I do not celebrate Christmas

[Th1onein]

I'm either an agnostic or an atheist; haven't decided which yet. But that has nothing to do with my refusal to celebrate Christmas.

I think it's a waste of money, and a waste of time. I spend my money, all year long, taking care of NEEDS that people around me have. There is too much NEED to waste money on frivolous crap. People are going hungry, without lights, or gas, or a roof over their heads, or transportation. I take care of my family, first, and then spread the rest around me; to whomever crosses my path.

Christmas is just another day, as far as I'm concerned.

[lapfog_1]

1. I'm an agnostic

and I love Xmas.

I love all of the pagan traditions... the evergreen tree, the lights, the festive atmosphere, the giving of gifts, especially to those less fortunate.

I simply choose to ignore the Christ in Christmas... because I'm not a Christian, and, in addition, I'm pretty certain that Christ was not born on Dec 25th.

The early Christian church made this up to "appropriate" what was a very popular pagan / Roman holiday.

St. Nick (aka Santa Claus) came much later.

[etherealtruth]

90. You have captured exactly how I feel

I LOVE Christmas

[MineralMan]

2. OK. Thanks for letting us know.

This atheist does celebrate it, in a secular way, of course.

[rock]

3. YAAAY!

Oops!

[RC]

4. As a Pagan Holiday, Christmas has lost its meaning.

As a Christian Holiday, it is a good example of greed run rampant by the Christians that profess to believe in Love, brotherhood and charity.

[Katashi_itto]

5. Awesome! I am glad I know this now!

My life is complete.

Thank you...!

Sob..

[Th1onein]

8. I think that your reply is quite rude. Is there a reason for that?

[Katashi_itto]

12. Wouldnt call it rude just sarcastic. I mean why post

that you don't celebrate xmas or whatever?

It's like saying I hate spoons...really who cares what i like or don't like?

BTW I do hate spoons. I think they are part of plot that involves Bengazi.

[TBF]

15. The Benghazi spoon plot

is not discussed nearly enough. I'm glad you brought that up.

[Katashi_itto]

20. Thanks, yes it's a critical issue of our times

Spoons will be the death of us all.

[ellenfl]

31. no, i think sporks will be the death of us all. eom

[Arugula Latte]

34. There were far more spork deaths under the Bush administration,

but of course the mainstream corporate media never talks about those!

[Th1onein]

16. Why post at all, in that case? Sarcastic/rude, sometimes they are one and the same.

I'm not a fan of people who are rude without cause. I think we see too much of that on the internet, and it's very disturbing to see it on a progressive site like DU.

As for why I posted--I shouldn't have to explain. We are here, a lot of us, talking about Black Friday, shopping, and Christmas. Unless I'm mistaken, I have the right to speak about my own opinions, as well. And, in case you haven't noticed, a lot of people on this thread are sharing their opinions on the topic, too.

[Katashi_itto]

18. Well had you tied it to the crass consumerism that is Xmas

I would had full support. As it was posted it simpy seemed pretensious

I've seen so many posts here that are basically borderline narcissism, one does get skeptical.

[Th1onein]

22. I thought I DID tie it to the mass consumerism.

WHY do we only give to others on one day of the year? During the holidays, we are blasted by the media about the homeless, and the hungry. During the rest of the year, we ignore these people's needs.

Maybe I'm just not good at getting my point across.

[Katashi_itto]

24. Either or thing, I am at work and scanning fast, so it could have been me.

If I was incorrect, my appologies.

[Th1onein]

27. Thanks.

[DeschutesRiver]

196. I think if you had posted "I celebrate Christmas” no one would have objected.

I haven't celebrated this holiday since I was a child. I am not offended in the slightest by people who do celebrate. And find it weird that anyone takes issue with your simple statement. During this time of year, people like us who do not celebrate apparently are expected to not be a buzz kill to those who do. Nuts on that. Glad you posted, because it is nice to know I am not alone in this.

And I guess I am far too liberal to feel that anyone owes me an explanation for why they have different opinions from mine. But that said, you did tie it into consumerism and your post was perfectly clear. And I agree.

[Th1onein]

205. Thank you, DeschutesRiver.

Like I told another poster, though, sometimes I dash something out, thinking I'm starting a discussion, and end up starting a freaking war. Maybe I just don't make myself clear, sometimes. I don't know.

I do think that there are people, especially on the internet, who use their anonymity to take their misery out on others, and many of those have come out of the woodwork on this thread. Many, if not most, of these same people would not dare to treat others, off the internet, the way that they treat them on the internet--a clear mark of the coward and the bully.

Thanks for your post. I'm glad that there are people like you on DU.

[defacto7]

225. I think it's a great post.

I respect you for your commitment and honesty about media hyped consumerism and giving all year long where needed. Christmas is a Christian religious tradition and should stay that way. The rest is just for a buck. Having religious or non-religious seasonal holiday rituals are are good for community and remind us of our relationship to humankind. If it mirrors other religious traditions I don't mind, but the over-commercialism and lack of giving when needed sucks. There is a lot of waste at this time of year for no reasonable purpose but seeking and getting stuff and that is what most kids learn from it unfortunately.

[Th1onein]

226. Thanks, defacto7.

[ann---]

36. Yes, but

it would have been different had you just said you don't celebrate Christmas without adding all that you DO at other times of the year that justifies your choice. It really doesn't matter to me if people celebrate it or not.

I love it because it's a time to give - as little or as much as we can -to make others happy.

[upaloopa]

59. why did you post your OP

My guess you're fishing for just such a reply.
Who cares what you celebrate or don't. You're the one with bad taste here and I am sure you know that.

[Th1onein]

78. I posted for the same reason many here post about such things.

Figure it out.

And bad taste? Your post is the epitome of it.

[Swede Atlanta]

55. I think you are missing the point of the original post......

The poster simply acknowledged that they choose not to celebrate Christmas because it had become nothing more than a symbol of greed, self-indulgence and meaningless consumption.

I share that believe but do "celebrate" Christmas in that I put up an artificial tree I have had for over 10 years and decorate the house with ornaments and other holiday decor I have either received or had for a number of years. It reminds me of my childhood when Christmas actually meant something. We always went to Christmas Eve services and after driving around to look at some of the decorated homes came home and opened a single, small gift. Christmas morning was never overdone. We usually each got one nice (read - larger or more expensive) gift and then a handful of smaller gifts. It was consumerism but it was nowhere near what it is today.

That said I stopped exchanging gifts with my sister and her family about 5 years ago. Neither she nor her husband need anything. I don't need anything and if there is something I feel I really need I will go purchase it. Her children are grown and both married. I never knew what I was buying for them and was always concerned about spending the same amount on both. I hated the shopping and the stress.

So now I give a donation to well-deserved charities in their names at Christmas. During the year I find something small that I think would be truly useful or special to the family. I sometimes keep it until I know they are having a rough time, etc. and share that something special then.

But I take the money I used to spend on gifts and contribute to charities or occasionally "pay forward" or help a senior who is struggling at the grocery store a bit. I feel much better about how I spend my money and the family doesn't miss the contrived gifts that were always purchased simply because our corporate masters tell us we must.

[Th1onein]

76. Thank you.

[warrant46]

248. Thank you !!

What a wonderful post

[Th1onein]

258. Thank you, too, Warren.

I'm glad you took it in the spirit in which it was intended.

[SheilaT]

6. I love Christmas also, the lights the cheeriness.

I only buy presents for those people I really want to buy for, which is a pretty small group. And I often make the presents, so not much money is involved.

[Katashi_itto]

25. Screaming children, drunk store Santas, store elves knife fighting

I love it all.

Xmas is wonderful.



Your are wise beyond your years to only buy for a select few.

