Quasi-Nazi salute popular in France

[Mosby]

Last edited Mon Dec 30, 2013, 10:58 PM - Edit history (2)

French comedian Dieudonne demonstrating the quenelle, a Nazi-like gesture whose popularity has soared in France.



PARIS – To outsiders, they seem like ordinary men striking macho poses for the camera. But there is a dark side to the photos that are appearing with growing frequency in the French media.

The men – and less frequently women – are performing the “quenelle,” a gesture vaguely similar to the Nazi salute that some believe was invented solely to express hatred of Jews without inviting prosecution.

In France, displaying Nazi symbols is illegal if done to cause offense. But the quenelle, in which one places the left palm across the right shoulder, may not be prosecutable. It is just similar enough to the Nazi salute to make its meaning clear, but not so similar that the gesturer could be subject to criminal charges.

-snip-

The quenelle is of a piece with Dieudonne’s coining of the term “shoananas,” a mashup of the Hebrew word for Holocaust and the French word for pineapple that is seen as a safe way to suggest the Holocaust is a myth while not running afoul of French laws prohibiting Holocaust denial. Dieudonne fans have taken to performing the quenelle next to pineapples.

The quenelle’s popularity has soared in France. Hundreds of quenelle photos can be found in anti-Semitic forums and on Facebook, with quenelles performed at Jewish sites and at Nazi concentration camps especially popular. But while civil servants may face disciplinary action over the quenelle, civilians may perform it with impunity.


http://www.jewishaz.com/us_worldnews/world/quasi-nazi-salute-popular-in-france/article_861cdee8-6ccb-11e3-afad-001a4bcf6878.html

There is no question about the intent of this gesture.

[warrior1]

1. idiots

[dipsydoodle]

2. Might as well say that many who go pop concerts do a full Nazi salute.

They don't in fact do so with that intent - can just give that appearance.

As the article states "some believe.........

[Iggo]

40. What do you think is happening in these three photos?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024240928#post5

[joshcryer]

46. Uh, Dieudonné M'bala M'bala is a racist anti-semite who invented the gesture.

I'm starting to really question your position on things around here, damn.

[Behind the Aegis]

3. Oh now....we are just being "sensitive."

I mean, who would really do something so nasty?



I am sure it will catch on and then be defended.

[Mosby]

4. Looks like it.

French star sparks row with 'Nazi-style' salute

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024244754

[jwirr]

7. Since I am of full German descent I can be sensitive. I absolutely hate this movement and mourn

those we sent over to France in WWII to liberate them from the creators of the natzi solute. Enough.

[Mosby]

5. Photos of the quenelle

Quenelle at the Western Wall



Quenelle in front of an Anne Frank poster


Quenelle outside Auschwitz

[sakabatou]

6. Disgusting

[Behind the Aegis]

8. And now there is "high" fashion to go along with it...

Thor Steinar: fashionable German Neo-Nazi clothing? WTF arely staircase

[Starry Messenger]

11. Sickening.

[NightWatcher]

15. Brave guys, trying to conceal their hate speech

I hope someone catches them there and kicks their ass.

[Behind the Aegis]

17. That has actually already happened.

[etherealtruth]

39. Repellent sub-humans

[Warren DeMontague]

43. Those little turds in front of Anne Frank sure look sheepish, don't they?

Perhaps there's a glimmer of self-awareness in that if passerby figured out what they were doing in front of a picture of a Holocaust victim, they might just get their asses resoundingly kicked.

[Behind the Aegis]

9. Crossing the Atlantic

Spurs guard Tony Parker under fire for 'quenelle' gesture, alleged anti-Semitism

[Packerowner740]

52. Never could stand parker

[JNelson6563]

10. WTF?

I have no words.

[snooper2]

12. just starting a little searching on this...interesting--- Thanks Obama!

LOL

Nicolas Anelka posts picture of Barack Obama making the ‘quenelle’ as he denies racism



Nicolas Anelka has denied his controversial goal celebration against West Ham was racist and has posted a picture on Twitter of US president Barack Obama making the same gesture.

