DU: porn vs TPP

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

Last 8 threads about porn

1. 140 replies
2. 303
3. 81
4. 17
5. 173
6. 123
7. 34
8. 59

Last 8 threads about TPP

1. 11 replies
2. 0
3. 1
4. 2
5. 1
6. 5
7. 9
8.4

Better than Obama/Clinton could possibly hope for.

[stevenleser]

1. Best part is that in the porn threads, no ones mind is changed and the legal situation cant change

It is a totally wasted exercise that pits two groups against each other that will not ever change their minds.

It really ought to have its own dungeon.

[Warren DeMontague]

6. Porngeon! Smut Hut!

Demosmutic Underhut!

[stevenleser]

13. LOL, that wasn't exactly what I meant...

[BootinUp]

2. Lets do a poll.

j/k

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

4. I think people will need to Google TPP before they vote...

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. What is TTP? (I kid, I kid)

But I wish I was not half way serious there.

[Voice for Peace]

65. I did a google for DU Porn dot com, and it took me to JC Penny's

that was encouraging.

[Warren DeMontague]

3. because anyone with an internet connection can easily find out what porn is

the actual text of the TPP, not so much.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

8. Not so...

Just not on DU's radar.

Bernie Sanders, Thom Hartman, Ed Schultz talk about it every day.

Each thread has a link to an article.

The greatest concern now is that Obama is hoping to fast track it. The Obamacare fiasco is providing him a nice smoke screen.

[westerebus]

22. DU google 8040 postings re TPP

Call me crazy, but...

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

28. westerebus getting off to porn

https://www.google.com/search?q=westerebus+porn&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

[westerebus]

70. Well that's weird.

I've posted about the TPP in the economy group and occasionally in GD over the last four years. I've been a critic of it from the get go. On the other hand...

westerebus gets off on porn...fixed it for you...it's not just for breakfast any more..

[Warren DeMontague]

42. I'm not talking about "what the TPP is", I'm talking about what the actual agreement SAYS.

Which is, AFAIUI, still hush-hush secret... which makes it hard to discount things that are said about it, hyperbolic or no.

I think the first thing that process needs is full transparency, I don't think anyone could argue with that.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

44. full transparency/prevent it from being fast tracked...agreed

[loli phabay]

11. pretty sure tpp stands for some sexual act.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. ***

[loli phabay]

46. lol, submission is the best option.

[arely staircase]

47. holy shit I just made a B&BH reference below without seeing this

I think you are right about our demographics.

[loli phabay]

50. i know who they are, but never seen it before.

[arely staircase]

5. Have Clinton or Obama weighed in on the DU Porn Wars?

And by Clinton I mean Hillary. Pretty sure I know where Bill stands.

[jazzimov]

41. Hey, Bill doesn't STAND for it!

Sorry, but someone had to say it!

[arely staircase]

44. I know its hard (beavis and butthead snicker here)

not to launch into a million I Love the 90s BC dick jokes at this point. But I will refrain.

[RainDog]

49. I thought he was standing for it

Didn't the Divine Ms. L state she was buying knee pads before she took that job? Why yes, she did.

I still think that whole thing was a set up by the ratphuckers - it's just too convenient that Lucianne Goldberg, who was a freaking mole on McGovern's campaign bus, and Linda Tripp were besties with Monica.

[mdbl]

66. isn't Linda Tripp really John Goodman?

[RainDog]

72. more like John Mitchell

he helped with the scam by covering for the perpetrators.

[arely staircase]

81. the John Goodman/Linda Tripp SNL skits were some of their best ever nt

[RainDog]

86. WHOOoooosh

sound

-> my head

[libodem]

80. Yep

Always thought so.

[RainDog]

87. what's a little wiretapping between friends, right?

Lucianne Goldberg, in a 1997 interview published in the New York Times, claimed that she had advised Tripp to record her conversations with Lewinsky in order to obtain factual proof for a book deal.

Oh, and Goldberg's son is a nasty piece of work, too, with his lies trying to conflate liberalism with fascism.

[libodem]

88. I agree the

Son is a pseudo-intellectual impostor. Seems like his book had a term like 'Islamofascism', in the title?

Who makes that shit up?

[RainDog]

89. No, Joshie wrote

Liberal Fascism - and used all the right wing tps about Hitler and socialism - the same stuff you hear among tea baggers now. And then, of course, Coulter, who was a "pixie" - a lawyer who worked with Clinton haters in Ark. to just throw stuff at him, constantly - tried to rehabilitate McCarthy because, according to conservatives, he was right.

I read Joe Conason's book, The Hunting of the President, about the whole mess. Everyone involved in the 70 million dollars of tax payer money wasted investigating a blow job was rewarded handsomely for their participation.

We see them now doing the same things to Obama - just in a different key.

