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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSaudi-Sized Cracks in the 9/11 Wall of Silence - redacted Bush report.
Two Congressmen, a Democrat and a Republican, are asking Obama to declassify the congressional report on 9/11, which the Bush administration heavily redacted.
The two members of the House of Representatives have read the blacked-out portions, including 28 totally blank pages that deal largely with Saudi government ties to the alleged 9/11 hijackers.
This is apparently major connect-the-dots stuffmuch more significant than what one may remember from Michael Moores film Fahrenheit 911, about Saudi royals and other Saudis studying and living in the US, who were allowed to go home without being interviewed in the aftermath of the attacks. This is about actual financial and logistical support of terrorism against the United Statesby its ally, the Saudi government.
As a Hoover Institution media scholar wrote in the New York Post (normally no bastion of deep investigative inquiry):
The Saudis deny any role in 9/11, but the CIA in one memo reportedly found incontrovertible evidence that Saudi government officials not just wealthy Saudi hardliners, but high-level diplomats and intelligence officers employed by the kingdom helped the hijackers both financially and logistically. The intelligence files cited in the report directly implicate the Saudi embassy in Washington and consulate in Los Angeles in the attacks, making 9/11 not just an act of terrorism, but an act of war.
More...
http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/12/19/saudi-sized-cracks-in-the-911-wall-of-silence/
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)And the PNAC actually did suggest America needed a new Pearl Harbor attack to unite the nation.
It couldn't be more obvious.
Ellipsis
(9,124 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)I think it started with Iran-Contra. At least that far back. The same group of evil fuckers have been manipulating and stealing everything since they got away with obvious treason. They interfered with at least three different presidential elections too. Now they operate the NSA collecting every scrap of information on everyone while propagandizing the shit out of us constantly. Merry Christmas!
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)right!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)of what really is going on.
And I do agree that once the let the treasonous Iran/Contra criminals off the hook, they have only become worse and NOTHING they might have done would or should surprise anyone.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)who are religious fundamentalists, Wahabis, al qaeda sympathizers, etc. All is not well in the kingdom. The US is not liked outside of the powerful ruling family.
Chiyo-chichi
(3,581 posts)and if there truly is incontrovertible evidence that high-level Saudi diplomats and intelligence officers employed by the kingdom helped the hijackers both financially and logistically, I think the questions are" "were said diplomats and officers extradited, are they or were they ever in US custody, did the 9/11 Commission investigate them, and did any of them continue to hold the same high-level posts after 9/11?"
Of course, not having read the redacted information, I don't know, but I suspect the answer to the first three questions is "no."
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)The United States-Saudi relationship is based primarily on that fact. It's not a normal or a healthy relationship. We have little else in common with the people or culture of the country. They have lots of oil. We need lots of oil. It's more like a junkie-dealer relationship than a normal country-to-country exchange. The Saudi's have had an extraordinarily difficult time of keeping their own internal conflicts contained. It occasionally boils over in dramatic fashion. There are large ultra-conservative and fundamentalist elements of the population. The royal family are more or less "pragmatists". It is a situation that often teeters on the brink of instability.
There are without a doubt members of the ruling class who were and are supportive the goals of al Qaeda. I'd be extremely surprised if any of them were ever extradited to the United States for trial.
On edit : It would be interesting to see the unredacted documents. A better informed public can make better decisions about what policies to support or oppose. However, given all of the other pressing demands in this country, there are other places where I'd rather see strenuous efforts for transparency applied than on this issue. That's just me. I could be wrong.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)At the behest of the Dubya Administration.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)No one can ever prove they weren't.
That idea (US govt planned 9/11) is for me is what might be called a "dead hypothesis".
The more direct explanation, that al Qaeda attacked the World Trade Center in 1993 and again in 2001 to further their war against the United States, is a satisfactory explanation for the attack in my view.
