavior that would be criminal if it weren't deliberately acted out fantasy? I highly doubt that approach would work in courts.

[theHandpuppet]

31. That's a really tough question

I've thought about what you posted on many an occasion and to be honest, I have no idea how to approach the problem and you're right -- I don't think any proposed "solution" would hold up in court.

[kag]

32. How about this for punishment...

The three boys have to allow their genitals to be scribbled on and photographed, and then circulated around their school, available for everyone to upload and keep forever.

This just breaks my heart. There is a picture of her at the link. Her poor parents have to be devastated.

[godevil10]

85. Given the intelligence and attitude of a lot of

today's youth, they would probably think it funny and brag about it and point their friends to the pics.

[Shandris]

89. I was going to say, if you think this will be considered a punishment for them, you need to spend...

...a bit more time around these little miscreants. That would be a mark of pride and, both paradoxically and infuriatingly, would increase their likelihood of being around more girls.

The first key to breaking this sort of mentality is to recognize that they -do not think- the same way we do, and things that bother us or horrify us are things they find amusing and desirable.

[NuclearDem]

34. A 15 year old girl is raped and driven to suicide

And two of the bros who did it don't even have to spend their bullshit 30 days in a cell consecutively.

Fuck this. Jane Doe, Lizzy, Daisy, Rehtaeh, Audrie, and all the girls who haven't come forward all deserved better than this.

[Adrahil]

35. This SERIOUSLY pisses me off!

When the F^&* is this culture going to start valuing girls!?

[marions ghost]

41. What creeps

--they deserve so much more jail time. I hope the parents' lawsuit brings some sort of justice.

Monsters. More and more of them being raised.

Reflects a sick society.

[riderinthestorm]

45. These boys had pictures of other girls without their clothes on, on their phones

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_24913022/audrie-pott-boys-admit-sexually-assaulting-saratoga-teen

The new court records also indicate that two of the boys -- months after Audrie killed herself but before they were arrested in April 2013 -- were found with additional photos of naked girls on their phones. Both boys admitted to extra felonies of possessing or controlling sexual photos of girls under 18.

So I would guess there are other victims here who haven't been identified yet.

I'd bet this isn't their first offense. Audrie Potts probably already knew about those others which was why she was so despondent ("my life is over&quot and refused to communicate with anyone about it.

[get the red out]

57. These little monsters

And apparently no one cares very much what they are doing to girls. At this point I guess they just had to give them a slap on the hand. Probably didn't want to.

[polly7]

69. Another sad, tragic loss.

I don't want to derail your thread, but something I just heard (and have been seeing on tv for the last few weeks) has got me wondering, does your gov't put out PSA's re the issue of sending these pictures and videos and passing them around? Although it's a no-brainer for most people already, it's actually quite a powerful minute or so stressing that parents and kids realize it's a possible crime under Canadian law, and features teens going from happy and partying ... playing on their phones, to sitting, terrified, in a police station.

I wish they would do more on the actual issue of rape itself as the UK did last year.

[shenmue]

78. Lord have mercy!

[CrispyQ]

80. Who raises these monsters?

We need to redefine masculinity in our culture, but I have no idea how to even start.


My heart goes out to that young girl & her family.

[theHandpuppet]

93. I'm curious to know about their home life

Perhaps that would provide some clue as to why these young men thought rape was a fun thing to share with friends.

[Solly Mack]

94. Damn.

They basically got away with it.

[theHandpuppet]

97. Yep.

Imagine how that girl's family must feel.

[KamaAina]

101. I do not believe I will be voting for the DA

who failed to charge these miscreants as adults.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

108. i am never ever visiting california. never taking such a risk.

[polly7]

115. I thought that thread ended up pretty unfairly categorizing a whole nation, too. nt.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

148. just so you know, i said that to make a point. i love california

[polly7]

152. I understood, and it was a good point.

Makes me sad to see a whole group or nation of people blamed for the acts of some, no matter who or where. I've never been to California but hear it's beautiful.

[niyad]

139. Audrie's Law

Audrie's Law, which Allard said will be introduced in the Legislature this month by state Sen. Jim Beall, has four key points:

• Sexual assault involving penetration of any kind would become a felony for both juveniles and adults.

• The judge would be given discretion for serious crimes to disclose a minor's name and records publicly. The juvenile would be listed as a sex offender, which would give parents and school administrators the right to know the juvenile's identity.

• Equal protection under the laws relating to sexual assault would be afforded to unconscious victims.

• It would be an automatic felony to disseminate photographs depicting the commission of any sexual assault.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/16/girl-assauled-suicide/4504359/

[flvegan]

147. Fucking human mongrels.

Offspring of shitwad breeders who don't know how to raise their young. Yeah, I know "this post is offensive and over the top" whatever alerters.

I remember being 16. Not once did I ever consider doing anything like this and if any of my peers had, I reckon I'd have beat the shit out of them.

If you admitted the wrongdoing, then somewhere in your mind you knew it was wrong from the start. Precious little predators doing 30 days DURING WEEKENDS (oh, the horror!).

Fuck you. No, seriously, I say it again you little fucking monsters, fuck you. Fuck your parents, fuck your genetics and your bloodline's inability to have empathy. Fucking end this bloodline before it infects the rest of the world.

And I swear to God if anyone says "boys will be boys" I will lose it. Infection, end it.

[Lunacee_2013]

157. Does this shit ever end?!

It seems like there's another one of these stories every week. How many more girls have to get hurt, have to get thrown away like trash, have to die before the people who think that sexual harassment/assault is no big deal finally wake up?

On edit and after reading some posts up-thread: I can't believe some people are trying to make this story all about them. A girl killed herself after being sexually assaulted FFS! Who cares about tone, or about sounding hyperbolic or radical, or how any particular post makes you feel. You should always be against rape and sexual assault, no matter what. Hell, I hope everyone here gets extremely pissed off at stories like this one! And maybe it's just my "radical" feminist self showing, but this case just isn't all that different than the ones we've been hearing from India.

[AverageJoe90]

168. It almost seems like a fucking time warp.....

back to 1864. 45 days? Are you *fucking* kidding me!?!?!? Shoulda been the full 10 years, if not more.