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Genghis_Sean

(39 posts)
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 11:48 AM Dec 2013

Help two public school teachers fight back against State Farm - advice requested.

Short version:
I rolled my Honda CRV two weeks ago in bad weather, totaling it, only to find out that State Farm had canceled our coverage on that vehicle a year ago without our knowledge. Predictably, they’ve refused payment, and my wife and I, two 8th grade English teachers with very limited financial means, don’t know what to do. Cancellation came after they sent three late payment notices that we didn’t address since we never received them. We were in temporary housing at the time due to a house fire from a lightning strike. Though the mail was set up to be rerouted to us, it never found us. The temporary housing was set up by… State Farm. Regardless, they sent the three letters and then canceled the policy and I’ve been driving the past year without insurance without my knowledge and am now apparently out the cost of a $10-15k car, the only good one we have.

Their position: They sent three letters as a courtesy before canceling the policy for non-payment. They aren’t obligated to do more. They do not communicate between the insurance and housing branches about their customers. We should have noticed we were not getting billed for one of the cars over the past year.

My position: Greater effort should have been made to contact us before canceling our insurance. We continued to pay for insurance with them on our Civic as well as our house insurance. Our house was empty for four months, the phone wiring fried from the lightning. All of this was known by State Farm’s Housing department. Certainly, we would never have permitted ourselves to drive our one good vehicle without insurance. We only received a bill every six months. When we did, we paid it. We never looked to see which car it was for, and so we missed the fact that bills for one car had stopped.

Our options: State Farm has already denied us coverage. I’ve filed a complaint with the State Insurance Commission, but I’m fearful nothing will come of it. I fear I’ve got a lot of moral right on my side, and no legal right. We should get a ruling from them in the next couple weeks. If we’re denied, what next? I only see two options: Hire a lawyer, which I’ve never done. What money could a lawyer hope to make off our case? If we win, would the legal costs make it pointless? If we lose, we would have made our financial problems acute. The only other option I see is to start some kind of petition, perhaps through Credo or something and hope the bad publicity makes them cave. That strikes me as a poor idea even if there was a chance of it working. I’m not sure many would care. Others have suffered worse offenses, certainly. Plus, there’s the chance of State Farm dropping us entirely in retribution.

Advice? Having never dealt with anything like this before, I’m seeking advice from those who have. The car had not been paid for, so I’m going to check today to see if State Farm notified our lender when they canceled our policy, as somebody told me they were legally obligated to do. Other than that, I don’t know what to do. The ball’s in our court, so to speak, since they’ve already denied the claim. It’s up to us to make it otherwise.
17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
1. It will be tough if you haven't paid any premiums in a year.
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:02 PM
Dec 2013

That's a pretty long time to go and try to explain it away as the insurer's fault, even though you had some tough problems. It is true that the loan holder probably has some kind of coverage to protect them, but I suspect they are going to pressure you pretty hard. Wish I had better news.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
2. "We should have noticed we were not getting billed for one of the cars over the past year."
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:09 PM
Dec 2013

That is the tough part to overcome.

In the eyes of the law, it's incumbent upon the insured party to notice a difference in coverage, I think.

Did your premium suddenly change?

How were you making payments all the time you were out of a regular home?

I agree that the moral argument is yours, but I don't think there's a lot of hope in winning a case and wouldn't waste the money except in an exploratory way, like $50 for an initial consultation through the bar.

Credo might help, some kind of effort like that might help.

Good luck with whatever strategy you decide to pursue.

blue neen

(12,327 posts)
3. Most lenders require you to carry insurance.
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:14 PM
Dec 2013

If State Farm notified them of the cancellation, it would be surprising if the lender didn't contact you. If State Farm didn't notify them, you may have something to work with. At that point, it might be worth it for you to try again to work things out with State Farm.

justanaverageguy

(186 posts)
5. good point.
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:23 PM
Dec 2013

Usually lenders will put "Forced Placed" insurance on your vehicle if you have none. It's usually pretty expensive for you, but would at least cover them for the money you owe on the loan but nothing else toward other cost. The lender doesn't need your approval or even contact you to put "Force Placed" insurance on your car. I would check with them to see if that occurred.

justanaverageguy

(186 posts)
4. That sounds like a tough situation. I'm sorry for your loss
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:20 PM
Dec 2013

My question would be did they notify the state? In Florida when your auto insurance is canceled the carrier is required to notify the state. Florida will give you a small grace period to gain coverage. Failure to get coverage rather quickly will result with the suspension of your driver's license and revocation of your vehicle's tag.

