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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA Tale of Two Stadiums
It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. Here in Minneapolis St. Paul, MN, an era is ending and another beginning. The Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome will see its last public event today, when the Minnesota Vikings play the Detroit Lions in the last game of the season for both lousy teams. The game will be boring, and the teams have no stake in performing well for the sold-out crowd seeking to attend this last, historic game. The Metrodome, first used in 1982, will be demolished, beginning not long after this final game is over. In its place will rise a new stadium, looking for all the world like a monstrous glass cathedral.
The HHH Metrodome was built with a large influx of taxpayer dollars, and with the promise of great economic benefits to the Twin Cities. Those benefits remain unseen so far, really. There were, of course, a couple of sports bars built near the edifice, so a few long-term jobs in the food service industry were created, I guess, but the expansive conception of a thriving community around that stadium somehow never became a reality.
The new $1 billion Vikings stadium, like the old one, will be built with the help of a very large sum of taxpayer dollars as well, and the arguments for that public investment are pretty much the same arguments raised for the one they are now tearing down. The likelihood that the benefits will appear this time is about the same as the last time. But, an edifice is needed, and will be built. So spake the movers and shakers of Minnesota.
For what, some ask? Well, for the pride of the community! For a multi-purpose stadium for the citizens of Minnesota! Perhaps, but the real benefits will accrue to the owner of the Minnesota Vikings, one Zygi Wilf, a real estate magnate who, by chance, was recently judged to be a fraud in the state of New Jersey, and will have to pay almost $100 million in damages to the defrauded party. Zygi, a mustachioed entrepreneur of the first water will see the selling price for the Minnesota Vikings increase dramatically once the new stadium is erected. Now, to be fair, Zygi is contributing part of the cost of this new football cathedral, as is the NFL, but that money is highly leveraged and one wonders how long the lever might be and where the fulcrum will be placed. I suspect the fulcrum will bear directly on the backs of Minnesota taxpayers in some circuitous way.
For our investment, Minnesota residents will have the opportunity to visit this new cathedral honoring a boy's game at least 8 times each year, and maybe 9, if the team actually wins enough games to be in the playoffs. That, given the last two seasons, though, seems highly unlikely. There will also be some other opportunities to visit the new stadium, perhaps. A monster truck rally or two, and other possible events that are as yet unknown. Still, given the price of this new stadium, ticket prices are bound to go up substantially, and they are already high enough that most Minnesotans do not have the price of a ticket available so they can attend a game. Only those of considerable means will have entry into this stadium, it appears.
It is folly. This new stadium, built on the backs of Minnesota taxpayers at extreme cost, with the price of attendance high enough to prevent most of those who pay for the stadium from every attending a game, is an obscenity. That the taxpayers of Minnesota will be forced to pay for a facility they cannot use, all for the profit of a man already judged to be a fraud, is the source of the obscenity. When will we learn that public money should not be spent on rich men's foolishness? When will we say NO! to such excesses? When will that money be spent instead on rebuilding infrastructures, pacifying troubled urban neighborhoods and educating Minnesota's children?
Perhaps next time? This time, there's no such luck.
The New Viking's Cathedral
phil89
(1,043 posts)almost the exact same thing in Indianapolis. An utter disgrace.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Americans, or at least some Americans, appear to worship football, which lends itself to cathedral like edifices.
Archae
(46,337 posts)They used to say that about the Dallas Cowboys.
No, it's Jerry Jones' Texas money pit.
"America's Team" is the Green Bay Packers, since the *FANS* are the majority stockholders, not some corrupt bastard like this Minnesota guy.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)She wouldn't bow to Jerry Jones.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)The owner before that was a Texas guy.
edhopper
(33,589 posts)to be used 10 days a year, unless the Vikings are a home team in the playoffs, then maybe 12.
Sounds like good use of public funds. Not like Minnesota need infrastructure repair or anything.
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MineralMan
(146,317 posts)water mains in downtown Minneapolis, causing buildings to flood. That's just the beginning of such infrastructure failures for which there is no funding to make replacements. Our urban schools are failing, too.
But, we can build a $1 Billion edifice to a ball game. Feh!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Would higher usage(as it will get) make a big difference for you?
edhopper
(33,589 posts)hyperbolic. 10 home games for the team. I know these stadiums are used for other events. But I think the comparison to infrastructure is apt.
