Italian protester's kiss was 'sexual violence'

[The Straight Story]

Italian protester's kiss was 'sexual violence'


The woman who kissed a riot policeman during protests near the northern Italian city of Turin in November has been detained for "sexual violence" and "offence to a public official".

Franco Maccari, the Secretary General of Coisp, the Italian police officers' union, said during an interview on Radio24 that he had pressed charges against the demonstrator who kissed an officer's helmet. The kiss took place during a protest march against controversial plans for a new high-speed TAV train line.

He explained that if it had happened the other way round, with a police officer kissing a protestor, “World War Three would have broken out.”

At the time, Nina De Chiffre, the 20-year-old protestor from Milan, told La Stampa “I wanted to make fun of them (the police), and I would say that we were successful.”

Indeed, the photo was shared in newspapers and websites worldwide, though at first it was interpreted as a message of peace and reconciliation.

http://www.thelocal.it/20131212/italian-protesters-kiss-was-sexual-violence

[Harmony Blue]

1. This is what happens when the slipper slope

is considered. All human contact now is potentially considered sexual violence. How sad.

[seabeyond]

9. what are you suggesting? there should not be sexual assault laws? nt

[Bonobo]

13. Are you saying this is NOT sexual assault?

[seabeyond]

14. "This is what happens when the slipper slope" i replied to this. you are in left field

[Bonobo]

16. No, you did not answer my question.

Are you saying that a woman kissing a male police officer without his permission is NOT sexual assault?

[seabeyond]

17. no. i did not answer your question. excellent observation. i do not have to answer your question.

the poster said " This is what happens when the slipper slope". so i ask, what is he suggesting with this statement.

[Bonobo]

18. I can see why it would be problematic to answer.

And I really didn't expect an honest answer from you, so I am not disappointed.

[seabeyond]

20. firstly it is not a challenge to answer. secondly, are you suggesting i am a liar?

fuck that shit bonobo.

[Bonobo]

21. Not at all.

Refusing to answer a question because it would reveal one's hypocrisy is not the same as lying.

[seabeyond]

23. and you know that is why i did not give an answer? again... fuck that shit bonobo.

i get to choose what i want to discuss. this picture or the article that goes with it is not a subject i have any interest in discussing.

a poster saying that sexual assault is a slippery slop interests me. hence my question asking for clarification.

you do NOT get to demand that i discuss a subject i have NO interest in discussing.

calling me a liar and a hypocrite is just fuckin bullshit and shamefully bullying tactics.

[Bonobo]

25. I didn't call you either.

You did not lie nor did you reveal any hypocrisy.

You managed to avoid both by refusing to answer an uncomfortable question.

[seabeyond]

29. whata piece of work you are. you say because i did not succumb to your bullying tactic of trying to

shame me in a direction of conversation you wanted me to go, i could not because i would lie, be a hypocrite and now this post reinforces exactly that with more stupid ass innuendo about my character. a real fuckin piece of work bonobo.

it is not an uncomfortable question. it is not a tough answer. it is one i refuse to answer now simply cause of your disgustingly shameful manner in addressing me.

but i do get that your buddy cant answer how having sexual assault laws create a slippery slope.

[Bonobo]

34. It's hilarious that you think my very simple question was bullying.

Talk about super fragile... lol.

I cannot fathom how anyone could call my question bullying but I guess mileage varies.

[seabeyond]

39. calling me a liar, a hypocrite, that i cannot answer a question, demanding i do or you insult my

character is absolutely bullying and you know it. you can try to change up your interaction in this little subthread but i told you i had no interest in the subject and you continued insulting me trying to get me to answer a question when i said no.

[Bonobo]

42. Look, it's very simple.

The question I asked is one which would be difficult to answer without revealing a double standard.

I suspected you did have such a double standard which is why I posed the question.

You CONFIRMED my suspicion by not answering the question, but I did not call you a liar or a hypocrite.

In fact, I studiously said that you managed to avoid being seen as either a liar or a hypocrite (by ducking the question)

But, sea, even if you DID reveal a double standard (like I suspect you might if you had answered), it would not be the end of the world.

Maybe it is just something you should consider food for thought.

M'kay?

[seabeyond]

45. pathetic

[Bonobo]

47. That's a post I can completely agree with.

You are in a thread about sexual harassment. Joined of your own free will, accusing OTHERS of not sticking to the subject and you refuse to even answer the most obvious question about the entire OP.