You are obviously free to arrive at a different understanding without any need for approval from me.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)It was to the neocons' advantage that a major attack on the US occur. I do not believe that "they" manipulated anything. They just allowed the known terrorist plot to be executed.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)All they had to do was dismiss any intelligence they didn't want. Play dumb. That's what they did.
But I think there might have been a bit more to it. Who knows.
seattledo
(295 posts)It isn't logical that they would stick to their same lazy tactics for something so big.
I think they had a grand denial plan then poorly communicated it to their members.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Something happened that was not on the up and up.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)was denying a CIA agent's request to search one of the plotters computer before 911. I've forgotten the names of those involved. Anyway, it was as if the PTB believed what was in there might stop the attack, and did not want that to happen.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)But that one would be pretty obvious. I just know they were in on it in some capacity,
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)Jerry442
(1,265 posts)Not so much for the ones who lost their lives or their loved ones, or the rest of us who felt like our country was turning into something we didn't recognize anymore.
Roy Rolling
(6,917 posts)I hope the Saudis learned their lesson by us attacking Iraq and Afghanistan and bankrupting the U.S. in the process. That'll learn 'em.
WowSeriously
(343 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)cpwm17
(3,829 posts)and he doesn't like the US or the Bush administration. He wouldn't conspire with Bush to attack the US. Bush is Al Qaeda's enemy.
Anyone that was paying attention before 9-11 knew that there was a good chance that the US would be struck by a major terrorist attack, due to our foreign policy. With such knowledge one shouldn't accept such far-fetched and crazy ideas that Bush was actually behind 9-11.
The PNAC crowd knew that there was a good chance we would be attacked, and many of them appeared to be pleased. They had their own selfish agenda.
colbertforpresident
(241 posts)he didn't actually know that he was conspiring?
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)and when you get into the details, the level of complexity just keeps getting bigger.
Terrorism is an inevitable result of our foreign policy. No far-fetch conspiracies are required to explain 9-11. On 9-11 there were terrorists willing to die for their causes. That sure does simplify things for the terrorists.
Rumold
(69 posts)Bush is a dunce. this is fairly well documented. he was officially in charge of reading children's books, which he wasn't very good at either.
Cheney on the other hand knew very well what was going on. The Saudi's who financed the attacks on 9-11 were his best friends.
Berlum
(7,044 posts)Jerry442
(1,265 posts)...he flubbed his lines multiple times. Even a totally shit-faced SNL guest host could have done better.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Here's one video:
with the English transcript from Al Jazeera:
http://www.aljazeera.com/archive/2004/11/200849163336457223.html
If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example - Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don't possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 - may Allah have mercy on them.
No, we fight because we are free men who don't sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours...
This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known, and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of children - also in Iraq - as Bush Jr did, in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq's oil and other outrages.
So with these images and their like as their background, the events of September 11th came as a reply to those great wrongs, should a man be blamed for defending his sanctuary?
He may have denied responsibility when his life was at stake immediately after 9-11.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)as were several others through 2006 purporting to be from bin Laden. The actual interviews I mention took place in 2001, immediately after the attacks. I did not intend to suggest, however, that bin Laden was innocent, only that his guilt is uncertain. No hard evidence has ever been obtained connecting him to the attacks of which I am aware.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)so he had a reason to be fearful for his life. In 2004 he thought he was relatively safe. He did clearly take some credit.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)the one you posted.
Your opinion on these matters is in the minority, btw.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Aljazeera would likely spot a fake.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)as reports in the mainstream media in this country as to whether or not those videos were always bin laden or not.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21530470/#.UrtjrLQZso4
I didn't say it wasn't bin laden. What I said was it may have been or may not.
Regardless of whether is a grossly morphing bin laden appearing in those videos, he initially denied that he was involved and may well have decided later that claiming responsibility was in his best interest to further is agenda.
You will always be in the minority on this subject.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)especially this one: http://www.democraticunderground.com/11353759
It appears to be genuine, and Osama talks about his foreknowledge of 9-11 in the video.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)would they fake one without trying to make it look genuine? I know I watched King Kong destroy NYC a few years back and it looked very real too.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)and all evidence that isn't there hidden by the same conspiracy, you can believe in anything all evidence free. At some point you do require actual evidence for your beliefs or all you've got is a faith-based religion.
