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babylonsister

(171,092 posts)
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:20 PM Mar 2012

Black Teen Killed for Carrying Skittles

Black Teen Killed for Carrying Skittles

by Steven D
Mon Mar 12th, 2012 at 11:58:09 AM EST


If you are a young black male, such as Trayvon Martin and you make the mistake of walking home in a gated community in Orlando, FL, with bags of skittles concealed in your pockets, you will be shot and killed. Not by the police, mind you, but by the Captain of a Neighborhood Watch program, who made a 911 call regarding a "suspicious person" back on the evening of February 26th.

Before the police arrived on the scene, 17 year old Trayvon, who was visiting his father's fiancee and his step-brother, was already dead from a single shot to his chest, delivered from a gun carried by by George Zimmerman, a 28 year old white man, and the same individual who made the 911 call. Trayvon had nothing on his person except for 2 bags of skittles and a can of ice tea, which he had purchased at the local 7-11.

Oddly enough, the police investigation of this incident is still ongoing, Mr. Zimmerman (who received a bloody nose from an alleged scuffle with the deceased) isn't talking, and the family of this child (yes 17 is still a child) is questioning the authorities as to why no progress has been made in this case:

Sybrina Fulton, Martin’s mother, said the family thinks her son was killed because he was black.

“I’m a normal mother. I just want justice for my son,” Fulton said, speaking at the same Miami Gardens church where the teen was previously laid to rest. “My heart is broken. I keep thinking he is going to walk in through the door and the nightmare is going to end.”


The police have refused to release the tape of the 911 call Zimmerman made that night, as well as the tapes from other 911 calls made by residents regarding the alleged fight between Zimmerman and Trayvon. The family, frustrated after weeks have passed and nothing has been done, have filed a lawsuit to force the police to turn over the 911 tapes as well as all the other investigative documents. They believe they have been lied to by the police and are being given the run around by the local authorities so that Trayvon's killer can go free.

more...