[SheilaT]

71. Let's see, somehow I never had screaming kids

at Christmas. Mostly they didn't scream at all because it was clear from the very beginning that was not acceptable behavior.

Only took them to the store Santas once or twice with the oldest, not at all I think with the younger ones. just wasn't into that.

Sort of sorry I missed the store elves knife fighting, but can't have it all, can I?

At 65, I am not really wise beyond my years. Having grown up relatively poor, and then married to a Jewish man who found the whole Christmas thing a bit strange, it was easy not to go overboard buying for others. And since I'm a bit of a craft person, it's easy to make stuff.

There's actually only one person I'm giving something to that I don't don't need to, but want to. And that's the younger half-brother of a great-nephew. I figure I will buy something for each since they are both very young and it seems unnecessarily rude not to give both of them something, since I'm currently gifting that younger generation, the oldest of whom is only five years old.

[Katashi_itto]

73. That actually sounds very nice. I've no family so my xmas is simple. It's just me.

I do the craft stuff. Mainly Steampunk lamps and such.

Something to do for the holidays.

[penultimate]

7. I wouldn't celebrate it either if it wasn't for the people around me celebrating it

I'm not a scrooge about it or anything, it just seems rather blaaaah to me. I don't rain on others parades or get offended/upset when others do it though (unless I'm forced to put Christmas lights... ugh) Although this may change someday when/if my priorities change.

Many do seem to ignore what the supposed real meaning of Christmas though.... TINSEL! WE NEED MORE DAMN TINSEL!

[Th1onein]

10. LOL!

[Shrike47]

156. And glitter! Glitter improves everything at Christmas. Can't go wrong with glitter.

[Th1onein]

217. LOL!

Glitter is good, you're right.

[woodsprite]

228. According to my daughter, glitter is the herpes of craft supplies. n/t

[3catwoman3]

269. I have heard this glitter "joke"before...

...and as someone who works in health care with people afflicted with this nasty virus that causes lifelong misery, I offer my heartfelt suggestion that this frivolous statement be avoided. There is nothing funny about herpes.

[PowerToThePeople]

9. I am agnostic

Christmas time is still a nice time of year. Planning on putting up the lights and outdoor decorations today...

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. Saint Th1onein, everybody! The ten o'clock show is always exactly the same as the eight show

Don't forget to tip your waitstaff. (And make sure to let everyone know that you did!).

[Th1onein]

17. I'm not calling myself a saint. And you know it.

I'm stating an opinion, just as many people here have done, and will do. I don't talk about the good things that I do to impress you or anyone else; I talk about them because they give me joy, and I like to share that. How very sad that you would take it any other way.

[Paladin]

38. Sorry, but your OP features self-congratulatory gift wrapping.

You shouldn't be surprised at some snarky responses. Happy holidays, by the way.

[Th1onein]

43. You can take my OP any way you want to....

but that's not the way that I meant it.

As for the snarky responses, this is a progressive site. We shouldn't be posting shitty, rude, sarcastic responses to each other; that's not who we are supposed to be.

[Paladin]

48. I'll thank you not to impose your definition of "progressive" on the rest of us.

It reminds me way too much of the right-wingers' response to criticism, always along the lines of "Hey, you claim to be progressive/liberal/Democrat, so you're not allowed to make such pointed comments." That's a non-starter with me.....

[Th1onein]

57. Pointed comments are one thing, rude comments are another.

[alcibiades_mystery]

53. What you need for Christmas: the basic capacity for self-reflection and self-awareness

You post an OP basically shitting all over an event that many people love, saying that it is stupid, a waste of time and money, and OH, by the way, you're much a much better person than all those people who only care about stupid, worthless Christmas, ho hum. Morons, amirite??? Then, when people quite rightly roll their eyes at your total self-congratulatory bullshit, you break out the smelling salts, wondering at how people could be so very rude! Oh, my! "It wasn't my intention to call people stupid, uncaring assholes! I just did that by accident!"

Jesus. Buy yourself some basic social awareness for Christmas.

[Th1onein]

63. I'm a much better person than all those people?

Really, your reading comprehension needs some work, alcibiades_mystery.

And, by the way, common courtesy is on the third aisle over.

[laundry_queen]

126. I think that poster hit the nail on the head

it was a manipulative post.

[Th1onein]

136. Nah.

But you believe what you want to believe. You've obviously got one heck of a Christmas spirit thing going there!

[laundry_queen]

183. It's not about believing anything.

You are being manipulative in your posting, that's plain for everyone to see. Has nothing to do with my Christmas spirit, but then that's just another form of twisting and manipulating that you have employed in this thread.

[Th1onein]

207. It very obviously IS about believing something. Since we disagree, I think that's obvious.

People judge others by the way they are themselves. Remember that when you accuse someone of bad behavior.

Oh, and welcome to Ignore.

[laundry_queen]

229. DU must be awfully slow for you these days

Your post was rude, that is a fact that is evidenced by the multitude of posters that responded to your post in the same way I did. Not a belief. You may think you weren't being rude, although I suspect you knew exactly what you were doing, but you were. And that's not a matter of belief. And you are still being manipulative in the way you tried to turn it around on me instead of maybe indulging in a little self-reflection on how your post may have appeared to others, which is more likely if rudeness or attention-getting indeed wasn't your primary goal.

But you go ahead and continue putting everyone on DU on ignore, because the problem cannot be you, it must be the 300 other people.

[JTFrog]

275. Well the abortion threads had died down....

So it was time to do a few cartwheels through GD.

[alcibiades_mystery]

224. Yeah sure

So many people "misunderstood" your self-serving bullshit.

Maybe you're just a really shitty writer.

[Th1onein]

227. Good grief, what are you so ANGRY about?

Why the personal attack?

[pecwae]

232. You know

your reply could be tweaked just a bit for use in many circumstances around here. It's close to perfect.

[msanthrope]

254. I want to make this post some eggnog, and buy it a gift. nt

[JTFrog]

271. .

[tammywammy]

13. Okay. This agnostic celebrates it.

Spending time with family. I like giving presents. My mom makes the best gumbo and potato salad. Good times.

I can take care of needs all year and still enjoy Christmas. It's what you make of it.

[TBF]

14. We celebrate - our family

is a mix of religious and not-so-religious. I actually don't mind going to church because at least they pretend to be nice there and candles are pretty.

Anyway, we decorate and get gifts for the kids. I also like to send cards so I can get photo cards in return from folks I don't get to see very often.

But I can totally appreciate you not liking the holiday - personally I don't care for Thanksgiving (celebrating wiping out the indigenous folks w/a big feast - nice!).

[Adam-Bomb]

19. I like Christmas more now as a Grandparent

but it's NOT my favorite holiday; Thanksgiving is.

[nolabear]

21. I think that's so sad. I don't equate Christmas with any of those things.

Sounds like you do good things all year and that's good. But not to be moved by the good things that Christmas brings and to in fact pick the negative ideas and identify the season with those is a real loss, imo.

I'm not a believer either, but I am deeply moved by the idea that people deliberately reach out to one another, that families and friends go to great lengths to be together and acknowledge their bonds and the spirit of generosity and caring. It gets perverted sometimes but that's not Christmas, it's a symptom of the world's distance from its spirit, I think. We get competitive and anxious, and think we have to prove something. And Lord knows, corporate interests push that like mad. But again, that's not Christmas and I ignore that part as much as I can.

I love the lights and trees, the sense of otherworldliness, of elves and angels and snow that's somehow more magical than on any other day. I love the music, from old to new, from sacred (to someone) to silly. I love parties, and the best ones are just "Hey, let's celebrate!" ones that open up doors and conversations. I even love the idea that someone destined to be an enlightened soul was born and the world knew, before it forgot, that that soul was a precious possibility in us all. Christmas, to me, is one big excuse to be a little crazy and a little more human, in the best way. It gets us through the dark days and reminds us that we're still here, still able, still willing.

