For Megyn Kelly

[kpete]

[liberalla]

1. LOVE IT!!!

[liberal N proud]

2. Did you send her one?

[kpete]

3. No, but I sent her this instead:

Photo of the Day: Was St. Nicholas "White"?
(Informed Comment) - Russian icon of St. Nicholas of Myra on whom the figure of Santa Claus is based.



Santa Claus is a Dutch corruption of Saint Nikolaos, a fourth-century saint from the Mediterranean coast of Anatolia in what is now Turkey. He was also known as Nikolaos Thaumaturge, the master magician.

Eastern Orthodox icons of St. Nicholas (the Latin form of the name) often depict him as dark-skinned, to show his Mediterranean origins.

As David Roediger argued, the American term "white" was deployed by middle and upper class Protestants of northern European origin to demarcate themselves not only from African-Americans but from working class Catholics such as the Irish and from the wave of immigrants 1880-1924 from southern and eastern Europe, including Lebanese, Italians, Greeks, Poles and Jews.

http://www.juancole.com/2013/12/photo-nicholas-white.html

[JDPriestly]

5. The Dutch Saint Nicholas was definitely North European or "white." So take your pick.

But the Saint Nicholas associated with Christmas was North European White.

Jesus was from the Mediterranean area if not of African descent.

[Voice for Peace]

12. have you seen this?

http://www.atlanticproductions.tv/productions/specials/the-real-face-of-santa/

[JDPriestly]

31. The original Saint Nicholas did not give gifts to children at Christmas.

Saint Nikolaus giving gifts at Christmas is a Dutch tradition. As I pointed out, other European countries adopted the custom. Actually, the gifts are given on December 6 probably to commemorate the original Saint Nicholas. But the tradition is Dutch.

I also posted this information about the custom in Austria which was borrowed from the Dutch and elaborated.

https://www.google.com/search?q=austria+krampus&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=iyKrUoJ9kuugBP2OgdgD&sqi=2&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=504

Krampus is a beast-like creature from the folklore of Alpine countries thought to punish children during the Yule season who had misbehaved, in contrast with Saint Nicholas, who rewards well-behaved ones with gifts. Krampus is said to capture particularly naughty children in his sack and carry them away to his lair.

Krampus is represented as a beast-like creature, generally demonic in appearance. The creature has roots in Germanic folklore; however, its influence has spread far beyond German borders. Traditionally young men dress up as the Krampus in Austria, southern Bavaria, South Tyrol, northern Friuli, Hungary, Slovenia, the Czech Republic, the Slovak Republic, the Netherlands and Croatia during the first week of December, particularly on the evening of 5 December (the eve of Saint Nicholas day on many church calendars), and roam the streets frightening children with rusty chains and bells. Krampus is featured on holiday greeting cards called Krampuskarten. There are many names for Krampus, as well as many regional variations in portrayal and celebration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus

Nikolaus and Krampus come on the same day. They are yet another way that Southern Germans scare their children into good behavior. If you are bad, Krampus comes. If you are good, Nikolaus comes and gives you gifts.

The Germans have a tradition of scaring children into good behavior. Check out the Struwelpeter series. Read the ORIGINAL Grimm's Fairy Tales (they are truly grim) not the kindly, happy-ending Disney verison.

For your reading pleasure (more suitable for our Halloween than our Christmas), portions of the Struwelpeter book:

http://io9.com/5913747/the-best-scenes-from-the-most-demented-german-childrens-book-ever-published

That is why I view this tradition as assuredly European. Really, really, there is more to it than our kindly Santa Claus with his lovely white beard and jolly laugh.

I suspect that the link to the Turkish saint was simply a way to link some ancient "pagan" celebration to the Christian religion in order to excuse its continued popularity. I don't think the Krampus part of the Austrian and South German celebration started in Holland but I could be wrong.

