More than just about a Living Wage

[angrychair]

Last edited Tue Dec 24, 2013, 05:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Came across an interesting subject on HuffPost (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/19/vanessa-powell_n_4477341.html ). I know most don't like HuffPost but I only posted the link for context and reference as the subject is more the matter than the source. The article had to do with paying people earning a living wage and brought up an interesting, if unintended, sub-context in regards to education and types of jobs available to those with advanced degrees and if some jobs and people, are more worthy than others. The story revolved around a 27-year old women working at a Goodwill warehouse packing books for $9.75 an hour in the Seattle area. Though the story was meant to be about paying people a fair living wage, the aspect of the story that peaked the most interest from readers was her comments during the course of her giving her background. She had a B.A. in English and a MBA but stated that the only work she could find was at the Goodwill warehouse. A comment from her that really touched a nerve was her stating that she kind of felt, based on her education, that the warehouse job was a little beneath her but it was the only job she could find. My thoughts on her situation is that she could really use a mentor, which merits the statement and question I have further on in my writing.

She reaped a great deal of criticism from readers in the comments section for expressing that sentiment and that was all most readers focused on. That started me thinking though: do people with advanced degrees have a basis for feeling that certain jobs are "beneath" them? Do they "deserve" more than those that do not have the same level of education? While I don't agree with how she said it, I understand the place that it comes from. I say this because I have an A.S. and B.A. and will complete my MBA in 2014. Based on 2012 census data, Bachelor degrees are held by roughly 30% and Masters by roughly 11% of the U.S. population. People like her are in a rather exclusive group.

Here, I want to clearly state, I am on roughly the same page as Mike Rowe on this subject (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/23/mike-rowe-of-dirty-jobs-speaks-about-hard-work-how-many-are-following-the-worst-advice-in-the-history-of-the-world/ ). I think every job has value and that the types of jobs that most shun are the same types of jobs that modern society would collapse on itself without. I think that college is not for everyone and not having a degree is no recrimination on your character or value to society.

That being said, I think that if you put forth the effort to get an advanced degree that we, as a society, should have mechanisms in place to ensure we are utilizing that education for the greatest benefit of society. To put forth untold hours of effort, untold hours of labor from education professionals and tens of thousands of dollars in expense, you should have a path forward on the other end. It just seems to me we have put a lot of effort and thought into getting the education and little to no effort in what to do after it.
At the end of the day, there has to be some inherent value and benefit to obtaining an advanced degree to reflect the years of effort and cost involved in getting it. You cannot parity it with a person how failed to complete high school. Whatever job that high school dropout does has value to our society but the potential long-term benefit to our society lies in the hands of those with a foundation in a good education.

Yes, I know there are many examples of college and even high school dropouts that have contributed a great deal to society but these people are anomalies, way outside the norms of the average member of society, which is reflected in their level of achievement.
I am very interested in hearing how others feel on the subject. What do you think?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

1. Well, you got sand for posting Rowe and The Blaze, I'll give you that.

That said, having an advanced degree and having a need for that degree are two separate matters.

I wanted to be a writer. When I graduated I got a job as an admin assistant for a construction Project Manager. When the economy tanked the business suffered mightily. I survived the layoffs mostly because I was the cheapest to keep but had the aptitude to pick up other duties outside my position description.

As time went on I was made an assistant PM and was able to leverage the opportunities for a vastly significant income increase. I loved my job and adored my boss. Sadly, he retired not long ago. I miss working for him but I understand his decisions. Nonetheless he left me with a generous severance package and vastly expanded capabilities. Granted, they are not related to my original educational aspirations but a big part of life is making your own luck.

[angrychair]

2. I don't disagree

but, in that comment, lies part of the problem.
First off in regards to Mike Rowe, I don't agree with everything he says but I would find it very hard to believe that anyone here would have a reasonable argument to disagree with what he is saying in that article.
Secondly, with respect to "the blaze" ignorance is bliss I guess. I don't know a whole lot about it and it just happened to be one of the first sites to come up when I was looking for the Rowe interview. While I do have feelings about certain sites that are obvious right-wing nutjob sites, like Fox or Infowars, it seems at one time or another, over the years, I have heard people trash just about every news site on the Internet. There was no secret agenda or "tell" with referencing Rowe or the site I used for his interview. I agree with him in the context of the need and value of trades education and value of the job every person does, from shoveling cow manure to genetic engineering.

To your point that a lot of where people end up in life is "luck" and people making their own path, in that lies part of the problem. There is nothing wrong if that is how you got where you got but if that is the best we can offer our college graduates, luck and "figure it out", than we are doing them and society, no favors.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

5. "if that is the best we can offer ... we are doing them and society, no favors."