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2012/3/12/11589/4959
172 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Black Teen Killed for Carrying Skittles (Original Post) babylonsister Mar 2012 OP
is mr. zimmerman on face book. maybe his family would like to know how racist and evil he is? Robeysays Mar 2012 #1
Paging Anonymous! Paging Anonymous! A doxing is in order!!! n/t backscatter712 Mar 2012 #5
Yeah, descend to that idiot's level--that'll help .... NOT. MADem Mar 2012 #99
nobody has stooped this idiot's level until he is lying in a morgue frylock Mar 2012 #156
I'm quite certain his family knows about this incident arcane1 Mar 2012 #7
Has skittles posted since this incident? pipoman Mar 2012 #2
Is that supposed to be funny? Hoyt Mar 2012 #6
Post removed Post removed Mar 2012 #13
Looks like the police have a few questions that need to be answered Rex Mar 2012 #3
There's even more to the story about that as well Major Nikon Mar 2012 #11
Why did they treat Zimmerman like he was special? Rex Mar 2012 #14
It's what I've been trying to tell you all. The Backlash Cometh Mar 2012 #28
I'm wondering who Zimmerman's family is or who he's related to Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #51
I agree. Something is fishy here. MADem Mar 2012 #105
I can't say for sure Major Nikon Mar 2012 #58
Why did Gregory Floyd get a pass on shooting Liko Kinney? Mopar151 Mar 2012 #108
Somebodywho has political connections in the area. The Backlash Cometh Mar 2012 #26
What I've read on this horrible incident indicates the young man was shot for being Black. Hoyt Mar 2012 #4
But it is Florida... LiberalArkie Mar 2012 #9
Yup. Bigots like that love authority Cali_Democrat Mar 2012 #10
authoratay The Backlash Cometh Mar 2012 #29
Hell, I can lay on the ground and punch myself in the nose... angstlessk Mar 2012 #8
Shane did it in Walking Dead last night. The Backlash Cometh Mar 2012 #30
Beware of black men carrying candy! KamaAina Mar 2012 #12
WAY too little info to make a judgement on this, but I doubt that will stop anybody. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #15
Black kid goes to store for candy, gets hassled by white guy with gun. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2012 #17
Did you take video? nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #18
LOL! Rex Mar 2012 #21
What article? nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #23
I read the article. It's light on facts, heavy on assumptions. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2012 #114
Finally, a voice of reason, nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #116
LOL! Rex Mar 2012 #134
Get our guns. We ride tonight! nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #140
Right he shot a kid armed with a bag of skittles. Rex Mar 2012 #130
I'd like to see a demographic breakdown of that gated community azurnoir Mar 2012 #152
Really? Which person is dead? Ikonoklast Mar 2012 #22
So if someone killed an unarmed rapist then..... Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #24
So where did you read of a rape ? Stick with the facts. bahrbearian Mar 2012 #32
No one knows all the facts just yet, so why should I stick with them? Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #43
So if someone is Suspected of rape, its ok to kill them? bahrbearian Mar 2012 #64
Maybe if only caught in the act. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #110
Don't bend over too-far backward sudopod Mar 2012 #89
Yeah, innocent until proven guilty is so passe. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #109
Straw Man. Any argument started with the word "So..." is a fallacious argument. Ikonoklast Mar 2012 #36
No. You said the question was which one was dead. Does that only apply in certain situations? Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #42
Which one had previous violent run-ins with the police? Ikonoklast Mar 2012 #48
So now it's which one is dead, and which one had run-ins with the police? I thought the police Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #50
Another Straw Man. Ikonoklast Mar 2012 #55
You seem to have a misunderstanding of the definition of a straw man. I am just asking you to Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #56
Let's invent scenarios to support our prejudices, then post about facts not in evidence. Ikonoklast Mar 2012 #59
you have specific criteria on who we should cast scorn upon Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #74
I am fine with casting scorn on those who call 911 and THEN start fights morningfog Mar 2012 #117
I see that determining the facts is not your first priority. Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #118
Bullshit. morningfog Mar 2012 #121
Sorry I won't join your mob. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #123
It's no mob, just racial justice. It is clear which side you have joined. morningfog Mar 2012 #126
All mobs seem to yell about justice. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #127
Oh, you're so dramatic. And obvious. morningfog Mar 2012 #128
Let me know when you round up the menfolk and we ride. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #129
Let me know when rich white guys who kill unarmed black men in gated morningfog Mar 2012 #131
It is sad and obvious ain't it? Rex Mar 2012 #133
I totally agree. This is a clear case of racial injustice. morningfog Mar 2012 #136
Can you give me a few other examples? nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #141
Post removed Post removed Mar 2012 #168
So you're saying you can't give me a few other examples? nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #169
Shame on you. morningfog Mar 2012 #103
Did you at least take photos? nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #111
I read the articles. morningfog Mar 2012 #112
Which articles? I don't remember any of them using the phrase "billy badass wannabe cop". Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #113
The articles in the OP and linked from there. morningfog Mar 2012 #115
You do realize that the OP does not cite a news article? Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #119
There are news articles linked from there. morningfog Mar 2012 #122
Yes, Steven D does link to some articles, but none say anything remotely what you are saying. Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #124
Well he was a known troublemaker in his neighborhood. pennylane100 Mar 2012 #148
Could be good info, but "anonymous homeowner" does not make for a good source. Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #149
He was certainly not an annoymous source. pennylane100 Mar 2012 #154
This is all based on the "anonymous homeowner's" account though. Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #155
Jesus, the Dalai Lama and the ghost of Mother Theresa are preparing to come down as we speak Number23 Mar 2012 #163
I have to assume that you do not know the definition of "data". nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #164
When members of the home association are quoted in a nation-wide publication Number23 Mar 2012 #166
What members are quoted? nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #170
Was the 17 year old charged with a crime? Was he even THOUGHT to have committed a crime Number23 Mar 2012 #162
Have either of them been charged with a crime yet? Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #165
Here is some information Boojatta Mar 2012 #37
It's not too early to ask why the cops didn't question him on the record Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #60
you are 100% correct Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #75
So should we wait to comment on ALL stories until they've been adjudicated? DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2012 #66
no. we can ask questions, but maybe we should Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #76
Tell that to Zimmerman Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2012 #82
For the record, I voted to hide this post of yours excuse not to write Mar 2012 #85
Good on you for voting to hide that shit. morningfog Mar 2012 #137
Welcome to DU. ellisonz Mar 2012 #161
I imagine many people believe we should forbid ourselves from discussing a thing LanternWaste Mar 2012 #100
Sad. ellisonz Mar 2012 #16
Seriously, ellison, you use a thread like this to call-out other DUers? petronius Mar 2012 #84
Call-outs aren't against any rule. ellisonz Mar 2012 #86
I wasn't talking about rules, I was talking about standards, manners, and civil discourse (nt) petronius Mar 2012 #87
And I'm talking about the issues... ellisonz Mar 2012 #88
George Zimmerman, Neighborhood Watch Captain Who Shot Trayvon Martin, Charged With Violence Before ellisonz Mar 2012 #19
Thanks for sharing a pic of Trayvon Martin, babylonsister Mar 2012 #27
I think people forget that the victims of gun violence... ellisonz Mar 2012 #34
did you see the video of his mother JI7 Mar 2012 #38
Yikes, that is a young looking 17 year old. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #44
Probably an older pic... ellisonz Mar 2012 #46
Are they saying he was 300lb? nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #47
Really? ellisonz Mar 2012 #52
Sorry, haven't seen any videos and don't know what is recent footage. Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #53
The kid was 140, the killer 200 lbs. morningfog Mar 2012 #104
omg, that pic makes me want to cry...this is such sad story uponit7771 Mar 2012 #92
Here is "Mr." zimmerman and his "squeaky clean record" hobbit709 Mar 2012 #97
Ooooooh, that teen ager looks SCARY... MADem Mar 2012 #101
Post removed Post removed Mar 2012 #20
I've been jumping up and down for years The Backlash Cometh Mar 2012 #25
He could just be part of "good ole boy" network. Hoyt Mar 2012 #33
You think? The Backlash Cometh Mar 2012 #35
Here's a picture of George Zimmerman Cali_Democrat Mar 2012 #41
So that guy's mug followed the teen in a SUV as he walked to 7-11 and followed him straight home Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #65
If there was any scuffle at all... ellisonz Mar 2012 #67
Something happened because George was bloodied, according to one of the articles. The Backlash Cometh Mar 2012 #70
Could have bloodied himself... ellisonz Mar 2012 #73
True, but a scuffle wouldn't surprise me Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #96
Yup. Zimmerman was already committing an aggressive act against Martin. Withywindle Mar 2012 #158
I would like to hear more details. The Backlash Cometh Mar 2012 #69
I'm also curious to know about the professsional standards Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #94
The result is very important. The Backlash Cometh Mar 2012 #120
Does anyone have one of those people finder links The Backlash Cometh Mar 2012 #31
The white pages notadmblnd Mar 2012 #40
Thanks. The Backlash Cometh Mar 2012 #49
Looks like 2nd degree murder to me. Deep13 Mar 2012 #39
I think they got the headline backwards... hughee99 Mar 2012 #45
. Go Vols Mar 2012 #54
What a nice looking young man. knitter4democracy Mar 2012 #172
I hope the delay is only because the prosecutor wants to a strong case... Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #57
This is a county where... The Backlash Cometh Mar 2012 #71
UPDATE: Mayor and Police Chief Press Conference Today Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #61
Self defense for Skittles??? Or was it the tea? Being black is more like it. Jeeze. Pathetic. nt babylonsister Mar 2012 #77
Bullshit. ellisonz Mar 2012 #81
Yeap, the fact that he got out ALREADY poses question of Zimmermans aggression uponit7771 Mar 2012 #93
The Daily Mail has a lot more photos Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #62
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Mar 2012 #63
Kick politicasista Mar 2012 #68
Why did he confront the teen DevonRex Mar 2012 #72
If the 911 recording proved Zimmerman was in the right, it would have been released the day after... Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #106
Yep. It puts the shooter in a bad light. DevonRex Mar 2012 #150
Well, he wasn't killed because he had Skittles. The subject line is a ittle disingenuous. nt Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #78
Why do you think he was killed? I do agree with you. nt babylonsister Mar 2012 #80
He was killed because he was a skinny black kid visiting a family in a gated community and this MADem Mar 2012 #102
Poor kid Art_from_Ark Mar 2012 #79
k/r -- horrible story fishwax Mar 2012 #83
Too little info thus far ... Kennah Mar 2012 #90
The 911 call is still the key, even before ballistics Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #107
Stand Your Ground doesn't mean you can pick a fight with someone and then shoot the person slackmaster Mar 2012 #143
It does in FL jpak Mar 2012 #146
Wrong. slackmaster Mar 2012 #147
Portions of the police report released show he was told to keep his distance. morningfog Mar 2012 #142
This story is heartbreaking. A child is dead because of some disgusting trigger happy idiot. Lilyeye Mar 2012 #91
there's a term for this killing: murder. spanone Mar 2012 #95
They need to make this a FEDERAL CASE. There is no justice in racist Florida, I think. MADem Mar 2012 #98
I hope some credible witnesses come forward, or a video slackmaster Mar 2012 #125
They could release the 911 call, that would help. morningfog Mar 2012 #132
They seem scared to death to release the 911 call Rex Mar 2012 #135
A community of rich white boys. So, what's a dead black boy? morningfog Mar 2012 #138
I'm not willing to read anything into it at this point slackmaster Mar 2012 #139
I am going with the 911 tape as being key evidence. Rex Mar 2012 #145
Another Castle Law get-out-of-jail-free murder jpak Mar 2012 #144
He is not covered by the Castle Doctrine. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #151
Castle only applies to self-defense within your own home. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2012 #159
No, it is not covered by that. TheWraith Mar 2012 #160
Actually, it sounds like Martin may have been protected by "Stand Your Ground" krispos42 Mar 2012 #167
Wow, just wow. Alcibiades Mar 2012 #153
If There's A White Guy With A Gun Involved....... Paladin Mar 2012 #171
You can always Google if you want more details. jobycom Mar 2012 #157
 

