Edward Snowden: 'I Already Won'-“If I defected at all, I defected from the government to the public”

[kpete]

Last edited Tue Dec 24, 2013, 01:45 PM - Edit history (3)

Edward Snowden: 'I Already Won'
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/edward-snowden-i-already-won

“If I defected at all,” Snowden said, “I defected from the government to the public.”

.................................


“For me, in terms of personal satisfaction, the mission’s already accomplished,” he said. “I already won. As soon as the journalists were able to work, everything that I had been trying to do was validated. Because, remember, I didn’t want to change society. I wanted to give society a chance to determine if it should change itself.”

“All I wanted was for the public to be able to have a say in how they are governed,” he said. “That is a milestone we left a long time ago. Right now, all we are looking at are stretch goals.”


“The oath of allegiance is not an oath of secrecy,” he said. “That is an oath to the Constitution. That is the oath that I kept that Keith Alexander and James Clapper did not.”

“I am not trying to bring down the NSA, I am working to improve the NSA,” he said. “I am still working for the NSA right now. They are the only ones who don’t realize it.”


Much MORE: (very,very insightful):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/edward-snowden-after-months-of-nsa-revelations-says-his-missions-accomplished/2013/12/23/49fc36de-6c1c-11e3-a523-fe73f0ff6b8d_story.html



*********************
MORE!!!!:

Snowden also responded to the charge that he did not have the authority to do what he did, that no one elected him to make these decisions and blow the whistle.

“That whole question — who elected you? — inverts the model,” he said.
“They elected me. The overseers.”
He named the chairmen of the Senate and House intelligence committees.

“Dianne Feinstein elected me when she asked softball questions” in committee hearings, he said. “Mike Rogers elected me when he kept these programs hidden. .?.?. The FISA court elected me when they decided to legislate from the bench on things that were far beyond the mandate of what that court was ever intended to do. The system failed comprehensively, and each level of oversight, each level of responsibility that should have addressed this, abdicated their responsibility.”
http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/12/24/edward-snowden-says-his-mission-is-accomplished/

Eugene Robinson writes a piece titled Edward Snowden was the person of the year, from which I quote his penultimate paragraph:

These ongoing disclosures provide a detailed map of a shadow realm that spans the globe. We now know how technology is destroying privacy — and what steps governments and communications companies must be pressured to take in order that privacy survives.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-edward-snowden-was-the-person-of-the-year/2013/12/23/34551caa-6c13-11e3-a523-fe73f0ff6b8d_story.html?hpid=z2

[Pholus]

1. "The NSA’s business is “information dominance,” the use of other people’s secrets to shape events."

But I thought it was about stopping terra.

That mission statement doesn't seem as wholesome somehow...

[ucrdem]

2. “I am still working for BAH right now."

Fixed it for ya Eddie.

[woo me with science]

3. Thank you, Edward Snowden.

K&R

[gordianot]

4. As I recall this person was a private contractor for the NSA.

The NSA has the burden of hiring him and giving him by contract the keys to the vault. Whatever else they have done the NSA by allowing this breach alone shows they cannot be trusted. How many times has this happened without revelations to the public?

[ucrdem]

17. Booz Allen Hamilton.

"The ownership data below do not include Carlyle and other insider holdings."

http://investors.boozallen.com/ownership-profile.cfm

[Aerows]

68. His point stands. The NSA isn't a worthy

keeper of the keys if they let something like this happen. I think 90% of the opposition to Snowden is not what he revealed, but that he revealed it at all. That has to embarrass the shit out of the NSA.

[Fuddnik]

5. Snowden deserves a Nobel Peace Prize.

He pulled the curtain back on the entire Military-Intelligence Complex.

Warren-Snowden 2016!

[kpete]

6. yep Fuddnik

and peace,
kp

[cantbeserious]

8. +1

eom

[jsr]

46. +1.

[mike_c]

72. agreed, 100 percent....

eom

[TekGryphon]

7. I'm able to appreciate Snowden while disliking him

I appreciate him pulling back the curtain, even if all signs point to him being a typical racist libertarian who discovered his "last straw" was having a black President.