But that's just me. I had some hard Christmases growing up, and I don't intend to have any more, no matter what the circumstance.

[Th1onein]

26. I understand. I wish I could see it that way, too, but I don't.

Maybe I'm jaded.

[nolabear]

49. Not too jaded. Your answer says that.

[Th1onein]

68. You are absolutely right.

"....I am deeply moved by the idea that people deliberately reach out to one another, that families and friends go to great lengths to be together and acknowledge their bonds and the spirit of generosity and caring. It gets perverted sometimes but that's not Christmas, it's a symptom of the world's distance from its spirit, I think. We get competitive and anxious, and think we have to prove something. And Lord knows, corporate interests push that like mad. But again, that's not Christmas and I ignore that part as much as I can."

I WISH Christmas could mean that to me. But it doesn't anymore, and quite honestly, since I lost my son, it never will again. I don't want to be around those "intact" families. I see all of those Christmases past, when we were lucky to have a chicken on the table, much less a turkey, and I think about all of those food stamp mothers who will be working on Thanksgiving, and working on Christmas, just to keep a roof over their kids' heads, or gas in the car. I can't do anything about me, or those Christmases past, that were lost to poverty and illness, but I can do something about someone else's lives, maybe.

And, no, I'm not trying to rain on anyone else's Christmas. Or trying to lord it over anyone else. Or judge them. This is just how I look at the holiday, and yes, it's colored by my experiences. So what?

[nolabear]

85. I'm sorry for that terrible loss. And I know you aren't lording. But I'm confused.

Two responses from you that sound very different! I'm not in any way challenging you and have no idea how to respond to "So what?" You started a thread on how you see Christmas and I said it was sad (even more so given the loss of your child) and said how I see it.

My worst Christmas was when I was a kid and my mother was allowed to stay out of hospital through the holiday because the adults knew that when she went in she wouldn't come out again. It was frightening and sad and strange. I've never been starving but I've been crazy poor and orphaned and sad. There was a time when I learned to make a little Christmas tree and ornaments out of folded paper because otherwise there would have been nothing. I still make origami ornaments because I learned to love that. So I have a lot of empathy and fondness for anyone who tries to help others who are in pain, both during the Christmas season and at other times too. But I think if you can enjoy what good there is in holidays it makes life better, and I think the pain in our lives makes it important.

[Th1onein]

95. What two responses sound very different?

They are all the same, and very consistent, at least to me.

You know, I think I come at this holiday as a food stamp mother. I can't forget that poverty; or that others are suffering it. Maybe that colors all of my experiences of this holiday. Maybe if my family was "intact," I would feel very differently. But I'm sure that there are other people out there who have lost loved ones who find the celebration to have meaning. I don't know. I'm not them, and this is how I look at it.

I am so sorry that you suffered such a loss, but I'm happy that you seem to have come through that with a healthy sense of joy. Good for you.

[nolabear]

123. Doesn't matter re the responses. I hope you find your joy in the best places for you.

Handsfull!

[Th1onein]

133. Same to you, nolabear.

As for the responses, it's quite ironic, isn't it, that in an OP about NOT celebrating Christmas, some of those who are FOR celebrating the holiday are so rude. They must have missed the part about brotherly love, I guess.

[nolabear]

135. Well, that's all right too. Tomorrow might be different, long as we keep working together.

[Th1onein]

137. Absolutely. Solidarity.

[HappyMe]

23. I celebrate Christmas,

and give time, money and non-perishable to the food bank.

People can do both, you know.

[840high]

190. Of course they can do

both. I celebrate Xmas with joy.

[ileus]

28. How long before someone posts the Santa lie makes me not trust people.

I always enjoy those....

[Th1onein]

40. What is the Santa lie?

[pipoman]

160. LOL

[ProdigalJunkMail]

29. good for you... I think

[Decaffeinated]

30. Yes yes...

Christopher Columbus was a son of a bitch and I'll bet you don't watch tv either.

Thanks for informing the world.

[OKNancy]

32. OK, now this is funny. n/t

[Th1onein]

35. Thanks for the rude post.

Good grief.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

41. I'm guessing

That when you declare a thing that many enjoy and look forward to as, "a waste of money, and a waste of time" and then spoke in morally superior tones about providing for people who are less well-off many of your respondents probably felt you yourself were being rude. Perhaps that was not your intent but there is no denying you diminished their family observances and exalted your own actions above them. That tends to get folks' dander up.

[Th1onein]

44. I said nothing about family observances.

I'm talking about giving, and why we only see fit to recognize others' needs, predominantly, at this time of the year.

You will notice in the OP, the term "I." That means I'm not talking about anyone else, but myself. I'm not judging anyone else; I'm stating my reasons for not celebrating the holiday.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

50. Christmas = family observance

You may have said "I" but the thing you declared a waste of time and money was a thing cherished by those beyond yourself.

People are the sum of the things they value. Consider how we judge a man who loves Joy over a man who loves cruelty or greed. When you devalued what people love you devalued the people who love that thing. If it were a bad thing you had devalued that would have exonerated your OP, but you struck at something that -- near as I can tell -- is a good thing.

[Th1onein]

61. Christmas equals family observance? ONLY?

I doubt that. I also doubt your judgement that I devalued that part of this holiday.

What I devalued was the consumerism of this holiday. At least, that's what I was trying to impart. And, the idea that this time of the year is THE predominant time to care for others, and their needs.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

65. How would you delineate between succumbing to consumerism and genuine gift-giving?

[Th1onein]

70. I don't know how to answer that question.

It's just really difficult for me to buy an art and craft set (this is really a bad example, by the way, because sometimes, in fact often, children need this kind of gift for their development) when I see that someone else needs a blanket. When you go out and buy someone a diamond ring, and you know someone else doesn't have a bed to sleep on, it's just vanity. Wasteful.

[riderinthestorm]

92. So you have also set yourself up as judge and arbiter of our gift giving?

What the hell?!

So you will shit all over every one else's family traditions and celebrations AND make sure we all know how much better you are than the rest of us.

And also reserve the right to decide if one's gifts are valid or not?

Whew...

[ScreamingMeemie]

101. ... And then put you on *gasp* ignore

for not applauding

[riderinthestorm]

152. I'm pretty sure I'm person #1 on Th1onein's ignore list.

A near certainty during the abortion debates when our conversation was the first time she called women who'd had abortions "murderers".

Now she says they've just committed "homicides". And the Admins let that go....

The1onein and I go waaayyy back.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

154. Can I be in y'all's club? Apparently I've earned my way onto ignore. n/t

[riderinthestorm]

168. Isn't this fun? Its almost 5 here in IL and I'm about to pour a glass of wine

I have no idea what Screaming Meemie is drinking but welcome to the party!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

178. Oh, I dunno. If I start drinking this early Lover Boy is going to expect something raunchy tonight.

Make mine a double.

[PeaceNikki]

186. i was on FORCED ignore with her over that mess.

Also, Skinner says he never cleared "homocides". But that was in Meta which is gone now.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

148. Okay, now you've offended me too.

I came into this thread in an effort to dial back the emotional response your OP generated.

Now everything is subject to judgmentalism, including the choice of a craft set. Fine; lots of kids could use a craft set to help their development. So-effing-what! Play IS development and that doesn't make it any less of a gift. The children who need an extra assist also probably enjoy the fact people care enough to give them gifts that improve their lot in life.