[CJCRANE]

35. But the chimney thing and presents in stockings seems to come from St Nick originally...

"In his most famous exploit, a poor man had three daughters but could not afford a proper dowry for them. This meant that they would remain unmarried and probably, in absence of any other possible employment, would have to become prostitutes. Hearing of the girls' plight, Nicholas decided to help them, but being too modest to help the family in public (or to save them the humiliation of accepting charity), he went to the house under the cover of night and threw three purses (one for each daughter) filled with gold coins through the window opening into the house.

One version has him throwing one purse for three consecutive nights. Another has him throwing the purses over a period of three years, each time the night before one of the daughters comes of age. Invariably, the third time the father lies in wait, trying to discover the identity of their benefactor. In one version the father confronts the saint, only to have Saint Nicholas say it is not him he should thank, but God alone. In another version, Nicholas learns of the poor man's plan and drops the third bag down the chimney instead; a variant holds that the daughter had washed her stockings that evening and hung them over the embers to dry, and that the bag of gold fell into the stocking".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Nicholas#Legends_and_folklore

[SummerSnow]

7. damn....its Grady from Sanford and Son!!!!

[Voice for Peace]

19. It's the big one!

?372x279

[klook]

37. Nikolaos Thaumaturge brought me a magic set one year

How cool is that? Thanks to him I was a young master of the "dark" arts.

I will now turn Megyn Kelly into a hideous toad.

Oh, wait -- she already is one.

[Botany]

4. Good old Santa Paws

***********
BTW Megyn's Jesus and Santa are white guys comment is really racist.

[JDPriestly]

6. Many Americans have very diverse racial or ethnic backgrounds.

Is it racist to speak of race, period? Should we just ignore race or is it OK to talk about it?

I'm not being sarcastic. Are we bound to step on toes when we talk about race? Is it a taboo subject?

The Christmas tree is a German tradition. The Saint Nikolaus who brings gifts at Christmas as opposed to the original Saint Nikolaus you point out was a magician was a Dutch tradition.

The Yule Log was old Celtic/pagan, something like that.

Jesus was from the Middle East, maybe somehow from a people of African origin (not sure about this but I have heard it).

Is mentioning a person's race or the race of people who started a tradition inherently racist?

What does racist mean?

Why do we think Megyn was being racist?

No one thinks it is racist to mention that Martin Luther King was an African-American. At least I hope not. How do we decide when it is OK to talk about the race of a tradition or person and when not?

I think our society is very confused about talking about race. Some are overly sensitive about any mention of race while others take pride in their race. I'm lost here. Please help.

[Botany]

8. Why do we think Megyn was being racist?

She was being a racist by saying that both Jesus and Santa were white.

[JDPriestly]

9. She was wrong, but is that racist? How do you define racist?

[Botany]

13. It is racist because she made it about race.

Last edited Fri Dec 13, 2013, 07:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Santa = Good guy
Jesus = Good guy

And because they are good guys that have to be white because
in a racist's mind that is how their world should work.

[Coyotl]

17. "...being a racist is the worst thing you can say about somebody." Megyn Kelly

Oh the irony!! This is so Faux!

"I - listen, racism - being a racist is the worst thing you can say about somebody. I mean, it is such a charged accusation. And I really think people should be very careful before they level that."
Megyn Kelly

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/megyn_kelly_2.html#JKI8VyZjEE6exD1F.99

[Wounded Bear]

30. I thought being called a liberal was the worst thing...

I'm so confused.

Probably from trying to apply common sense to the ramblings of idiots.

[JDPriestly]

27. Good point. I never thought about Jesus' race until a friend who was African-American told

me he was probably African. It took me a while to figure that out. I had never considered Jesus in terms of race. I never thought Jesus' race was relevant.

[Botany]

33. I haven't thought of Jesus being anything but African for years

He had hair as if of a lamb and his feet were the color of bronze. (really rough bible quote)
That does not sound like the blue eyed blond haired northern european image we have been
sold for year. Good chance Jesus looked like some of the current day Jewish people living
in Somalia.

[Voice for Peace]

15. it's not overtly racist.