[Broward]

10. What's your basis for that being his last straw?

[TekGryphon]

14. The fact that he was all gung-ho about national security while...

... we had a white President. Put a black man in office and all of a sudden it's "OMG I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE! I HATE WHAT MY GOVERNMENT HAS BECOME!"

[former9thward]

39. Making up shit.

Just like all the Snowden haters.

[former9thward]

47. Your garbage means has nothing to back up your claims.

You don't even link to anything.

[TekGryphon]

50. 3 seconds on Google would get you..

.. a hundred links to Snowden's Tea Party views. Have fun worshipping Glenn Beck Jr.

[former9thward]

59. Unlike your google my google is rational.

[zeemike]

12. All signs points to him being a patriot.

One who takes his oath to protect and defend the constitution and the rule of law by his actions.
Your signs are hearsay probably created by the people who want him dead or in prison..
Now which will I believe?...the choice is so hard.

[TekGryphon]

13. My signs are hearsay? Prove it.

Provide me ONE example of Snowden rebelling against the system when we had a white President.

[zeemike]

20. No no, that is not how it works.

The one that makes the claim is the one that has to prove it.
You cannot prove a negative.

But show us some facts...what year did he have access to this information?

[TekGryphon]

35. Oh, it's easy for me.

Prior to a "negro" gaining office Snowden's transcripts show that he was anti-whistle blower, anti-social security, and pro-NSA. He even went so far as to suggest punitive measures against whistle blowers attempting to undermine the NSA. He whined constantly that Obama was going to "steal his guns".

Snowden was gung-ho on national security while a white man was in office and he turned whistle blower the moment a black man became President.

Every single piece of evidence out there points to that conclusion.

I asked you to provide ONE piece of evidence that shows Snowden was concerned about the NSA and considering going whistle blower prior to a black man being in office.

You failed. You'll always fail, because you know he's a racist piece of shit.

[RC]

41. Snowden started work as a contractor for the NSA in 2009

How about some links to backup your points.

Snowden left the CIA in 2009 and began work for Dell, a private contractor, inside an NSA facility on a US military base in Japan .[15] Snowden remained on the Dell payroll until early 2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden

[TekGryphon]

45. And his transcripts show that:

Snowden was:

Pro NRA
Anti sensible gun regulation
Anti social security
Pro forcing old people to work until they die
Pro wire tapping
Anti whistle blower
Anti journalists covering whistle blowers

Like I said in the beginning. I appreciate what Snowden did even if I think his motives were bad and he's a scum of a person.

If YOU want to hero-worship someone who thinks party-line with Glenn Beck, that's YOUR problem.

[RC]

51. I do not understand how you can equate exposing unconstitutional wrong doing of the NSA with Glen Beck

That does not compute.
Snowden did something heroic and Patriotic. Yet you keep trying to demonize him at every turn because he was not a card carrying Liberal, or at least a 3rd Way Democrat. You keep down playing what Snowden did do. He exposed the unlawful and unconstitutional activities of the NSA and woke the whole world up to what our government is doing.

[TekGryphon]

52. He blew the whistle for one reason:

RACISM

Snowdens words, over and over, showed he was pro surveillance and anti whistle blowing during Bush's presidency.

[RC]

56. Snowden said he blew the whistle because our President is Black?

Really? When did Snowden say that?

[rhett o rick]

74. So what do you want done? Ignore the Constitutional violations because he is a racist?

I am guessing you represent the corporatist fascists.

Snowden pulled back the curtain exposing the NSA and you come to the defense of the NSA. You are on the wrong side of this class war.

[yodermon]

65. YOU are the one making the logical leap that it's *BECAUSE* "we have a black president"

that his opinions changed.
I may as well assert that he was just maintaining a certain online persona in those chat logs. Hell, I have as much evidence as you!

[ucrdem]

21. Or a patsy, or an asset,

or who the hell knows what exactly. Personally I don't want him dead but a very thorough investigation and trial are certainly warranted.

[zeemike]

22. And you can prove this how?

With speculation?...not born out by any facts?