 

PsychoBunny

(86 posts)
6. Sometimes it pays to be more observant ......
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:27 PM
Dec 2013
We only received a bill every six months. When we did, we paid it. We never looked to see which car it was for, and so we missed the fact that bills for one car had stopped.


Granted, you had some other hard issues during the time. But I think it will be hard to get the insurance company to pay on a claim where the policy had been cancelled/expired for a year. It may depend on your state and how compassionate their insurance commission is. It will probably be worth at least an initial consult with an attorney. They will be able to tell you if you have a chance.

Has the lender contacted you yet about payment of the loan balance? That will likely be the next issue.

So sorry you are having these issues over the holidays.

geek_sabre

(731 posts)
7. Not sure much can be done
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:30 PM
Dec 2013

I track my finances like a hawk, and can't imagine I'd not notice a huge drop in insurance payment. I also inspect every bill before sending a "check." Surprising how many BS third party charges end up on my phone bill, for instance.

I'm a teacher. Money is tight. Budgeting is a necessity, I don't wait for USPS to tell me when and what I have to pay.

Before this, did you receive two separate bills for your car insurance, or one? Could you get confirmation (online or otherwise) of when the notices were sent? Did you miss calls as well?

All of this could have been avoided if you'd just looked at the bill and wouldn't you get a new policy every 6 months? You'd have to look at that?

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
8. Can they prove they mailed you to cancel? They have to (won a case like this once, well settled)
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:50 PM
Dec 2013

Before my first wife and I were married she was driving in a snowstorm and we slid and hit some parked cars.

The year before dairyland insurance had canceled her policy. BUT she had paid it in cash and had a receipt. The person stole the money. She reported all this and they said they would look into it. She was not able to pay on the policy while they investigated and basically never got back with her. They canceled due to non-payment, even though it was paid, but hadn't mailed out the second notice (first was null and void because she could prove she paid).

Our attorney called them and within a week they cut a nice check. Turns out they have to notify you it is canceled and why (at least it was the law here in Ohio back then). If they did notify you and just threw it away, etc, not much to go on. But they do sometimes just say 'yeah, we mailed that' - maybe not. Computer glitch, etc and so on could have caused it not to go out. Or they could just be lying.

It was cheaper to settle with us, pay for the other vehicles, etc than fight it (my attorney was on a case where the client didn't want to settle and he said it would be years before it was all over and recommended we just take the settlement).

Just my personal experience.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
9. I'm afraid you may be totally out of luck on this one.
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 01:32 PM
Dec 2013

You really ought to have noticed that you were paying a whole lot less for insurances for that year. A year without paying is a very long time.

If a policy has lapsed and you have an accident.you're not insured. Period. Trying to reinstate the policy even the day of the accident simply won't work.

Insurance companies usually extend coverage for 30 days after the end of the policy, and they do send multiple notices. Then when you pay, late, the policy is back in force. The mail not reaching you is extremely unfortunate. If you had filled out the forwarding form with the post office and the mail still didn't reach you, hypothetically the P.O. would be at fault here. Not sure how you could demonstrate this. If State Farm knew your new address but sent mail to the old one, and you can prove that, you might have some recourse.

If your state does require lender notification of a dropped policy (which is technically what happened here) and your lender never got to you to remind you that you needed to have car insurance, in that case you might well get money. It depends completely on what the law is regarding this.

I know the state of Kansas, where I used to live, actually requires that you prove you have car insurance every year when you renew your tags. While some people then cancel or let their insurance lapse, because they've been paying month to month, for the very most part there are very few uninsured motorists with cars registered in that state.

You could certainly talk to a lawyer, but from my somewhat brief experience as a paralegal, I'm not sure one would be willing to take your case. If you could win the current value of your car, the attorney would take a third to a half of the award. Plus they usually charge for things like photocopying records and any related costs that they have to pay. This is on top of whatever the monetary award is that you'd get. So if you're lucky and win, you'd get maybe $5k. All this would take a couple of years.

 

elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
10. I assure y'all there will be no precident allowing anyone who
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 03:25 PM
Dec 2013

didn't pay for coverage for a year to claim on the policy. Period.

Doesn't your state require you to keep proof of insurance in the vehicle? This detail was another missed opportunity to note there was no coverage.

The ins. co is not responsible and it may sound grinchy but really? The OP feels morally in the right? How?

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
17. Ahh, yes. I'd somehow forgotten about that
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 01:37 AM
Dec 2013

requirement.

A couple of months ago I had a traffic stop. Apparently I didn't quite observe the stop sign as well as I should. I not only didn't have a current proof of insurance in the car, but I also didn't have the current copy of my registration. The cop could verify that my car's registration was current, so he only wrote me a notice to appear in traffic court with my proof of insurance. What helped, I think, was my disinclination to throw things out, so I had basically every single insurance thing for the past six years, ever since I bought the car.

