General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBlack Teen Killed for Carrying Skittles
Black Teen Killed for Carrying Skittles
by Steven D
Mon Mar 12th, 2012 at 11:58:09 AM EST
If you are a young black male, such as Trayvon Martin and you make the mistake of walking home in a gated community in Orlando, FL, with bags of skittles concealed in your pockets, you will be shot and killed. Not by the police, mind you, but by the Captain of a Neighborhood Watch program, who made a 911 call regarding a "suspicious person" back on the evening of February 26th.
Before the police arrived on the scene, 17 year old Trayvon, who was visiting his father's fiancee and his step-brother, was already dead from a single shot to his chest, delivered from a gun carried by by George Zimmerman, a 28 year old white man, and the same individual who made the 911 call. Trayvon had nothing on his person except for 2 bags of skittles and a can of ice tea, which he had purchased at the local 7-11.
Oddly enough, the police investigation of this incident is still ongoing, Mr. Zimmerman (who received a bloody nose from an alleged scuffle with the deceased) isn't talking, and the family of this child (yes 17 is still a child) is questioning the authorities as to why no progress has been made in this case:
Im a normal mother. I just want justice for my son, Fulton said, speaking at the same Miami Gardens church where the teen was previously laid to rest. My heart is broken. I keep thinking he is going to walk in through the door and the nightmare is going to end.
The police have refused to release the tape of the 911 call Zimmerman made that night, as well as the tapes from other 911 calls made by residents regarding the alleged fight between Zimmerman and Trayvon. The family, frustrated after weeks have passed and nothing has been done, have filed a lawsuit to force the police to turn over the 911 tapes as well as all the other investigative documents. They believe they have been lied to by the police and are being given the run around by the local authorities so that Trayvon's killer can go free.
more...
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2012/3/12/11589/4959
Robeysays
(673 posts)for protection of course. some one with a FB or something must let his family know he's dangerous.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Give that asshole a chance to behave like a victim?
That's the worst idea I have ever heard.
frylock
(34,825 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)If we are reading about it, how could his family NOT know?
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Is he OK?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Response to Hoyt (Reply #6)
Post removed
Rex
(65,616 posts)that is unless they want somebody to get away with murder. Sounds a little fishy that Zimmerman had charges dropped from assaulting a cop...why is that? Who ever gets away with assaulting a cop? Something doesn't pass the smell test.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The police told the teen's family that the reason they didn't arrest Zimmerman was because he had a squeaky clean record (which he didn't). The police even admitted that they told Zimmerman not to confront the teen prior to the shooting.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I've never heard of cops being that way with anybody. That just makes it smell more fishy imo. You would think that taking a persons life would be the most important choice a person will make in their lifetime. From the article, it reads like Zimmerman could not wait to kill that kid with his gun!
I feel so sorry for the parents, their world must be turned upside down right now.
Where is justice for the child?
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)In this county, there is a preferred class of people who get a free pass. Even with murder.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)could answer a LOT of questions...
MADem
(135,425 posts)Even if the intent was to paper over the investigation with bullshit, there needs to be charges, at least. Anything else just stinks on ice.
If the local police and/or the state AG don't do anything, I think this is a federal violation of that child's civil rights. This cannot be allowed to stand.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)However, it certainly gives the appearance that race is a significant factor. Perhaps the police know more about the story, but that doesn't explain why they are being so secretive about it.
From what I've read on the case, I would agree that it appears as if Zimmerman was at best trigger happy and at worst engaged in a racially motivated killing. This is exactly why I'm vehemently against concealed and carry. I sincerely hope the police are doing a complete and thorough investigation of Zimmerman, but I'm not very optimistic of that so far.
Mopar151
(9,999 posts)Justice is hard to come by, when Kowboy Kops and wanna-be vigilantes mix.......
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Sounds to me that if the kid had not been Black, the "neighborhood watch captain" would not have stopped him. The whole thing is a damn shame, and I hope the police and DA investigate this objectively and fairly.
This is what you get when one gives a bigot a little "authority" and a gun.
LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Likely Republican voter.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)angstlessk
(11,862 posts)sorry...if the deceased does not have bruised knuckles...I WOULD QUESTION EVERYTHING THAT ASSHOLE SAYS!
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Another young African American man was gunned down by federal agents in NYC, because he had "a shiny object" that looked to their trigger-happy eyes like a gun.
So they blew him to kingdom come.