Others have faced those things...from Salem to the HUAC...and now to Snowden...call them traitors, commies or witches and there will always be some who will believe it no matter what.

[ucrdem]

29. Call it due process then.

If he's such a patriot he should be champing at the bit. His parents incidentally have been lawyering up for months. Can't blame them.

[zeemike]

36. yes like all the accused commies were chomping at the bit

to get due process before the HUAC...or at the Salem Witch trials.
There is no due process when the system is rigged, and that fact was shown by the other whistle blowers that came before him.

[TekGryphon]

38. Good to know that Tea Party loons are Patriots according to you.

User: the restrictions were made to appease the conservatives to get another bill passed. fucking cons.
SNOWDEN: See, that's why I'm goddamned glad for the second amendment. Me and all my lunatic, gun-toting NRA compatriots would be on the steps of Congress before the C-Span feed finished.


SNOWDEN: save money? cut this social security bullshit
User11: hahahayes
User18: Yeah! Fuck old people!
User11: social security is bullshit
User11: let's just toss old people out in the street
User18: Old people could move in with [User11].
User11: NOOO
User11: they smell funny
SNOWDEN: Somehow, our society managed to make it hundreds of years without social security just fine
SNOWDEN: you fucking retards
SNOWDEN: Magically the world changed after the new deal, and old people became made of glass
SNOWDEN: yeah, that makes sense
User11: wow
User11: you are just so fucking stupid
SNOWDEN: yeah, [User11]. and you're quite a gem
User19: and magically, life expectancy has doubled in the last 100 years.funny how that works.
SNOWDEN: [User19], you don't think modern medicine has something to do with that? no? it's social security? wow. I guess I missed that.
User11: hurr wait a second, life expectancy has shot up in recent times along with the dissolution of the communal family unit in exchange for the nuclear family
User11: gee i guess we might need to create a safety net for the sudden glut of helpless elderly????
SNOWDEN: they wouldn't be fucking helpless if you weren't sending them fucking checks to sit on their ass and lay in hospitals all day
User11: you are so goddamned stupd*pid
User11: PUT OLD PEOPLE TO WORK IN THE FIELDS
SNOWDEN: my grandmother is eighty fucking three this year, and you know what? she still supports herself working as a goddamned hairdresser


SNOWDEN: HOLY SHIT
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/washington/11iran.html?_r=1&hp
SNOWDEN: WTF NYTIMES
SNOWDEN: Are they TRYING to start a war?
Jesus christ
they're like wikileaks
User19: they're just reporting, dude.
SNOWDEN: They're reporting classified shit
User19: shrugs
SNOWDEN:
User19: meh
SNOWDEN: moreover, who the fuck are the anonymous sources telling them this?
SNOWDEN: those people should be shot in the balls.


SNOWDEN: these are the same people who blew the whole "we could listen to osama's cell phone" thing the same people who screwed us on wiretapping over and over and over again [sic] Thank god they're going out of business.
User19: the NYT?
SNOWDEN: Hopefully they'll finally go bankrupt this year.
yeah.

[zeemike]

63. Well let me explain something to you if I may.

I don't give a fuck what Snowden's politics were then or are now...I judge him by what he did, which was to tell us we were in a surveillance state the equals of which do not exist in history...and he gets credit for that no matter what his politics are...and that is what is fair.
And I would give Rush limpballs the same credit if he were to do something as important as that.

I am not one who will fall for that false dichotomy of with us or against us...that is the basic tactic of right wingers to get people to act against their own interist...like "liberals are for Social Security so you have to be against it or we will start calling you a commie liberal"

And we are seeing this same thing trying to be used here at DU...but frankly it is not working all that well...at least not on me.

[riderinthestorm]

66. How do you know that poster in your link is Snowden?

Your link is only to a newspaper story. The rest of your post is unsourced.

[treestar]

9. Oh how nice of him to give us that chance!

We do have a set of laws that were passed by our Constitution, so we didn't need his help.

[gtar100]

27. Everything was going along fine with that process before Snowden came along, wasn't it!

Our Constitutional laws are exactly what are being violated right now. Without Snowden's revelations, the charges of spying on such a massive scale would be met by the CT police here and not taken seriously enough to be investigated anywhere.