And no, more use doesn't matter. I don't think these stadiums should be funding by the public, unless like Green Bay the town owns the team.
hatrack
(59,587 posts)"But . . . but . . . but . . . we CAN'T lose the (name of team)!!!!!!!! We wouldn't be a (world-class/top-tier/first-rate/unquestioned - your pick!) destination if we did!"
roody
(10,849 posts)that lasts more than 31 years? My house is 59 yrs old and still good.
malthaussen
(17,204 posts)Honorable mention to Wrigley Field. But anything built after, say, 1970 is doomed to be unusable within a generation. I give this new monstrosity 20 years, tops.
-- Mal
I love Fenway!
Logical
(22,457 posts)It has Arrowhead and Royals stadium in the same location. It was build in 1972!
pstokely
(10,529 posts)$27 parking for even pre-season games
Logical
(22,457 posts)Here is the list of bus options on game day.
Not sure what your complaint really is.
http://www.kcchiefs.com/arrowhead/public-transportation.html
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)But their opinion is strong like bull.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Of course the Packers are owned by their fans.
pstokely
(10,529 posts)stadiums aren't big moneymakers for the owners after they turn 21 or even 16
TheMightyFavog
(13,770 posts)One of the prettiest venues in all of baseball. I've always loved the zig-zaggy roof over the outfield bleachers. I'd like to go to a game there someday.
dem in texas
(2,674 posts)Stadiums and computers are too different to compare. The taxpayers should not be footing the bill for these big stadiums so some rich man can make more money. In Dallas, we tore down Reunion arena before it was even paid for to build the new American Airlines center, all on the taxpayers dime. Jerry Jones didn't benefit from this, he moved on to Arlington, but other rich business men did. The taxpayer gets the shaft again.
Morning Dew
(6,539 posts)Of course it will be named for corporate entity and for a huge price.
The one and only thing I liked about that awful dome was that it wasn't subject to naming rights while the Twins were the primary tenant. As soon as the Twins left (within hours), the place was plastered with Mall of America Field banners. Just one more reason to detest the Wilf money machine.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)All that wasted money, and the upkeep on that thing is going to be enormous. They clearly learned nothing from having the metrodome roof collapsing all the time. Why not build a glass building so the snow can bust through the roof? Fucking legislature and Mark Dayton.
Like anyone actually wanted the pathetic Vikings. That whole ruse about their going to LA was pure bullshit.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Some sort of acrylic plastic, I understand. Still...
I rewrote the last line of the Viking's Rouser some time ago to read:
Go, Vikings. Just Go!
Buncha losers, anyhow.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)I wouldn't shed a tear if that happened.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)We don't need or want a football team in LA
jmowreader
(50,560 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)And they used that card to blackmail the state into funding a stadium. No one wants them. They are pathetic.
Nobody You Know
(33 posts)and start a new campaign for a L.A. team name that's more appropriate - like L.A. Stars or L.A. Bryants or something?
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)for giving the Timberwolves, one of very worst teams in the history of the NBA, the name Lakers and thereby fooling people into buying tickets or watching a game on television.
SwankyXomb
(2,030 posts)but the LA city charter only allows us to steal one team from any municipality, and we already took the Lakers. You're stuck with them.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)They just got done building that one. Only it was Hennepin County that has to pay for that stadium for the other pathetic sports team.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)if I had talked about three stadiums.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)The basis of the German model is the 50+1 rule whereby a minimum of 51% of the club must be owned by club members. This still allows for considerable investment opportunities for private business to invest while preventing them from having overall control of the direction of the club. A Bundesliga club board is made up of delegates selected by the shareholders. That way the supporter membership associations or Mutterveiren have a direct say on the management of the club.
The benefits to this method are clear, especially to English supporters who long for an end to the days where English clubs are subject to the whims and excesses of individual owners or uncaring capitalists who use their club to clear their own debts. Corporate interest is curtailed by the interests of the supporters. As long as the supporters have the best interest of the club at heart, that club is unlikely to allow itself to become mismanaged.
CrispyQ
(36,478 posts)It reminds me of this:
Air Force Academy Chapel in Colorado Springs
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)what it looks like to the artist who drew that up.
tritsofme
(17,380 posts)Which was my only dog in this fight. Football should be played outside, bring back the Frozen North!