It IS rather pathetic.

[xulamaude]

80. Crazy making.2

Where's your bat?

[msanthrope]

120. You are not being bullied. You are being schooled. There's a difference. nt

[seabeyond]

121. reducing oneself calling people names to shame them into doing something? nothing schooled there

msanthrope. but, good to see you throw yourself in the middle of it.

i betcha you think this is all about 'schooling" me too. fail.

[msanthrope]

123. You mean like when you insisted on using sexist names towards me?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024073698

Ok.

[pintobean]

124. I think you hit a nerve

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125532678

[msanthrope]

125. Yah...no kidding. nt

[seabeyond]

126. not really pinto. it is all about educating. and if people are not aware, resolutions do not

happen. but your response is a perfect example of my point. yea... take it to battle. throw a punch. did it bloody the nose? what a stupid ass game to play.

do, carry on.

[pintobean]

127. I don't think many DUers

outside that meta echo chamber see you as an educator.

[seabeyond]

128. you do not know one way or another. and you certainly have prejudice where that is concerned.

[pintobean]

129. I can see the feedback

just like everybody else. This is a discussion board, not a school.
It's kinda funny that a self-anointed teacher is getting suspended.

[seabeyond]

130. you might want to discuss this with skinner. not us. by his own words. educate. nt

[pintobean]

131. Maybe you can come up with

some better lesson plans during your break. Making everything a battle hasn't been working.

[seabeyond]

132. i have said what i wanted to say pinto. i am not playing a game.

happy holidays... good sunday to you.

[Harmony Blue]

22. She is holding the man's head

so this does make the story have more merit.

[madinmaryland]

24. So are you saying that this woman who is kissing the helmet of a law enforcement officer

is guilty of sexual assault?

Really?

[Bonobo]

26. No.

And if a man kissed a female police officer in exactly the same way, that wouldn't be sexual assault either.

Right?

[madinmaryland]

28. "in exactly the same way". yes.

[Bonobo]

31. So we agree!

That was easy!

[Warpy]

36. Excuse me? This was contact without permission

and the intent was to humiliate the target. I'd say that was assault.

I'd advise looking up "consent" and finding out how important it is.

[seattledo]

50. If the cop did it, it most certainly would be.

The problem is that someone that doesn't oppress people for a living did it. That's different.

[Warpy]

54. Would you say the same if it was a male protestor

grabbing a female cop's ass?

[Comrade Grumpy]

52. So, if you had your druthers, would you be moving forward with charges in this case?

[jazzimov]

106. "slippery slope".

The metaphor is one of when you step onto a slippery slope and end up sliding off the cliff.

If you are going to use common phrases, please get them correct.

-your friendly local grammar Nazi.

[Harmony Blue]

119. Thanks

I forgot the y at the end haha.

[1000words]

2. Wasn't that established with the actions of some six year-old in Colo.?

The posse will be here shortly to remind us ...

[LittleBlue]

3. This is going to backfire in Italy

I realize the point that the union chief is trying to make, but he's just making this young man the butt of many jokes.

[newcriminal]

4. She kissed his helmet shield.

I don't think it was "sexual violence". If she had kissed him I might feel differently.

[Recursion]

109. She also licked her fingers and tried to put them in his mouth

The kiss was just what was in the famous photo.

[newcriminal]

117. I looked that up after reading your post

and if a man did that to me I would be furious. I would agree with the charge. The only conflict is he's a stinking cop.

[Harmony Blue]

122. If that is the case that takes it a whole new level

[Recursion]

133. That's the allegation, at least

Not saying it must be true, just that what's alleged is more than simply a kiss.

[NaturalHigh]

145. Ugh...that's a different twist.

Not only is that gross, but it does make it a crime if it's true. Since there is a picture of the helmet kiss, I wonder if there is a picture or video of the finger-licking thing.

[Scootaloo]

5. Will the helmet be receiving paid leave while it recovers from the trauma? n/t

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

6. Silly

[Upton]

7. Well remember awhile back....

we had DUers, though small in number, actually claim this famous photo was sexual assault..Sometimes I think the world has gone stark raving mad..