[libodem]

90. Exactly

That is how I see it as well.

[lumberjack_jeff]

9. Popular discussion topics at discussion sites tend to be those that reflect disagreement/controversy

TPP isn't very controversial here; we all hate it and we could rail against it, but there are precious few elected officials (democrat or otherwise) who deserve praise.

[arely staircase]

48. correct

Nobody is covered in glory on that one.

[davidpdx]

59. We are cumming together against it

[arely staircase]

60. yeah I really didn't mean it that way

consciously anyway. But I confess I realized it afterward and didn't change it.

We have to stop.

[el_bryanto]

10. It's easy to have an opinion on Porn

It's harder to have an opinion on TPP

Also - I think that there's less to say about TPP - I am pretty close to a free market advocate, but even I can see that TPP is pretty awful. It's hard to have much of a discussion when everybody agrees that it's awfful.

Bryant

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

12. porn is the new pornography of DU

It's gotten pornographic.

[riderinthestorm]

14. Wow. Gotta K&R this. nt

[LittleBlue]

15. We know how to prioritize

Don't mess with mah porn

[RainDog]

16. I've already come down against the TPP

and against the total lack of transparency regarding the contents of the same.

This is just an example of the bread and circuses of empire... people can fight all day about porn, but the real, substantive issues that actually improve the lives of Americans are outside of their ability to influence, for the most part.

...as we also saw in regard to the banker bailout/homeowner bankruptcy moment.

After a while, people get cynical about politics when they're only supposed to show up to vote, then their views on issues are ignored because a very few actually influence policy on trade issues, environmental issues, tax issues, etc. etc. etc.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

69. But did you come up for porn?

[RainDog]

71. lol. Some might perceive my position that way... n/t

[CTyankee]

17. Let me guess: all MALES on this thread (so far)?

(Of course, I am the exception...).

Hmm....

[el_bryanto]

19. Your point being ? nt

[CTyankee]

20. what do you think? I'm listening...

[el_bryanto]

23. It could mean any number of things - so want to make sure I know what you mean

That's why i asked.

Bryant

[CTyankee]

24. I wonder, which is why I ask.

Now I question if I should have identified myself as female. Perhaps your response would have been different. But I don't know that for sure...

[el_bryanto]

25. Probably would have been the same - but what would be the significance

if everybody were male?

Bryant

[CTyankee]

27. My point indeed...

[el_bryanto]

30. I see what you are saying. Males like myself are insensitive to the vast cruelties of TPP

We want to focus on Porn instead of realizing that TPP will hurt real people real women real men and real children.

Bryant

[CTyankee]

32. Goodness! Don't put too fine a point on this, Bryant! Really!

Hey, calm down, not offense intended....just an observation...I thought it was interesting...

[RainDog]

38. wrong. I count three females I know of before you posted

but people make assumptions about gender here a lot.

[ThoughtCriminal]

58. Oh, uhmmm, ehhh, well...

I was here for the TPP discussion and uh, the articles. Yes, that's it, the articles.

[pintobean]

64. Who started all those porn threads?

Many of them originated in HOF, but I think you knew that.

[arcane1]

18. I suspect this is, in part, because there are many conflicting opinions on porn

Whereas everyone hates the TPP

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

33. That seems to be the default reply, but it's also accompanied by a forfeit

Not saying you have forfeited on TPP but reading through, others have.

Already 130 members of congress (current, past, and bipartisan) have asked for more transparency which would derail Obama's wish to fast track the agreement.

Can't we influence our congressional reps anymore?

Here's who have signed the letter.

http://www.publicknowledge.org/files/TPP%20Letter%20FINAL.pdf

That was 2012. Since there's bipartisan opposition, I urge folks to get on the phone. The media is complicit in this. We can't be.

[MannyGoldstein]

21. Perhaps the TPP is less controversial

Virtually all DUers are against it, I believe.

So nothing to argue about.

But your point is well taken, it would be good to get some energy into destroying the infernal partnership.

[FreeJoe]

26. To be fair...

I created a thread about the TPP and porn. I would have included JFK conspiracies, but I was afraid of drawing unwanted attention.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024117820

[CTyankee]

29. I agree with you...things somehow work out differently...I myself was drawing that

distinction...

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

34. To be fair to whom?

I applaud you for starting a thread about TPP.

My post isn't about you. It's about the reply counts, or lack thereof, to the TPP threads.

So, who are you asking I "be fair" to? westerebus?

westerebus + TPP = 0 posts

https://www.google.com/search?q=westerebus+TPP&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

[westerebus]

76. October 2 2013 economy group

October 5 2013 economy group

August 2013 GD

Some times Google isn't that accurate.

Those would be replies.

I did a search my posts. 1 Nov 2012 to present.