From your statement I would infer that you'd rather we didn't know about the illegal activities of the NSA. That is a choice you can make but I don't think that sentiment is shared by many. At least with the cat out of the bag we have an opportunity to fix the NSA so that it really does work in the interest of the people and our liberties. We don't have to do what republicans typically do with agencies they see a problem with and try to destroy it. No, the real answer is to fix what's broken and make it better. And with so much out in the open now, we have a much better chance at implementing real solutions rather than bandaid solutions designed simply to stop the leaks.

[treestar]

28. He could have used the whistleblower protection act

or stayed here to make his point.

As constitutional questions go, it's not as big a deal as people here make it. We do have freedom to question the government. Eddie should have obeyed our law. We have a very free country, and he even had avenues to complain that he didn't like metadata on phone calls in government hands, even with a FISA warrant.

That people have to exaggerate to make this point shows they have no point.

There is a lot the government does re national security we don't know. The bigger threat to our rights is always in police actions, but they can be challenged under the 4th Amendment in public court.

[mindwalker_i]

42. Hldhave ended up in Gitmo

I know it, you know it, STFU.

[treestar]

62. Baloney

That is a fantasy of the drama-stirrers. No one new is going there and the only people there were put there by Bush. He was charged with crimes for which he would have been tried in federal court. If found guilty, which is not certain, he'd get a term in federal prisons.

[gtar100]

58. On paper, yes those options were available. But I have seen no evidence that those laws have been

working for us. There is far too much corruption in our government to have something of this nature be taken seriously, except of course to figure out a way to stop the leaks. Even with the extent of what has been revealed what I hear and see is a government that is begrudgingly making steps toward reform, not one that is embracing the right thing to do. You may have more faith and trust in the processes as they function today but as much as I wish I could, I haven't seen any reason to believe they would have worked in this particular case with what Snowden has revealed. It is a judgment call for one being in such a position and by the looks of what has happened already, it appears the choice to release the data to the public has been effective. But ultimately, the people in charge will either decide to fix things in a way to protect our civil liberties or they will learn a different lesson and figure out how to prevent future leaks of evidence of illegal practices. I'm not holding my breath for either option. It's far too complicated for simple platitudes and my influence is limited to commentary on message boards. But I hope we end up with a more effective NSA that does not abuse its powers or violate our civil liberties.

[treestar]

64. I have little doubt he'd have been tried in federal court

and possibly found not guilty. If found guilty, he would have gotten a sentence as provided for under the laws he was found guilty under. This would take place under full media scrutiny.

Had he used the WPA provisions, he might not even have been charged.

If our government is that corrupt, one should be against single payer or it having socialistic power to do anything. But it's not that bad, as we have freedom of speech and people who abuse their power can end up in the news. This absurdly black view seems to take on a life of its own.

[grasswire]

30. are you freaking kidding?

I guess you forgot the sarcasm smilie.

[treestar]

33. You've constructed a strange world in your head

Some of the things people say here are astounding. How dare anyone disagree with what Eddie did!

Exaggeration constructed and added to more exaggeration makes for a belief system that is as flawed as any right winger's.

Reality, people. The government is not reading your email.

[former9thward]

43. "The government is not reading your email"

Director of National Intelligence Clapper said under oath data was not being collected on Americans. A few months later he said data on telephone calls was being collected on millions of Americans. Clapper: "I responded in what I thought was the most truthful, or least untruthful manner by saying no."

[rhett o rick]

75. And whose side are you on in this class war? You seem to worship the authoritarian

state of Clapper and Alexander and disparage whistle-blowers. Seems to me you side with the 1%.

[liberal_at_heart]

11. He won in that he was able to give us information they didn't want us to have. As far as us having

a say in how we are governed, that's kind of hard to ensure when you have an oligarchy and authoritarian government.

[Uncle Joe]

15. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[ProSense]

16. "I am not trying to bring down the NSA..."

“I am not trying to bring down the NSA, I am working to improve the NSA,” he said. “I am still working for the NSA right now. They are the only ones who don’t realize it.”