[seabeyond]

8. you are suggesting grabbing a strange woman, holding tight so she cant get away, and kissing her

is ok?

exactly that. do you often grab a strange woman, hold her and kiss her? how does that work for you upton?

[Upton]

11. So, now you can now read the mind of a woman from 60 years ago?

I don't see anything in that photo suggesting she was trying to get away. Looks like she's enjoying herself to me. They're celebrating the end of WW II for God's sakes. Stop trying to rewrite history to fit your agenda...

[seabeyond]

12. do you often grab a strange woman, hold her and kiss her? how does that work for you upton?

[Upton]

27. All the time..and it works just swell...

You really need to lighten up some. It's as if you have a permanent chip on your shoulder...and you're always assuming the worst. Men aren't all bad you know...and not everything needs to be interpreted as an assault upon women.

[madinmaryland]

30. Whoa!

cboy lets you get away with that??

[Upton]

33. Yep..

he and I are on the outs.

[madinmaryland]

37. Dude! You gotta stop hanging out with trumad!

[The Straight Story]

35. Just don't hold open any doors

[NaturalHigh]

44. No kidding.

The "door opening" thing really went nuclear a few months back.

[BainsBane]

70. Now I know your shit stirring is deliberate

Last edited Sun Dec 22, 2013, 12:18 AM - Edit history (1)

and mal-intentioned since you have repeatedly been shown the entire door story was fabricated by anti-feminists.

There is a lot of talk about outrage.

Yet it's not feminists who are outraged at this story, or at laws against sexual assault. It's not feminists that whine constantly about how awful it is they are so oppressed that they actually have to seek consent before touching another person. It's not feminists who are outraged that someone dares express a point of view that challenges their privilege, and it's not feminists who post stories for no purpose other than stirring up shit. It's not feminists that go throughout the board seeking revenge against rape victims for having the nerve to report a certain military defendant. It's not feminists who express such distaste for half of humanity they have "opted out" of contact with them in favor of porn.

I therefore make a plea to anyone with a mental age over 8 to ignore this and similar threads in the future since they serve no purpose other than creating flame wars and enabling a few individuals with juvenile mentalities to pout, stomp, and complain about how awful it is that they have to be confronted with women who speak their minds, or worse yet, think women have a right to decide who touches them. Let the boys play with themselves.

So by all means, continue with what you all do best.

[MattBaggins]

74. Did you think he comes here for anything else?

[seabeyond]

38. it is known she was walking back from lunch. the man grabbed her, held her, kissed her. that

simple.

and quit making fuckin persona assumptions about me, and quit making personal attacks. grow the fuck up. talk about the issue. quit attacking who i am.

[Upton]

40. A little defensive aren't we?

Could it be I hit a nerve? Lay off the playing the victim shit..it's most unbecoming, even if it is par for the course.

[seabeyond]

41. chip on shoulder, assuming worst, not all men bad, every assault, hit a nerve, quit playing victim,

par for course, lighten up.

all your posts are, are personal insults and attacks. so do not fuckin tell me what i need to do.

simple enough. she is walking down the street, he grabbed her, he kiss her. address what was actually posted instead of three posts insulting people

[Upton]

49. Okay, I've got a question then..

Truman had just announced the end of the war..a spontaneous celebration broke out in Times Square, leading to the kiss and a photo that has been treasured for decades. Why do you feel the need to trash it?

[MattBaggins]

76. Because it is a photo that shouldn't be treasured

It is never OK to grab a woman and do that. Don't give a flying fuck who declared an end to whatever. It does not give you the right to do such things ever.

Is that hard for you to understand? Surprise surprise an old time picture from bygone days where it was perfectly OK to assault women is treasured by you.

[redqueen]

105. Thank you.

It's really good to see the beginning of the end of the kneejerking, defensive rationalization of this man's actions.

Kissing a helmet is in no way similar, but I'm so not surprised to see some that were frothing at the mouth defending the WWII pic now having apoplectic fits over a young woman kissing a fucking helmet.

Satan wrap is less transparent.

[Comrade Grumpy]

43. I will do it the next time I'm in uniform and we win a world war. Until then, not so much.

[seabeyond]

48. so grabbing a strange woman, holding her where she cant get away, and kissing her is not ok.

but, it is ok for you to do that to a woman if you fight a war?