But that is the point. When I went looking for a job the world didn't need another writer no matter how bad I wanted to be a writer. I think I have things to offer society through my writing but unless I do it well enough to convince others of that fact what can I do? They are entitled to tell me that my services are not needed in the capacity I prefer to operate.

As fate would have it I convinced a very nice gentleman that I had something to offer when writing business correspondence. Many days were bland, tedious and made me scream inside my own head but it paid the rent and led to other opportunities.

But what if things hadn't turned out that way? How can I tell someone to pay me what I demand, not what they find of value to them?

"Hello, Mrs. Unicorn. I'm Mr. Bureaucrat from the Department of Employment."

"Um, hello."

"This is Celia."

"Hello, Celia."

"She's going to be your new au pair."

"I don't need an au pair."

"Well, here she is."

"I don't want an au pair."

"She's a very diligent worker."

"I'm sure she is but I don't even have any children."

"Well, you're in luck because the Department of Child Welfare is bringing a se t of triplets by later this afternoon, so it all works out."

"What?"

[angrychair]

8. I understand the point you are making

but not quite where I was going with my comments. Does the world need another writer? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Writing, like most artistic talents, is finding people that like what you do and developing and expanding from that fan base. Sadly, you are right, in that making that work depends on a lot of factors, that in the interim, don't put food on the table or a roof over your head. Doing one or the other is not a mutually exclusive prospect though, you can do what you have to do to pay the bills and still write because you like it. Put out what you like in the public domain and see if any of it takes. It might end up being a new career, it may not. You may even decide you don't actually like doing it as much as you thought you would. Not all dreams are full-filled but should at least be explored.

My bigger point is that we, as a society, are pushing an education on people that may not want or need it and at the same time, once their education is complete, pushing them out sea on an iceberg and telling them "good luck" with little or no regard to the amount of effort and time and money they spent to get that education. No, not everyone that got a degree put forth the same level of effort, the old "get a D, get a degree" kind of thing. Regardless, if you have a degree or not, it is not a measure of what we do but who we are as people.

[kelly1mm]

3. I find these sorts of stories and what is 'beneath' somone funny. I have a kind of

strange path myself. Grew up working class (truck driver dad, secretary mom), went to the army, GI billed an AA, then BA. Went to law school, got the JD, passed the bar, practiced law for 6 years full time and it totally sucked. Went to part time law (run a low income family law clinic for the state courts and do a bit of tax law) and now spend most of my time doing two 'demeaning' jobs. First is that I buy and then part out vehicles (only Italian autos, mostly Alfa Romeo) - very messy work when taking apart 20-50 year old cars. Second is that I process and sell firewood. Physically demanding work. Make the most money with the cars, second most with the firewood. However, especially with the firewood, I get some very strange reactions when/if people find out I am a lawyer. Sometimes, if they are also professionals, they ask how I was able to escape! (especially other lawyers).

[angrychair]

6. There, too, lies the rub

You spend a lot of time and effort getting an education that you think you want or that society tells you is a great job that will make you rich and when you get it, you find that it wasn't what you wanted out of life (as a lawyer working 16 hours a day, no real life outside of work, often no where near the pay you thought you would get and doing things and being exposed to people that test your personal value system more often than you care to think about- been known to hang with some corporate and defense lawyers in my day).
we have created a corporate-focused, capitalistic, Mcmansion, "I need a big screen" society that fixates us on a very narcissistic viewpoint of success.

[Wounded Bear]

4. I think that advanced degrees have been seriously devalued in recent years...

Partly it is the whole anti-intellectual strain of rhetoric from mostly the right, though some on the left contribute, too.

Meanwhile, politicians are touting 'education as a way out' of poverty, when anecdotal evidence, at the least, is pointing to a much darker reality. Given the impending bubble in school loans, it could very well be just the opposite in far too many cases.

Perhaps most importantly, though, is that so many of our educational institutions have been profitized. Much like our prison-industrial complex, our education-industrial complex is more interested in putting butts in the seats than in actually maintaining any degree of educational enlightenment or acedemic integrity. Frankly, the number of ads I see for fly-by-night colleges kind of sickens me.

Motivation matters, and if people are pursuing degrees solely for the purpose of expanding their earning potential, I see a lot of disappointed people, now and going forward. There's no passion in that.

[RainDog]

7. a request

would you please edit your post to create paragraph breaks with a space to make your post easier to read? thanks.

[angrychair]

9. Done. sorry about that. NT