That's weird, and this doesn't sound like he "won":

But Snowden knows his presence here is easy ammunition for critics. He did not choose refuge in Moscow as a final destination. He said that once the U.S. government voided his passport as he tried to change planes en route to Latin America, he had no other choice.

It would be odd if Russian authorities did not keep an eye on him, but no retinue accompanied Snowden and his visitor saw no one else nearby. Snowden neither tried to communicate furtively nor asked that his visitor do so. He has had continuous Internet access and has talked to his attorneys and to journalists daily, from his first day in the transit lounge at Sheremetyevo airport.

“There is no evidence at all for the claim that I have loyalties to Russia or China or any country other than the United States,” he said. “I have no relationship with the Russian government. I have not entered into any agreements with them.”

[Uncle Joe]

23. Snowden is not referring to a personal win but a win for the cause.

Furthermore if the NSA is reformed to stay within Constitutional guidelines, it will be improved as will our democratic republic.

[ProSense]

25. He said

"Snowden is not referring to a personal win but a win for the cause."

..."I." As for it being "personal":

“For me, in terms of personal satisfaction, the mission’s already accomplished,” he said. “I already won.

And given the tone of the piece, this is still weird :

“I am not trying to bring down the NSA, I am working to improve the NSA,” he said. “I am still working for the NSA right now. They are the only ones who don’t realize it.”

[Uncle Joe]

31. You're taking the "I" word too literally and the last paragraph

no doubt speaks truth.

The NSA like any other entrenched governmental bureaucracy wants to maintain or have expanded power and resources ie:money flowing to it. They or at least the ones at the top will fight or lobby for more whether they actually need it or not.

When our democratic republic is strengthened as Snowden is alluding to by living within and respecting the American Peoples' Constitutional (civil) rights all aspects of the government in general is more empowered as well whether they know it or not because the American People have more faith, inclusion and participation to support the government.

The alternative is a growing disenfranchisment, alienation or disconnection of the American Citizen from "We the people" turning us in to suspects first, this in turn weakens our government making our entire enterprise much more unstable.

[ProSense]

44. No, I think you want this to be another gem from Snowden, but

it seems self-serving, and his point that he didn't choose to get stuck in Russia is still laughable.

[Uncle Joe]

48. You took the "I already won" out of context, if you include the rest of the paragraph,

it doesn't take a great leap of logic to know what Snowden is talking about.

“For me, in terms of personal satisfaction, the mission’s already accomplished,” he said. “I already won. As soon as the journalists were able to work, everything that I had been trying to do was validated. Because, remember, I didn’t want to change society. I wanted to give society a chance to determine if it should change itself.”

[Cha]

70. It's very creepy and pure Snowden.. mahalo

Pro Sense.

[rhett o rick]

76. Of course you side with the authoritarians state of Clapper and Alexander, who are not DEMOCRATS.

You disparage whistle-blowers because you support the status quo and the authoritarian state. Corporate fascism.

[snot]

18. K&R'd!

He won because his goals were greater than himself, and he achieved those goals.

[PowerToThePeople]

19. A rolling stone gathers no moss

This is still going to be a very long fight, possibly decades more. We can not let the light that has been shined go dark. Look at what is currently happening to the Iraq invasion. Based on lies. We all know it. It is growing lots of moss. Nothing is going to happen to the war criminals as this point in time. Nothing. We have to keep up the fight or this NSA thing all will go away quietly too.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. The world won. Thanks to Snowden.

[Scuba]

26. Hero, patriot, defender of the Constitution. Thank you Edward Snowden.

[grasswire]

34. He's akin to the Chinese man in Tienamin Square

One body against a giant tank.

[stupidicus]

32. I always thought that inevitable

given the high likelihood of illegalities, etc, involved.

I suspect that inevitably his detractors will be feeling kinda foolish since the emperor's nakedness can no longer be denied, and the remedies sought and acquired justify his efforts as a result. It appears that about the only thing they (keyboard warriors) have left in an effort to ameliorate the damage to their egos stemming from being so abysmally wrong on most of it from the beginning, is the idea that he should have made himself available for the kinda justice the guilty in this case would still love to dispense.