And now you're going to lecture us on how we spend on frivolous things when needs go unfulfilled. Guess what. When I bought the arts and crafts set there were people who manufactured it, shipped it, stocked it, retailed it, acted as my cashier. I filled up my car on the way. I drove on roads. The lights were on in the store. I bought lunch, which was another whole supply chain. I paid taxes when I was at the craft store, the gas station and the restaurant. Everyone who derives income from my purchase will also pay taxes. Those taxes provided the food stamps you were on. That one, silly craft set made me come in contact with several dozen lives, none of whom have to sleep without a bed because I chose to brighten a child's life.

And yet you're going to lecture me as if I'm frivolous and uncaring because several dozen people earned a paycheck off of me rather than me contributing to some bed-buying charity. I suppose if I taught a man to fish you'd be carping at me for also buying him a rod and reel for the holidays. Heaven forfend I put a pretty bow on it, that'd be commercialism!

Whatever.

Don't have a Merry Christmas. I'm sure you want it that way.

[Th1onein]

150. You are CHOOSING to take offense.

Based on the flimsiest of rationales.

I'm done with you.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

153. You're like Sheldon Cooper from Big Bang Theory

You're so certain of your superiority you're oblivious to the fact you offend people when you look down your nose at them even when they tell you directly that you're being rude and insulting.

I'm done with you.

Looking at the roster thus far, I'm in good -- nay, BETTER -- company.

[Th1onein]

159. Seems to me that YOU'RE the one who is so certain of YOUR superiority.

You asked me a question, I answered it. It's not what YOU would do, and I didn't say that it SHOULD be, but you CHOSE to take it that way, and you CHOSE to take offense at it.

Look at the tone of your speech: "You're like Sheldon Cooper." "...you look down your nose..." It's insulting, but YOU'RE the one who is insulted? YOU'RE the one who is offended? Are you joking?

What do you expect me to say? I've battered my head against this brick wall long enough. There comes a point, in any conversation, when the two heads are just NOT going to meet anywhere. I think we've reached that point.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

161. Okay, you're NOT like Sheldon Cooper.

He's more of a comedic-funny than a tragic-funny.

[Th1onein]

163. Wow. More of the same insults.

You've made my point. Thank you.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

164. Calling something tragic isn't really an insult. It's more an expression of pity.

[Th1onein]

165. You know better than that.

And so do I.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

33. "People are going hungry, without lights, or gas, or a roof over their heads, or transportation"

Admitted but does that mean we are wrong to seek joy until all suffering has ceased? We're only human. We can only do so much and our walking around in sackcloth and ashes accomplishes nothing except present a marketing opportunity for the manufacturers and retailers of sackcloth.

Consider also: happiness, family, community and giving are also needs. Perhaps not on the same scale as food, shelter or clothing but who wants to be the monkey raised with nothing more than a wire framed "mother."

[Th1onein]

39. I don't think this precludes seeking joy.

It bothers me that we only encourage giving to each other at one time of the year; that our media focuses on the needs of the homeless and the hungry only at this time of the year.

But I do understand where you're coming from.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

45. I hate getting practical stuff for Christmas.

A pox upon the Givers of Socks. There are 364 other days available for buying socks. Few are the days we can enjoy frivolity in common. We make those holidays.

If a young girl can get an arts and craft set or baby doll to go with the 5-year old can of lima beans from the food pantry then God bless the soul that scrounged a few lint balls deeper into their own pocket to giver her that gift. How much richer is everyone in the transaction when we can move beyond simple sustenance seek to actually impart a smile and an occasion to love at our own expense.

That, my friend, is what you should celebrate and why the lights and atmosphere should make you smile.

[nolabear]

54. A Unicorn after my own heart.

Oh, I do give some practical things, especially when I know someone's been neglecting a need. But one of the great things about giving gifts is noticing who the person is, what they're like, what would tickle them. I love getting that kind of thing, too. Monetary value means a lot less than that someone noticed, really noticed something about me and took the trouble to let me know.

[Th1onein]

56. I understand what you are saying...

But what I see is mass consumption of frivolities, for the few, while the many go without necessities. This, in what is supposed to be the land of opportunity, the richest country in the world, blah, blah, blah.

Maybe I'm a Scrooge. Maybe it's the food stamp cuts that just took effect. Maybe it's the fact that I used to be a food stamp mother. Give me a car that I don't have to worry about breaking down every trip to work; give me a month's rent so I can have just a little bit of security. Pay the light bill.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be holier than thou. Truly, I'm not. I just don't think that we have a right to celebrate when things are such a mess for so many.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

64. When I entered this thread I asked

if we were allowed to have Joy even when others were still in need. You assured your readers that you had no intention of excluding Joy while misery yet remained. Now you have written --

I just don't think that we have a right to celebrate when things are such a mess for so many.

I am confused by these seemingly contradictory statements and I will assert yet again that such a mindset is untenable. Like the monkey in the photo I posted we need more than mere sustenance and the giving of gifts enriches everyone in the transaction.

[Th1onein]

72. Let me rephrase for you, although I think I made myself clear in another post.

You can celebrate anything you like; there's nothing wrong with that. It's the spending that bothers me. It's wasteful to buy yourself a diamond ring when you know someone else doesn't have a bed to sleep on.

[Pathwalker]

69. But, but...my son is begging me to buy him socks. His girlfriend is

begging me to buy him sock, his brother and his father are also begging me to buy this son some damn socks. Why? Because he steals their socks. I resisted, until I caught him wearing MY socks. He's getting (more) socks this holiday.

[Throd]

37. I'm an atheist. I like Christmas. You go and enjoy December 25th.

[titaniumsalute]

42. Good for you

I love Christmas.

[Vashta Nerada]

46. Good for you.

[nyquil_man]

47. I like the lights.

Then again, sometimes I go walking at night just to watch traffic lights.

[GladRagDahl]

51. bah

humbug

[CrispyQ]

52. A friend of mine posted this on FB:

If you spend more time shopping for gifts for people, than the time you will actually spend with those people, then you've missed the whole point.

I used to tell my mother, "Just give me a gift card to a book store - nothing would make me happier!" "Oh, that's no fun!" she said. What she meant was, that's no fun for her to shop for. But guess what she always liked to receive? Gift cards!

[Big Blue Marble]

58. I love celebrating the Christmas season.

it is truly one of my favorite times of the year. It is more than
a day, it part of the cycle of the year, the return of solar light.
Our celebration is totally gloriously secular, bringing in the pagan elements
of our ancestors.

It is about family, friends, traditions of food and drink. It is about
retrieving the decades old decorations from the basement and remembering
times and family members who are no longer with us. It is about music.
It is just simply a great big party and a lot of fun.

[DesertFlower]

60. i agree. nt

[Tikki]

62. You know in another life, I wouldn't either..and for the exact same reasons you have stated..

Hypocritical or not…
I signed on years ago to be a grandmother so I do participate, mostly, because
of the cuties.

If or when I am ever away from them, I will not celebrate.
Our son has the tree and the decorations.
The Mr. and I put a generic wreath on the door.

The Holiday is just too commercial and desperate for my taste.


Tikki

[ScreamingMeemie]

66. The Daily lecture series...

brought to us by the letter P for pompous.

I celebrate and I also care for those around me. You can do both.

[Th1onein]

74. Unbelievable. Are you really calling me pompous?

[ScreamingMeemie]

75. I find it rather believable. The post is pompous and unnecessary.

I think these responses are exactly what you were looking for. I wish you a joyous and fulfilled holiday season.

[Th1onein]

79. The post is far from pompous.

I'm not sure what you are talking about when you say, "I think these responses are exactly what you were looking for." Obviously, they are not.

If you don't like my posts, please, in the future, don't bother to comment on them.

[ScreamingMeemie]

81. I think I will reserve the right to post my opinion.

If you don't like my responses, please, in the future, don't bother to post OPs like this one. See how silly that sounds?

