Arne Duncan: ‘White suburban moms’ upset that Common Core shows their kids aren’t ‘brilliant’

[boston bean]

On Friday, Duncan spoke in Richmond, Va., about the growing opposition to Common Core and their implementation in states around the country before a meeting of the Council of Chief State Schools Officers Organization. Education Department communications chief Massie Ritsch said in an e-mail that he does not believe that there is a full transcript of Duncan’s remarks, but he referred to the following write-up from Politico’s Libby Nelson, who was at the event:

Education Secretary Arne Duncan told an audience of state superintendents this afternoon that the Education Department and other Common Core supporters didn’t fully anticipate the effect the standards would have once implemented.

“It’s fascinating to me that some of the pushback is coming from, sort of, white suburban moms who — all of a sudden — their child isn’t as brilliant as they thought they were and their school isn’t quite as good as they thought they were, and that’s pretty scary,” Duncan said. “You’ve bet your house and where you live and everything on, ‘My child’s going to be prepared.’ That can be a punch in the gut.”

Overcoming that will require communicating to parents that competition is now global, not local, he said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/11/16/arne-duncan-white-surburban-moms-upset-that-common-core-shows-their-kids-arent-brilliant/

[MichiganVote]

1. Letting Arne out of his cage is always dicey. Total mouth breather.

[hobbit709]

2. Arne Duncan upset because not everyone believes his BS.

[KG]

3. piss on Arne Duncan

[Android3.14]

4. What's wrong with common core?

Our schools are awful compared to other industrialized nations. The number of people who are unable to read, write and calculate is a disaster. Yet teachers come under covert and overt pressure to pass students who have not shown any progress.
Anyone with any sense knows that in order to have successful students, we must make school more challenging and use evaluations to determine the next steps in progress for a student.
I've heard some griping about the Common Core being some sort of commercial takeover, but beyond that, are there any criticisms of the standards based on their impact on learning?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/oct/21/fact-checking-common-core-school-standards/

[LWolf]

12. The common core standards

are standards. There's nothing wrong with them in themselves. It's the misuse of those standards that is, and has been, the problem.

Our schools aren't "awful." Our schools are doing a damned fine job under horrific circumstances. Circumstances in many cases created by, and in all cases supported by, the current "reform" champions.

CCSS ARE more difficult than previous standards. That doesn't bother me. It's the misuse of standards and the abuse of students and the education system that bother me, and that's what the CCSS is being used for.

[Laelth]

22. +1. n/t

-Laelth

[Android3.14]

54. By misuse and abuse

I'm assuming you are talking about using the results to rate teachers and schools rather than use it to determine the trajectory of a student's learning. With that I agree and it needs to stop.
My wife, a university librarian, is on the local school board, and our district adopted CC at least a year ago. I mentioned this thread to her, and she said she will ask the superintendent how things are going.

[LWolf]

99. That's certainly one.

The high stakes for students is also problematic, since the test's best predictor is parent SES.

My district goes the "kinder and gentler" route, trying to offer support (as long as it doesn't cost anything) and positive encouragement while downplaying the very real threat involved.

[sabrina 1]

51. You cannot teach children anything with a system that is based on constant testing.

We've had over a decade now of Bush's 'education system' and the results are worse than they were before.

Education is not a 'business', it is a profession. Common Core is a business mostly thought up by business people.

Rather than destroying the Public Schools and taking public funds for private business, Arne should not be promoting the training of future low workers and hand that job over to someone who knows something about the profession of education.

[Android3.14]

56. Yes and no.

You have a few incorrect statements.
1. You said, "Common Core is a business mostly thought up by business people" which is incorrect. I refer you to this fact check.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/oct/21/fact-checking-common-core-school-standards/

2. "You cannot teach children anything with a system that is based on constant testing." This is sort of correct. Teaching requires constant evaluation, testing and retesting, When I was in front of my secondary students, I would check for understanding/comprehension/evaluation/etc. at least three or four times every five minutes. But I'm assuming you mean constant testing using standardized methods mandated by the government. It isn't constant, though it is too much because it does take up 10 days at least out of the 180 teaching days each year.