Apparently the nobility of an effort is determined by the willingness or not of the individual to be a sacrificial lamb in the very same kangaroo court they are trying to dismantle - you know, where that type have sat proudly as wouldbe jurors while sucking the thumb of the hangin judge.

[ucrdem]

37. merry xmas kpete!

Your threads are always stimulating and always a treat!

p.s. props and happy hollies to everyone else too but I've been saying that since thanksgiving....

[kpete]

53. ucrdem

why thanks,

peace to you and yours as well,
kp

[bvar22]

49. The Whistle Blowers are the protectors of our Democracy!

I can see why some here hate them so much.


Rampant Government Secrecy and Democracy can NOT co-exist.

Persecution of Whistle Blowers and Democracy can NOT co-exist.

Thank You, Edward Snowden and all the others.
I hope I would have your courage under the same circumstances.

[MADem]

54. Whole lotta "I" and "me" in all that.

His paw should send him some thinsulate long underwear--those Russkie winters are brutal....

[politichew]

57. I noticed that. Narcissism is amusing. nt

[ronnie624]

79. He was asked "to reflect at length on the roots and repercussions of his choice."

If you're answering questions about yourself, you tend to use the pronouns, 'I' and 'me'.

"His paw should send him some thinsulate long underwear--those Russkie winters are brutal...."

I'm certain that is supposed to belittle him in some small, irrelevant way, but I don't understand how.

[MADem]

80. Not "small and irrelevant"--it's precisely the point.

I also think he needs ballistic drawers, since he always thought leakers should be shot in their 'two veg.'

So, what you're saying is that, indeed, it's "All About Ed?" The "roots and repercussions of his choice" I mean?

I'm just thinking that if Ghandi was asked the same questions back when he was fighting British Imperialism, he'd spend a little more time talking about the people affected by their circumstances, not a load of "I, I, I" and "Me, me, me." But hey, whatever.

Where he screwed up was getting in bed with the Russians in the first place. I hope they're paying him well--something a bit more than 30 pieces of silver. He's the flavor of the month right now, but it won't be long before he's past his sell-by date. As Pootie continues to surveille his own people and brutally oppress them as well, the whole "Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas" question will have to be asked.

Ed could have gone to his ideological soul mate, Rand Paul, and laid these issues all out before him. Of course, Ed would have to remain in the shadows; Rand would get all the glory, and he'd be the Paul Revere of the Senate with a Thumb Drive. No riches for Greenwald, et.al., no lucrative arrangements with Koch-associated types...just anonymity and maybe unemployment.

Darn those Cubans for not cooperating with Pootie and letting Eddie fly to the sunshine of South America! I wouldn't be surprised at all if what Raul Castro actually said was "You're quite welcome, Barack" at that memorial service for Madiba....

[politichew]

55. That KGB asset should have the decency to stay out of the media during our nation's holidays. nt

[Pholus]

60. Yes, otherwise it might be taken as a "War on the Holidays."

Amusing...

[riderinthestorm]

67. Now Snowden is contributing to the war on Christmas? !

This has got to be a new low!

[Pholus]

69. :) I know, right? nt

[Cha]

71. Eddie needed a fix. nm

[rhett o rick]

77. And you stand with Booz-Allen against those that dare to desire freedom and liberty.

Interesting that you seem to side with the Republicans that also love Clapper and Alexander and hate Snowden and freedom.

Corporate fascism comes to mind. It appears you are on the wrong side in our class war. Do you think the wealthy will be kind to you?

[mike_c]

73. it's my nation too...

...and I think the more we hear from Edward Snowden, the better. Sunlight being the best disinfectant and all that.

[gulliver]

61. “All I wanted was for the public to be able to have a say in how they are governed,” he said.

You just can't make this stuff up.

[MADem]

81. Geez...why didn't he go to his hero, Rand Paul, on the Senate Intel Committee?

He could have had his cake, and eaten it too!

Of course, Rand would get all the glory, not Eddie....

[idwiyo]

78. k&r