The "shiny object" turned out to be a 3 Musketeers bar.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Ends up dead at hands of self-appointed vigilante. Yeah, this is a tough one. Maybe we should form a commission that will report back in a couple of years.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Yep...really hard to understand by some, guess they didn't read the article.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Just like a whole bunch of the posts in this thread...
Yes, Zimmerman may well have been motivated by racism. He may very well have had no business confronting Martin (that is, Martin may well have been doing nothing to warrant suspicion). Martin may well not have posed an imminent threat to Zimmerman. But we don't know any of these things...the investigation is still incomplete.
I don't blame Ms. Martin for not trusting the authorities, though...too much history of whitewashing (see what I did there?) violence against black people not to be suspicious. I'd like to see more openness in this investigation: make all the associated 911 calls public, etc.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)You are so obvious it is sad to watch.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Such sad apologists in this thread. Sad and pathetic.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)I'll wager Martins crime was walking while Black where rich white folks live
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Who was armed with a deadly weapon, and used it?
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Just trying to establish the rules we are using.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)The poster said that we should make a judgment by which one was dead. Does this apply in all situations?
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)sudopod
(5,019 posts)You might slip a disk.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)What else you got there, Skippy?
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Would be useful to know.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)There was no alleged rape occuring, but you got that talking point out there, good for you.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)could not be trusted? I'll have to write these down.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Your silly little agenda will not last much longer here.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)clarify your statement. Something you seem unable to do. If one was dead, but ALSO had run-ins with the law, do they cancel each other out?
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Oh, I see you beat me to it.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)I'm sorry that you seem to be unable to explain yourself.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)and then shoot and kill an unarmed youth.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)That very well be what could have happened, but I'd prefer a thorougf investigation.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)I don't believe you. You come across more as a racist apologist than someone interested in facts.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)communities are treated the same as the rest. Thanks!
Rex
(65,616 posts)Fucking sick we have people like that on DU.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)All I'm asking for is that the rich white guy get the same treatment. And that the dead black boy gets the same pursuit of justice had the roles been reversed. If it was self-defense, charge him and make him prove it.
The apologist in this thread is going to great lengths to defend racism. The poster should be ashamed and is a poor representation of this site.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Response to Snake Alchemist (Reply #141)
Post removed
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)The victim was just walking through his folks neighborhood. The murderer called 911 and THEN got out of his car to confront the kid. Sorry, the white guy is a cold blooded killer.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)200 pound guy got out AFTER calling 911 to confront a 130 pound kid walking through his folk's neighborhood. Playing billy badass wannabe cop, got punched in the nose after picking a fight. Then he shot the kid dead.
Since it was in a gated community and it was white on black murder, the asshole is getting treated with kid gloves. I can see where you come down on it.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)The accounts are pretty clear. As are the lengths you are going to to cast doubts and defend the killer. Carry on...
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Although Steven D's work is well known on CNN-i, the NYT, and Nat Geo.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)It may very well have happened the way you believe, but we should wait for all the facts to come out before we form a posse.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Should be a lot more info pouring out today.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)While the article did not name the person complaining about the shooter's behavior, he certainly was not anonymous. Both the police and the community knew him and his problems with Zimmerman
At an emergency homeowners association meeting on March 1, one man was escorted out because he openly expressed his frustration because he had previously contacted the Sanford Police Department about Zimmerman approaching him and even coming to his home, the resident wrote in an email to HuffPost. It was also made known that there had been several complaints about George Zimmerman and his tactics" in his neighborhood watch captain role.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Could have happened word for word as stated, but just saying.
Number23
(24,544 posts)They have prepared a sworn and signed affidavit that they hope will convince you.
Your insistence of "data" EVEN WHEN PRESENTED WITH THEM is extraordinarily telling.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)as having complained several times about the overly aggressive nature of the shooter; when it is well documented that the 911 operator specifically told the shooter to stand down and someone still screams that they need more "data" in order to determine if this is a case of "walking while black," then it's obvious what's going on. Particularly when requests for data follow the tossing of little gems about "rapists" as if that has any bearing on the situation at hand.
Reminds me of a now tombstoned poster who absolutely REFUSED to accept that blacks are prosecuted more heavily and with greater prison sentences for crimes that white people are actually more likely to commit. When submitted with countless studies and even Congressional testimony that supported the statement, he kept asking for "more data." It was apparent to everyone reading that thread exactly what was going on, just as it is apparent to everyone reading this thread what is going on here.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)except walking through a neighborhood and possessing skin of a particular hue that AUTOMATICALLY makes him guilty/suspicious in the eyes of far too many?
