What would you say to Israel regarding the Iran nuke deal?

[OmahaBlueDog]

Last edited Mon Nov 25, 2013, 06:53 PM - Edit history (1)

In this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024086987, an overwhelming number of DUers who chose to respond indicated that they are happy with the news that a potential breakthrough has come with Iran. Israel, OTOH, has expressed grave reservations about any dealings with Iran. What would you say to our longtime ally?

ETA: I have no idea why the link didn't work. Here's another copy: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024086987

[on point]

1. Your turn to disarm nuclear weapons & destroy capability now

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

39. Yes, Israel is the real threat in the Middle East. Thank goodness Kerry is now our Sec of State & got the deal done.

[spanone]

2. give peace a chance.

[rdharma]

3. I'd say ..........

[Fumesucker]

4. I'll quote that Very Serious Person, the Mustache of Understanding

"Suck on this!".

[LuvNewcastle]

5. I'm curious to know what average Israelis think and not just

Netanyahu and the Likud Party. Netanyahu and his party are radicals and they aren't, I believe, truly representative of all Israelis. I think a significant number of Israelis are either cautiously happy about the news or they're indifferent about it.

Our government has to deal with Netanyahu, of course, and we can't disrespect or isolate him, but we don't have to placate him either. The same goes for the Saudis. I think we should make it clear to our traditional allies in the Middle East that our goal is to further peace and stability in the region. We are serving our interests, not theirs, and furthermore, our military will not be used to further their long term plans for dominance in the region. We would say this last part privately, of course.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

21. Yes, yes, yes, yes, and

yes.

[kelliekat44]

52. You seldom hear about Likud opposition or the "refusniks." nt

[giftedgirl77]

6. Don't start no shit, there won't be no shit

[renie408]

45. :)

[JackRiddler]

7. Aid ends today. Make peace now.

What do you mean, "our" long-term ally? Israel is a client of the USG, but that doesn't represent a "we" that includes all Americans, as your choice of pronoun implies.

I'd say your aid ends today, but we'll be happy to subsidize a peace deal with Palestine as needed. Also, disarm your nuclear arsenal. Also, stop making false panic about Iran.

[OmahaBlueDog]

46. "Our" as in the US Government

No group of Americans is happy with anything as a whole. Are the Dallas Cowboys "America's Team"? Hell no.

[JackRiddler]

49. Please. The Cowboys are not a comparable case.

The "we" that equates the people and the country with the government and its policies is central, pervasive, and insidious. It's our government, but we cannot be said to do everything it does.

[tridim]

8. Please dump your neocon government, Israelis.

Because peace will never be possible unless and until you do.

[polichick]

31. That's the truth.

[treestar]

9. I would think they would be relieved

Isn't Iran with nukes their biggest nightmare?

[Laelth]

11. They're not relieved for that very reason.

The agreement allows Iran to continue to enrich uranium (just not enough to produce weapons-grade material). From what I can tell, Israel wants enrichment in Iran to stop--period.



-Laelth

[treestar]

20. If not enough to produce

Weapons grade material

No nuking of Israel possible.

[Laelth]

24. Quite true.

The Israelis, however, do not trust that the Iranians will confine their uranium enrichment activities as they have promised. They have good reason to be suspicious, I think.



-Laelth

[FarCenter]

10. You are smaller than New Jersey

[karynnj]

18. Israel's power in the world is not a function of their size or economic or military power

It is also not the power of "the Jews". (Most US Jews do not favor Likkud policies) It is the power of Christian evangelicals who love Israel, while not liking American Jews at all.

[FarCenter]

35. That would be Israel's power in the US -- the world has fewer Christian evangelicals.

[karynnj]

40. Absolutely - and I am shocked at my own use of world there

- pretty America centric!

[Marr]

43. It's a function of their being essentially a western client state in the region.

Put bluntly, they're our local thug. That distinction could very quickly evaporate for a whole list of reasons.

[kelliekat44]

53. Amen to that!!! nt

[Laelth]

12. This is about all we can say: Trust us.

And that's what we are, in fact, saying. I understand their skepticism.

-Laelth

[leftynyc]

13. Amen

Anyone who doesn't look at the mullahs in Iran with skepticism is a complete moron.

[Laelth]

17. Hear, hear! n/t

-Laelth

[geek tragedy]

14. not our job to clean up your messes. nt

[JaneyVee]

15. How can you possibly be unhappy with freezing uranium production and

Diluting anything at 20% down to 3%, plus unlimited inspections?

[karynnj]

16. I would simply send them a link to any of the many times Secretary Kerry answered that

His comments have pointed out that with the agreement - Iran will actually INCREASE THE TIME needed to "break out" ( create a nuclear bomb). Without the agreement, they are - per Israel itself - moving closer day by day. (In fact, if you followed the various Israeli projections over time - they already would have had a bomb.)

The other thing I would ask is what is the alternative to this agreement?

