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Alcibiades

(5,061 posts)
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 11:24 AM Mar 2012

It's not an isolated Incident: The massacre and Lt. Col. Davis

Leon Panetta has described the latest rash of events in Afghanistan as a series of "isolated incidents." To see these cases-the urinating on corpses by elite snipers (who are supposedly some of the best disciplined troops), the "accidental" burnings of the Korans, and the incident wherein yet another solder, one who trained as a sniper and was based at the same Washington base as the now-infamous "kill team" that made headlines by taking trophies-as simply isolated incidents requires a wilful blindness to the parallels with Vietnam, another long war that became an endless quagmire that broke down the discipline of US troops

"Each of these incidents is deeply troubling." "We will not allow individual incidents to undermine our resolve."

Goddamn, this sounds familiar. These incidents are not isolated: they occur in a broader context of an endless quagmire, no matter what Panetta claims to the contrary. They also ressurect the specter of another stereotype from the Vietnam era, that of the twitching, ever-ready to snap veteran. Panetta himself apparently believes there is some truth to this: according to news accounts, when he met with Marines in Afghanistan, they had to meet him without their arms:

"In a sign that nerves are on edge, a group of US Marines waiting to hear Panetta speak inside a hall were asked to leave their rifles outside.

American troops typically have their rifles in hand when the US defence secretary addresses them."

So, to summarize the administration's position:

1. These are isolated incidents perpetrated by a few bad apples

2. The strategy is working and we ought to stay the course

3. Please leave your weapons outside

It's not a question of resolve: it's a question of common sense. The counter-insurgency strategy supposes that we will win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people, but that's really hard to do when a few bad apples persist in burning their holy books, urinating on corpses, taking trophies and killing their children in their sleep. It seems to me that this goes beyond a PR problem, which is how the administration seems to be handling these problems.

These isolated incidents have also taken place less than a month after Lt. Colonel Daniel Davis issued his report documenting the Pentagon's malfeasance in Afghanistan. You have to call it malfeasance, or worse. To anyone even remotely familiar with the US military, the language used in the report is simply shocking, especially coming from a Lt. Colonel sent by the Pentagon to look into Afghanistan, especially in that he publicized this report and sent it to the Inspector General.

Lt. Colonel Davis is someone who is a real American hero. His once-promising career is over, because he shows in detail how top Pentagon brass have lies to the public. You need to read this:

http://www1.rollingstone.com/extras/RS_REPORT.pdf

Davis documents that Panetta's dismissal of the latest massacre as simply an "isolated incident" is exactly parallel to the way the US military in Afghanistan has handled any and every setback: it has been denied and dismissed. The result, according to Davis:

"One of the least considered consequences of mendacity, even among Members of our Congress, is that when we do not deal honestly with public audiences our credibility and reputation take significant hits. This loss of credibility itself has hidden consequences. A diplomat I know from a nation very friendly to the United States recently told me how things look to even some of our best allies."
"Despite overwhelming physical evidence of our failure to succeed on the military front, senior US and ISAF leaders inexplicably continue a steady stream of press releases and public statements that imply the exact opposite. Far from positively influencing the target audiences in the region, our words and actions unequivocally work to our disadvantage, as it causes both our friends and foes to question what we say. One Washington, DC-based foreign diplomat with whom I recently talked, explained that diplomats from other countries whom he knew shared his view: the problem isn't so much they have lost confidence in the truthfulness of our public statements, but possibly something worse - they suppose we genuinely believe what we're saying, but our ability to accurately assess difficult foreign problems is flawed."

In its handling of the massacre, the Pentagon has proceeded exactly in the same way it has mishandled other debacles in the theater. It's noteworthy, for example, that the name of the suspect has yet to be released. Why? After all, when Major Hasan killed other soldiers at Ft. Hood, his identity was released within three hours. So when an American soldier murders other soldiers on base in the US, his name is released immediately, but when an American soldier sneaks off in the middle of the night to murder civilians and their children in their sleep in Afghanistan, it's treated as a matter of national security. The soldier's family has already been placed in protective custody, and he has been secreted out of the country, so why is it they have not released his name? Especially given that this is an isolated incident and there's nothing to hide.