Robeysays

(673 posts)
1. is mr. zimmerman on face book. maybe his family would like to know how racist and evil he is?
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:30 PM
Mar 2012

for protection of course. some one with a FB or something must let his family know he's dangerous.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
99. Yeah, descend to that idiot's level--that'll help .... NOT.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 09:03 AM
Mar 2012

Give that asshole a chance to behave like a victim?

That's the worst idea I have ever heard.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
7. I'm quite certain his family knows about this incident
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:36 PM
Mar 2012

If we are reading about it, how could his family NOT know?

Response to Hoyt (Reply #6)

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
3. Looks like the police have a few questions that need to be answered
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:33 PM
Mar 2012

that is unless they want somebody to get away with murder. Sounds a little fishy that Zimmerman had charges dropped from assaulting a cop...why is that? Who ever gets away with assaulting a cop? Something doesn't pass the smell test.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
11. There's even more to the story about that as well
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:44 PM
Mar 2012

The police told the teen's family that the reason they didn't arrest Zimmerman was because he had a squeaky clean record (which he didn't). The police even admitted that they told Zimmerman not to confront the teen prior to the shooting.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
14. Why did they treat Zimmerman like he was special?
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:47 PM
Mar 2012

I've never heard of cops being that way with anybody. That just makes it smell more fishy imo. You would think that taking a persons life would be the most important choice a person will make in their lifetime. From the article, it reads like Zimmerman could not wait to kill that kid with his gun!

I feel so sorry for the parents, their world must be turned upside down right now.

Where is justice for the child?

The Backlash Cometh

(41,358 posts)
28. It's what I've been trying to tell you all.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:11 PM
Mar 2012

In this county, there is a preferred class of people who get a free pass. Even with murder.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
51. I'm wondering who Zimmerman's family is or who he's related to
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:41 PM
Mar 2012

could answer a LOT of questions...

MADem

(135,425 posts)
105. I agree. Something is fishy here.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 09:21 AM
Mar 2012

Even if the intent was to paper over the investigation with bullshit, there needs to be charges, at least. Anything else just stinks on ice.

If the local police and/or the state AG don't do anything, I think this is a federal violation of that child's civil rights. This cannot be allowed to stand.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
58. I can't say for sure
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:59 PM
Mar 2012

However, it certainly gives the appearance that race is a significant factor. Perhaps the police know more about the story, but that doesn't explain why they are being so secretive about it.

From what I've read on the case, I would agree that it appears as if Zimmerman was at best trigger happy and at worst engaged in a racially motivated killing. This is exactly why I'm vehemently against concealed and carry. I sincerely hope the police are doing a complete and thorough investigation of Zimmerman, but I'm not very optimistic of that so far.

Mopar151

(9,999 posts)
108. Why did Gregory Floyd get a pass on shooting Liko Kinney?
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 09:38 AM
Mar 2012
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/collision_course/

Justice is hard to come by, when Kowboy Kops and wanna-be vigilantes mix.......
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
4. What I've read on this horrible incident indicates the young man was shot for being Black.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:33 PM
Mar 2012

Sounds to me that if the kid had not been Black, the "neighborhood watch captain" would not have stopped him. The whole thing is a damn shame, and I hope the police and DA investigate this objectively and fairly.