What I despise is the local pressure to pass unqualified students and then for the government to berate a school or teacher because the standardized scores are blow expectation.

The last school at which I taught (4 years agfo) had over 60 percent of the students achieving below expectations on two or more basic content areas such as math, reading, and writing. But somehow, over 80 percent of the student body is on the AB honor roll.

In order for the public school system to survive as anything but a cruel joke, we must have accurate evaluations which the schools/parents/teachers/students can use to determine the next step in an individual's education. Sacrificing accuracy in learning evaluation on the altar of self-esteem is why we have tea baggers.

[sabrina 1]

62. Yes, I did mean Standardized testing. And I also despise the pressure to pass students before they

ready, that pressure even worse now, based as it is on funding for the schools, a despicable tactic which shows clearly what the real objectives are.

NCLB was invented by businessmen. Big Business has profited hugely as a result of the Standardized Testing system which has zero to do with Education. The Corps who are in the business of publishing those states have made out like bandits. Not so, the teachers and students.

We should have a system where first, the standards to become a teacher should be as high as any other profession. NOT just 'you need this or that course' in order to earn a higher salary. There are models in other countries that actually have successful education programs we could learn from.

Teachers here are treated like dirt compared to doctors and lawyers.

Second, the entire system needs to be changed in terms of actual learning. Respect for the development of the child's abilities, and they are NOT all the same which is why standardized testing is such a failure as it assumes that every child IS the same, needs to be the biggest part of a teacher's job.

Geniuses can fail tests and often do so what is the purpose of them?
Some developed countries do not even begin to use standardized tests until the third grade.

Now we have teachers' hands tied regarding focusing on actual learning and teaching. Their focus is now limited to the restrictive material on these tests and everyone shuts out all other opportunities to actual learning and education.

It's a system that could only have been thought up by those ignorant of what education is and how children learn.

The only good purpose for testing to get an idea of how much of what they have been taught has been retained, or needs further work. We are doing the OPPOSITE. We have turned was only one tool in the hands of educators into something it can never be. OTher than harmful.

Now the material on the test, IS the curriculum. Who in their right mind EVER thought this could work? Well we know who didn't, educators. And we know who didn't care, Corporations whose goals are the bottom line, not education.

It's only going to get worse.

[Android3.14]

84. "It's only going to get worse"

Yup.
It appears we are in agreement.

[duffyduff]

68. More myths about American schools

Instead of repeating the fraudulent A Nation at Risk, how about reading some truthful analysis of American education.

[Android3.14]

82. Perhaps you could back that up with a little data?

Are you saying that US public schools are performing as well as, say, Japan or the Netherlands or even England? I'm unsure how your dislike of a report I barely recall (I checked it out, and I was in high school when the report came out) has any bearing on the current discussion.
Now, full disclosure here, I taught secondary science and math as well as college level courses in education and journalism, and I finally left it in utter disgust at the damage we have doing to our own nation since the 1940s and the uselessness of my own futile attempts to address it. I saw the Tea Party coming back in the '90s, and it emerged from our failed education system. Many of those mouth breathing armed zombie sheep have college degrees, and most of them graduated from high school.
Perhaps you could point me towards a "truthful analysis"? I've always relied on multiple sources of research, much of it compiled by experts in the field.
Perhaps I missed something.
So please, point me towards a study that shows US students are as good at mathematics and language skills as students from other industrialized nations, and I will question my conclusion that American public schools are an unmitigated disaster that accomplishes their task about as well as the Fukushima power plant boils water.
Huffington post article on this topic that cites actual research.
That last bit was hyperbole.

[MattBaggins]

83. Is there a RW meme you don't post on DU?

[Android3.14]

85. Weird

Either present cogent data or a reasonable argument, otherwise go peddle your own snake oil. If you think my observation that public education is on the wrong track, and my wish to improve education is an example of a RW meme, then we are so totally screwed.