King Kong did look fake.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)than believe what known liars tell me using easily manipulated evidence. but what ever gets you through the night I guess. I'd rather err on the side of caution.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)loudsue
(14,087 posts)And here at DU, we connected the dots LONG before the media got involved in MIHOP and LIHOP.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Berlum
(7,044 posts)the Fox propaganda are in TOTAL DENIAL about it. They think Bill O'Reilly and the other overpaid Republicon Propagandists give a shit about America. If the RepubliSuckers ever wake up and face the truth, they are going to be pissed at Fox and all the other Republicon propaganda spigots who have been so consistently lying and spinning to them.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
loudsue
(14,087 posts)praise them for not going to war with Saudi Arabia....you know....whatever Newscorp tells them to think, they will think.
colbertforpresident
(241 posts)Bush covered up for the Saudis.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)fostered the operation. And they got away with it. Paid for by tax payers.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)We should stop supporting all of our phony allies. Saudi Arabia would be a good start.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)and the Bush administration did every thing they could to cover it up
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)with a complicit media.
Remember back. They would hardly allow a dissenting voice to be heard.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)To prevent racist, christian nationalist murders of innocent Arabs, Muslims and anyone the ignoratti see as them, as they can't or don't care about who was really up to no good on 9/11.
I remember not only the bullying and the attacks, but the outright murders of so-called Muslim terrorists. I don't want to see that happen again.
I don't see why, even if this is alleged to be the most liberating and game changing news release in history, that a pogrom, not of Jews but Muslims, would fail to take place in this country as the propagandists found a new scapegoat to get ratings. Let's not kid ourselves and think information will be used benignly or to enlighten and bring out the best in people.
The media has to power to incite a lynch mob, and has used it repeatedly. Many of us were never called out for anything more than our liberal minds,. The racism promoted, the vilification, denigration and disenfranchisement of millions of people in non-white ethnic groups is a real concern.
It would be naive to not take this into account and spinning a broad smear, or inventing more delicious fiction, as the media will do to Obama for not releasing this, doesn't make it any more true than other smears. Obama is responsible for the lives of millions as CinC. Not just the 'guilty' would be affected, but many innocents. One must think big picture.
IMHO, there is something to this. I am biased by my intense distrust for the Shrub and his running buddies, as I know their world view and PNAC. But that vision has failed to materialize as Obama resisted it.
As much as I would love to feel the vindication of my suspicions of what I consider to be vile cabal of repukes and their international allies, I am not willing to have the blood of American Muslims and people of color on my hands to justify my angst.
I believe American Muslims would not want this put out on hate radio 24/7 and on Faux, etc. That doesn't mean they want to protect the Saudis or approved of 9/11. Far from it. The luxury of those of us who would not affected by a repeat of the hate-filled atmosphere from those days in the BushCo era, is not something they can count upon. I'm thinking of them.
IDK when or how this can be released to the public. Just because DUers most assuredly would never bully or shoot Muslims after the WTC events, doesn't mean this information would not be used by shameless politic ans in the private and public sectors.
PBO and others got un redacted copies long, long ago. No doubt it effected his policy. Note some of the players given so much homage in the BushCo era are growling about the change. The reason is a different president at the helm. They know if they want to make mischief, they're on their own.
And by private, I mean politic ans such as Palin, Hannity, O'Reilly, Rush, Beck and the rest of the fascist media. They would love to have fresh red meat to throw to their Duck Dynasty masses.
By public, we know about McCain and the rest of the baggers. They'd love something to get their voting block voting against Democrats in 2014 for not releasing this now. We know that they would, but we may have to take the licks to save the lives of fellow citizens.
The hyping of this by media may not be timely for any purpose to do good, but to deflect from rightwing failures to address our core concerns. They hope that recycling this seminal event in this century can be used to once inflame the media both conspiracy and mainstream, against Obama, the Democratic Party and minorities.