To be fair, I thought there would be a few more.

[KoKo]

37. Porn Posts have always been popular here on DU. We have many libertarians

who vote Democratic. Porn Freedom is a huge issue with them along with Violent Video Games.

They've always been here and vocal about their stands. When there's a vacuum of posts on Progressive Dem Issues...they fill in with their priorities.

On Edit: I've been here since 2001.

[RainDog]

40. who are libertarians here who vote Democratic?

Free speech and honest research are Democratic positions.

This seems to be a new meme on DU, however. Anyone who disagrees with someone is a libertarian, not a Democrat. I also saw it in relation to the Snowden threads.

Not to say there aren't libertarians here.

But it is to say that Democrats have traditionally been aligned with the ACLU while conservatives have been opposed.

There are conservatives within the Democratic Party who vote with the Democrats while they are social conservatives, however.

[CorrectOfCenter]

31. I'd rather hear about the issues that matter to most Americans:

Comprehensive immigration reform, expanded background checks on guns, raising the minimum wage and averting another government shutdown should be top priorities for all Democrats.

These sideshow issues are distractions from the core agenda of our party.

[NuclearDem]

35. You would think stopping the biggest corporate coup since Citizens United would be one too.

Because good luck to labor and any sort of minimum wage increase if corporate America gets even more power through TPP.

Defeating that should be a core principle. Corporate power and influence have done nothing but denigrate progressive ideas.

[Revanchist]

36. It would be interesting to see how many views the threads had also.

Maybe they aren't talking in the threads but if they are reading them and coming away with information that they can use elsewhere at least that would be something. On the other hand if people don't respond to the TPP threads than they will quickly drop down on the page and be missed by others.

[Laelth]

55. +1. n/t

-Laelth

[liberal_at_heart]

39. try posting about education. No one seems to care about education either.

[KoKo]

51. I know. n/t

[RainDog]

54. I think people care about a lot of posts/issues even when they don't comment

Sometimes when I'm here, all I do is read threads b/c I don't want to get caught up in some discussion. I may not have something to say about the issue but I value the expertise others bring.

That's not just about education, but other issues, as well.

So, I encourage people to post about the issues they follow, even if they don't get a lot of response - because, as noted elsewhere, it's the controversy between posters here that often determines replies, etc.

I've filtered out some of the frivolous topics so I don't even see them... the word "Kardashian" for instance. Celebrity threads aren't interesting to me overall, so a lot of them are trashed.

Don't be discouraged. People are also reading about serious issues.

[Kaleva]

75. I tried talking about the benefits of recycling urine.

Not a great deal of interest in that subject.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11592465

[Laelth]

52. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

[loli phabay]

53. snicker, you used exposure in a porn thread.

[Vashta Nerada]

56. Some people want to tell others what they can and cannot view on the internet.

TPP is way more important, IMO.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

57. Links to TPP threads (that have died a quick death)

https://www.google.com/search?q=TPP&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

Thanks RainDog for the suggestion

[RainDog]

67. ...

[orpupilofnature57]

61. Porn is Kung- Fu theatre, TPP is depraved .

[upi402]

62. Oh gawd KICK and REC!!!! +1,000,000,000

This does NOT surprise me. I grieve the loss that the 'New Democrats' have caused ...

[alittlelark]

63. I never reply to porn threads...

They are far down on my list of 'things to work on'.

I have strong opinions - as do MANY - but right now there are bigger things at risk of 'falling off the plate'.

[LanternWaste]

68. On a typical day, I converse much more about work than politics

On a typical day, I converse much more about work and family than politics.

That too is something better than Obama could have hoped for... or do we rationalize a distinction without a difference once the veil is raised and we're forced to realize that social issues and political issues are both predicated on the same foundation?

However, I do understand the desire to "keep score" to find a more secure justification in our judgements of what should, or should not be spoken of, and to what degree-- it certainly allows us a delicious self-validating (though visceral) image of ourselves.

[Kaleva]

73. How many different people have posted in the porn threads?

While there are quite a few posts in those threads, is it pretty much a relative few doing most of the arguing?

[Omaha Steve]

74. DU has a new porn group?

I've had several posts on TPP and it's secrets with not much reaction either.

[RainDog]

77. not yet

but just to let you know - if you don't want to ban porn, you're a libertarian and no liberal has ever supported 1st amendment rights...

funny, but I doubt anyone on DU has something equally stupid to say about the TPP - which is why the other threads are more active.

[dionysus]

78. oh yes, the evil Obama and Clinton are clouding our minds with porn threads.

one of the stupidest OPs I have ever seen on DU, in twelve years...

