It's argued that plastic bags can't be banned because people won't wash reusable bags

[CreekDog]

...and thus will be in danger from bacteria growing in them.

Of course, those arguments are combined with the arguments that bags won't pollute if people dispose and/or recycle them properly.

[RC]

1. People don't clean their useable bags.

I've seen some pretty scuzzy bags on the grocery check out counter, being filled with food. It is enough to make me find another check out line.

[Liberal_in_LA]

31. I've started to wash mine.

[RC]

47. Thank you.

Some people even let their cat(s) play with the bags between trips. I am allergic. I don't need to get that on my food.

[madinmaryland]

2. Where?? On Fox "News" ??

[Viva_La_Revolution]

3. cloth bags suck

they don't hold much and are hard to keep open while filling. I like the giant plastic ones. they stay open and hold a ton. wipe em down with bleach water if they get dirty.

[laundry_queen]

56. I liked those too

until this winter when they got cold and fell apart. They basically shattered in the cold, LOL.

I'm thinking of making my own cloth bags that are washable. You can sew them with interfacing to make the fabric stiff so they will stand up better and stay open when you fill them. I may splurge and buy some off etsy if I'm lazy. I'm tired of the 'recycled' black ones that fall apart in the wash. I haven't had 1 of them get through more than 2 washes. Luckily, I get them for free from my bookstore on campus (you should get free bags after what they charge you for textbooks) so I have plenty of new ones sitting around. But I'm going to need a new source since I graduate this year, LOL.

[piratefish08]

67. yup - we bought a few of those when we lived in Switzerland 8 years ago and still use them weekly

to this day. built to last and they hold a TON of stuff.....

you couldn't find disposable plastic shopping bags anywhere over there and that was almost a decade ago.

[Codeine]

4. Your food is packaged, people.

Your produce is bagged up, and if it's not you're supposed to wash that shit anyway. Are people pouring a box of Cheerios and a gallon of milk in their bags and making them into giant cereal bowls?

Talk about a non-issue. Grocery store shelves hold your food too, and those aren't cleaned with any particular frequency or fanaticism. What about the employees shelving them, or the customers handling your stuff before they put it down? What about the cart? what about the counter?

Goofiness.

[tosh]

7. Thank you!

I thought I was going to have to type all of that myself.

Seriously!

[grasswire]

9. produce isn't packaged.

At least not where I shop. Many people do not bag their produce. Then it goes along the checkout belt where other people have plopped their reusable bags. Ugh.

I see people at the bus stop set their reusable bags down on the sidewalk, where other people regularly spit their mucous, and where dogs walk and buses spray water from the gutter. Those bags also go onto the checkout belt.

[Codeine]

11. You're supposed to wash your produce, though.

It's got field dirt, grime from the picking and processing farm equipment, pesticides, bug poop, mouse poop, and farm laborer sweat on it. Plus the germs of whatever dirtbag was picking through the apples or cilantro before you got there and whatever is built up on the produce display case. If you're already willing to eat that then a bit of canvas-bag-goop isn't terribly significant.

This whole bag thing is indicative of a populace who doesn't quite grasp that the world is not sterile. The nastiness on your canvas grocery bag (I prefer the resuable plastic bags from Trader Joe's because they stand up and have nice graphics) is probably pretty mild in the grand scheme of things.

[gollygee]

41. +1

Like the produce in the store is clean before it gets in the bag. I don't think a dirty bag is making it much dirtier. It needs a good clean regardless.

[Fumesucker]

13. You know that cart you push around the store and put your purchases in?

The person who used it before you had a kid with a dirty diaper sitting in it.

Sweet dreams.

[athena]

14. And someone else put a chicken there, in a leaky package.

Over 70% of chicken is contaminated. See: http://aem.asm.org/content/67/12/5431.full

For some reason, no one is arguing in favor of disposable shopping carts.

[Warren Stupidity]

40. I'm beginning to think this thread is becoming an Olive Garden moment.

[Maeve]

64. Which gave rise to the sani-wipes at the store's entrance

Fan a fear, exploit it, make money. repeat with new fear

[Retrograde]

17. And a lot of the produce I buy is full of dirt

especially spinach, lettuce, and celery. And root vegetables - they grow in dirt! So I was them before I eat them, like my mother taught me to. So, yeah, it's not one of my big worries.