[joeybee12]

110. And what Arne is proposing is what has been tried in those other countries, right?

That's how they're successful, right? This isn't just some privitization of schools so a few can get rich, right?

Hint, the answer to all three is no.

[Android3.14]

126. Please, some citations would be helpful

Paranoia is so rarely a rhetorical tool.

[Bluenorthwest]

5. Dear Duncpig, education of our children is not a competition like your anti gay Olympics in Sochi

Mocking parents for having interest and concern about that education is disgusting out of a man who profits from 'educational systems'.
Fuck Arne Duncan and the entire wing of the Party that brought him to the spotlight. Duncan makes me think poorly of the Obamas as parents and frames their use of Sidwell as tacky and out of touch.
Call your dog home, Barack, he's getting too frothy for decent company.

[msanthrope]

13. How is the Obama's choice to educate their children at a religious instiution 'tacky?'

That you would suggest that the Friends are 'out of touch' is puzzling.

[TBF]

17. Sidwell is not known for it's religious education -

it is known for being a very exclusive private school. Obama's children are receiving a very fine PRIVATE education while the rest of us are left behind in decaying public schools (which are currently being used to pump even more tax $$$ to corporations. Pearson LLP has made well over a billion dollars in the past decade just on testing in the state of Texas). Yet another transfer of $$$ from the middle class to the very wealthy.

[msanthrope]

34. I think your post reflects an ignorance of how Quaker schools operate. nt

[TBF]

38. Sure - while yours indicates you will say anything to excuse

Obama's actions. He has done some really good things but I am not going to gloss over the destruction of public schools in the US.

[msanthrope]

39. What action? That the President has the right to send his kids to a religious school?

That action not only needs no defense, I think it's shameful that on a Democratic board, posters cannot figure out that the President's children are not political pawns.

You know who else is upset about Sidwell??? Randall Terry. WBC. You think the choice of Sidwell might have been to the Secret Service's great relief?

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2009-11-12/news/36876410_1_sidwell-students-protests-private-schools

[TBF]

44. FFS ... No one sends anyone to Sidwell Friends because it is "religious" -

and that argument only makes you sound silly. It is a posh, prestigious school. Anyone who has lived inside the beltway is very familiar with why he sent his girls there. They are children of privilege and are being educated accordingly. This is not a winning argument for you.

[msanthrope]

45. As the parent of a child in a Friend's School, I often encounter the 'Quakerism isn't a 'real'

religion' meme. It's a silly meme...belied by the curriculum, meeting for worship, and missionary work students do.

[msanthrope]

52. Royal Rivera pears are lovely. Perhaps you meant to link something else? nt

[TBF]

55. thanks

I deleted. Too many windows open.

Honestly where Barack sends his children is not a huge issue (after all if I remember correctly Amy Carter was the last White House child to attend public school and there were logistical problems with it)- but to try to sell it after the fact as a "religious choice" seems disingenuous. That's all.

My argument is with the destruction of public education in this country, amongst other similar issues. Arne Duncan was an abysmal pick, but I realize that agendas are being served and I think this goes much higher that Obama.

To be clear I don't think it is Obama's fault that we are in debt either. When folks look at the condition of this country they need to realize we had republicans cutting taxes (especially capital gains on the very wealthy) the past 30 years, unions being pushed back, and our industry outsourced all while putting wars on credit cards. The blame for all of that lies at the feet of the republican party.

It's a much different country now than it was 35-40 years ago when I was growing up. To get to a better place however it is going to take a lot of local action in the form of voting and marching and striking - and I think we need to be brutally honest about what we see happening.

[xmas74]

112. If we had one locally I'd work three jobs to send my child. nt

[KamaAina]

63. Other presidential kids have gone to Sidwell

I'm thinking the J&B Twins. They know how to do security. DC public schools? Not so much.