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

79. The OP

stupidity ---- your head (same plane)

[arely staircase]

82. As George Carlin once said

Like a guy who tells you the King of Sweden is using his dick as a radio transmitter to send anti-semitic lesbian meatloaf recipes to Soupy Sales and Marvin Hamlisch.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

83. Practically everyone on DU agrees about the TPP being a bad thing.

That doesn't leave much point to discussion.

By contrast, porn is one of the relatively few subjects where DU is more than an echo chamber.

[ismnotwasm]

84. Trash

I forget how many now.

[Chan790]

85. It's much harder for people to get intellectually worked-up over TPP/TPIP...

than it is to get worked up over T&A.

One of these topics is far more gut-level than the other which requires the significant expenditure of intellectual capital to discuss knowledgeably.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

92. Not really...

...the only thing people need to know right now is that the president wants it fast tracked. That can't happen. You don't have to know anything they're discussing secretly.

It's all about TPP being fast tracked.

Pulling back the veil of secrecy will follow.

[Chan790]

93. Well, yes.

I know that. I've been harassing my congresspeople to kill fast-track and to oppose it altogether if it's as bad as rumored.

The problem is when you're discussing it with someone completely unaware of it and supportive of the President, you have to answer questions like "Why shouldn't it be fast-tracked?" (Because we don't know what's in it.) "But I trust the President." (Irrelevant, if it wasn't full of things that they don't want you to know about before it passes...they'd be a lot more transparent about what it says and not trying to ram it through without discussion and review.) Worse if they know what it's rumored or partially-known to contain and want to argue those details...that's hard for most people who haven't read the leaked files and been following the sordid mess.

It does on some level require at least a bit of nebbish knowledge of the whole process to date or why fast-track is never a good idea for multi-party FTAs. Anybody can have an opinion on porn, even if they're poorly informed.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

95. We do know this much about what's in TPP...

Of the 29 chapters in this document, only five cover traditional trade matters! The other chapters amount to a devilish "partnership" for corporate protectionism:

—Food safety. Any of our government's food safety regulations (on pesticide levels, bacterial contamination, fecal exposure, toxic additives, etc.) and food labeling laws (organic, country-of-origin, animal-welfare approved, GMO-free, etc.) that are stricter than "international standards" could be ruled as "illegal trade barriers." Our government would then have to revise our consumer protections to comply with weaker standards.

—Fracking. Our Department of Energy would lose its authority to regulate exports of natural gas to any TPP nation. This would create an explosion of the destructive fracking process across our land, for both foreign and U.S. corporations could export fracked gas from America to member nations without any DOE review of the environmental and economic impacts on local communities -- or on our national interests.

—Jobs. US corporations would get special foreign-investor protections to limit the cost and risk of relocating their factories to low-wage nations that sign onto this agreement. So, an American corporation thinking about moving a factory would know it is guaranteed a sweetheart deal if it moves operations to a TPP nation like Vietnam. This would be an incentive for corporate chieftains to export more of our middle-class jobs.

—Drug prices. Big Pharma would be given more years of monopoly pricing on each of their patents and be empowered to block distribution of cheaper generic drugs. Besides artificially keeping everyone's prices high, this would be a death sentence to many people suffering from cancer, HIV, AIDS, tuberculosis and other treatable diseases in impoverished lands.

—Banksters. Wall Street and the financial giants in other TPP countries would make out like bandits. The deal explicitly prohibits transaction taxes (such as the proposed Robin Hood Tax here) that would shut down speculators who have repeatedly triggered financial crises and economic crashes around the world. It restricts "firewall" reforms that separate consumer banking from risky investment banking. It could roll back reforms that governments adopted to fix the extreme bank-deregulation regimen that caused Wall Street's 2007 crash. And it provides an escape from national rules that would limit the size of "too-big-to-fail" behemoths.

—Internet freedom. Corporations hoping to lock up and monopolize the Internet failed in Congress last year to pass their repressive "Stop Online Piracy Act." However, they've slipped SOPA's most pernicious provisions into TPP. The deal would also transform Internet service providers into a private, Big Brother police force, empowered to monitor our "user activity," arbitrarily take down our content and cut off our access to the Internet. To top that off, consumers could be assessed mandatory fines for something as benign as sending your mom a recipe you got off of a paid site.

http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/corporate-coup-disguise

And we know who the architects are...

Petition: Don't Let the 0.1% Fast Track a Corporate Coup; Stop the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) Secret Negotiations

http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/dont-let-the-01-fast.fb40?r_by=5373960

[RainDog]

97. I think a lot of people see it like NAFTA

...which both sides of the aisle were glad to implement.

[PowerToThePeople]

91. DUfail

We need to do some re-evaluating here. Great. I can live as a homeless, jobless pauper. At least I can still get my pr0n.

[In_The_Wind]

94. Porn attracts attention.

[orpupilofnature57]

96. Good one .