BTW, have you ever driven down US 101 through the Salinas Valley? Much of the lettuce eaten in the US is grown here, right off the freeway. On most days, you can see people harvesting and boxing it in the fields. I doubt they're trying to be unsanitary, and conditions have improved a lot in recent decades, but after seeing people throw produce on trucks, which I don't think are cleaned as often as supermarket bins or belts, I make sure I clean it myself.

[FSogol]

21. Pssst. Don't tell everyone what mushrooms are grown in.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. Is a shit statement.

[FSogol]

62. LOL n/t

[GoCubsGo]

15. Thank you!!!

This subject came up a year or so ago. I pointed out that I don't eat out of my bags. Somebody actually had to spell out exactly what you just wrote to the folks who got their shorts in a wad over that. Still shaking my head over that one.

[Warren Stupidity]

20. We save time by never unpacking.

We prepare all our meals in our re-usable cloth bags, strap them on like a feed bag, and chow down. Then we take them right back to the store for more.

[Codeine]

24. Properly layered, one good-sized bag could hold a week of meals.

But I only truly respect raw-baggists -- you want to preserve the life-essence of your meal layers by not heating them over 140 degrees.

[Warren Stupidity]

25. We put the bag right into the crock pot.

Delicious!

[MrsMatt]

42. the image your post brought to mind

made me laugh so hard I started to cry.

[Warren Stupidity]

43. As long as you didn't pee, it's all ok.

[cynatnite]

46. I wish I could rec this!

[Beaverhausen]

5. I wash my canvas bags fairly often

and the plastic ones well, I guess I could rinse them out with soap and water but come on, it's not hard to use reusables!!!

[LisaLynne]

6. There are always "reasons" not to change. nt

[4now]

8. Some people store their reuseable bags

next to their cat litter box. Then bring them to the store next time they go.
Yummy.
Toxoplasmosis anyone?

[CreekDog]

10. what's your point with regard to banning plastic bags?

[Codeine]

32. I just take the catbox straight to Ralph's with me.

You can nestle a 12-pack down in the litter to keep the bottles from clanking on the way home.

[Warren Stupidity]

37. I bring the cats. The store is ok with it because of their rat problem.

[Codeine]

38. Killing two birds with one stone.

The pet store did not like that, let me tell you. The reusable bag I brought along failed to mollify them in any way.

Assholes.

[Shrike47]

54. Of course you take the cats. Otherwise, how will you know what they want for dinner?

[Warren Stupidity]

63. Oh well one of them doesn't want anything for dinner and the other one

wants to eat the entire planet.

[petronius]

35. I use mine to scoop the cat box, then I just dump the litter out of the bag

into the dumpster as I walk to the store. Of course, I give them a good shaking-out. Is there a better way?

[Codeine]

39. Five second rule.

Best to have a dumpster close to hand.

[Contrary1]

60. It's all good...

as long as it's the clumping litter. Now that clay stuff...it's harder to get out of a head of lettuce.

[athena]

12. Just as they don't wash their clothes

which is why we can't afford to have people wear reusable clothes. Everything must be disposable.

Indeed, it's the same way with gloves: we can't have people stop wearing disposable gloves all the time, since, if they did, they would never wash their hands.

I wash my reusable bags weekly. I've been using them for over a decade. I've only had food poisoning once during that time, and I'm pretty sure it had nothing to do with reusable bags.

[beaglelover]

16. I've used the same reusable grocery bags for 5 years at least.

Never cleaned them once. Never got a bacteria sickness from them. Don't intend on cleaning them in the future.

[RC]

48. Typhoid Mary didn't get sick either.

Not everyone has a cast iron immune system. At least not for your set of pathogens.

[LiberalElite]

18. I didnt' think

reusable bags were washable. That hasn't stopped me from using them. I have used various non-washable tote bags for many years. I hate germs as much as anyone but they're out there people! In fact, there's lots and lots of them just on our own skin: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/151852.php

After reading this, who's going to care about germs on a bag?

[curlyred]

34. We wash ours monthly

They actually wash up fairly well. Try it with one, first, and you'll see what I mean.