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)the frigid air in. Like today, when the game will be played in sub-zero weather.
A gigantic game of freeze-out is in order.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)That would have pushed the price tag above where even our Democrats would have balked.
tritsofme
(17,380 posts)So not truly an outdoor stadium.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts), which was rejected as too costly. Sorry.
As much as I oppose the building of this stadium, if we build it, it must have a roof of some sort or it will not be usable much of the year here in MN.
spanone
(135,844 posts)TBF
(32,067 posts)paid by tax payers. We already pay high ticket prices and it's not like the owners or players are taking a cut (especially the owners!).
So, yes, I pretty much agree with your assessment. We've got better things to spend $$$ on.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)by taxpayers. Professional sports should be self-funded, entirely. If they cannot be profitable that way, then good riddance to them.
That's my opinion.
TBF
(32,067 posts)Card for the city like other large arenas etc so there are probably arguments for some subsidizing. I dunno, when Green Bay wanted to work on Lambeau they just sold more shares. But we've got a socialist system up there
hatrack
(59,587 posts)Yup - big game today
TheMightyFavog
(13,770 posts)Worked out well for us. Hell, it even helped us get us a Dem in our state senate seat, and he's held it to this day.
TBF
(32,067 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)If a lot of people want to get to a particular place, then it's reasonable for government to support mass transit connections and/or improved road access, regardless of why people want to get there and regardless of who will reap incidental benefits (the downtown businesses, a rich football team owner, etc.).
Similarly, if the team pays for its own stadium, including the rest rooms, then taxpayers might have to spend money for sewer connections, if that's what's done for other new construction.
With those comparatively minor exceptions, I agree with you completely.
Be grateful they're at least using the site of the old stadium. In New York City, eminent domain was used to grab the property of existing homes and businesses that stood in the way of the Atlantic Yards project. The centerpiece of Atlantic Yards was the new basketball arena to lure the Nets from New Jersey to Brooklyn. More civic pride, doncha know.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)... The Kick Back
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)Yes, those millionaire owners laugh all the way to the bank as a result of this "swindle".
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)The Vikings suck. They don't deserve a new stadium. They shouldn't get a new stadium if they were good, either.
Meanwhile, how many bridges in Minnesota need to be repaired? The roads in St. Cloud absolutely suck. There's potholes everywhere. The college in town (SCSU) is cutting programs because of budget cuts, but the Vikings get a new stadium. The infrastructure in MN is getting dated and needs to be repaired. But we're spending money for a new Vikings stadium.
What happened to our priorities?
BlueCheese
(2,522 posts)With the scheduled closure and demolition of Candlestick Park in San Francisco as well, this marks the almost-end of the era of the municipal combined baseball/football stadiums of the 1970s. I think only the Oakland Coliseum (home of the Raiders and the A's) will be left after this.
A fond farewell to those lovable concrete dumps that housed generations of sports teams and their fans. Memorial Stadium, the Vet, the Kingdome, the Astrodome, Riverfront, Three Rivers, Cleveland Stadium, RFK: we hardly knew you.
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)Teams which embrace the weather as part of their team such as the Bears and Packers continue to succeed.
You lose the toughness playing in a dumb and I doubt the fair weather fans would want the cold air in in winter.
Look to Soldier Field today to see how NFC North football should be played. Then Lambeau Field next week for the wild card game!
Teams need to sell shares like the Packers! They are only worth the bragging rights, but when I say MY TEAM, I really can say that.
Go Pack Go!! ARod and Cobb both return today!
tritsofme
(17,380 posts)Except the Wild Card game will be played at Soldier Field next week, not Lambeau.
from you at all,
Packers Suck
Go Bears Go!!!
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)Hell of a rivalry, ain't it?
Daaable check the score after the game!
Cutless knocked out in 1st. 1/4.
Who sucks?
Let's Daaable check that score.
33 to 28
Da Bears gave a good game though. See ya next year!
BobUp
(347 posts)keep the bears out of your back yard?
Hell, I'd be happy if we could keep them out of our back field!
Okay. I give up.
BobUp
(347 posts)SCVDem
(5,103 posts)The 49ers haven't seen our new and improved running game yet.
Our opening loss to them was a shaky start.
In any case, Go Packers!