[NaturalHigh]

51. Was she trying to get away?

I've never heard that from anyone? Are you alleging that he was holding her against her will? Do you have any proof of that? Have you ever heard or read a quote from this woman saying that she was held against her will? Do you even know her name, or are you just trying to stir up a suitable level of outrage?

[The Straight Story]

57. What the lady in the pic said about it:

She isn’t sure how long she was standing there; maybe minutes. “And then I was grabbed,” she says. “That man was very strong. I wasn’t kissing him. He was kissing me.”

Just as suddenly, he let her go. George stumbled off towards the subway, Rita trailing behind, and Greta walked back to her office. George and Rita never discussed the kiss, nor did Greta tell anyone what had happened to her.

Back then, it was just one of those things: “Obviously, to do that today — it’s not such a good idea,” says Lawrence Verria, co-author of “The Kissing Sailor.” “But in Times Square, 1945, they hear the war’s over — it’s not such a bad idea.”

None of them knew they had just been photographed by Eisenstaedt, that their picture was about to be published in Life magazine, or that, decades later, multiple men and women would come forward claiming to be that sailor and that nurse.

http://nypost.com/2012/06/17/the-true-story-behind-the-iconic-v-j-day-sailor-and-nurse-smooch/

[NaturalHigh]

59. Thank you for the link.

Multiple men and women would come forward claiming to be that sailor and that nurse.

Apparently a lot of people weren't too offended by the picture.

[Comrade Grumpy]

61. Oh, Good Christ.

But okay:

I think we can agree on the general proposition that "grabbing a strange woman, holding her where she can't get away, and kssing her is not ok."

As regards to that particular image, it is iconic, and I have never before heard anyone interpret it as sexual assault. (Something about "if all you have is a hammer..." comes to mind.)

As for whether I think "it is ok to do that to a woman if you fight a war," you can sleep a bit easier tonight because I'm old and have no plans to fight a war.

But that's not what I said. I said I might do it next time I was in uniform and we had a won a war. If I were the guy in the photo, yes, I might have done just the same thing. Swept up in the emotion and elation of the moment, and all that. I would hope that the woman would take it in the spirit of joy and happiness it was offered, and not have me prosecuted for sexual assault. But, yeah, on that occasion, I might just take that risk.

The world has more than one-dimension.

[MattBaggins]

77. That picture is iconic

Doesn't make it right

[MattBaggins]

79. Really? The spirit and joy?

You have so little self control you feel it would be OK to grab a stranger and forcibly kiss her?

[Comrade Grumpy]

90. I don't actually have you on ignore, but I am ignoring you. Scoot, now.

[historylovr]

78. I don't see anything in that photo that suggests she was enjoying herself.

Her stance looks stiff and shocked rather than excited and happily engaging in a celebratory snog.

[Scootaloo]

81. Well, to be fair...

Mrs. Greta Friedman (Zimmer, at the time of the photo) seems to not be bothered in the least by it, then or now;

"I can't think of anybody who considered that as an assault," said Friedman, who exchanges Christmas cards with Mendonsa every year and has appeared with him at several reunion events. "It was a happy event."

http://www.navytimes.com/article/20121019/NEWS/210190332/

[NaturalHigh]

82. "It was a happy event."

Gee...that pesky fact will get a few heads popping.

[seabeyond]

83. and this is all anyone is saying about the picture. as bummer as it is, it is ... reality

"Are you people LISTENING to yourselves?" a reader wrote. "If your son, sailor or not, grabbed a strange woman he'd never met in his life and forced himself on her, he'd go to JAIL. I don't care whether he was ‘celebrating' or not."

Leopard, who only said she began to think of the kiss as sexual assault after hearing Friedman's account of the event, said people need to stop romanticizing the image as a first step to recognize a woman's right to her own body.

"I'm not saying that we should downplay the exuberance of V-J Day at all. I'm also not trying to vilify George for something he did 67 years ago, in a time where there was less awareness of women's rights," the blogger wrote in an email. "If we ignore the fact that this kiss was not mutual, and insist on calling it romantic, then we send out the message that a woman's bodily autonomy is not that important, and can be sacrificed under special circumstances."

[NaturalHigh]

84. Ms. Friedman didn't think it was an assault.

"I can't think of anybody who considered that as an assault," said Friedman, who exchanges Christmas cards with Mendonsa every year and has appeared with him at several reunion events. "It was a happy event."