[Shandris]

19. We got rid of paper bags to get plastic ones.

Why are we getting rid of plastic ones? I haven't heard anything about this, so I'm not sure what the reasoning is...?

[CreekDog]

22. because plastic ones pollute

they are easily carried by the wind, they don't decompose and they create litter in the environment. they are ubiquitous.

beyond any problems associated with the paper bags.

and for that matter, though the paper will replace the plastic, each paper bag given requires a per bag charge, small, to encourage reusable bags.

[Shandris]

44. Okay, that seems reasonable to me.

I thought that might be the reason, but I'm starting to learn it's much better to ask. Also thank you to athena, who likewise answered.

The paper charge is something Aldi has done; I did notice that it was effective in getting people to bring their own and/or buy the 'refrigerated' ones Aldi has for sale, and that started...I don't know, 15 years ago? It was during the late '90's, at least. I think that's a good idea as well.

But people are afraid they won't be washed and that will cause sickness? Yah...that sounds like BS to me.

[athena]

23. Plastic bags cause lots of trouble in the environment.

They kill birds and turtles, and they clog waterways. Take a look at this:
http://environment.about.com/od/reducingwaste/a/no_plastic_bags.htm

Paper bags are not a good solution, since they're energy-intensive to produce. The best solution is reusable bags.

[Codeine]

26. As a grocer I fucking hate those damned things.

We spend many thousands a year on something that will be thrown away within a half-hour of us giving it to you, just so you can avoid bringing a larger, stronger, more environmentally-friendly reusable bag into the store with you.

I have to sell about six thousand dollars worth of groceries a month just to pay for the plastic bags that we'll needlessly hand out during that period. I find dozens a day in my parking lot alone -- people ask for something that they're going to dump twenty feet from the front doors!

[RC]

52. The grocery stores I go to in the Kansas City area ALL have plastic bags to haul your grocery's out.

The same thing in Bismarck and Fargo North Dakota. All the stores have plastic bags in the produce section and in the meat section.
And don't forget the bulk nuts too. Again, plastic bags.
When I was in Winnipeg, Canada, I found the same type of plastic bags available.

They are not thrown away either. People re-purposed them, for everything from wastebasket liners to conveniently hauling most anything that will fit in them, to putting kitty litter in when cleaning out the litter box.

I don't see plastic bags flying around in grocery store parking lots either.

[CreekDog]

57. i don't see them anymore, but i used to see them littering things

but my county mostly banned them from stores.

if you want a bag, you can pay them 10 cents for a paper one.

[nolabear]

27. I'v heard that and they do get gross but so far no Washington State deaths!

We haven't had plastic bags in Seattle for years. All the stores sell perfectly charming plastic/fiber/something grocery bags that people like so well they use them for all kinds of things. I spent an overnight in a hotel last year and I swear half the women there hauled stuff in them. And it was The Edgewater.

Never been sick. But it's not a bad idea to run them through the wash, which will certainly shorten their lives but is worth it.

I'll get around to it sometime, I swear.

[Codeine]

28. I use them to tote all sorts of shit around.

I don't view them as reusable grocery bags, but rather as 99¢ tote bags that just so happen to be for sale at Trader Joe's -- and are also good for groceries!

[nolabear]

29. One of the most godawful things post-Katrina was the plastic bags.

They. Were. EVERYWHERE. They float highest and so were (and I swear some still are) in the tops of the trees for MILES. It made quite an impression as to just how many of the things there are.

[Tikki]

30. Hey, repugs I know how to do laundry..this is a repug argument, usually candidates or polis with ...

ties to the plastic bag manufacturers.


Tikki

[Igel]

36. There was a neat study perhaps 5 years ago, maybe 10.

Just after bag-banning had backed off a fevered pitch.

The study looked at all the horrible wastage of petroleum on bags. But they realized that cloth bags weren't cost-free.

Then it looked at the cost of growing and producing cloth bags. Assuming some sufficiently large number of uses per cloth bag, the energy-resource effect was pretty much a draw.

Then they included the cost and energy/water resources for washing cotton bags. And plastic came out ahead. IIRC, they also came out ahead in terms of cost, not just energy usage. Cloth bags are cheaper now--probably millions are made per year--so their price is down. No clue which wins for cost these days.