The West Brom striker made the ‘quenelle’ salute after scoring his second goal in yesterday’s 3-3 draw with West Ham at Upton Park and now faces an FA investigation.

The salute has been heavily associated with anti-Semitism on the continent and Anelka’s use of it has caused a huge storm in France with French minister for sport Valerie Fourneyron describing it as ‘shocking’ and ‘disgusting’.

She wrote: ‘Anelka’s gesture is a shocking provocation, disgusting. There’s no place for anti-Semitism and incitement to hatred on the football field.’

However, the 34-year-old insists he was not being racist but made the gesture in support of his friend, comedian Dieudonne.

‘This gesture was just a special dedication to my comedian friend Dieudonné,’ Anelka claimed on Twitter.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/12/29/nicolas-anelka-posts-picture-of-barack-obama-making-the-quenelle-as-he-denies-racism-4244315/

[Behind the Aegis]

13. You know he is desperate now.

Those pics aren't even the same and given the various states of their hands, it looks like they are "brushing something" off their shoulders. It is always interesting to watch people justify anti-Semitism. Just last week, it was that blowhard Kayne West.

[EOTE]

14. That pic is a reference to Jay-Z's song "Dirt off your shoulder" from the Black Album.

It's just a way of showing haters that they're not getting to you. It's about as innocuous a gesture as one could make. That there are those comparing it to a disgusting, anti-semetic gesture is pretty damned sick.

[Behind the Aegis]

16. Thank you! I searched all over the place to find the meaning behind the picture!

"It's about as innocuous a gesture as one could make. That there are those comparing it to a disgusting, anti-semetic gesture is pretty damned sick. "

Agreed. It is also highly ironic!

Again, thanks for the info. I could tell it wasn't anything near the anti-Semitic gesture.

[EOTE]

19. Any time.

As an aside, it's a fantastic album as is the remashed version of the album by Danger Mouse called The Grey Album. It mashes up Jay-Z's the Black Album and the Beatle's White Album. They go together far better than one would imagine.

[mountain grammy]

18. Really, I gotta say the comparison is damn sick. unbelievable.

[EOTE]

20. It really is. Like saying the OK sign is the same as giving someone the finger.

Because, you know, they both involve fingers.

[mountain grammy]

21. Exactly!

[joshcryer]

47. Nice fact check, thanks.

Shame people would try to equate Obama to that piece of shit racist Dieudonné M'bala M'bala.

[Packerowner740]

53. Thank you, I knew there had to be a legit explanation.

[Drunken Irishman]

51. That's exactly what they're doing. Obama has done it in the past.

[Codeine]

66. Fucking Anelka.

What a massive douche.

[William769]

22. Despicable. nt

[Rex]

23. I guess people would be horrified if they found out how Greek soldiers saluted

you know...back in the day. Romans too.

[Behind the Aegis]

24. You mean, almost 2000 prior to Hitler, they were mimicking the Nazi salute?!

Now that is some impressive prognostication! Praise the Oracle of Delphi!

[Rex]

25. I saw the post with Bey and Obama...so lame my eyes got stuck in the back of my head

the excuses people will throw out there to justify someone doing something increadibly stupid. Made me wonder if people even know where the salute came from!

"Hail Caesar, we who are about to die salute you!"

[Behind the Aegis]

28. So the fault is mine for not getting the sarcasm.

I apologize. I thought it was an odd post from you, but it turns out I just read it incorrectly. I agree the excuses people will use are beyond absurd (Sorry, for thinking you were one of them!). I just added a piece about the originator of the "salute". Read an excerpt from his "comedy" act.

[Rex]

30. NP. I've done that many, many times.

Thought someone was being serious, but it was sarcasm.

Actually lately it has been satire that fooled me completely. Rather embarrassing to start a rant, only to realize the article is from a satire site.