This is what you get when one gives a bigot a little "authority" and a gun.

angstlessk

(11,862 posts)
8. Hell, I can lay on the ground and punch myself in the nose...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:37 PM
Mar 2012

sorry...if the deceased does not have bruised knuckles...I WOULD QUESTION EVERYTHING THAT ASSHOLE SAYS!

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
12. Beware of black men carrying candy!
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:44 PM
Mar 2012

Another young African American man was gunned down by federal agents in NYC, because he had "a shiny object" that looked to their trigger-happy eyes like a gun.

So they blew him to kingdom come.

The "shiny object" turned out to be a 3 Musketeers bar.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
17. Black kid goes to store for candy, gets hassled by white guy with gun.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:53 PM
Mar 2012

Ends up dead at hands of self-appointed vigilante. Yeah, this is a tough one. Maybe we should form a commission that will report back in a couple of years.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
114. I read the article. It's light on facts, heavy on assumptions.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:43 AM
Mar 2012

Just like a whole bunch of the posts in this thread...

Yes, Zimmerman may well have been motivated by racism. He may very well have had no business confronting Martin (that is, Martin may well have been doing nothing to warrant suspicion). Martin may well not have posed an imminent threat to Zimmerman. But we don't know any of these things...the investigation is still incomplete.

I don't blame Ms. Martin for not trusting the authorities, though...too much history of whitewashing (see what I did there?) violence against black people not to be suspicious. I'd like to see more openness in this investigation: make all the associated 911 calls public, etc.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
130. Right he shot a kid armed with a bag of skittles.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:47 AM
Mar 2012

Such sad apologists in this thread. Sad and pathetic.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
152. I'd like to see a demographic breakdown of that gated community
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 01:29 PM
Mar 2012

I'll wager Martins crime was walking while Black where rich white folks live

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
43. No one knows all the facts just yet, so why should I stick with them?
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:30 PM
Mar 2012

The poster said that we should make a judgment by which one was dead. Does this apply in all situations?

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
36. Straw Man. Any argument started with the word "So..." is a fallacious argument.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:20 PM
Mar 2012

What else you got there, Skippy?

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
42. No. You said the question was which one was dead. Does that only apply in certain situations?
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:29 PM
Mar 2012

Would be useful to know.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
48. Which one had previous violent run-ins with the police?
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:38 PM
Mar 2012

There was no alleged rape occuring, but you got that talking point out there, good for you.

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
50. So now it's which one is dead, and which one had run-ins with the police? I thought the police
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:40 PM
Mar 2012

could not be trusted? I'll have to write these down.

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
56. You seem to have a misunderstanding of the definition of a straw man. I am just asking you to
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:52 PM
Mar 2012

clarify your statement. Something you seem unable to do. If one was dead, but ALSO had run-ins with the law, do they cancel each other out?

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
59. Let's invent scenarios to support our prejudices, then post about facts not in evidence.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 06:03 PM
Mar 2012

Oh, I see you beat me to it.

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
74. you have specific criteria on who we should cast scorn upon
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 08:36 PM
Mar 2012

I'm sorry that you seem to be unable to explain yourself.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
117. I am fine with casting scorn on those who call 911 and THEN start fights
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:49 AM
Mar 2012

and then shoot and kill an unarmed youth.

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
118. I see that determining the facts is not your first priority.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:51 AM
Mar 2012

That very well be what could have happened, but I'd prefer a thorougf investigation.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
121. Bullshit.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:19 AM
Mar 2012

I don't believe you. You come across more as a racist apologist than someone interested in facts.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
131. Let me know when rich white guys who kill unarmed black men in gated
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:49 AM
Mar 2012

communities are treated the same as the rest. Thanks!

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
136. I totally agree. This is a clear case of racial injustice.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:55 AM
Mar 2012

All I'm asking for is that the rich white guy get the same treatment. And that the dead black boy gets the same pursuit of justice had the roles been reversed. If it was self-defense, charge him and make him prove it.

The apologist in this thread is going to great lengths to defend racism. The poster should be ashamed and is a poor representation of this site.

Response to Snake Alchemist (Reply #141)

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
103. Shame on you.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 09:17 AM
Mar 2012

The victim was just walking through his folks neighborhood. The murderer called 911 and THEN got out of his car to confront the kid. Sorry, the white guy is a cold blooded killer.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
112. I read the articles.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:28 AM
Mar 2012

200 pound guy got out AFTER calling 911 to confront a 130 pound kid walking through his folk's neighborhood. Playing billy badass wannabe cop, got punched in the nose after picking a fight. Then he shot the kid dead.

Since it was in a gated community and it was white on black murder, the asshole is getting treated with kid gloves. I can see where you come down on it.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
115. The articles in the OP and linked from there.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:44 AM
Mar 2012

The accounts are pretty clear. As are the lengths you are going to to cast doubts and defend the killer. Carry on...

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
119. You do realize that the OP does not cite a news article?
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:55 AM
Mar 2012

Although Steven D's work is well known on CNN-i, the NYT, and Nat Geo.

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
124. Yes, Steven D does link to some articles, but none say anything remotely what you are saying.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:27 AM
Mar 2012

It may very well have happened the way you believe, but we should wait for all the facts to come out before we form a posse.

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
149. Could be good info, but "anonymous homeowner" does not make for a good source.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 01:12 PM
Mar 2012

Should be a lot more info pouring out today.

pennylane100

(3,425 posts)
154. He was certainly not an annoymous source.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 02:47 PM
Mar 2012

While the article did not name the person complaining about the shooter's behavior, he certainly was not anonymous. Both the police and the community knew him and his problems with Zimmerman

At an emergency homeowner’s association meeting on March 1, “one man was escorted out because he openly expressed his frustration because he had previously contacted the Sanford Police Department about Zimmerman approaching him and even coming to his home,” the resident wrote in an email to HuffPost. “It was also made known that there had been several complaints about George Zimmerman and his tactics" in his neighborhood watch captain role.