They didn't include the reuse of plastic bags in their analysis.


The only thing left was the effect of plastic grocery bags not on landfills--which is minimal--but scenery and wildlife if improperly disposed of. The effect on wildlife was horrible in some cases, minimal in others, but had a nice emotional pull for some. What really gets people's craw in many cases is the effect on scenery. Most other support was a knock-on affect from the one-sidedness of the energy/cost analyses people see reported.

[quinnox]

45. plastic bags in stores got banned here, but at Safeway, you can buy them

They have nice big plastic bags for 20 cents each. I am glad they got around the banning by offering these, I hate using paper bags..

[freshwest]

49. Show the people who tell you that this:

And this:

Tell them they own this:

And to grow the fuck up.




I still use the same four PCC canvas bags I bought over twenty years ago. The stores have paper and plastic that are biodegradeable for items that need it. Most stores here don't offer a bag when you shop. And some offer cardboard boxes to carry things in to be recycled if the stuff exceeds the number of bags you have or need. .

[CreekDog]

50. thank you. that's what it's all about.

it's why the bag ban passed in my county, which is nearly completely bounded by an ocean or bay, was adopted. it's very important.

[freshwest]

53. I found the libertarian video with one of them carrying on against it. All government bad,,

don't tax me bro', more freedom! She had the same look as a member of the WBC, like they all do.

[liberal_at_heart]

51. I never could remember to wash mine or to bring them to the store.

Just had too many other things on my mind at the time and would forget. Sometimes I remember to bring a list to the store with me. Most of the time I don't, and of course I forget to buy certain items because I forgot my list.

[Indpndnt]

55. They're banned in Austin. Have been since last year.

Love the larger, stronger, reusable bags. Use them even away from Austin, but always have them in my car when I'm anywhere near the city, just in case.

[onyourleft]

58. I don't understand...

...what is so difficult about throwing them in the washing machine. That is exactly where mine go.

[CreekDog]

59. that's my point

some conservatives who say that we should allow disposable plastic bags because they say they are afraid people with reusable bags won't wash them and get sick from bacteria.

but if they took responsibility, and washed them, they would be fine.

but if they are saying people can't handle that responsibility, then they can't handle not littering with these bags and that causes harm to everybody, not just the person that can't be bothered to wash them.

by their standards, they should support bag bans, but they do the opposite.

[Cha]

61. Plastic bags are banned on our Island of

Kaua'i. We've learned to live with it. And, the Ocean loves it.

I just use my library bag which is a strong. durable. heavy plastic over and over again and is completely washable.

[pintobean]

65. We use the plastic bags

and recycle them. There are recycle containers for them in the vestibules at the grocery stores. The people who can't be bothered with that small effort screw things up for the rest of us.

[athena]

68. You realize, I hope, that plastic bags aren't recycled back into plastic bags?

In other words, each time you use a plastic bag, it's a virgin plastic bag. Same thing with plastic bottles. "Plastic recycling" is a misnomer; it should really be called "plastic down-cycling." Why do you think the plastics industry is so pro-"recycling"? It's because it makes people feel better about their plastic consumption, which leads to more virgin plastic being manufactured and sold.

"Recycling" is better than nothing, but it is not a solution to the problem. The way to reduce plastic pollution is through reducing one's plastic use. That's why people are using reusable bags.

[pintobean]

69. What difference does it make

if they get recycled into grocery bags or composite deck boards? They are being made into useful things, rather than going to a landfill.

[athena]

70. The difference is that more plastic is being introduced into the environment.

And plastic never goes away. There are only so many composite deck boards that are needed, and those don't last forever, either. Thousands of years from now, people will have to store the plastic we're manufacturing today. Does that not matter?

Not to mention it takes energy, petroleum, and natural gas to produce all that plastic.

[Bluenorthwest]

66. Not a good argument because so many places have already banned them, including my city

No plastic, the shops will sell you paper bag for a nickel, everyone uses reusable bags already, for months now.
China banned them in 2008, some town in the UK did it in 2007. It's already done, so arguing that it can not be done is beyond absurd.