[PeaceNikki]

83. I think you nailed it.

[Th1onein]

96. Wow! See how much we agree? I posted MY opinion about Christmas and you posted yours about me!

And, by the way, I will post any OP I choose to post!

Say hello to Ignore! See how that works?

[ScreamingMeemie]

97. And you got all upset, while I did not. :)

I am sure I will be in good company on your ignore list. lol

[PeaceNikki]

99. You are!!

Been on it for years!!

[ScreamingMeemie]

102. At least we won't be fighting over what

game to watch on Sundays!

[PeaceNikki]

104. How about NO game?

Actually, Aaron better be back next week, I'll be freezing my ass off at that game!

[ScreamingMeemie]

109. It was hell in this house yesterday, with gloating BabyG.

I will send warm thoughts!

[PeaceNikki]

110. Aww, I'm sure.

Thanks, I'll need them, it's a night game.

[madinmaryland]

141. Heh! At least America's Team won yesterday!!

[REP]

125. You are too kind.

I rather doubt she is capable of either.

[backscatter712]

67. I'm an atheist, and I celebrate Christmas.

It's a good excuse to take time off from work or school, get together with friends and family, get drunk and be merry.

I don't need a good reason.

[Iggo]

77. Good for you!

[PeaceNikki]

80. Neat!

[LeftyMom]

82. Yet you support policies that will only worsen that poverty, especially for women and children.

[PeaceNikki]

84. touche.

[LeftyMom]

87. You'd think an anti-choicer would love a holiday about a homeless, pregnant teenager

who married young and never had that icky, icky sex.

[PeaceNikki]

89. Well, she's nothing if not a walking contradiction.

[Th1onein]

86. Nope, I don't.

But thanks for trying to hijack the thread.

[LeftyMom]

88. Putting your smug pronouncement in context isn't hijacking your thread.

This is hijacking your thread:

[Th1onein]

98. There's nothing smug about it. And it wasn't a "pronouncement."

But I'm glad to see that at least you are admitting to trying to hijack the thread.

[Dr. Strange]

257. I do not celebrate Rick Astley.

[sorefeet]

91. I understand, it has been commercialized,

the real meaning is lost on materialism. Just what Jesus preaches against. People spend money they don't have, or go in dept because they don't have the money. Why? I know the Walton family loves Christmas.

[Android3.14]

93. That's one less person on my list

Thank you.

[RiffRandell]

94. Wow, you're cool. nt

[billh58]

100. Well, isn't that

precious...

[REP]

103. I don't Christmas with you.

[RiffRandell]

111. Ha! nt

[ScreamingMeemie]

114. I LOL'd

Thanks REP!

[PeaceNikki]

116. lolz

[pintobean]

157. Seven years later

and it's still a knee slapper.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5330132

[Phentex]

239. I am so glad you found this!...

There was another thread recently that reminded me of this one. I remembered the name of the poster but I couldn't find the thread. Now it's bookmarked!

Seems like every year at this time we get a similar thread. Maybe I'll start one next year just for kicks!

[Tanuki]

247. That is too funny! I somehow managed to miss that classic thread

the first time around. Thanks!

[3catwoman3]

270. Being rather new to DU...

... I was not here 7 yrs ago, so missed that strange exchange. Weird, to say the least.

Thanks for the retrospective.

[Android3.14]

105. The trouble here is your choice in things to disbelieve

Perhaps you would have a better day if you declined to believe in rude comments.
Besides, Th1hypocritein, your OP is rude from the start.
After all, people who celebrate Christmas are...what did you imply? Money wasters, time wasters, ones who ignore those in NEED (note the caps, very original), persons who cause hunger, darkness, cold and homelessness (not to mention unwilling to provide transportation); and who can forget all those Christmas celebrating people who decline to take care of their family.
I have to tell you, there's rude (such as me being a little rude pointing out your snot-nosed superior toned fuck-the-rest-of-you-i'm-going-home thoughtless OP), and then there is the utter gall of some whining passive aggressive who thinks it is appropriate to insult everyone with his or her original posting.
Tell you what, how about this Christmas you give us all a gift by keeping your insults to yourself.

[Iggo]

108. Bam!

[Th1onein]

119. Yeah, buddy, cheer that rude crap on!

I see a true Christmas spirit emerging in you!

Wow.

[Iggo]

122. I ain't yer buddy, pal.

[Th1onein]

129. Enjoy your stay on my Ignore list, BUDDY.

[Iggo]

132. Win!

[ScreamingMeemie]

142. It's great group of people we've got all up in here on this ignore list...

Glad to have you!

[Iggo]

143. Glad to be here!

[Hekate]

199. Zowie. There's so many people on Ignore and I haven't received my invite!!!!!

Yet. I await my personally delivered announcement with bated breath.

[REP]

124. That post wasn't cheering for your OP

Which was the "rude crap," as you so eloquently put it.

[Th1onein]

112. I didn't imply anything. But your post is extremely rude.

"Snot-nosed superior toned fuck-the-rest-of-you-I'm going-home thoughtless OP"? Are you serious?

I gotta hand it to you, Android3.14, you topped any "implied" insult found in my OP. But that was the point of your reply, right?

[BainsBane]

106. For me Christmas is about family

It's a time to spend with family and share your appreciation for one another. We exchange small gifts. We have never been a family to spend a great deal on Christmas. People give what they can. Some make gifts, as I myself have done many times. I've made homemade marshmallows, truffles, handmade jewelry, sets of greeting cards. My mother knits. My cousin makes soap and bath products. My niece and nephew made throws for people one year. Others spend $20-25. Even those in the family with the highest incomes don't spend more than about $50 on a gift.

Christmas is what you want to make of it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

113. I want to be BFFs with your cousin.

I am a sucker for homemade soap!

[BainsBane]

115. She sells it

If you're interested, I can give you the link.

[ScreamingMeemie]

118. Yes! Please!

[Th1onein]

120. It is what you make of it.

I choose to ignore it. That's about the best I can make of it.

[aikoaiko]

107. So you're like a charitable Scrooge instead of the capitalist Scrooge of Dickens.

As an atheist I still have fun with the frivolity of Christmas.

[Th1onein]

117. Maybe.

When I was a single mom, Christmas was a burden, an added one, over the poverty we were already experiencing. There were seven kids in the family I grew up in, and we never got close until some of us started dying, so there wasn't that kind of family thing for us. We were just out there, by ourselves.

Maybe this year is worse for my outlook because of all of the homes that have been lost. Don't even get me started on the food stamps cuts that have just hit the poor. I think I just identify more than most, with those who are living in poverty.

Please don't start with the "you're looking down at others who celebrate" crap. I'm not. This experience of Christmas is colored, for me, by my experiences, as all of our experiences are colored. I think it's just worse this year, because everything is worse for so many.

[Tikki]

128. I am totally with you in thoughts, sorry you got attacked…so much spirit, eh….some say.

I hope peace surrounds you…

That everyone can agree on…


Tikki

[Th1onein]

134. Thanks, Tikki.

Sometimes, I'm not good at putting my words into thoughts. Just dash things off and don't think about how some might take it. But there's really no sense in acting as some of these posters have. And THEY are the ones who are supposedly pro-Christmas!

[RBInMaine]

121. I'm an atheist and celebrate the HOLIDAY SEASON. Many of us do. It is about generosity, love, light,

joy, family, etc. It is ok to give gifts, have a tree, etc. I don't go to church nor do I celebrate the birth of Christ stuff, but the other parts are fine. Much like the winter solstice celebrations which predated Christianity. You can celebrate the other good things of the season. You don't have to go to church to do that.