BobUp
(347 posts)went to the clinic today for checkups, coaches and owners wanted to find out if they could hear a whistle, or not.
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)Now there's the Passarooski ! As Lombardi said, "What the hell is going on out here?"!!
(Being from Wi originally, So Ca. since 74, I note the Ski. Damn I miss a good Polish sausage or brat)
BobUp
(347 posts)officials will be given vision tests.....since they have problems seeing if it was a touchdown or not. You should have been in my living room last night, you would have heard wifey cussing like a sailor.
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)I'm from Greenfield. Home of Alan Kulwicki and UW QB Joel Stave.
Packers shareholder and I screamed in the bar when AR tossed that TD to Cobb. It could have been a beer commercial.
don't tell my neighbors, they'll kill me.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)It appeared to me that the Bears played better tgan expected, but the Oackers also had some luck on their side. The players need to keep playing until the whistle is blown.
Kaleva
(36,312 posts)Green Bay is the exception and was grandfathered in.
hibbing
(10,098 posts)I've posted this with every one of these billionaire owners who get the taxpayers to build these stadiums. Look into the idiot son's involvement with the Texas Rangers for some real chuckles.
Peace
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)..or since Bud Grant and the no heaters allowed on the sidelines, and the frigid tailgating,...and the fun taunting of southern teams when they came to town. They lost a lot going indoors...
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)I tried to like the Vikings, but just never could do it. I've been a Packers fan since I was a kid, and still am.
Don't like the Vikings, didn't like the Rams, even though I lived 50 miles from Los Angeles. I stuck with the Packers, and am forever a Cheesehead.'
I'm also a Cornhuskers fan by marriage. My late FiL played for the team in 1941. Go Big Red!
I dunno, the L.A. Vikings has a nice ring to it, but it's too late for that now.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)and hung by his thumbs for the tear down of Memorial Stadium. They coukd have refurbished it at the time for about $6million.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Patriots wanted a new stadium, said "give us lots of stuff or we're moving to Connecticut!". We said "Don't let the door hit your mighty muscular asses on the way out!" They stayed - I think we built them a shitty little service road.
Red Sox pulled the same crap, IIRC they got zilch.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)has a rather interesting history, as I found out just recently...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillette_Stadium
Anyway, NE haters can say what they want about the team, the coach, and the owner, but Robert Kraft paid for Gillette out of his own pocket
As the article says, a rare instance of a team owner financing the cost of a stadium.
He's been rewarded many times over by the wins, titles, and general sense of pride (among Pats fans, anyway) in our team.
Chuuku Davis
(565 posts)To spend taxpayer money?
Sounds like they should be recalled
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Disappointing.
moondust
(19,993 posts)And the Bengals!
And a host of others!
You wouldn't want to FALL BEHIND!
Isn't that kinda how it works? Kinda like CEO pay?
dflprincess
(28,079 posts)and Target field is far more attractive than the monstrosity being built for the Vikings...The football player on the outside really just sends it over the line for me.
And now the state says it needs to cut funds for home healthcare.
maced666
(771 posts)Rather obvious and understandable. Who wants to spend tax money, your tax money, on something you will never benefit from?
You'll get similar complaints from people who don't support states/cities from spending millions each year on the arts when the city orchestra plays to 3,000 people on a Saturday evening. The public gives over 10 billion a year to the arts as well - you won't see private citizens donating to private NFL teams anything more than 10 cents.
The NFL and their ever-improving luxury stadiums are just a different animal. The sport/league is wildly successful and yes, rich. Of course they can afford to build their own stadiums. Billion dollar deals are signed every few years with multiple vendors/advertisers including TV contracts, official cell phone sponsor, special cable deals, beer sponsors - the list of 1000 million dollar + deals is endless.
But each owner is an individual when it comes to where they play and old supply and demand comes into account. Los Angeles is perfectly fine without a team, culturally and otherwise. Yet other cities offer up hundreds of millions to fund new stadiums just to keep a team from moving away.
And they will continue to do so much to the dislike of many taxpayers who do not follow the league. Each city different. Atlanta city politicians recently were accused of partially paying for a new Falcon stadium only because two local churches got a ridiculous 40 million dollar payoff for their small lots.
I'd like to see the NFL reveal how much they profit-share with each team each year - ALL of it. It has to be a ridiculous number which is why they will never reveal it all.