Anyone who takes her experience and tries to paint her as a victim is just trying to use her...against her will, I would guess by her comments.

[seabeyond]

85. it was in the fuckin 1940's. duh. nt

[NaturalHigh]

86. For someone who always complains about...

someone being rude or insulting you personally, most of your comments are incredibly rude.

As for the date of the photo, I have a bachelor's degree in history and government. Yeah, I think I know the date, but thanks anyway.

[seabeyond]

89. where did i say a damn thing about rude? oh wait, i didnt. where did i personally insult you?

oh, wait... didnt do that either.

you knowing when v-day happened is irrelevant. the relevancy in the date is in knowing that there was little to no recognition of sexual assault back in the 40's. and there seems to be little of that awareness today, in 2013.

[NaturalHigh]

94. I believe I said something about you complaining that you were being personally insulted.

"can any of you men ever disagree without insulting or personally attacking a woman, ever...."

Yes, your posts are incredibly rude for the most part, but it's nothing new. You see some sort of male-dominated agenda aimed at debasing women in everything.

Fire away, take your best shot. I'm done for the night. Bye.

[seabeyond]

95. but you had to throw your personal attacks in, dintcha. lmFao. nt

[xulamaude]

91. "I have a bachelor's degree in history and government"

Congratulations.

But so what?

[NaturalHigh]

93. It was in response to another post...

but then you already knew that. No surprise that you're coming to your buddy's aid. Now goodbye.

[xulamaude]

96. Is there something wrong with standing with a woman

with whom you share much in common?

Or should I just stfu now? Your call.

[polly7]

104. Women in the 40's weren't smart enough to know when they were

sexually assaulted? What a dip-shit she is, eh, thinking that was a happy time for her? She needed you there to point out: Duh!, Woman! .... you've just been demeaned, assaulted, and are, actually, feeling not happiness .... but terror, trauma and rage!!!! Gosh .... if only you'd been there for her.

[Scootaloo]

87. Well, there's two things, really...

First off, yes, it was a jackass thing for him to do, even considering the times, and the spirit of the moment... More of a jackass thing, as he was on a date... with his future wife... who's in the picture (you can see the top of her head over his right shoulder.) Running out to plant a kiss on a total stranger is a definite "thing you should not do."

On the other hand, mrs. Friedman seems okay with it, and I'm willing to take her opinion of it as such. That she does not regard it as an assault upon herself tells me that, well, it wasn't an assault upon her. She doesn't seem to cast it as romantic - it's something that happened, that she understands as an instance of the moment, and apparently has some sort of fond memory for

This doesn't invalidate that the same act on another woman would be assault, if she were to consider it so. Nor does it mean people should condone some other jackass who wished to emulate Mendonsa.

[redqueen]

107. She seems okay witth it? Selective blindness.

The articles even give us Greta’s own words:

“It wasn’t my choice to be kissed. The guy just came over and grabbed!”

“I did not see him approaching, and before I knew it, I was in this vice grip. [sic]“

“You don’t forget this guy grabbing you.”

“That man was very strong. I wasn’t kissing him. He was kissing me.”

It seems pretty clear, then, that what George had committed would be considered sexual assault by modern standards. Yet, in an amazing feat of willful blindness, none of the articles comment on this, even as they reproduce Greta’s words for us. Without a single acknowledgement of the problematic nature of the photo that her comments reveal, they continue to talk about the picture in a whimsical, reverent manner, “still mesmerized by his timeless kiss.” George’s actions are romanticized and glorified; it is almost as if Greta had never spoken.

http://cratesandribbons.com/2012/09/30/the-kissing-sailor-or-the-selective-blindness-of-rape-culture-vj-day-times-square/

Of course those who are so eager to minimize rape culture pick other quotes to focus on.

The facts regarding sexual assault are still the facts, no matter this individual woman's personal opinion, unclear as it may be.

What's really disgusting is seeing people spinning any critical analysis of the fact that this woman grew up during an era when male entitlement and sexism were even more socially acceptable than they are today, as implying that she was 'not smart enough to know she was sexually assaulted'.

That is some fox-news quality malicious spin right there.

[NaturalHigh]

115. If only you could talk to her...

and let her know what she should think. The world would be a better place.