- Netanyahu suggests that further tightening the sanctions, could lead to a far broader agreement that would dismantle everything. However, this ignores that - if Iran is as close as Israel insists - they might react by moving as fast as they could to the bomb - thinking it the only way out.

- Israel or Saudi Arabia attacking Iran - or pushing the US to do so?
To that I respond with this Kerry statement: "War is the failure of diplomacy"

Another response is that of the pro-Israel, pro-peace Jstreet.

http://jstreet.org/blog/post/j-street-sees-iran-agreement-as-positive-first-step_1

[HereSince1628]

19. Israel shouldn't worry. If Iran nukes them, we'll nuke Iran

That's the nature of MAD...it depends on response rather than prior restraint.

[Dreamer Tatum]

22. I'd say it was nice knowing you.

And enjoy the extra six months.

[Whisp]

23. That link is dead.

At least at my end.

Was it erased from the history books?

[OmahaBlueDog]

44. Thanks. I've attempted to fix on edit.

[polichick]

25. Why is it okay for the U.S. and Israel to have nukes, but not Iran?

[treestar]

28. Hasn't Iran said they want Israel

Gone? Iran does the aggressive talk.

[polichick]

30. That's still the question I'd ask - makes no sense for one country...

to have access but not others.

(Israel is not exactly a good neighbor these days either.)

[treestar]

41. But they don't outright claim they intend to destroy some other country

Maybe except Palestine, but they don't admit that.

[polichick]

48. Actions speak louder than words...

and the continuing settlements show what kind of a player Israel is.

[pscot]

26. Sit down and STFU

[gopiscrap]

27. Fuck you Isreal

you're the Middle East biggest reason why Middle East is such a mess.

[Tom Rinaldo]

29. You can't erase knowledge with air stikes. If Iran is motivated enough they will get nuclear weapons

Every freaking expert I have ever read on the subject says that bombing Iran could set back their nuclear program by something like 3 years, but they could rebuoid it even deeper underground. Sure it would put a huge strain on Iran to do so, but if Iran is attacked by Israel millions of people, in Iran and throughout the Middle East, will live for vengance and they will remain hyper violent enemies of Israel for generations. THEN Iran will have both the bomb and the motivation to actually use it against Israel. The answer is to motivate Iran to not build a bomb and/or not to use weapons of mass destruction of any sort against Israel or anyone else. That is not achieved by long term isolation of Iran from the international community.

[PFunk]

32. Cope!

What's done is done. Deal with it and move on.

[jsr]

33. Quit talking and bomb Iran NOW!

[Nye Bevan]

34. We understand that the batshit crazy Holocaust-denying Ayatollahs make you a little nervous,

with them being on your doorstep and all, but we're going to give this our best shot. If Iran steps out of line or tries to push their luck, the deal's off. Oh, and if they actually set off any nukes it's bye-bye Tehran.

[DustyJoe]

54. don't buy that

I'm sorry but the US drawing red lines concerning WMD use has proven to be drawn in chalk recently. I honestly believe Iran could set off a nuke with no fear of any reprisal whatsoever from the US.

[Orrex]

55. Can someone remind me which nations in that area have nukes?

I agree that nukes in the region would be hugely destablizing element.

[OmahaBlueDog]

58. Officially, Israel & Pakistan

unofficially....who knows?

[Nye Bevan]

56. Granted, that is definitely a concern.

It's incredibly important to absolutely watch the Iranians like a hawk to ensure they keep their end of this deal.

[OmahaBlueDog]

59. Iran setting off a nuke has never been our fear

The fear has been that they'd develop a weapon and turn it over to a non-state actor (read: terrorist organization).

If Al Qaida nukes you, who do you bomb? How do you retaliate? You'd have to categorically prove Iran was the source. That could be difficult.

[stevenleser]

36. Grassroots Israelis are supportive.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024089577

[NuclearDem]

37. Calm down and let us handle it.

It's the least you owe us for coming to your rescue in 1973.

[roody]

38. Get a clue.

[eissa]

42. You and the Saudis need to stop acting like Mean Girls

Just because we're talking to someone you hate doesn't mean we still don't like you. Relax.

[renie408]

47. Get over yourself.

[Orsino]

50. Peace is yours, or would be if you really wanted it. n/t

[MADem]

51. I would tell them to have faith in the process. The verification protocol is very strict.

Iran won't be able to get away with much, and if they try and get bagged, they will be up to their eyeballs in sanctions on steroids.

I would also point out to them, sotto voce, that any rapprochement with Iran provides avenues for intelligence professionals to engage in HUMINT activities in other areas, which could eventually lead to a lessening of hostilities/rhetoric down the line. The Israelis used to be the "Go To" guys when it came to Iranian, Iraqi and Turkish intelligence efforts, and even back channel negotiations, when needed, but they've lost a lot of that mojo in the last few decades due to the upheavals in the region.

[HappyMe]

57. Stfu and give it a chance.

[LittleBlue]

60. We gave you a chance to act like adults

countless times, but you passed when you tried to sabotage every effort we've made. Now go sit at the kiddie table while the adults negotiate peace.