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
155. This is all based on the "anonymous homeowner's" account though.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 02:49 PM
Mar 2012

Could have happened word for word as stated, but just saying.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
163. Jesus, the Dalai Lama and the ghost of Mother Theresa are preparing to come down as we speak
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 07:44 PM
Mar 2012

They have prepared a sworn and signed affidavit that they hope will convince you.

Your insistence of "data" EVEN WHEN PRESENTED WITH THEM is extraordinarily telling.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
166. When members of the home association are quoted in a nation-wide publication
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:07 PM
Mar 2012

as having complained several times about the overly aggressive nature of the shooter; when it is well documented that the 911 operator specifically told the shooter to stand down and someone still screams that they need more "data" in order to determine if this is a case of "walking while black," then it's obvious what's going on. Particularly when requests for data follow the tossing of little gems about "rapists" as if that has any bearing on the situation at hand.

Reminds me of a now tombstoned poster who absolutely REFUSED to accept that blacks are prosecuted more heavily and with greater prison sentences for crimes that white people are actually more likely to commit. When submitted with countless studies and even Congressional testimony that supported the statement, he kept asking for "more data." It was apparent to everyone reading that thread exactly what was going on, just as it is apparent to everyone reading this thread what is going on here.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
162. Was the 17 year old charged with a crime? Was he even THOUGHT to have committed a crime
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 07:34 PM
Mar 2012

except walking through a neighborhood and possessing skin of a particular hue that AUTOMATICALLY makes him guilty/suspicious in the eyes of far too many?


So if someone killed an unarmed rapist then.


Wow. The facts are that this story has been ongoing for days and there has never even been a HINT that this boy did anything besides walk to his daddy's house. And yet here you are, tossing out scenarios involving rapists I guess in an idiotic attempt to say that this kid COULD have been up to something even though there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that. And I bet you are the first person here "reminding" everyone of how liberal you are and trumpeting those liberal creds, aren't you?

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
165. Have either of them been charged with a crime yet?
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 09:27 PM
Mar 2012

I wan't the one who through out a scenario. A previous poster said I would know who to hate based on who was unarmed and who was dead. I was just asking to elaborate on this new rule.

 

Boojatta

(12,231 posts)
37. Here is some information
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:21 PM
Mar 2012
Iced tea was the favorite drink of Karen and Richard, and he composed an ambitious instrumental with that title that was a showcase for Wes Jacob’s tuba and Karen’s drumming.

Link:
http://www.richardandkarencarpenter.com/biography-2.htm

However, there's a lot that we still don't know. Did Zimmerman ever listen to the music of the Carpenters? Would Karen Carpenter have enjoyed skittles? Did Zimmerman ever eat twinkies?

http://www.snopes.com/legal/twinkie.asp

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
60. It's not too early to ask why the cops didn't question him on the record
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 06:04 PM
Mar 2012

and why the cops haven't released the statement/911 call he gave

and why they lied to the victim's family about him having a clean record

and why he continued to tail the victim after being told by 911 dispatch to back off and let the real cops handle it...


The 911 recording is key...I want to know exactly how he described the situation for 911 to send the police over -- "suspicious behavior" usually doesn't cut it, and if he started some bullshit about witnessing a crime in progress or that the kid was an exact match of some wanted criminal, then god help him...

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
66. So should we wait to comment on ALL stories until they've been adjudicated?
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 06:44 PM
Mar 2012

Or shall we just wait for word from you that it's now OK to discuss this story or that?

I'm going to go ahead and side with the victim on this one, if it doesn't make you too angry.

 
85. For the record, I voted to hide this post of yours
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:55 AM
Mar 2012

"Lynching" is a word that SHOULD NOT be used in a case like this.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
137. Good on you for voting to hide that shit.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:57 AM
Mar 2012

He is clearly a racist-sympathizer and apologist, if not more. Bringing the term lynching in further reveals his true beliefs.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
161. Welcome to DU.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 06:23 PM
Mar 2012
YOUR COMMENTS:

This post is over-the-top. No one is proposing that Mr. Zimmerman be lynched. This is a very rude characterization of his fellow DUers.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Mar 12, 2012, 11:39 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I think the word 'lynching' is used more in a figurative sense.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: The word "Lynching" doesn't belon in a story about a white guy killing a black kid.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Alerting/hiding is not a valid substitute for rebutting an argument about potentially premature judgment calls. I see nothing over the top about this post. (and no, using the word "lynch"doesn't make it over the top)
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: in context of the discussion, this comment appears to be inappropriate.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: Using the term lynching in a post about an AfricanAmerican kid being killed is certainly insensitive and a little over the top.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I think the comment was sarcastic, and not intended to refer to a literal lynching. Please leave this comment.

Thank you.
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
100. I imagine many people believe we should forbid ourselves from discussing a thing
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 09:05 AM
Mar 2012

I imagine many people believe we should forbid ourselves from discussing a thing until and unless absolute knowledge is achieved-- "but I doubt that will stop anybody" (how about that-- the petulant and passive aggressive digs *are* viscerally satisfying. Good to know).

Additionally, as the personal judgements and discourses have little legal standing, and do not change the case or its evidence, and as it seems that they do in fact, do any harm in and of themselves, an inconsequential conversation is , at its worst, merely an aggravation you.

However, I'm certain you believe that you yourself have brought a relevant and salient point to the table, and it will of course, be allowed all the consideration it is, in fact, warranted.

petronius

(26,603 posts)
84. Seriously, ellison, you use a thread like this to call-out other DUers?
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:48 AM
Mar 2012

You really should delete this...