[Exultant Democracy]

97. So you agree the woman in the OP assaulted the officer, she is obviously gabbing his helmet

on both sides, and the crowd is tight enough that he had no means of getting away from her. He would have had to use physical force to prevent that kiss.

[seabeyond]

98. she touched the man... right there the police can do something. nt

[Exultant Democracy]

99. Yeah they did do something, they arrested her for sexual violence.

And according to the stander you have set with the WW2 pic they did the right thing.

[seabeyond]

100. next time a police pulls you over to give you a ticket, reach out to him. see how that works for you

[Exultant Democracy]

102. The last time I was pulled over the lady said I looked cute and let me off with a warning.

The time before that I was dragged out of my car tacked to the ground and handcuffed because they assumed my car was stolen since I was a young brown man.

The first most recent cop probably would have loved it she spent a while hitting on me, the one before might have executed me. Brown in America I don't play games with cops it Russian roulette.

[seabeyond]

103. white woman in american, i do not either. that being said, a zillion times more,

brown in america.

[Harmony Blue]

10. Yeah this picture capture a moment unique in American

history and still controversial.

[NaturalHigh]

46. Ah yes...the perpetual outrage crowd.

I suppose it makes some feel good to look at one of the most iconic photographs of the 20th century and trash it as a sexual assault.

I remember seeing that picture in a grade-school textbook. Up until recently (and only on this board), I have never heard or read of anyone seeing something sinister in it.

[seabeyond]

53. can any of you men ever disagree without insulting or personally attacking a woman, ever....

in any of your posts?

[NaturalHigh]

55. Sorry if you find facts insulting.

I remember seeing that picture in a grade-school textbook. Up until recently (and only on this board), I have never heard or read of anyone seeing something sinister in it.

That's just a fact. If it offends you, well...

[xulamaude]

88. I've been hearing about the

cultural (sexual entitlement) impact of that photo since I was about 9 years old.

I grew up around "regular old' feminists in the 70s.

[NaturalHigh]

111. Cool story!

[Comrade Grumpy]

62. "You men"? Why not just go with "you people"?

Perhaps if you weren't so antagonistic toward an entire gender, you might not elicit the responses you complain about.

[seabeyond]

63. you men as the men in this thread, firstly. second. i MADE the men insult and personally attack me?

[NaturalHigh]

71. Please feel free to point out...

where I personally attacked you or insulted you, since I was one of the "you men" to whom you referred.

[Vashta Nerada]

65. Six hidden posts since October.

Will you be allowed to post in January?

[seabeyond]

66. oh. you got me.... grabbing heart and falling back. really?

[Vashta Nerada]

67. Seven people have more than five hidden posts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12594393#post1

Guess we know one of them now.

[seabeyond]

69. i guess you have missed the Op i made about it and other threads i have discussed it,

so i am guessin it was never really.... hush hush, a fuckin secret.

[Upton]

56. Thankfully they're a distinct minority..

My experience is similar to yours, the first time I ever read anything negative about that photo was here at DU.

[NaturalHigh]

58. Yes, but a loud minority.

[polly7]

64. Considering the horrendous toll the war had taken on people all around the world

and the unimaginable relief that must have been felt when it finally ended, I find it very difficult to see that kiss as anything but a spontaneous, joyous act that harmed no one.

It's always made me happy to see it, anyway.

[NaturalHigh]

68. "It's always made me happy to see it, anyway."

Me too.

My grandmother told me about hearing that the war had ended on the radio. I still can't imagine how surreal it must have been.

I'll make everyone a deal - If the U.S. ever ends all of its wars, feel free to grab me and give me a big smooch.

[polly7]

73. I hope you get a lot of smooches then, soon! nt

[PowerToThePeople]

60. It was sexual assault.

(snip)
The kiss did kind of bother someone else, though: the woman in the nurse’s uniform, Greta Zimmer, who wasn’t even a nurse. She was a 21-year-old dental assistant from Queens, who, having heard rumors about the end of the war, walked over to Times Square from her office on Lexington Avenue. George says he was so drunk, he doesn’t even remember the kiss. Greta says she’ll never forget it.
(snip)
She isn’t sure how long she was standing there; maybe minutes. “And then I was grabbed,” she says. “That man was very strong. I wasn’t kissing him. He was kissing me.”

Just as suddenly, he let her go. George stumbled off towards the subway, Rita trailing behind, and Greta walked back to her office. George and Rita never discussed the kiss, nor did Greta tell anyone what had happened to her.

