“Why did they not stop the killings?” (Why was the three-hour rampage in Afghanistan not stopped?)

[morningfog]

“Why did they not stop the killings?”
Afghan villagers ask why a three-hour rampage was allowed to happen without any response from a U.S. base

ZANGIABAD, Afghanistan — Along the road to Zangiabad, where a U.S. soldier on Sunday murdered 16 innocent Afghans, including nine children, one destroyed village follows another.

* * *

“The shooting echoed through the silent night, and was without a doubt heard by the U.S. soldiers at the camp,” Mohammed said.

Camp Belambay is barely a mile from Mohammed’s house and, especially at night, soldiers on lookout can easily see and hear everything, he said.

“Why did they not stop the killings? These soldiers at the camp spy with expensive equipment on all that happens, from the ground and from the air,” he added. “It’s too difficult to believe that one of their colleagues could get away with this.”

http://www.salon.com/2012/03/15/why_did_they_not_stop_the_killings/

[hlthe2b]

1. How did the guy leave the base--who knew he left and why?

There are plenty of questions. Whatever the ugliness, it is going to have to be exposed--fully

[Gregorian]

2. Well, they didn't stop the killing of, what? a thousand men in cargo containers.

Not many people know about that one. That must have been 6 years ago or so. No mention of it in our so-called news media, except a documentary on Linktv.

[Comrade Grumpy]

37. That was during the original invasion back in 2001-2002.

That was our good buddy and ally, General Dostum.

You are referring to the Dasht-i-Leili massacre, and it could have been as many as 2000 killed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasht-i-Leili_massacre

[Wilms]

3. ^

[USArmyParatrooper]

4. Wow, just wow.

Pure absurd speculation. Why didn't they stop the countless number of elaborately placed roadside bombs that are successfully planted all the time?

Gee, because they can't possibly know what's happening everywhere all the time?

And even IF they knew it was happening when it was happening the time it takes to get a QRF force even outside the gates is more than enough time for one man to kill 16 people.

[EFerrari]

5. If it takes them three hours to move, they're useless. nt

[USArmyParatrooper]

6. If he was killing people for 3 hours

There would be a lot more dead people than 16.

And you forgot to address the rest of my post.

[Bluenorthwest]

10. Depends. Do you know that he was not seeking specific targets? Lots of kids and

women. Do we know that it was a 'rampage' and not a check list? I think it would take some strong information to make the asking of these questions anything less than the local people's right and our duty as Americans.

[USArmyParatrooper]

12. The fact that it was indiscriminate makes my point.

In 3 hours the amount of people he could have killed is only limited by how much ammunition he had with him (a standard combat load is 210 rounds), and how many people he could find.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. He killed in at least two houses, in different areas of town. He passed many other

houses. That does not indicate indiscriminate action at all. You present no fact at all. Sorry. How do you know he was not targeting specific people or families? You do not. You simply don't.

[USArmyParatrooper]

14. I read your post mean YOU were making that claim.

So that was a misunderstanding.

I am in total agreement with you about needing facts to make claims. I eagerly await your post denouncing people implying the US military knew it was happening, when it was happening and did nothing - with no facts at all.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. The local people hold all rights to question the US Military, and to deman answers.

Sorry. The history allows them great latitude to suspect the worst. The asking of questions is their right, and as American citizens we must also demand the full truth and justice done.

[USArmyParatrooper]

17. Of course they do.

And the American people have a right to know exactly what happened as well.

What I'm referencing are people accusing them of knowing about it, or saying "they had to know" with no facts at all. You're free to do it, but again it's reckless and irresponsible.

Also, being that the accused is pending a general court martial there is a limit to what can be talked about.

[riderinthestorm]

7. Are gunshots common in Afghanistan?

I'm not trying to be facile, I just know that in my rural neighborhood, people shoot shit. Parties. Sometimes they are even hunting in the wee hours of the morning towards dawn.

Is it common in Afghanistan for there to be gunshots for weddings or celebrations? Or do they hunt nearby?

I freely confess I have not been a soldier, nor do I have any ideas one way or another. Just trying to figure this out.

Furthermore, to ask another (probably dumb) question, is it possible this soldier was some kind of scout or local contact person for the region? And that's why he was let out of base without question?

[USArmyParatrooper]

11. I've done two tours in Iraq.

But I haven't yet been to Afghanistan. I can tell you without question that it's impossible to know what's happening all the time. In Iraq hearing gun shots is a regular occurrence, and I assume it's the same in Afghanistan.

It's reckless and irresponsible to throw around accusations like the US military "let it happen" without strong evidence.

[riderinthestorm]

19. Thanks for your input. The nature of his killing troubles me - like he was killing in certain

locations, almost like he was doing this as some kind of planned action.

The US' refusal to release his name. Plus his high rank and the fact the US has flown him out of the country have my alarm bells going that he may even have been some kind of covert agent? Is that too far fetched?

I figured the gun shots were probably a normal nocturnal sound in that region. Just wanted confirmation. thanks.

Edited to add I have two nephews who are currently serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'd ask them but well, they are a tad bit out of contact with their old aunt....

[USArmyParatrooper]

22. He wasn't really that high ranking.

He's a Staff Sergeant, which in an infantry platoon would be in charge of about 8 guys.

They won't release his name until charges are filed. There's nothing crazy covert secret agent crap going on. It's just a tragedy and the guy will never see freedom again.