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
86. Call-outs aren't against any rule.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 01:04 AM
Mar 2012

The threads linked are relevant to the topic of conversation and as you well know I'm no lover of gun violence. I think I'll let my post stand. If you want to see a call out thread - I'm controlling my dismay at this incident in the best way I know, pointing out the ridiculousness of the culture that puts a gun in that mans hand and tells him to confront a teenager over nothing. If you don't like it, I suggest you go down-thread and see that the local police department won't be charging this POS Zimmerman. I'm tired of being told that more guns is the answer - it's not as this thread illustrates quite well

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
88. And I'm talking about the issues...
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 01:22 AM
Mar 2012

Don't like it, sorry but that's not uncivil - if you believe it to be a violation of the DU Community Standards, by all means, alert on the post.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
19. George Zimmerman, Neighborhood Watch Captain Who Shot Trayvon Martin, Charged With Violence Before
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:55 PM
Mar 2012

First Posted: 03/ 9/2012 6:45 pm Updated: 03/12/2012 11:36 am

An attorney for the family of Trayvon Martin, the teenager shot to death last month by a neighborhood watch captain in an Orlando, Fla., suburb, said police withheld the shooter's violent past from the slain youth's family.

Police initially told Martin’s family that George Zimmerman, 28, admitted to shooting Martin, 17, on Feb. 26, after he called 911 and reported a suspicious person, said the attorney, Benjamin Crump. Zimmerman said the shooting was in self-defense, police said.

Zimmerman, who is white, has not been charged in the death of Martin, who was black. Police in Sanford, where the shooting occurred, told Martin’s family that Zimmerman had a “squeaky-clean” record and that’s why they had not arrested him, according to Tracy Martin, the teen’s father.

Crump said public records show that Zimmerman was arrested in Orange County in 2005 on charges of resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer.

More: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1335984.html

babylonsister

(171,092 posts)
27. Thanks for sharing a pic of Trayvon Martin,
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:09 PM
Mar 2012

and the additional info. As tragic as I first thought this was, seeing the young man makes it seem even more so.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
34. I think people forget that the victims of gun violence...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:19 PM
Mar 2012

...are people just like you and I. There's something about our culture that allows us to compartmentalize their deaths as meaningless or insignificant. That we've allowed the gun violence debate in this country to be politically marginalized and shunted by "libertarian" extremists is shameful.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
46. Probably an older pic...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:35 PM
Mar 2012

...but it really doesn't seem like he was a 6'10 300 pound menace who could kill with his bare hands in an instant.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
52. Really?
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:43 PM
Mar 2012

You missed the sarcasm? Judging from the pictures in the news videos he couldn't have been more than 6 feet and 160 - he wasn't a big kid.

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
53. Sorry, haven't seen any videos and don't know what is recent footage.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:44 PM
Mar 2012

Sarcasm totally flew past me. Kids seem to grow big these days.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
101. Ooooooh, that teen ager looks SCARY...
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 09:11 AM
Mar 2012

Bet he looked like a die hard thug waving that sack of skittles....

Do I need to put this up?

Response to babylonsister (Original post)

The Backlash Cometh

(41,358 posts)
25. I've been jumping up and down for years
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:07 PM
Mar 2012

trying to tell you something is wrong with this county, but nobody seems to care.

Without knowing if it will lead to anything, I suggest someone look into finding out if Zimmerman is related to anyone with connections. That's how things usually work.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
65. So that guy's mug followed the teen in a SUV as he walked to 7-11 and followed him straight home
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 06:41 PM
Mar 2012

Martin feels afraid/offended/suspicious/nervous/angry and confronts Zimmerman wanting to know why he's being followed, because it's not like he's a real cop to begin with (and anyone can buy a uniform and call themselves anything)...Of course Zimmerman doesn't have a legit reason, only a flimsy bullshit excuse that only feeds the fire because Martin is old enough to know the indignity of doing "____ while black" or maybe he thinks Zimmerman is a fraud or a burglar trying to sniff out where he lives...Things escalate, a scuffle ensues and without cause or warning, someone "accidentally" gets shot...

This is just pure speculation on my part based on no evidence...Since Zimmerman is the only one alive to tell the story, I'll bet dollars to yen that his recall of events will be just as imaginary...

The Backlash Cometh

(41,358 posts)
70. Something happened because George was bloodied, according to one of the articles.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 07:15 PM
Mar 2012

That meant that George didn't follow instructions.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
96. True, but a scuffle wouldn't surprise me
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 08:55 AM
Mar 2012

Sooner or later most people will snap after being continually followed by a stranger without knowing their intentions...Survival instincts come in and the psyche goes into "fight or flee" mode...It's a perfectly normal reaction...

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
158. Yup. Zimmerman was already committing an aggressive act against Martin.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 04:30 PM
Mar 2012

Unless you think following a stranger who's on foot while you're in a car, for it seems like several blocks, at night, somehow ISN'T an act of aggression and isn't likely to make the person you're following scared. Just going by the story as it's laid out here, Zimmerman had already "started it" before he even got out of the car.

The Backlash Cometh

(41,358 posts)
69. I would like to hear more details.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 07:13 PM
Mar 2012

Poor Martin.Coming in from Miami which is diverse, he didn't have a chance if he turned and faced Zimmerman to ask him why he was being followed.

We all know our place in this county. It doesn't pay to ask for help. Nobody cares until it's too late.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
94. I'm also curious to know about the professsional standards
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 08:49 AM
Mar 2012

of this "Neighborhood Watch" program...Because there hasn't been any comment from a single person related to that program...

Who is the head authority?
Is there any kind of training?
How many volunteer in this program?
Does Zimmerman wear a uniform and drive a marked car, or wear whatever while driving his own car??