More like ignorant and sheltered, to believe in these
white skinned myths, and be clueless about why.

My bigger problem with her is that she lies outright to
kids on television. She may have lost her ability to
discriminate between facts and imagination. This
probably happens to everybody at Fox. I don't think
Mister Rogers would approve. She left out the magic
words "make believe."

[Paladin]

10. You've got 10 years and over 41,000 posts at DU.

With that background, I find your naïve musings about race a little puzzling.....

[JDPriestly]

32. Saint Nikolaus is a North European tradition that spread as far South as Northern Italy --

Sud Tirol.

It is distinctly European, probably pagan in origin. It really has nothing to do with religion.

Saint Nikolaus was a means of making children behave. I don't think African-Americans would want to claim the tradition if they knew more about it.

Here is the guy who accompanies Saint Nikolaus on his visit to the children of Austria and other countries that celebrate him.

https://www.google.com/search?q=austria+krampus&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=iyKrUoJ9kuugBP2OgdgD&sqi=2&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=504

The celebration scares and delights children in certain European countries. While it occurs on the day that celebrates the religious Saint Nikolaus and there are all sorts of excuses for tying that celebration to religion, I really doubt that the Christian religion was the origin of St. Nikolaus and Krampus. The two go together.

[CJCRANE]

38. But where did the original legends come from? You'd need to consult the Orthodox Church

but I assume the legends about gift-giving originated in Greece/Turkey.

"Saint Nicholas (Greek: Ἅ???? ???ό????, Hagios Nikólaos, Latin: Sanctus Nicolaus); (15 March 270 – 6 December 343),[3][4] also called Nikolaos of Myra, was a historic 4th-century Christian saint and Greek[5] Bishop of Myra (Demre, part of modern-day Turkey) in Lycia. Because of the many miracles attributed to his intercession, he is also known as Nikolaos the Wonderworker (???ό???? ὁ ??????????ό?, Nikolaos ho Thaumaturgos). He had a reputation for secret gift-giving, such as putting coins in the shoes of those who left them out for him".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Nicholas

[heaven05]

28. Since Reagan's visit to Philadelphia, Mississippi

Last edited Sat Dec 14, 2013, 09:38 AM - Edit history (1)

to announce his run for the presidency, Nixon's southern strategy, civil rights movement, institutionalized racial segregation(apartheid) and finally slavery, amerika has had vicious and institutionalized RACISM!!!!! Look at the extra ordinary problems a black POTUS has brought about in the racial relations of the amerikan citizenry. Most based on pure racism. LimPIG, zimPIG, beckerhead and a whole host of RW clowns have gotten rich and famous pushing their ignorant, racist and murderous agendas. Nothing to be confused or lost about. Ms.kelly is a reflection of a large portion of american citizenry. White is always right and good and since Santa is good he is white. Her ignorance about Jesus is appalling. Santa needs to be what one on here said, a reflection of the hearts of all children. Ms. kelly brought her two cents and that's all her opinion is worth. Even Santa better be careful. He may be banned if he is found to be other than white. I am really sick of amerika's sickness because of racial disharmony. This is just disgusting.

[Sheepshank]

11. I assume Megyn Kelly was referring to the modern Santa Clause persona.

If so, then this is made up shit. She telling us that her made up shit is correct and everyone elses idea of made up shit is wrong? Really is that how the newsroom works now? Some made up shit is more right than others?...Others' made up shit can be so wrong it's beyond made up shit?

[lapislzi]

16. Isn't that how religion works?

My made up shit is the real deal; your made up shit ain't diddly.

[Coyotl]

18. The difference between religion and New Age wooo.

With religion, you believe someone else's made up shit.
With New Age wooo, everyone can have their own reality view.

[tavalon]

29. The Coca Cola created Santa is indeed white

[napkinz]

14. the word of the day is "essentially" ...

[rafeh1]

20. Megyn

Megyn is just playing into fake controversy in order to get publicity. I wonder if Megyn is a real name or a stage name.