[Skittles]

26. WTF

[Behind the Aegis]

27. More about the orginator of this new salute.

A French Jester Who Trades in Hate

THE stand-up comedian and actor Dieudonné used to draw thousands of ecstatic fans to his shows. Famous for his portrayal of an imposing, slightly boorish West African immigrant who spoke an old-fashioned, lilting French while gently mocking a shorter, agitated pal, he has played roles as varied as a nostalgic Vichy-era collaborator, a corrupt garage owner and a gay butcher.

But Dieudonné’s career has gone off the rails. After lashing out at Jews, playing down the importance of the Holocaust in shows and interviews, and becoming politically active in the name of what he calls anti-Zionism, he has become a pariah in France. Today he struggles to sell tickets to his stand-up appearances — held in cramped theaters, on a makeshift stage opposite a farm and even on a bus — and has broken off with the Jewish comic Élie Sémoun, who played his pal in a popular comedy team. Yet there was Dieudonné in the spotlight last month, his humor the focus of headlines worldwide when a screening of his directorial debut, “L’Antisémite” (“The Anti-Semite”), was canceled at the Marché du Film, the market held at the Cannes Film Festival. (There are no plans to release it in France or the United States.) Just weeks earlier four performances he was scheduled to give in Montreal were called off after Jewish groups protested.

“There are official versions of history which are indisputable in France,” Dieudonné told a young, mostly male audience in his last show here, “Rendez-nous Jésus,” or “Give Us Jesus Back.” “Take the gas chambers. Is someone going to ask, ‘Can we see the plans?’ ”

Dieudonné (pronounced DYUH-do-NAY), 47, argues that he is playing a vital role in a complacent and racist French society. “I’ve been able to laugh at everything except Jews,” he said in an interview this month. “I realized that it was forbidden to laugh about them.”

His appetite for what he describes as “humorous attacks” seems insatiable in a country where freedom of expression is a fundamental right but encouraging racial discrimination and denying an officially recognized genocide is a crime.

“I am the king’s jester,” Dieudonné said. “And the jester is the one who puts his finger on certain truths that the court doesn’t want to hear.”

more...

From his "comedy" act...

The opening 2-minute skit of the film consists of a Chaplanesque newsreel narration set during the liberation of Auschwitz in 1945. The quivering, grabby hand of a pinstriped inmate extends out from behind barbed wire as the emaciated survivor jostles with a fleshy cigar-smoking capo for attention from the camera. Dieudonné arrives dressed as an American sergeant and throws scraps of food at the beggar, commanding him with a hearty laugh and flash cards to “Mange! Bouffe!” (“Eat! Grub!”) The prisoner then reveals the existence of the gas chambers to Dieudonné. As a kitten laps up liquid from a Zyklon B canister, Dieudonné sniffs at the canister suspiciously and then dabs some on his neck like cologne. Together they sift through the ashes of a barbecue pit. “Chicken?” the skeptical Dieudonné asks. “No, those are children’s bones,” the prisoner tells him. Dieudonné proceeds to sit on a leather chair only to be yelled at by the prisoner “for sitting on my grandmother!” He picks up a chandelier and asks if it too was made of Jewish skin. “Bien sûr,” replies the prisoner before Dieudonné plops it over his head and electrifies him as if in a cartoon. The film also features guest appearances by the aged Holocaust denier Robert Faurisson and ghastly National Front ideological guru Alain Soral.

source

[Rex]

32. You know what I think about people that play down the Holocaust?

I think they must have found something about it that they like or there is some aspect that appeals to their nature, so they try to diminish the facts to help consul their soul for being rotten evil to the core.

[Behind the Aegis]

50. There is definitely a diseased pathology happening in the Holocaust denier.

The more frightening ones are the "minimizers" and the revisionists.

[Electric Monk]

29. Ok, so now if I see someone posing like that, I can thank you for helping propagate the meme.

This was the first I'd seen/heard of it, so, good for you in helping it become mainstream.

[Mosby]

34. are you for real?

You think we should hide the bigotry and racism that exists in society and pretend it doesn't exist?

This OP was intended to inform and educate DUers about a new way to express Antisemitism.

I'm not propagating a meme, I'm shining a light on it so people can't hide their bigotry.