The Backlash Cometh

(41,358 posts)
120. The result is very important.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:02 AM
Mar 2012

If this can happen in a diverse community, then it will be open season in areas which aren't so diverse.

The Backlash Cometh

(41,358 posts)
31. Does anyone have one of those people finder links
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:16 PM
Mar 2012

which can help you determine if people are related?

I use to have a swifty one, but I lost it a long time ago when my computer was wiped out.

The Backlash Cometh

(41,358 posts)
49. Thanks.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:38 PM
Mar 2012

That was wonderful. There is no direct link to the Zimmerman I had in mind, but that doesn't mean anything.

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
39. Looks like 2nd degree murder to me.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:25 PM
Mar 2012

There is no SOL for murder and, therefore, no hurry to indict. Once indicted or arrested, the defendant's speedy trial clock starts. Better to have a solid case before going to the grand jury.

Go Vols

(5,902 posts)
54. .
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:45 PM
Mar 2012



The Sanford Police Department is investigating, trying to determine whether Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter. No charges have been filed by the local police department, which plans to conclude its investigation soon. At that time, the State Attorney's Office will decide whether to present the evidence to a grand jury.

http://www.bet.com/news/national/2012/03/09/why-was-trayvon-martin-killed.html

knitter4democracy

(14,350 posts)
172. What a nice looking young man.
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 08:37 AM
Mar 2012

What a horrible tragedy for his family, friends, and loved ones. I can just imagine how angry and hurt everyone at school is.

Disgusting. It's just plain horrific and disgusting.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
57. I hope the delay is only because the prosecutor wants to a strong case...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:52 PM
Mar 2012

With no confirmed witnesses Zimmerman can make up any fairy tale in court...

I hate to be cynical, but I've seen this too many time before with the shooter getting acquitted...

The Backlash Cometh

(41,358 posts)
71. This is a county where...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 07:18 PM
Mar 2012

...a man shot his fiance the day before their wedding when she walked in at two in the morning. He's tall and she was five feet. He shot her in the hallway at four feet distance and they didn't even charge him with manslaughter. The prosecutor got an award for being the best prosecutor in Florida years later. Need I say more?

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
61. UPDATE: Mayor and Police Chief Press Conference Today
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 06:11 PM
Mar 2012

Sanford chief: 'No winners, especially for...family' of slain teen, Trayvon Martin
Sanford police plan to turn over Trayvon Martin shooting case to State Attorney's Office Tuesday.



While an angry crowd of critics stood by, sometimes shouting at him, Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee On Monday admitted that his detectives do not have enough evidence to arrest a white neighborhood crime watch volunteer who shot and killed an unarmed black 17-year-old from Miami.

George Zimmerman told police he acted in self defense when he fatally shot Trayvon Martin Feb. 26 in a gated community.

"Until we can establish probable cause to dispute that, we don't have the grounds to arrest him," the chief said.

Sanford police detectives were expected to finish their work on the case Monday, the chief said, and would forward the matter to the state attorney's office Tuesday, which would make a charging decision.

But that did not satisfy the small crowd that had gathered outside Sanford's City Hall. More than a dozen members of Sanford's black community joined a group of reporters and TV cameras to listen to what the chief, mayor and city manager had to say about the case.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-case-20120312,0,3967780.story

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
81. Bullshit.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:32 AM
Mar 2012

Release the 9/11 tapes. If he was told to remain in his vehicle and to not approach - that ought to be enough. I don't get how the burden of proof is on the victim!

DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
72. Why did he confront the teen
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 07:25 PM
Mar 2012

after he had already called 911? I want to hear that tape. You know damned good and well the operator told him to stay away from him.

And that's why they aren't releasing it. It'll piss people off even more.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
106. If the 911 recording proved Zimmerman was in the right, it would have been released the day after...
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 09:29 AM
Mar 2012

I don't know for what reason---Maybe boredom because nothing ever happens in the neighborhood? Wanting to feel more involved in his role as "protector of the innocent?" Or maybe it was just plain old-fashioned racial profiling, but I'm almost convinced he called 911 to report a crime in progress or something so trumped up to transform a teenage pedestrian into Charles Manson...Maybe he just wanted to see how police would react with the intention of harmlessly explaining it away later...

I don't know the demographics of that area, but the city could be sitting on the tapes because they are worried about a riot...Or maybe they just want buy some time so Zimmerman can quietly move to a relative's place before the shit hits the fan...I don't know...

DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
150. Yep. It puts the shooter in a bad light.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 01:23 PM
Mar 2012

Probably not enough to charge him but enough to really piss off the public that he isn't being charged.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
102. He was killed because he was a skinny black kid visiting a family in a gated community and this
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 09:16 AM
Mar 2012

Zimmerman asshole disobeyed the directives of the police when he telephoned them to get in his car and STAY there, and instead confronted and pointed a gun at the child and pulled the trigger.

The child's civil rights were violated. That's the least of his worries, certainly, but it's probably the only hook upon which the family of this child can hang their demand for justice.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
79. Poor kid
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 09:28 PM
Mar 2012

Just going down to the store to get some snacks to share with his brother while watching a game, then getting his life ended by some Dirty Harry wannabe

Kennah

(14,315 posts)
90. Too little info thus far ...
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 01:52 AM
Mar 2012

... but it seems possible the prosecution isn't buying self defense and is continuing to talk with witnesses and assemble evidence. Gunshot residue, for example, could show the range at which the fatal shots were fired. If the shooter lied about that, the noose tightens.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
107. The 911 call is still the key, even before ballistics
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 09:34 AM
Mar 2012

If he started following Martin on clearly fraudulent pretenses, then nothing Zimmerman did after that can be justified

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
142. Portions of the police report released show he was told to keep his distance.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:16 PM
Mar 2012
According to a police report released yesterday, Zimmerman, who was patrolling the neighbourhood in his car, had initially called police to report 'suspicious person in the area'.