Back then, it was just one of those things: “Obviously, to do that today — it’s not such a good idea,” says Lawrence Verria, co-author of “The Kissing Sailor.” “But in Times Square, 1945, they hear the war’s over — it’s not such a bad idea.”
(snip)

http://nypost.com/2012/06/17/the-true-story-behind-the-iconic-v-j-day-sailor-and-nurse-smooch/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/97187031/The-Kissing-Sailor-The-Mystery-Behind-the-Photo-that-Ended-World-War-II

[joshcryer]

75. That woman is in a head lock.

Look closely.

Our minds are manipulated by the renditions of that photograph in media, where the arm is much more relaxed and just allowing her head to rest. In that photo it's obvious he's got her in a head lock and her chin appears to indicate she's pulling away and her clinched fist appears to indicate stress.

In reality the woman in white to the left was his actual girlfriend and he drunkenly mistook this woman for his girlfriend.

[yuiyoshida]

110. I don't think he would have kissed me...

I am Japanese... MY ASS would have been in an interment camp with George Takei... OOHHH myyyyyyy!

[NaturalHigh]

113. Well Upton...

that one simple photo managed to turn this thread into a train wreck. I figured it would stir up a few people (not naming names, now), but I didn't expect the riot mode.

Yeah, I don't understand it either.

[rug]

15. The visor has a claim; he doesn't.

[Harmony Blue]

19. Interesting picture

and yes the visor has been traumatized.

[Orrex]

101. So it's not sexual assault if you don't touch skin?

Interesting.

[Recursion]

108. Hey, you've just legalized frottage

I know a lot of guys on the subway who will appreciate that...

[NaturalHigh]

112. Okay, I'll admit it...

I had to look that one up.

[Recursion]

114. I only know it from watching SVU (nt)

[quinnox]

92. Patsy, What's wrong?

[boston bean]

116. keep your hands off of people unless you have their consent. PERIOD.

what is so freaking hard to understand about this. Jebus, my son knew this at age two.

[Demo_Chris]

118. Would she have a valid complaint if HE kissed her back...

Or would that be sexual assault on his part?

[Squinch]

134. Trashing obvious flamebait

[lumberjack_jeff]

135. Three possible answers.

a) "No, this isn't sexual assault because kissing strangers on the street isn't a manifestation of violence, and we can assume that 'the victim' enjoys it."

b) "Yes any unwanted physical contact with sexual implications is sexual assault and should be punished with full measure of law to prevent the assailant from similarly victimizing additional victims.

c) "It depends entirely on the genders. It's impossible for women to sexually assault men, so if it's a woman kissing a man, then the answer is "A". If it's a man kissing a woman, then the answer is "B"."

All are legitimate answers, but in no event should anyone who would choose "C" be believed when they say they support equality - except in a sloganeering sense. They in fact forfeit the right to use the word equality in a way that suggests they see it as a desirable outcome.

[99Forever]

136. "Sexual violence" can only be commited...

.. by those with penises.

I learned that right here on DU.

[seabeyond]

137. ya. from men like you, right now, repeatedly saying it. lol. yes you have. nt

[99Forever]

138. Nope. I learned it from militant, bitter, man-haters...

... displaying their agenda here on an almost daily basis.

[seabeyond]

139. link. and i will be sure to attach the added insults and personal attacks. just cant help

yourself, can you. what a fuckin hoot.

[99Forever]

140. I'd suggest you start with your own "My Posts" link.

A "fucking hoot" indeed.

[seabeyond]

141. so, you have no link to prove what you say. i suggest it is hands down feminists that calls out

sexual assault regardless of sex and the men giggle about it when it happens to a man. unless of course, it is meeting a defined agenda of theirs.

you could not be more wrong. the only ones making your initial claim is yourself and other men trying to create what is nto there.

it was women, and it was feminist that consistently called out the prison rape jokes. and just as consistently it was the men that were making it. and the men that attacked us women as perpetual outrage group. until you men learned that ya... it did work for your benefit to not allow the prison rape jokes.

and

you are welcome.

[99Forever]

142. Blah, blah, blah.

SSDD.

[seabeyond]

143. lol. happy holidays dude...

[hrmjustin]

144. Don't touch anyone without permission. that is the moral of the story.