According to Lt. Colonel Davis, actual failures on the ground are covered up, and not acknowledged publicly. Of course we're not going to change course, we're winning? It's easier to claim victory when you are covering up your failures. But what if public support for the war should drop? Would that be a reason for leaving? Surprise surprise surprise, the answer is no:

Little said recent polls that show a lack of American support for the war will not impact the strategy.

"We are not conducting this war effort by polls. We are not going to be guided by polls, which can change on a daily if not hourly basis," Little said.
Pentagon spokesman George Little
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/12/pentagon-war-strategy-not-changing/

These are isolated incidents, but we don't trust Marines to have their weapons when Panetta addresses them. Public support for the war is falling, but that's certainly no reason to leave, because we're winning. Oh, and we're really really winning, never mind that a Pentagon senior officer has accused top brass of lying and covering up failures. We are building the capacity of Afghan security forces, never mind the fact that these forces appear to be killing US troops whenever they get the chance.

We will leave only when all the problems in Afghanistan are solved, and not before, never mind the fact that there's little evidence that more guys with guns have ever solved any of Afghanistan's problems.

9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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It's not an isolated Incident: The massacre and Lt. Col. Davis (Original Post) Alcibiades Mar 2012 OP
Aljazeera seems to have a better vantage point than Panetta Alcibiades Mar 2012 #1
Some lovely sarcasm from Ireland Alcibiades Mar 2012 #2
Panetta also seems to have lied about the Afghan reaction Alcibiades Mar 2012 #3
Afghanistan vets are also be comitting suicide: 16 in January Alcibiades Mar 2012 #4
At least they are not trampling on the weed snooper2 Mar 2012 #5
They seem to be having fun Alcibiades Mar 2012 #6
Resentment is almost palpable. cbrer Mar 2012 #7
+1 Alcibiades Mar 2012 #8
Americans cbrer Mar 2012 #9

Alcibiades

(5,061 posts)
1. Aljazeera seems to have a better vantage point than Panetta
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 12:13 PM
Mar 2012

Denial and defeat in Afghanistan
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/03/201231593938401477.html

Actually not simply an editorial-it was written by Tarak Barkawi at the New School. Though there are a few bits that seem hyperbolic, it's more clearheaded than what Panetta is saying when he dismisses these "isolated incidents:"
SNIP
"The West is not welcome in Afghanistan and is only present by force of arms. Westerners prefer to believe that, a few bad apples aside, most "ordinary Afghans" support Western led development."
SNIP
Intrestingly, we have what appears to be a "few bad apples" view of the war. Sure, some US forces have allegedly commited atrocities, but they are just "a few bad apples." Sure, some Afghans resist foreign troops on Afghan soil, but they are just "a few bad apples."

People seem to forget that the original aphorism is that "A few bad apples spoil the barrel."

Alcibiades

(5,061 posts)
2. Some lovely sarcasm from Ireland
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 12:18 PM
Mar 2012

Once again, irony expresses reality better than what we are being offered by the administration and the Pentagon:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/mark-steel/mark-steel-the-us-armys-bad-apples-16131002.html

"The case of the soldier who went berserk in Afghanistan and killed 16 people must be utterly baffling to psychiatrists.

Who can imagine what might cause someone in a stable environment such as Kandahar, with reliable role models training you to distrust the entire local population as terrorists, and no access to weapons except automatic machine guns, to flip like that? Still, they say it's always in the tranquil places that these things happen."

Alcibiades

(5,061 posts)
3. Panetta also seems to have lied about the Afghan reaction
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 12:30 PM
Mar 2012

to not handing the namless soldier over to the Afghans for trial:

"I assured him first and foremost that I shared his regrets about what took place. I again pledged to him that we are proceeding with a full investigation here and that we will bring the individual involved to justice. He accepted that," Panetta told reporters before leaving Afghanistan.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-afghanistanbre82b1f8-20120312,0,7822861.story

He accepted that? Really? There was no talk of what the reaction in the Afghan parliament would be, or among the people? I doubt Karzai really said this was something he found "acceptable."
SNIP
""It was the demand of the families of the martyrs of this incident, the people of Kandahar and the people of Afghanistan to try him publicly in Afghanistan," said Mohammad Naeem Lalai Hamidzai, a Kandahar lawmaker who is part of a parliamentary commission investigating the shootings.