So if someone killed an unarmed rapist then.
Wow. The facts are that this story has been ongoing for days and there has never even been a HINT that this boy did anything besides walk to his daddy's house. And yet here you are, tossing out scenarios involving rapists I guess in an idiotic attempt to say that this kid COULD have been up to something even though there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that. And I bet you are the first person here "reminding" everyone of how liberal you are and trumpeting those liberal creds, aren't you?
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)I wan't the one who through out a scenario. A previous poster said I would know who to hate based on who was unarmed and who was dead. I was just asking to elaborate on this new rule.
Boojatta
(12,231 posts)Link:
http://www.richardandkarencarpenter.com/biography-2.htm
However, there's a lot that we still don't know. Did Zimmerman ever listen to the music of the Carpenters? Would Karen Carpenter have enjoyed skittles? Did Zimmerman ever eat twinkies?
http://www.snopes.com/legal/twinkie.asp
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)and why the cops haven't released the statement/911 call he gave
and why they lied to the victim's family about him having a clean record
and why he continued to tail the victim after being told by 911 dispatch to back off and let the real cops handle it...
The 911 recording is key...I want to know exactly how he described the situation for 911 to send the police over -- "suspicious behavior" usually doesn't cut it, and if he started some bullshit about witnessing a crime in progress or that the kid was an exact match of some wanted criminal, then god help him...
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Ask good questions. Can't wait until we get some answers.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Or shall we just wait for word from you that it's now OK to discuss this story or that?
I'm going to go ahead and side with the victim on this one, if it doesn't make you too angry.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Postpone the lynching.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,342 posts)excuse not to write
(147 posts)"Lynching" is a word that SHOULD NOT be used in a case like this.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)He is clearly a racist-sympathizer and apologist, if not more. Bringing the term lynching in further reveals his true beliefs.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)This post is over-the-top. No one is proposing that Mr. Zimmerman be lynched. This is a very rude characterization of his fellow DUers.
JURY RESULTS
A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Mar 12, 2012, 11:39 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I think the word 'lynching' is used more in a figurative sense.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: The word "Lynching" doesn't belon in a story about a white guy killing a black kid.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Alerting/hiding is not a valid substitute for rebutting an argument about potentially premature judgment calls. I see nothing over the top about this post. (and no, using the word "lynch"doesn't make it over the top)
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: in context of the discussion, this comment appears to be inappropriate.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: Using the term lynching in a post about an AfricanAmerican kid being killed is certainly insensitive and a little over the top.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I think the comment was sarcastic, and not intended to refer to a literal lynching. Please leave this comment.
Thank you.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I imagine many people believe we should forbid ourselves from discussing a thing until and unless absolute knowledge is achieved-- "but I doubt that will stop anybody" (how about that-- the petulant and passive aggressive digs *are* viscerally satisfying. Good to know).
Additionally, as the personal judgements and discourses have little legal standing, and do not change the case or its evidence, and as it seems that they do in fact, do any harm in and of themselves, an inconsequential conversation is , at its worst, merely an aggravation you.
However, I'm certain you believe that you yourself have brought a relevant and salient point to the table, and it will of course, be allowed all the consideration it is, in fact, warranted.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Doesn't sound like he followed the gunnerhood advice on how to stage a homicide, or this advice on how to confront "the enemy."
petronius
(26,603 posts)You really should delete this...
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)The threads linked are relevant to the topic of conversation and as you well know I'm no lover of gun violence. I think I'll let my post stand. If you want to see a call out thread - I'm controlling my dismay at this incident in the best way I know, pointing out the ridiculousness of the culture that puts a gun in that mans hand and tells him to confront a teenager over nothing. If you don't like it, I suggest you go down-thread and see that the local police department won't be charging this POS Zimmerman. I'm tired of being told that more guns is the answer - it's not as this thread illustrates quite well
petronius
(26,603 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Don't like it, sorry but that's not uncivil - if you believe it to be a violation of the DU Community Standards, by all means, alert on the post.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)First Posted: 03/ 9/2012 6:45 pm Updated: 03/12/2012 11:36 am
An attorney for the family of Trayvon Martin, the teenager shot to death last month by a neighborhood watch captain in an Orlando, Fla., suburb, said police withheld the shooter's violent past from the slain youth's family.