[underpants]

21. Tell her it melts in her mouth not her hand

Unless it's done correctly

[glowing]

22. I saw this silly Christmas movie about a Santa having to save Xmas.

The kid asked the Santa why does the Santa always have to be white? How does that effect other children of other color? And the Danta said perhaps, Santa appears to be what color or look the child sees in their heart. Later on Santa is sitting in as a mall Santa, and every child that sat in his lap had a different looking Santa, color, look, etc. I thought it was one of the coolest ideas to address the Santa and color issues done in any Xmas movie.

I would love for everyone to adopt this idea of Santa; that he looks as the child wishes to see in their heart. That would be the magic of Xmas and the magic of Santa to be able to do this for all children everywhere.

[Sheepshank]

23. I remember taking my little sister to see Santa

she was 15 years younger than I and this was in Australia. Poor dude was swelting in the traditional Santa costume in the middle of an Australian Summer.

My little sis came away from the meeting very somber. I asked her what the matter was and she said Santa sounded Italian (there are a lot of Italians in Perth), and he was sweating.

So I did go into a long diatribe of a personalized Santa for everyone, and someone forgot to pack his summer suit for Australia, being careful to explain that it was Winter in the Northern Hemispheres. She said it all made sense

[Cleita]

24. Vatican does forensic reconstruction on St. Nicholas's skull and

this is what they came up with:

http://www.stnicholascenter.org/pages/real-face/

He doesn't look all that white to me.

[alp227]

25. Megyn KKKelly n/t

[Eleanors38]

26. Everyone Google "Megyn Kelly farts." Should settle the racism question.

[Gothmog]

34. Juanita Jean had some fun with this story

http://www.juanitajean.com/2013/12/12/and-i-want-all-you-black-and-brown-kids-to-feel-really-bad-about-it-too-because-its-jesus-birthday-dammit-and-barbie-is-white-too-so-get-over-it/

[siligut]

36. Or the great mother

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

Shrine of the Black Madonna or Our Lady of Jasna Gora in Czestochowa is the most important Marian shrine in Poland. According to legend, the Black Madonna with Jesus painted by St. Luke on wood table that is made ​​by Jesus himself. In 4th century, this file is saved Saint Helena and brought to Constantinople. Here occured many conversions and miraculous healings. The legend says that picture, was hidden in the forests of Polish and later adopted in Czestochowa. After all the events, in 1430 for that picture has build a great Gothic cathedral. Later, with this shrine several times been linked to the fate of the Polish. Even during the second World war, people went there on pilgrimage to the secret of spiritual strength against the Nazis, and it happened a lot more when Poland fell under Soviet influence. Arrival at the Shrine of the Polish Pope, John Paul II. undoubtedly played a major role in the overthrow of communism in Poland, ten years later and the subsequent defeat of communism in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union

Shrine Jasna Gora is the most famous Polish Marian shrine and one of the most important in the world (2004. Recorded 3.5 million pilgrims from 66 different countries). It is situated on a hill within the city. The subject of worship is a black image of Mary which is located in the Church of the Nativity of Mary in the Pauline monastery, which in 1906. declared a basilica. The church was built in the 15th century and the 17th and 18 century is decorated in baroque style. There are frescoes Karla Dankwarta. The main altar of the Assumption is the 1728th Jakob Anton Buzzin made​​.

http://www.kraljica-mira.com.hr/chestochowa.html

A visit to the shrine of the Black Madonna in Czestochowa is a must for tourists when visiting Poland and as stated, is the site of Catholic pilgrimages from around the world. An interesting aspect, aside from the religious significance, though it may have some which I am not aware of, is that the Madonna and Son have a variety of 'outfits' that the church applies to the painting depending upon the occasion.

[pa28]

39. And here's something else for Megyn to consider.

[Mosaic]

40. Indeed

White Jews came about after mixing with Germans, Anglos, and others in a deliberate attempt to hide their religion. It was a survival strategy that has worked out quite well for them.