I don't mean this to be callous, but it's too bad the OP didn't have a traffic stop, which would have brought the lack of current insurance to his attention.

Genghis_Sean

(39 posts)
11. Our case
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 04:21 PM
Dec 2013

From the replies, it sounds like we're simply out our vehicle. Our neighbor's house was struck by lightning and burned entirely up, taking off the side of our house as well. We had to pack up everything and move into temporary housing for four months. Dealing with State Farm every day regarding our house repairs, juggling new phones, Internet, etc. and everything that goes with moving into a new place without most of your things, we didn't catch that we had not received one bill for one car, no. Was it irresponsible on our part as some have suggested? I guess. We had 7500 other more pressing concerns, or so it seemed at the time. Our mail was forwarded to us there, though why we didn't receive the late notices, I can't imagine. It just seems to me that there should be some kind of verbal communication or official informing of a customer before you cut off insurance. What if I'd killed somebody or something? I'm trying to look on the good side. My eight-year-old daughter was in the back seat when I rolled the car, sliding in the snow, and she wasn't hurt, but this loss will set us back 5-10 years. It was nearly paid for and we're still struggling to climb out of debt. Thanks for the advice, all.

geek_sabre

(731 posts)
16. my advice
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 05:25 PM
Dec 2013

try to make things work with the Civic alone, and get out of debt. Get in control of your finances. Once you're not sending so much of your paycheck to everyone else, you'll be able to quickly save and buy a decent used car cash. Its incredibly liberating!

Be grateful no one was hurt in your accident. Do you and your wife teach at the same school? Or is carpooling a long-term option? Does your daughter attend the same school? Can you get side gigs to increase your income short term?

This worked wonders for me. http://www.youneedabudget.com/ I recommend you try the trial, and if you want to continue after 34 days, PM me and I'll buy it for you.

WillowTree

(5,325 posts)
12. I'm going to assume that you purchased your auto and HO policies thru a State Farm agent.
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 04:47 PM
Dec 2013

Further assuming that they were both purchased through the same State Farm agent. If that's the case, you might, just might, have a cause of action against the agent who should have seen to it that your mailing address was appropriately updated on all of your policies after the fire. It is for such things that the agent receives his/her commission. I'm not entirely sure how things work with State Farm, so I don't know if you are required to go through one of their agents to buy from them or if you can purchase directly, as through Geico and some others. But if you do have an agent, that's the only avenue that I see that you might be able to pursue. State Farm is likely in the clear.

If you didn't purchase through an agent, my guess is you're going to be SOL on this all the way around. In most states, and I assume Indiana is among them, an insurer only needs to be able to demonstrate that they mailed the statutorily required notice of termination for non-payment of premium. It sounds as if they sent you the bill (to the last address that they had on file for the policy that covered that car), then a follow-up (that's the "courtesy&quot and then notice of termination (which is required by law), and I'll guarantee you that a company as big as State Farm doesn't cut corners in record keeping of such things. It's in their best interest to dot those I's and cross those T's. So, at the risk of sounding unsympathetic to your situation, just how much of a "greater effort" do you expect them to exert? They made three attempts to get you to pay your premium with no response from you. How were they to know that you hadn't sold the car or insured it elsewhere and were just allowing the coverage on that vehicle to lapse? And yes, you should have noticed that you weren't being billed for, and therefore you weren't paying for, coverage for that car. Who else should be responsible for that? And be real here, at the time when they were billing you, they couldn't have know that you would have an accident that they would have to pay for, so at that juncture, they'd certainly have preferred to have received your payment and continue your coverage.

It's a lousy set of circumstances for you and I do have a certain amount of sympathy for your situation, but from what you've said, the insurance company did all that they are required to do.

Amaril

(1,267 posts)
13. I have worked in the insurance industry......
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 04:50 PM
Dec 2013

.....for close to 30 years (many of them as an adjuster and more recently as an auditor). I'm sorry to say this, but you're out of luck.

If you want me to explain this to you in more detail, feel free to PM me, and I'll give you the best information I can based on the state where you live.

Sorry this happened to you!

Response to Genghis_Sean (Original post)

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
15. Sorry but it sounds like you are out of luck here. I hope everything works out ok for you.
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 04:54 PM
Dec 2013

They tried contacting you and didn't get a response and you stopped paying your bill or communicating with them at all.

What more can they possibly do, really??? During one of those phone calls dealing with your lightning strike on your house, you couldn't bother to ask about your auto coverage you stopped paying for?

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