Police initially told Martins family that George Zimmerman, 28, admitted to shooting Martin, 17, on Feb. 26, after he called 911 and reported a suspicious person, said the attorney, Benjamin Crump. Zimmerman said the shooting was in self-defense, police said.
Zimmerman, who is white, has not been charged in the death of Martin, who was black. Police in Sanford, where the shooting occurred, told Martins family that Zimmerman had a squeaky-clean record and thats why they had not arrested him, according to Tracy Martin, the teens father.
Crump said public records show that Zimmerman was arrested in Orange County in 2005 on charges of resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer.
More: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1335984.html
babylonsister
(171,092 posts)and the additional info. As tragic as I first thought this was, seeing the young man makes it seem even more so.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...are people just like you and I. There's something about our culture that allows us to compartmentalize their deaths as meaningless or insignificant. That we've allowed the gun violence debate in this country to be politically marginalized and shunted by "libertarian" extremists is shameful.
JI7
(89,271 posts)really tough to watch.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...but it really doesn't seem like he was a 6'10 300 pound menace who could kill with his bare hands in an instant.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)You missed the sarcasm? Judging from the pictures in the news videos he couldn't have been more than 6 feet and 160 - he wasn't a big kid.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Sarcasm totally flew past me. Kids seem to grow big these days.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Bet he looked like a die hard thug waving that sack of skittles....
Do I need to put this up?
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Post removed
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)trying to tell you something is wrong with this county, but nobody seems to care.
Without knowing if it will lead to anything, I suggest someone look into finding out if Zimmerman is related to anyone with connections. That's how things usually work.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)It's actually more sophisticated than that. But GOB will do for now.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Martin feels afraid/offended/suspicious/nervous/angry and confronts Zimmerman wanting to know why he's being followed, because it's not like he's a real cop to begin with (and anyone can buy a uniform and call themselves anything)...Of course Zimmerman doesn't have a legit reason, only a flimsy bullshit excuse that only feeds the fire because Martin is old enough to know the indignity of doing "____ while black" or maybe he thinks Zimmerman is a fraud or a burglar trying to sniff out where he lives...Things escalate, a scuffle ensues and without cause or warning, someone "accidentally" gets shot...
This is just pure speculation on my part based on no evidence...Since Zimmerman is the only one alive to tell the story, I'll bet dollars to yen that his recall of events will be just as imaginary...
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)That meant that George didn't follow instructions.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Sooner or later most people will snap after being continually followed by a stranger without knowing their intentions...Survival instincts come in and the psyche goes into "fight or flee" mode...It's a perfectly normal reaction...
Withywindle
(9,988 posts)Unless you think following a stranger who's on foot while you're in a car, for it seems like several blocks, at night, somehow ISN'T an act of aggression and isn't likely to make the person you're following scared. Just going by the story as it's laid out here, Zimmerman had already "started it" before he even got out of the car.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)Poor Martin.Coming in from Miami which is diverse, he didn't have a chance if he turned and faced Zimmerman to ask him why he was being followed.
We all know our place in this county. It doesn't pay to ask for help. Nobody cares until it's too late.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)of this "Neighborhood Watch" program...Because there hasn't been any comment from a single person related to that program...
Who is the head authority?
Is there any kind of training?
How many volunteer in this program?
Does Zimmerman wear a uniform and drive a marked car, or wear whatever while driving his own car??
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)If this can happen in a diverse community, then it will be open season in areas which aren't so diverse.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)which can help you determine if people are related?
I use to have a swifty one, but I lost it a long time ago when my computer was wiped out.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)That was wonderful. There is no direct link to the Zimmerman I had in mind, but that doesn't mean anything.
Deep13
(39,154 posts)There is no SOL for murder and, therefore, no hurry to indict. Once indicted or arrested, the defendant's speedy trial clock starts. Better to have a solid case before going to the grand jury.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)"Skittles-carrying teen killed for being black".
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)The Sanford Police Department is investigating, trying to determine whether Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter. No charges have been filed by the local police department, which plans to conclude its investigation soon. At that time, the State Attorney's Office will decide whether to present the evidence to a grand jury.
http://www.bet.com/news/national/2012/03/09/why-was-trayvon-martin-killed.html
knitter4democracy
(14,350 posts)What a horrible tragedy for his family, friends, and loved ones. I can just imagine how angry and hurt everyone at school is.