CBS News correspondent David Martin reports that Defense Department spokesman Capt. John Kirby said the suspect was moved because "we do not have an appropriate detention facility in Afghanistan" and that the move was made on the legal recommendation of the command's lawyer.

A second official told Martin that it was done with the knowledge and approval of Karzai.

Moving the suspect will allow the U.S. to provide pretrial confinement, access to legal representation and the ability to ensure fair and proper judicial proceedings, said U.S. Lt. Gen. Curtis Scaparotti, deputy commander of American forces in Afghanistan.

Afghan government officials have not responded to request for comment on the transfer.

In Kuwait, U.S. Army spokesman Lt. Col. David Patterson said Thursday that the detention unit there, known as a Theater Field Confinement Facility, holds pre-trial detainees and post-trial confinees for a limited amount of time.

He would not confirm any further details about the case.

The Kuwait detention facilities have been used for other U.S. troops. The most prominent detainee recently was Army PFC Bradley Manning, who was held there after he was taken into custody in Baghdad in 2010 for allegedly leaking government documents in the WikiLeaks case.

Abdul Khaliq Balakarzai, another Kandahar lawmaker, said Karzai should respond to the U.S. decision to move the soldier by refusing to sign the strategic partnership agreement governing NATO troop presence in the country.

"If the trial was in Afghanistan, the people would see that America doesn't like this soldier and wants to punish him," said Balakarzai. "But unfortunately America ignored our demand."

Haji Abdul Ghani, a tribal elder from the area of Panjwai district where the shooting spree occurred, warned the U.S. move would cause "people to rise up and increase the hostility between Afghanistan and America."

SNIP

Does that sound like something Karzai thinks is going to be acceptable, to him or anyone else? Note, too, that the US is saying one thing to the Afghans, that the suspect may be remanded to them for trial, but doing something else in practice.

Alcibiades

(5,061 posts)
4. Afghanistan vets are also be comitting suicide: 16 in January
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 12:49 PM
Mar 2012
http://blog.seattlepi.com/militarywire/2012/03/14/afghanistan-contributing-to-more-suicides-january-suicide-data-released/

SNIP
There is trouble on the Front…and trouble at home.

Once home, our troops are often faced with unmet expectations, unresolved issues and too many “unknowns” that lead to an increase in suicide.

The Army released suicide data for the month of January and found that among active-duty Soldiers, there were 16 potential suicides where five have been confirmed as suicide and 11 still remain under investigation.

SNIP

But it's nothing like Iraq, or Vietnam. It's different. This time, there really is light at the end of the tunnel.

Alcibiades

(5,061 posts)
6. They seem to be having fun
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 01:09 PM
Mar 2012

Funny how you're supposed to say "I've never smoked weed" in order to join up and, if you're honest about it, the recruiter will tell you to lie and say it was only once, as an "experiment."

Then we send these kids to the copuntry of origin of many of the world's drugs, but expect them not to get high.

 

cbrer

(1,831 posts)
7. Resentment is almost palpable.
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 02:19 PM
Mar 2012

However inhabitants of Kabul are very interested in the massive funds we pump into the local economy. They are a unique people living in an ancient city. Their perspective is nothing like ours. They seem quite friendly on a personal level. They are devout, industrious, and though they enjoy possesions and money, it is nowhere near the priority of their lives. We will never mold these people in our economic image, much less conquer them.

Alcibiades

(5,061 posts)
8. +1
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 12:36 AM
Mar 2012

What amazes me is that folks who would never tolerate foreign troops on US soil somehow expect so many other folks to accept ours on theirs.

 

cbrer

(1,831 posts)
9. Americans
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 04:07 AM
Mar 2012

For the most part, seem to accept what they're fed over cable TV and base their opinions on that. When choosing leaders, cars, or groceries. And we accept foreign policy decisions the same way. Our imperialistic and illegal invasions have brought us here.

The Afghanis I've met are stoic, and properly skeptical about leaders. As well as philosophical about death, and foreign invaders. Kabul is a unique ancient city with it's own flavor (mostly dust!).

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