[uppityperson]

127. There is no one Right Way for any holiday or non-holiday. Best wishes to you and yours.

[Common Sense Party]

130. I don't celebrate Hanukkah or Kwanzaa or Ramadan.

No biggie.

To each his own.

I celebrate Christmas because I believe in Christ. As the distinguished philosopher Bobby Brown once said, It's my prerogative.

[BainsBane]

139. Now you're really asking for it.

Prepare for incoming.

[Common Sense Party]

144. Incoming what? Indifference?

If anyone finds something with which to take offense in what I wrote, THEY have a problem.

[WillowTree]

131. Great! I respect your point of view. No criticism.

I, on the other hand, do celebrate Christmas, both secularly and religiously. Do you afford me the same courtesies? If so, we're cool!

[Th1onein]

140. Of course, I afford you the same courtesies.

I can't expect you to have respect for my beliefs if I have no respect for yours.

[DrewFlorida]

138. I do exactly the same thing!

I see no reason to buy STUFF for people simply because of a date on a calender, instead I buy what people want / need, when they want / need it. I hate to waste money guessing what someone might want, or making them wait until long after the time when they needed it. So I spend money when I see the biggest need or the best timing. I help people in need all year long, as I see their need and can afford to help them. Last month a friend of a friend was waiting for her food stamps to arrive, apparently there was a 5 to 6 week waiting period for her application to be processed, so I gave her $50/week until they arrived, it didn't fill all of her needs but was what I could afford at the time. I get much more fulfillment knowing my efforts are what is needed, when it is needed, rather than just an afterthought on December 25th.

[Th1onein]

149. My daughter has a family living in her living room right now.

They are getting food stamps, but with a baby, they don't last long. Especially in the state where they live, which is very expensive for food. My daughter is supplementing their food budget, and it is rough for all of them now. On top of that, their food stamps were cut this month.

I have a friend from long years past who just got out of the AF, and who is almost destitute now. I cut him a check every week, like he's an employee. I just hope I can squeeze out enough so that he won't lose his home.

Things are rough on a lot of people right now. Christmas is going to be an afterthought for many, and for years to come, I'm afraid.

[DrewFlorida]

194. As long as we have companies like Wal-Mart and McDonalds, things will be tough......

for lots of good people. When I see good people struggling just to have food on their table and a roof over their head, it makes me angry at the arrogant assholes who walk around telling those in need to get a job. We need to secure a majority in Congress and the Senate to get things turned around, that's not going to be easy.
Keep up the good work, helping those who need!

[Th1onein]

214. I think more true progressives need to run for office.

Somehow, we need to harness the power of the internet, and fund our own candidates. I'm sick of the corporatists who call themselves Democrats.

[jcboon]

145. I love Christmas

I'm a Christian and I go to church on Christmas Eve. The celebration is all about spreading joy both spiritual and tangible. I like Christmas presents--I want a fuzzy sweater and some really good coffee. I will probably give sweaters and coffee this year as well.
I try to help people with needs all year 'round but needs are often social and spiritual.
Christmas is an excellent time to entertain people who have nothing else in their lives but your friendship. I like to invite old ladies with family far away, single people too broke to travel, people whom society often ignores and give them their once a year drink and some food and fellowship.
People do need food and money and work and sometimes during the year I run out of energy trying.
Christmas and church serve as a filling station, as it were, when I run out of goodwill gas.

[Nye Bevan]

147. Maybe Christmas, perhaps, doesn't come from a store.

Maybe Christmas, perhaps, means a little bit more.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

151. Listen to your doctor.

I find this mentality intriguing. They complain about the commercialism but refuse to but refuse to reinforce the deeper meanings, instead, insisting that those who do keep Christmas -- even for the right reasons -- be put on notice that it is a waste of time and money.

"But go ahead and do it, if that's what you do," we're told with a condescending pat on the head -- if we're lucky.

Merry Christmas to you (for all the reasons, both right and frivolous).

[Th1onein]

155. Absolutely, Nye Bevan.

I read somewhere that most homeless people are homeless only for about three months. One day out of the year, or even just the "Holiday Season" doesn't quite cover that.

[MicaelS]

158. So if you got the day off as a paid holiday from your job...

Are you going to turn it down by saying "I do not celebrate Christmas"?

[Th1onein]

162. If I worked at a place that was open for Christmas, I would take someone's place who wanted to be

home for the holiday. As it is, I own my own business, and everyone is off for the holidays and then some. They don't HAVE to take the day(s) off, but everyone always does, and that's fine with me.

[MicaelS]

198. The you are a considerate person. Thank you. n/t

[Fla_Democrat]

166. Information that would have been helpful BEFORE I went shopping today

Now I will have to scratch you off my list, and return what I bought you for Christmas.

[Th1onein]

170. I'm sure you know that I am heartbroken.

[pipoman]

167. Well I gess you told them

how the cow ate the cabbage, eh?

Self aggrandizing is usually met with curt responses...just something for your Christmas sock there...

[Th1onein]

169. I wasn't trying to be self-aggrandizing.

But you take it whatever way you want to take it. You're going to, no matter what I say. Now, there's something for your Christmas stocking! Enjoy it in the true spirit of Christmas, which I can tell, from your post, you are so familiar with.

[pipoman]

203. I read most of the thread..

I can go there with you..to a point..is Christmas over commercialized? Obviously. It is what one makes of it. It is important to people. It is important to most of the people you know. So you aren't a believer..so what? Take the time to love your family...it is important to them most likely..I work in a Continuing Care Retirement Community, it is important to nearly all residents in independent living or in healthcare, the people who are without family and/or friends on major holidays are usually sad..be festive for others? Are you festive ever? If not, maybe you are concentrating so much on giving to others that you have forgotten to give to/of yourself? I don't know you, but it is sad when a person can't find joy during a joyous season.

[Th1onein]

213. I think that there are a lot of people who just GET THROUGH Christmas.

For one reason or another. And of course that is sad, but it is what it is, and you do with that what you can.

There was a mother on here, just yesterday, who posted that she buried her son the day before. I can't say for a certainty, but I suspect that Christmas will never be the same again for her. The veil has come down, and nothing can raise it again.

I choose not to celebrate Christmas because it is too painful. Instead, I work hard all year long to change people's lives for the better, piece by piece. Maybe some envy in there, too; I don't know, but the more I see of Black Fridays, the commercialization, the consumption for consumption purposes only, the backbreaking debt people get themselves into, the more determined I become to treat Christmas as if it were just any other day.

[JI7]

172. have you ever read Truman Capote's "A Christmas Memory"

to me this is how i view christmas. it's not about spending on crap. one can make what they want of it. i mostly enjoy the colder weather , the food, etc.

i like christmas trees and other decorations also as long as it's not overdone . but i like the cozy feeling.

and it's not just christmas but many others celebrate things around this time. Jews, Muslims, Hindus etc . so it's just an overall festive season.

also i am an atheist so i personally don't experience it in a religious way.

and there are many people who do things for those who are in need around this time of the year.

[Th1onein]

173. Never read it.

[JI7]

175. it's a short story and available free online

doesn't take much time at all but a very enjoyable read.

[joeglow3]

176. My Christmas gift to you

Is letting you sit waaaaaay up there on your horse telling us how much than all is you are. However, please don't insult us pretend like that was not your goal all along. If you needed your ego stroked, just let people know you need it.

[Th1onein]

177. And my gift to you, joeglow?

Is to welcome you to Ignore. Have a nice time there.

[joeglow3]

188. Sounds like I am in GREAT company

However, your need to announce every time you add someone speaks volumes to your need for attention.

[Hippo_Tron]

179. There's a lot of different ways to "celebrate" Christmas

Growing up Jewish, we tended to do the traditional Jewish Chinese food and a movie on Christmas. That's certainly celebrating, in my book.