Disgusting. It's just plain horrific and disgusting.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)With no confirmed witnesses Zimmerman can make up any fairy tale in court...
I hate to be cynical, but I've seen this too many time before with the shooter getting acquitted...
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)...a man shot his fiance the day before their wedding when she walked in at two in the morning. He's tall and she was five feet. He shot her in the hallway at four feet distance and they didn't even charge him with manslaughter. The prosecutor got an award for being the best prosecutor in Florida years later. Need I say more?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Sanford chief: 'No winners, especially for...family' of slain teen, Trayvon Martin
Sanford police plan to turn over Trayvon Martin shooting case to State Attorney's Office Tuesday.
While an angry crowd of critics stood by, sometimes shouting at him, Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee On Monday admitted that his detectives do not have enough evidence to arrest a white neighborhood crime watch volunteer who shot and killed an unarmed black 17-year-old from Miami.
George Zimmerman told police he acted in self defense when he fatally shot Trayvon Martin Feb. 26 in a gated community.
"Until we can establish probable cause to dispute that, we don't have the grounds to arrest him," the chief said.
Sanford police detectives were expected to finish their work on the case Monday, the chief said, and would forward the matter to the state attorney's office Tuesday, which would make a charging decision.
But that did not satisfy the small crowd that had gathered outside Sanford's City Hall. More than a dozen members of Sanford's black community joined a group of reporters and TV cameras to listen to what the chief, mayor and city manager had to say about the case.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-case-20120312,0,3967780.story
babylonsister
(171,092 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Release the 9/11 tapes. If he was told to remain in his vehicle and to not approach - that ought to be enough. I don't get how the burden of proof is on the victim!
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,423 posts)Thanks for the thread, babylonsister.
politicasista
(14,128 posts)Very sad story.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)after he had already called 911? I want to hear that tape. You know damned good and well the operator told him to stay away from him.
And that's why they aren't releasing it. It'll piss people off even more.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I don't know for what reason---Maybe boredom because nothing ever happens in the neighborhood? Wanting to feel more involved in his role as "protector of the innocent?" Or maybe it was just plain old-fashioned racial profiling, but I'm almost convinced he called 911 to report a crime in progress or something so trumped up to transform a teenage pedestrian into Charles Manson...Maybe he just wanted to see how police would react with the intention of harmlessly explaining it away later...
I don't know the demographics of that area, but the city could be sitting on the tapes because they are worried about a riot...Or maybe they just want buy some time so Zimmerman can quietly move to a relative's place before the shit hits the fan...I don't know...
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Probably not enough to charge him but enough to really piss off the public that he isn't being charged.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)babylonsister
(171,092 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Zimmerman asshole disobeyed the directives of the police when he telephoned them to get in his car and STAY there, and instead confronted and pointed a gun at the child and pulled the trigger.
The child's civil rights were violated. That's the least of his worries, certainly, but it's probably the only hook upon which the family of this child can hang their demand for justice.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Just going down to the store to get some snacks to share with his brother while watching a game, then getting his life ended by some Dirty Harry wannabe
fishwax
(29,149 posts)Kennah
(14,315 posts)... but it seems possible the prosecution isn't buying self defense and is continuing to talk with witnesses and assemble evidence. Gunshot residue, for example, could show the range at which the fatal shots were fired. If the shooter lied about that, the noose tightens.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)If he started following Martin on clearly fraudulent pretenses, then nothing Zimmerman did after that can be justified
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)jpak
(41,759 posts)yup
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Not just wrong, complete bullshit.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)According to a police report released yesterday, Zimmerman, who was patrolling the neighbourhood in his car, had initially called police to report 'suspicious person in the area'.
Zimmerman was told to keep his distance
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2113068/He-gun-Trayvon-Skittles-Family-demands-911-tapes-local-Neighbourhood-Watch-captain-shot-unarmed-teen-STILL-charged.html#ixzz1p0wiwrzz
Lilyeye
(1,417 posts)He should have left the kid alone like the cops said. Clearly the kid wasn't in the middle of committing a crime, so he had NO reason to approach him.
spanone
(135,877 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)That child's civil rights were violated by a crazy asswipe who willfully disregarded the directives of police to get in the car and wait for the patrol car to arrive.
Instead, he confronted this child, coming home from the convenience store with candy, and murdered him. This nitwit needs to go to jail. He then needs to be sued blue and stripped of every dime he possesses, so he can't AFFORD to live in a gated community, should he ever see freedom again.