[Electric Monk]

35. Are you? I think you do more harm for 'your cause' here on DU than good. nt

[Electric Monk]

36. and yes, I'm familiar with your posts in the I/P forum, even though I haven't replied there. nt

[Bradical79]

61. That's a stupid thing to accuse someone of.

Informing the forum about a racist gesture and what it means is not the same as propagation.

[Electric Monk]

62. Were it not for Mosby, I wouldn't have known about it or given it any significance at all. nt

[Bradical79]

65. Me neither

and I'm not running around now making that gesture. And I'm guessing, neither are you, but a couple of your other posts here make me wonder about that.

[Codeine]

67. Nicolas Anelka is the one making it mainstream.

This article is in reaction to his highly-publicized on-pitch use of the quenelle as part of a goal celebration.

[Codeine]

31. One of our DU regulars was trying to downplay the quenelle yesterday.

I wonder if this article will help change his mind?

[Electric Monk]

33. because posing like this is so much worse than improperly foreclosing on someones mortgage

or incarcerating them for minor drug crimes.

Yep, you've got your priorities straight.

[LeftyMom]

37. *blink* *blink* *rubs eyes*

I swear, I must hallucinate half the shit I read on this forum anymore.

[skypilot]

55. LOL!!!

IKR.

[Codeine]

41. Did somebody call Captain Non-Sequitor?

If you could give me a quick run-down on the path from Point A to Point B in your little trip there I'd be much obliged, champ.

[LeftyMom]

56. Apparently in his mind the jump from Anti-Semitism to Banking is a short one.

Which is pretty damned revealing about what's going on there, isn't it?

[Electric Monk]

58. That jump was made in your head, dear LeftyMom, not mine.

This is what I was talking about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victimless_crime#Economic_drawbacks_of_the_War_on_Drugs

[LeftyMom]

59. And what the everloving fuck does that have to do with a modified Nazi salute?

[Electric Monk]

60. Gang hand sings are gang hand signs. They just self identify jerks who use them.

The Bloods or Crips didn't nearly crash the global economy in 2008. Perspective.

[Bradical79]

63. She made the connection

because you decided to try and redirect a thread regarding anti-semetism into discussion over banking issues, making it seem that you buy into a particularly nasty stereotype.

It's an easy connection for a reasonably intelligent human being to make.

[Electric Monk]

64. I also discussed non-violent drug crimes, but you both conveniently ignored that.

I think that says way more about your assumptions than mine. Some see what they want to see and disregard the rest.

[gollygee]

57. What?

I'm so confused.

Re the OP: I'd never heard of this and I'm really saddened that someone felt some need to create this kind of a gesture, and that people have taken to sing it and posting photos of it online.

[Oilwellian]

38. Most countries have their NAZI lovers

[Codeine]

42. And if one of the most important players in US sports made a Nazi salute

as a goal celebration it would be one helluva huge story.

[joshcryer]

48. They'd be summarily fired.

[Bradical79]

68. I would hope so

Though, with what some of our stars get away with, I do wonder if our media and fans would find a way to "forgive" him. Rape? Murder? Racist comments? It's all water under the bridge as far as some are concerned.

[LittleBlue]

45. This is why making racism illegal doesn't work

People who aren't antisemitic are now striking this pose as an FU to authority.

[Ash_F]

49. This is sad to see in France.

Well, it's sad anywhere. But particularly France. Russia too.

[Niceguy1]

54. yeah it is you think they would have learned

what hate does 70 years ago...but some things never change. I bet the next major world war starts in Europe again.

[LeftyMom]

69. Update: Here's San Antonio Spur Tony Parker doing one.

http://deadspin.com/why-are-so-many-athletes-posing-for-pictures-with-a-hol-1493938682

[mylye2222]

70. And now I have just learned

those facists performed their " quenelle" at Oradour-sur Glane, a famous french willage witch was burned by the Nazis as they were in retreat. They did it into the church's ruis, where women and children were there burned alive!!!!


http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2014/02/07/plainte-deposee-et-enquete-ouverte-apres-une-photo-de-quenelles-a-oradour-sur-glane_4362632_3224.html