Zimmerman was told to keep his distance


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2113068/He-gun-Trayvon-Skittles-Family-demands-911-tapes-local-Neighbourhood-Watch-captain-shot-unarmed-teen-STILL-charged.html#ixzz1p0wiwrzz

Lilyeye

(1,417 posts)
91. This story is heartbreaking. A child is dead because of some disgusting trigger happy idiot.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 08:11 AM
Mar 2012

He should have left the kid alone like the cops said. Clearly the kid wasn't in the middle of committing a crime, so he had NO reason to approach him.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
98. They need to make this a FEDERAL CASE. There is no justice in racist Florida, I think.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 09:02 AM
Mar 2012

That child's civil rights were violated by a crazy asswipe who willfully disregarded the directives of police to get in the car and wait for the patrol car to arrive.

Instead, he confronted this child, coming home from the convenience store with candy, and murdered him. This nitwit needs to go to jail. He then needs to be sued blue and stripped of every dime he possesses, so he can't AFFORD to live in a gated community, should he ever see freedom again.

I am so disgusted by the Sanford Police. Between this shit and the assault on birth control/choice for women, I feel like I'm back in the fucking fifties and sixties.

Hell, MAD MEN isn't a tele-novella about a bygone time...it's fucking current events.

 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
139. I'm not willing to read anything into it at this point
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:59 AM
Mar 2012

I can imagine a wide array of possible reasons, most of which will inevitably turn out to be wrong.

ETA however, I would wager that eyewitness accounts will turn out to be more important than the 911 tape.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
145. I am going with the 911 tape as being key evidence.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:47 PM
Mar 2012

The cops seem to have no good reason not to release it. Just my guess.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,198 posts)
159. Castle only applies to self-defense within your own home.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 04:37 PM
Mar 2012

However, this is arguably a twisted by-product of Florida's Stand Your Ground law, enacted by our illustrious former governor John E. Bush back in 2005. Stand Your Ground says that even if you aren't at home, if you "percieve a threat" you can use deadly force to protect yourself. Shot first, ask questions later.

What was the percieved threat from Treyvon Martin by this POS George Zimmerman? He was a young black male walking in a gated community at night wearing a hooded sweatshirt. That's it.

Just a sick, sick story.

If there's one thing I cannot tolerate, it's vigalantes and people who believe in cowboy justice, and think they have a moral imperative to do so.

TheWraith

(24,331 posts)
160. No, it is not covered by that.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 06:12 PM
Mar 2012

"Stand your ground" laws simply say that you're not obligated to retreat from a threat before you can defend yourself. All the normal laws about self defense still apply, including and particularly that to exercise lethal or potentially lethal force you must have a reasonable fear of death or severe bodily harm.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
167. Actually, it sounds like Martin may have been protected by "Stand Your Ground"
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:31 PM
Mar 2012

If Zimmerman was getting in Martin's face, perhaps even making threatening gestures or getting grabby, Martin may have been acting (including taking a swing or throwing a full can of tea at Zimmerman) in self-defense.

If this is the case, then Zimmerman, as the attacker, wouldn't be covered by Stand-Your-Ground.

Paladin

(28,273 posts)
171. If There's A White Guy With A Gun Involved.......
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 08:34 AM
Mar 2012

...you can count on some of our resident Gun Enthusiasts siding with him. And you're right, it's sad.....

jobycom

(49,038 posts)
157. You can always Google if you want more details.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 03:49 PM
Mar 2012

Just because one story is light on details doesn't mean you can't find them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2114152/Trayvon-Martin-shot-dead-Police-say-theres-evidence-dispute-claim-neighbourhood-watch-captain-George-Zimmerman-acted-self-defence.html

"A volunteer captain of a Florida neighbourhood watch, who shot dead a black teen and then claimed he acted in self defence, had a 'history of aggressive tactics,' it has today emerged.
Neighbours in George Zimmerman's gated community, at Twin Lakes, near Orlando, had issued complaints about the 26-year-old to local police and the homeowners association before the February 26 shooting, a homeowner said."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-shooting-trayvon-martin-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136#.T1-h_sXCl-M

"ABC News has uncovered questionable police conduct in the investigation of the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager by a white neighborhood watch captain in Florida, including the alleged "correction" of at least one eyewitness' account.

snip

A dispatcher told him to wait for a police cruiser, and not leave his vehicle.

But about a minute later, Zimmerman left his car wearing a red sweatshirt and pursued Martin on foot between two rows of townhouses, about 70 yards from where the teen was going."


http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/13/cnn-legal-contributor-on-fl-shooting-of-trayvon-martin-stand-your-ground-law-moves-castle-doctrine-to-the-street/

Callan tells CNN's Ashleigh Banfield, "…The police have said Mr. [George] Zimmerman, when he was questioned, indicated that he was acting in self-defense, that [Martin] had attacked him and that he had the right to protect himself with a weapon. And Ashleigh, I have to tell you, Florida is one of about 15 states in the United States that have something called a 'Stand Your Ground' law…. And it's very easy to assert self-defense in Florida. This law was signed by Governor Jeb Bush in 2005, and it changed the law in Florida. It said basically that even if you're outside of your home, if you think you're under attack and you have to protect yourself, you can use deadly physical force if you're in fear. You don't have to run or retreat.”

-----------------------------------------------

So, basically, black kid goes shopping, is walking back to his own house, gets chased down by an over-aggressive racist who was ordered by the cops not to confront him, they scuffle, the black kid gets shot, and because Florida thinks cowboy movies are cool, the racist will probably not suffer any penalty for it. A bloody nose in Florida is a good enough excuse to kill someone, even if they are 100 pounds lighter than you and unarmed.

To me, the only question, really, is why some Americans think they live in a civilized nation.

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