I am so disgusted by the Sanford Police. Between this shit and the assault on birth control/choice for women, I feel like I'm back in the fucking fifties and sixties.
Hell, MAD MEN isn't a tele-novella about a bygone time...it's fucking current events.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)gee I wonder why?
morningfog
(18,115 posts)They gotta protect their own!
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)I can imagine a wide array of possible reasons, most of which will inevitably turn out to be wrong.
ETA however, I would wager that eyewitness accounts will turn out to be more important than the 911 tape.
Rex
(65,616 posts)The cops seem to have no good reason not to release it. Just my guess.
jpak
(41,759 posts)yup
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,198 posts)However, this is arguably a twisted by-product of Florida's Stand Your Ground law, enacted by our illustrious former governor John E. Bush back in 2005. Stand Your Ground says that even if you aren't at home, if you "percieve a threat" you can use deadly force to protect yourself. Shot first, ask questions later.
What was the percieved threat from Treyvon Martin by this POS George Zimmerman? He was a young black male walking in a gated community at night wearing a hooded sweatshirt. That's it.
Just a sick, sick story.
If there's one thing I cannot tolerate, it's vigalantes and people who believe in cowboy justice, and think they have a moral imperative to do so.
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)"Stand your ground" laws simply say that you're not obligated to retreat from a threat before you can defend yourself. All the normal laws about self defense still apply, including and particularly that to exercise lethal or potentially lethal force you must have a reasonable fear of death or severe bodily harm.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)If Zimmerman was getting in Martin's face, perhaps even making threatening gestures or getting grabby, Martin may have been acting (including taking a swing or throwing a full can of tea at Zimmerman) in self-defense.
If this is the case, then Zimmerman, as the attacker, wouldn't be covered by Stand-Your-Ground.
Alcibiades
(5,061 posts)Sad that anyone would defend this. I think some folks just join DU to become trolls.
Paladin
(28,273 posts)...you can count on some of our resident Gun Enthusiasts siding with him. And you're right, it's sad.....
jobycom
(49,038 posts)Just because one story is light on details doesn't mean you can't find them.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2114152/Trayvon-Martin-shot-dead-Police-say-theres-evidence-dispute-claim-neighbourhood-watch-captain-George-Zimmerman-acted-self-defence.html
"A volunteer captain of a Florida neighbourhood watch, who shot dead a black teen and then claimed he acted in self defence, had a 'history of aggressive tactics,' it has today emerged.
Neighbours in George Zimmerman's gated community, at Twin Lakes, near Orlando, had issued complaints about the 26-year-old to local police and the homeowners association before the February 26 shooting, a homeowner said."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-shooting-trayvon-martin-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136#.T1-h_sXCl-M
"ABC News has uncovered questionable police conduct in the investigation of the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager by a white neighborhood watch captain in Florida, including the alleged "correction" of at least one eyewitness' account.
snip
A dispatcher told him to wait for a police cruiser, and not leave his vehicle.
But about a minute later, Zimmerman left his car wearing a red sweatshirt and pursued Martin on foot between two rows of townhouses, about 70 yards from where the teen was going."
http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/13/cnn-legal-contributor-on-fl-shooting-of-trayvon-martin-stand-your-ground-law-moves-castle-doctrine-to-the-street/
Callan tells CNN's Ashleigh Banfield, "
The police have said Mr. [George] Zimmerman, when he was questioned, indicated that he was acting in self-defense, that [Martin] had attacked him and that he had the right to protect himself with a weapon. And Ashleigh, I have to tell you, Florida is one of about 15 states in the United States that have something called a 'Stand Your Ground' law
. And it's very easy to assert self-defense in Florida. This law was signed by Governor Jeb Bush in 2005, and it changed the law in Florida. It said basically that even if you're outside of your home, if you think you're under attack and you have to protect yourself, you can use deadly physical force if you're in fear. You don't have to run or retreat.
-----------------------------------------------
So, basically, black kid goes shopping, is walking back to his own house, gets chased down by an over-aggressive racist who was ordered by the cops not to confront him, they scuffle, the black kid gets shot, and because Florida thinks cowboy movies are cool, the racist will probably not suffer any penalty for it. A bloody nose in Florida is a good enough excuse to kill someone, even if they are 100 pounds lighter than you and unarmed.
To me, the only question, really, is why some Americans think they live in a civilized nation.