An example of this from years past:
Wave of Hate Crimes Directed at Muslims Breaks Out
By Heidi Beirich on August 26, 2010
A string of attacks against Muslims and their religious centers has broken out over the past few weeks, apparently inspired by the protests in New York City over the planned Muslim community center and mosque near where the 9/11 attacks took place. Leaders of those protests have repeatedly made hateful statements against Muslims and Islam, with the National Republican Trust Political Action Committee, for example, saying the center is meant to celebrate [the] murder of 3,000 Americans.
The apparent resurgence of anti-Muslim hate crimes followed a long decline that began after a major outbreak in the immediate aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the World Trade Center (more below).
The most violent of these attacks took place on Tuesday in New York City, when 21-year-old film student Michael Enright allegedly attacked a cab driver. Police said that Enright cursed out the cabby after asking him if he was Muslim and then slashed his throat and stabbed him in several places when he answered in the affirmative. Enright was charged with hate crimes on Wednesday.
In California also on Tuesday, Imam Abdullah Salem arrived at the Madera Islamic Center to find two menacing signs, one of which read, Wake up America, the enemy is here. It was the latest in a recent string of attacks on the center, including a brick thrown at the building on Sunday and a sign posted the prior week that read, No temple for the God of terrorism at Ground Zero...
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/08/26/wave-of-hate-crimes-directed-at-muslims-breaks-out/
We've all known about the redacted pages for a decade now. And we can hardly fail to be interested in an act that was used to transform our nation into something worse than it ever was since the Civil War, and bankrupted us and is hurting generations.
So why is this being pushed in the media now, along with calls for more sanctions on Iran? Some for the 'right' and some for the 'left'? Not buying any criticism if it's not released. I'd like to see some of it released, but not as much as I'd like to protect innocent Muslims and POC here.
That's the meaning of 'Forward.' I wish that history was written much differently. We are still in danger from the same people that profited by the BushCo wars of aggression for profit. We can't forget the present.
JMHO.
treestar
(82,383 posts)There doesn't seem to be any particular advantage to them to be behind it, or to keep it secret if they were.
Jerry442
(1,265 posts)Couldn't have happened without the 9/11 attacks to provide an (admittedly thin) pretext for the U.S. to invade Iraq.
Berlum
(7,044 posts)The Republicons have occulted the truth about 9/11 from the git go. Time to bring it into the light of day.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Do I need to say more?
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)Lint Head
(15,064 posts)I'm talking about the Real Americans who know you bailed George W Bush "the little murdering torturing prick" out of a bankrupt oil deal. After which 3,000 innocent human beings were incinerated. Us so-called liberals who knew GWB and Dick Cheney were kissing your ass.
WowSeriously
(343 posts)wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)bobduca
(1,763 posts)johnnyreb
(915 posts)(Good overview, or just skip to 8:11 for the hand-holding music video):
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)James R Bath connects Bush, bin Laden, Petrodollars, BCCI & BFEE.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5446102
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)you have exactly correct. Bath helped bail Bush out with bin Laden money after on of his many failed business ventures.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)cheapdate
(3,811 posts)secretly conspired with elements of the Saudi government to bring about a series of major, mass-casualty, al Qaeda terrorist attacks against important symbolic targets in the United States, including the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. After a brief, diversionary, two-year invasion and land war in Afghanistan the real objective of their criminal enterprise was revealed; the invasion of Iraq.
adavid
(140 posts)that were arrested within hours after 911 on the George Washington bridge were Arabs, everyone and their uncle would know about it and be part of the 911 discussion.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)Many of us haven't forgotten that day and the mass slaughtering of poor people overseas while helpful for some apparently, did nothing for us. I still hold out faint hope we can hold those responsible accountable.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Ellipsis
(9,124 posts)It is an out there link... but none the less.
Nothing more cool then being alone on a lake with a lone loon at sunrise.