[Th1onein]

180. Jewish Chinese food? I didn't know there was such a thing?

Where did you grow up at? And what is Jewish Chinese food?

[Hippo_Tron]

181. There's no Jewish Chinese food

It's just common (albeit stereotypical) for Jews to go out for Chinese food on Christmas.

[Th1onein]

184. Oh. Interesting.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

185. A wonderful -- and incidentally, Jewish -- classmate from college once told me

An elderly Jewish gentleman and an elderly Chinese gentleman were once sitting on a park together as they often did on sunny afternoons when the Chinese gentleman looked over.

"If I understand correctly," the Chinese gentleman started, "the Jewish people have a long and rich history going back 5,000 years."

"Yes," the Jewish gentleman nodded. "This is true."

"And the Chinese people have a long and rich history going back 4,000 years," the Chinese gentleman continued.

"I have heard this," the Jewish man said, nodding to his friend.

The Chinese gentleman sat and pondered for a moment before turning back to his friend.

"So, where did your people eat for the first 1,000 years?"

[roody]

182. Makes sense. Besides every day is a

holy day. I give year round.

[MerryBlooms]

187. I'm sorry for your loss.

[Th1onein]

215. Thank you, MerryBlooms.

[Sheldon Cooper]

189. lol

Ridiculous.

[treestar]

191. Don't tell the right wing!

They will see the War on Christmas having a victory!

[Hekate]

192. Bah! Humbug! Thanks for spreading your wealth around, but a little cheer would also go a long way.

Just sayin'

[Boom Sound 416]

193. My son is watching the grinch for the first time

And it's great

On another note, you had to expect a certain amount of the responses your getting. It can't be a surprise.

[Th1onein]

200. I expect that miserable people will act miserably, especially when they are anonymous.

And, as usual, it's the same people who I've seen acting miserably towards others on this forum, in other threads. That's just how some people are.

[Boom Sound 416]

206. Sounds like the motivation for this thread

[Th1onein]

208. That's highly doubtful.

I think you know that.

[Boom Sound 416]

216. Only you can know that

Hope you enjoyed the last 12 hours

[Th1onein]

218. I hope you did, too.

[NaturalHigh]

195. Okay, well thanks for letting us know.

[Packerowner740]

197. Christmas is not about taking care of needs.

That is your choice to not celebrate.

[Th1onein]

201. Of course it is.

It is both things. And other things, as well.

[FloridaJudy]

202. Almost every culture has a celebration about that time

It makes sense, at least in areas with distinct seasons. The hard work of harvesting and bringing in the animals is finished, so there's more leisure. The weather hasn't yet gotten so harsh as to make travel impossible. Everyone's about as healthy as they're going to get (before disease and malnutrition start picking them off), the animals are still fat, and the veggies are relatively fresh. Why not visit friends and family and have a feast? Also, even though the worst of winter is yet to come, the days start getting longer after the solstice, which gives people hope of spring, not a small thing when you haven't yet figured out how the solar system works, and the gods are known to be fickle.

Of course Christmas has been co-opted by Capitalism. Everything's been co-opted by Capitalism. Doesn't mean those things are necessarily bad.

Some people have dreadful memories of Christmas, particularly if they were poor or came from an unusually dysfunctional family. I sympathize completely. Except when they try to ruin other people's enjoyment.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

204. I like Christmas trees

I don't celebrate the Christian part but I love the tree and the decorations. One thing I remember at the run up to Christmas was the Salvation Army band playing in the town square and collecting money for the poor. Christmas should be about giving not only to the family and friends but to the poor.

[el_bryanto]

209. I don't celebrate Christmas because I have no family nearby

and my friends are celebrating with their families. So i make a donation to Kiva and try and convince myself I'm happy.

But I'm glad you derive satisfaction from looking down your superior nose at all those who enjoy Christmas. I ought to try that.

Bryant

[Th1onein]

219. I'm sorry that you took my post to mean that.

That was not what I meant by it.

[el_bryanto]

233. that is clearly what you meant by it - you don't celebrate Christmas and those who do

are materlialist jerks. We get about 8-9 of these every holiday season- starting a bit early - but good on you. You are just plain better than most people.

Bryant

[Th1onein]

250. If I meant that by it, I would have said that.

But insulting me and my motives clearly makes you feel good, so enjoy your place on my Ignore list.

[FloridaJudy]

234. Then why on earth did you even bother posting about Christmas?

I don't celebrate Easter, and think people who do are just a bit odd. But I don't get up on my moral high horse every spring and explain why I think Easter shouldn't be celebrated. If people wish me a "Happy Easter", I just politely thank them. If they enjoy the holiday, why should I ruin it for them? I do the same if someone wishes me a Happy Passover, or Joyous Imbolc, or a Good Ramadan. As long as they don't insist I greet everyone the same way they do, it takes little effort to be civil.

Complaining about the way some people behave during their holy days is fair game. Trampling other people at Walmart to buy a flat-screen TV in honor of your savior's birthday is loathsome. Getting outraged because someone wished you a Happy Holiday instead of a Merry Christmas is whack. Driving drunk on New Years is dangerous. Beating up Jews on Easter is barbaric.

But dissing a holiday just because you don't celebrate it yourself is rude and confrontational. It's also flame bait.

Edited to add: I do make an exception for Columbus Day. Columbus was a jerk, and his arrival on this continent was a disaster for its original inhabitants. Celebrating it is a slap in the face to Native Americans. But since no one has ever wished me a Happy Columbus Day in person, I haven't needed to rebuff anyone.

[Th1onein]

251. Why you or anyone else would take the post to be on a moral high horse, I don't know.

I'm just stating an opinion, hoping to invite other opinions on the topic, like people do here every single day of the year. It amazes me that some of the same people who celebrate Christmas as a season of giving and brotherly love are the same ones who just took away food stamps from needy people. I don't like it that we reserve Christmas as a time to give. I'm not trying to ride in on a moral high horse; I'm stating my opinion.

What I have learned from this OP experience is that there are some really kind and good people on DU, and there are also some people who are really nasty characters.

[mynaturalrights]

211. You said

"and then spread the rest around me; to whomever crosses my path"

You are like Kung Fu

[onenote]

212. I don't view Christmas as just another day, but i don't celebrate it

but then again I'm Jewish. However,i enjoy the holiday. I enjoy the fact that my friends are enjoying a special day with their families. It would seem to me that someone with the empathy that you have for others the rest of the year would have the empathy to view Christmas as not just another day, not because of what it means to you, but because of what it means to others.

[Th1onein]

221. I understand that it's not just another day for everyone.

I choose to treat it as just another day, though. It's how I survive it.

I have this friend that I met about two years ago. He was just about homeless, living in an airstream trailer, with no air conditioning (in Texas), and no running water, stove, etc. He came to my house around Christmas, looking for work. I invited him in, gave him work, and money, and got to know him a little bit. He came over on Christmas Eve, in the evening, and stayed until about 11pm. I could see the fear in his eyes that he would be turned down, when he asked me for something--he knew these kids whose parents were drug addicts, who were not going to have a Christmas at all, and he wanted me to buy them Christmas presents.

Of course, the stores weren't open, and even if they were, I was not about to go out on Christmas Eve, to shop. But the next day, I took him to a Walgreens and picked up a few presents for each kid, and something for the mom and dad, and wrapping paper and bows. I took him back to my house, wrapped the presents up, and pu them in a garbage bag, and dropped him off at his friend's house.

It's totally against my principles, of course, because I do not like Christmas, but I do this every year now. There was something about that fear in his eyes, and his asking for something for someone else, that just moved me. I don't want to take that from someone else.

