The U.S. needs to leave not just Afghanistan, not just the Middle-East, but everywhere.

[white_wolf]

The U.S. needs to get out of the Middle-East, South America, Africa, and wherever else we have bases and troops stationed. If history has taught us anything its that imperialism only makes things worse, not only for the people whose country is invader, but for the invaders as well. Had the U.S. not been decided to meddle in the affairs of the Middle-East, 911 would not have happened, the Islamic Revolution would not have happened, had the U.S. stayed out of South America 3,000 people would not have died under the reign of Augusto Pinochet, and I'm certain there are plenty of other examples of the problems caused by U.S. imperialism. Let me make this clear, the U.S. needs to give up its empire, because it is not only immoral, it unsustainable for the people of the U.S. To be completely fair, this isn't simply a U.S. problem, but this is a U.S. based board so I am focusing on them.

[arcane1]

1. Indeed, it takes a lot of money and resources to keep those markets "free"

It's staggering to think of how much of the military budget is nothing more than corporate subsidies, whether directly enriching contractors to defending corporate-friendly environments in other countries.

So much good could have come from that money

[sabrina 1]

2. Empires never last. The cost is huge, and the stolen resources can't pay the huge cost

of interfering in the business of every country on earth. And the real cost, the cost in lives cannot be calculated.

Millions of people's lives have been destroyed over the past decade. And they want another war??

I have an idea. If you support going to war with Iran, Cheney and the gang, YOU all have to go and lead the charge, and/or your kids.

All those who do not support it, should get a tax deduction and the bill goes to the Warmongers.

[white_wolf]

4. I,personally, think any war should requrie a national referendum.

If it passes then whoever votes for it is drafted, those who voted against are exempt. Let's see the warmongers put their own lives on the line.

[Zanzoobar]

5. I love rugged individualism

May we do the same with taxation?

[white_wolf]

6. Completely different cases.

Taxes are the price we pay for society and everyone clearly benefits from society, however only the elite benefit from these wars.

The fact is that the people who make these decisions to go to war will never step foot on the battlefield and neither will their children. They have no business deciding to send other people's children into war.

As an aside if you knew anything about my political views, which I've posted here countless times, I am the farthest thing from a "rugged individualist." I am an anti-capitalist and thus am opposed to the capitalists wars for profit and resources, however if some capitalists want to go get themselves killed in some war, good riddance, just as long as they don't force others to fight for their profits.

[Zanzoobar]

17. Your request is simply arbitrary

"If it passes then whoever votes for it is drafted, those who voted against are exempt. Let's see the warmongers put their own lives on the line."

This can easily transposed into a valuation on roads and such.

"If it passes then whoever votes for it is taxed, those who voted against are exempt. Let's see the taxers put their own need on the line."

The people who want roads should pay for them. It is as simple as war.

[white_wolf]

18. Taxes have an obvious benefit to society and everyone benefits from them.

Everyone does not benefit from these wars, its as simple as that. No one should be forced to fight wars of profit, whereas everyone benefits from roads.

[Zanzoobar]

20. Like I said, Arbitrary.

Your rules of inclusion are applied when they make you happy.

[Junkdrawer]

3. The exploitation of cheap foreign labor has gutted our manufacturing base....

That power is gone and now our foreign trade deficits are so staggering that our creditors no longer want our IOUs, they want and are getting our infrastructure.

Google "China US Infrastructure" and read all about it.

We have, very literally, sold out.

[Junkdrawer]

9. I think everyone should get at least a 50" LCD TV for Glacier National Park....

But we could settle for IPad 3s for the Everglades....

[KG]

7. rec.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. The empire needs to retrench

But has nothing to do with carefully massaged push polls.

And like all empires it will do well after prudent.

[Agony]

10. You are in good company... "The Sorrows of Empire" Militarism, Secrecy, and the End of the Republic

Chalmers Johnson

the very last paragraph in his book--->
"There is one development that could conceivably stop this process of overreaching: the people could retake control of Congress, reform it along with the corrupted election laws that have made it into a forum for special interests, turn it into a genuine assembly of democratic representatives, and cut off the supply of money to the Pentagon and secret inteligence agencies. We have a strong civil society that could, in theory, overcome the entrenched interests of the armed forces and the military industrial complex. At this late date, however, it is difficult to imagine how Congress, much like the Roman Senate in the last days of the republic, could be brought back to life and cleansed of its endemic corruption. Faililng such a reform. Nemesis, the goddess of retribution and vengeance, the punisher of pride and hubris, waits impatiently for her meeting with us."

Cheers! anyway...

thanks for the OP
Agony

[indepat]

11. A quick persual of the litany of countries in which the US military and/or the CIA have/has

conducted operations since WWII, as listed on WIKIPEDIA, should be sufficient to shatter realistic hopes for a significant number of troops ever being withdrawn. Great powers will do whatever is necessary to protect their vital interests and the vital interests of the US (trust me on this one) stretch to virtually every nook and cranny on planet Earth.

[MisterP]

12. they also have trading cards!

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html

[jwirr]

13. Correct until of course they collapse. That is what Chalmers Johnson was saying. When we can no

longer afford them it will be too late because we will have also destroyed our own country. Paul Kennedy describes this process in "The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers". He shows how this played into the fall of most of the great empires we know about.

[indepat]

14. If only the Congress, in its entirety, grasped even a thimble-full of Chalmers' wisdom

and heeded his admonitions, maybe our nation could get off its self-destructive path: are we really a strong nation when most quality-of-life indicators for the masses are being sacrificed for the sake of the 1% in fulfillment of a RW PNAC wet dream?

[jwirr]

19. That is what really frustrates me. I wonder if these congress person - even our progressive ones

ever bother to pick up a book and read it? There are so many really good ones to teach anyone about what is going on but you never even hear them mention what they are reading. Do they even know about Johnson and Kennedy's books?

[woo me with science]

15. +1000000

[woo me with science]

16. K&R