[riderinthestorm]

27. Okay, thanks. Just trying to consider any possibilities.

Honestly it sounds as though the combination of his former TBI and his 4th tour of duty sent him over the brink.

What a tragedy

[Taverner]

8. I don't know

I would like to know

[NutmegYankee]

9. Maybe because it's really dangerous after dark?

Maybe because this is one of the most heavily Taliban infested regions and there could be ambushes and traps setup all along the route?

[white_wolf]

16. I would like to know as well.

I would also like to know why the murdering piece of trash hasn't been turned over to the Afghan government. It was their people he slaughtered, he should be tried in Afghan courts.

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. Sounds like you're in definite support of the death penalty, with some cruel and unusual punishment

thrown in just for good measure.

Do you believe that an individual, after having suffered traumatic brain injury, is capable of statutory murder? Because it sounds to me like you do.

And you can't tell me you don't know in your heart that after being tried, this guy would be beheaded after some pretty heavy duty torture. I'm pretty sure that's what they do to "murdering pieces of trash" in Afghanistan, ESPECIALLY if they're American servicemen or women.

[white_wolf]

21. The Death Penalty should be abolished.

But if I were to commit a crime in a foreign country I would be tried according to their laws and so should this guy. It's a matter of respecting national sovereignty. If I were to go to Russia and kill someone, I would be handed over to Russian courts and tried according to Russian law, its a simple as that. You don't get to slaughter innocent people in a foreign country and be expect to be tried by your own country's laws. You face courts of the people you slaughtered. And, the guy is a murdering piece of trash, anyone who murders women and children is a terrorist, no better than the people we are supposedly fighting over there.

[cherokeeprogressive]

24. Traumatic brain injury isn't a mitigating factor? You've already decided that?

[white_wolf]

26. If he had traumatic brain injury why was he allowed to carry a gun?

He should have been sent home so something like this didn't happen. Look, maybe I'm wrong that he should be handed over to the Afgan government. If he does have some mental illness,then that should be taken into account. I'm just furious that this occurred, we should not even be there. I'll think more on this and get back to you, because I may be acting too hastily.

[cherokeeprogressive]

28. He suffered traumatic brain injury in a non-combat vehicle accident in Iraq.

He should never have been there is right.

I'm terribly sad this happened. SOMEONE should answer for it, and that person, I believe, should be whoever allowed him back into a combat situation in the first place.

[SammyWinstonJack]

30. +1. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. Sorry, our military only takes responsibility for glorious victories..real or imaginary.

[Honeycombe8]

23. Obviously, if the military had heard, they would've stopped it, assuming they knew what it

was. The story I read was that they discovered the guy missing, and they were looking for him. The story didn't say they suspected he was out shooting civilians. Just that he was missing.

The military guys are Americans, just like we are. If you knew your buddy was close by shooting children, would you try to stop it? Of course you would. So would they.

I know it's hard for the Afghans to believe, but when a loony bird with a gun shows up somewhere unexpected and starts killing people, it's hard to stop it. As we've seen a number of times on our own home turf in the last decade.

It's hard to accept that a loony bird caused this horrible thing. But it's been known to happen in war times, and in peaceful times. Whoever released that guy back to duty has some explaining to do, knowing he had suffered a brain injury and was on his fourth tour of duty.

I didn't know it lasted three hours, if it did. Why did it last that long? Did he take a break and sleep or something? (that's a serious question) It only takes a few minutes to kill a lot of people with military weapons.

[USArmyParatrooper]

25. Shhh! You're not supposed to make is sound like humans.

I've been reading up a bit more on it. Some locals came to the base looking for help. They then sent out a search party and deployed UAV's to scout the areas. One of the UAV's finally picked him up lowcrawling - approaching the base. He was confronted by MP's, he admitted responsibility, asked for a lawyer and hasn't been cooperating since.

[snagglepuss]

29. I read the other day that the army sent soldiers who has serious attitude problems

to that base. I have no idea whether that is something the army does. What do you make of that statement? I also wonder how many other soldiers with TBI have been sent back.

[USArmyParatrooper]

31. Two things

What you read doesn't make any sense. Was it an Internet blog or a mainstream media report?

I read one article where the army said there is no record of him having TBI, that it's nothing more than an Internet rumor.

[snagglepuss]

36. Here's the CNN story that was posted on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002414971

[USArmyParatrooper]

38. That still doesn't make sense.

First of all that was just one person's claim. And he didn't make that claim about the FOB in Afganistan, he made it about Fort Lewis, Washington.

I'm not saying there are no bad leaders, but a 'base' can't have a leadership problem that would be relevant here. Bases are filled with a plethora of different units, each one with their own leadership (and leadership is constantly changing.) One of the units at Fort Lewis; for example, is a Ranger Battalion.

The "base leadership" would be the Post Commander and his staff, who oversee construction projects, writes post rules and regulations, directs post closures during inclement weather and things of that nature.

[Honeycombe8]

39. Wow. How awful, if that's true. Maybe something will be done about it now. nt

[snagglepuss]

35. self delete

[joeybee12]

32. More to this story than our government is telling us...knr

[CanSocDem]

33. Why???

Because it is easier to turn this moral failing into a pseudo-scienitific discussion about what exactly is mental illness, in the Great Society.

You have your work cut out for you.


.

[slackmaster]

34. The Conspiracy widens yet again