[Tanuki]

246. Walgreens was open on Christmas day? Wow,

you're sure doing some revisionism from your OP.

[Th1onein]

249. Yes, it's about the only thing open on Christmas Day

Even Walmart was closed.

And, no, I'm not into revisionism. As I said before, it is against my principles to celebrate Christmas, but I wasn't the one doing the celebrating. It was just touching to me that this person, who had nothing, cared so much for others.

[tblue37]

220. Nor do I. I hopped off that treadmill years ago. nt

[hrmjustin]

222. For me it is about the birth of Jesus Christ and spending quality time with family and friends.

It is a good time for me.

[darkangel218]

223. Christmas is just another commercial holiday.

Just like Halloween and Valentine's day.

One more month of xmas carols and nonsense.

Lots of joy!!

[Deep13]

230. I don't celebrate it because it has become a reminder of loss.

It was centered on a certain relative who is no longer among the living.

[Th1onein]

231. I understand, Deep13.

I wish more people understood that, for many, it is a very painful season.

[gollygee]

235. I have little kids

if I didn't celebrate it, there would be sadness rather than merriment. I chose happy kids.

[Th1onein]

252. I don't blame you. I'd probably make the same choice in your shoes.

[CFLDem]

236. I'm an agnostic atheist too

and I celebrate all the mainstream holidays and even some homegrown made up ones.

Life is too short to not celebrate the holidays, IMO.

[Phentex]

240. Sounds like me except

I'm just a plain atheist. But I like to celebrate stuff and find little joys where I can.

[cherokeeprogressive]

237. I'm absolutely flabbergasted that so many people seem to give a fuck.

[Bobbie Jo]

244. This

Another day, another vanity post.

[yuiyoshida]

238. I may have mentioned this BEFORE....

I am Shinto~Buddhist. (Jodo Shinshu). So is my family, even though I grew up in the United States, We celebrate "Kurisumasu'' as they do in JAPAN. Japan's Kurisumasu is like a romantic holiday. Like Valentines Day. No one takes the day off.. Families still purchase gifts for each other, a Kurisumasu Keki (Xmas Cake) is often purchased .. This is a vanilla icing cake with lots of Strawberries both on top and inside.

In Japan some actually go to KFC for a romantic "dinner" where Colonel Sanders has become a Christmas Icon. I will probably go to KFC on Christmas Eve, just for the HELL of it.

Since Japanese are mostly Buddhist Shinto, Christmas is never celebrated as a Religious holiday, like for example it might be in South Korea. There are less than 1% Japanese who actually are Christians. If you are curious to know why, look into Japanese History. Its pretty bloody, but a Shogun ran many Christians out of Japan, and those found were later crucified or beheaded. Japanese tend to be superstitious and its rather bad luck to be approached by anyone who is trying to convert you over to Christianity.

At Any rate, I will probably before the Holiday arrives post an article about how Kurisumasu is in Japan. So, technically I do not celebrate Christmas either, not in the religious sense. But I love how the Japanese have taken such a holiday and turned it into a kind of Valentines Day. OH...and yes... I will be looking forward to buying KURISUMASU KEKI this year!!!

[Sheri]

242. nice. nt

[Th1onein]

259. Colonel Sanders chicken and Chinese food, all in one thread about Christmas. Nice.

Do they celebrate New Year's day?

[yuiyoshida]

268. New Years in Japan is the same as New Years in New York...

The Chinese do have their Chinese new year in February or around March, but the Japanese go full out with the holiday on the first of January. Maybe around that time.. I will post something about how New Years is celebrated in Japan, as it is the biggest holiday there!

[Sheri]

241. i like to celebrate the solstice.

you know, it's the end of the short days as days start getting longer. it's a celebration of better days to come ... longer days, less depression. we are diurnal creatures, after all.

[cali]

243. .....

OK. It just seems like such a sad, impoverished attitude if there's no room for any celebration.

[backwoodsbob]

245. grats on a 250+post flamebait

well done.Well done indeed

[Th1onein]

253. Thanks, backwoodsbob.

And, surely, you know that that was my intention, right? I mean, who doesn't like getting attacked?

[Th1onein]

256. It is liberating.

And it's like checking out on all of the commercialization. No pressure, no worries, no debt. Plus, if you have lost someone close to you in life, Christmas and all of the family stuff is a crimson reminder of that loss. I find it much easier just to check out of the holiday, altogether.

Because of the risk of getting attacked again, let me say, though, that this is for ME. These are MY values, and I am not intending on imposing them on anyone else.

[RedCappedBandit]

260. I'm an atheist and I love christmas

The atmosphere is enjoyable and very nostalgic

You bring up good points, though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

261. It is a day to sleep in

and for me to cook something special, not because it is Christmas, but because it is a day I have the time to do such.



And no, I do not believe in God. I will plain out say it.

[Th1onein]

262. Well, there is that....

I usually use the holidays to catch up on work that I didn't have time to do otherwise. That way, I don't feel so stressed with all of those loose ends hanging over my head, when regular working hours start again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

263. See, it has some utility

The holidays are a time to get together if that is what you want to do, cook a good meal, sleep in, catch up on work, and we are increasingly not alone. Millennials are growing up to detest religion, (or fully embrace it)

http://www.salon.com/2013/11/04/were_raising_a_generation_of_atheists/

Trust me, this is scaring the living daylights of insert religious leader here. Of course when you go to an orthodox service in Mexico City (and I am sure the same would happen here) and you have crass attacks on modern science, well that repels me even more.

[Th1onein]

265. Good article.

I think that the authors are right in that people are turned off by religions' entrance into politics. Especially so, since most of the religions that are so vocal in the political realm are also the most intolerant. Unless you are very sick, emotionally, hate has a tendency to burn itself out, and that's all a lot of these so-called religious leaders have going for them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

267. There are more, the trend is accelerating

but on the other hand so is a return to the old time religion by some, and imho, I have no way to prove it beyond anecdote, it is also a reaction to modern life.

[DCBob]

264. why should anyone care?

[Th1onein]

266. You cared enough to waste the time and effort to post, didn't you?

And, apparently, a hundred or so other people did, too.

[JTFrog]

272. Cool story bro. n/t

[brooklynite]

273. How ironic that a non-religious person would be so "holier than thou"....

...btw, do really need that computer you're using to vent about how bad Christmas is? The money you spent on it coulf go for the poor as well, right?

[Th1onein]

276. You really need to read the whole thread.

I am far from "holier than thou," but thanks for judging me without knowing me.

[LanternWaste]

274. the subsistence farmer in Kenya imagines your computer and internet connection are both...

"There is too much NEED to waste money on frivolous crap..."

I'd imagine the subsistence farmer in Kenya imagine your computer and internet connection or transportation, or even lighting are all accurate examples of the frivolous crap you are so adamantly opposed to.

I also imagine we all rationalize our own frivolous crap as a necessity, while simultaneous implying that the same for others is mere desire... which seems to me that we often and unwittingly hold others to a higher standard than we hold ourselves to.

[Th1onein]

277. I hold no one to any standard, except for myself.

And this is my work computer, which I use to make the money I spend on others. Each to his own; I judge only myself.

[LanternWaste]

278. I never said you do or do not.

" I hold no one to any standard, except for myself..."
I never said you do or do not... that you inferred so is on you.

However, I'm quite sure you wish everyone to believe your own personal belongings are quite necessary to survival and not simply extravagant desires that take food out of the mouths of others.


" I judge only myself..."
The posts of yours in this thread indicate otherwise... yet I'm quite certain you will rationalize that otherwise.

[Th1onein]

279. Go judge someone else, please.

We all rationalize what we want to rationalize. I am no different in that respect, from anyone else. I do, though, try to be reflective, and I judge myself much more harshly than most others would probably judge me.