[TBF]

64. Did they end up moving her?

I did mention that in my last post. I knew there were difficulties with her being in public school & I can't think of a president since who has used public schools.

Security and rigorous education ... but the decision was not religious.

[KamaAina]

65. Great heavens, you're right

but DC public schools have changed a lot since the '70s, and not for the better.

[lunasun]

127. Chelsea Clinton went there and Biden's grandkids- but Bush? I do not thhink so

[KamaAina]

129. You're right, it was Chelsea

I'd forgotten there were any White House kids between Amy and J&B!

[Bluenorthwest]

21. I went to schools like Sidwell, which is why I can read. I did not say the school is tacky I said

the Obama's use of such a school is tacky and out of touch considering they hired Duncan to go out and mock those who have also sought the best schools they can afford to access. Those who declare that other people's children 'must do this' need to have their own kids doing the same or they are hypocrites.
Removing one's own family from a system you want to 'reform' indicates that you do not support the reform. Now, if they were promoting a sort of reform that would bring our schools to Sidwell levels, using Sidwell methods that would make sense. But that is not what they do. They want their kids to have MORE than others. So they buy it for them, then they brag about it, then they mock you for giving a rip about your own kids. Rude. And far away from any 'Friends' based philosophy.

[hueymahl]

27. Umm . .

MsAnthrope did not say the school is tacky. She asked "how is the CHOICE . . . . Tacky"

What were you saying about your private education teaching you how to read?

That point aside, I don't necessarily disagree with the thrust of your main argument, i.e., that the Obama's are being somewhat hypocritical by promoting public schools and reform but not sending their kids to those same public schools. That said, they are parents too (and probably view their duties as parents above that of any policy initiative). And with the state of DC schools, it is hard for me to criticize them for wanting the best for their kids.

[leftyohiolib]

32. apparently mr sidwell can read but has poor comprehension

[msanthrope]

35. Really? You went to a Friend's school? And you dare criticize others who send their kids? nt

[sabrina 1]

60. So you don't want Sidwell Standards for all children, just for the top 1%?

Clearly you ignored the point Blue made. Those claiming to be 'reforming' a bad system ought to be implementing the same standards they apparently believe are the best for their own children for everyone else's.

They are correct that Sidwell standards are far higher than the one's they are promoting for everyone else's. Which is why they are not subjecting their own children to the standards they are pushing on everyone else.

So, rather than lower the standards for everyone else, what Blue stated is exactly RIGHT. Why are they NOT pushing for Sidwell Standards for everyone else?

Because Blue had those advantages himself, he is asking that everyone have them.

Not a very effort at trying to twist what he said, but just in case anyone fell for it, I think I have made clear where you twisted his comments.

'SIDWELL STANDARDS FOR EVERYONE'S CHILDREN'!

Thank you Bluenorthwest. I could not agree more.

[msanthrope]

61. You want a religious education for all American children, complete with missonary work?

That's amazing.

[sabrina 1]

73. You are opposed to the Sidwell standards of education for everyone except the children of the 1%

and using religion to defend that position.

Everyone understands that the Public Schools AND religious institutions AND private schools can all have the same EDUCATIONAL STANDARDS. If that was the goal.

I get it though, you are opposed to everyone but the wealthy having access to those educational standards.

That was way too transparent an effort at trying to defend high educational standards to everyone BUT the wealthy. Way below your normal standards.

[msanthrope]

74. You want the government to promote Quaker educational standards?

Yeah...that'll work!

[sabrina 1]

78. You don't want the standards available to the 1% to be available to everyone else?

It's okay, you don't have to try to hide your opinion. We get it!

[msanthrope]

80. Not religious ones. That's a parent's choice, not to be forced by government. nt

[sabrina 1]

96. It's clear that you oppose the same educational standards available for the wealthy for the masses.

Why are you struggling so hard to try distract from the issue?

Feel free to prove me wrong if I am wrong about your position on education.

The weak attempt to pretend that religion has anything to do with educational standards is just plain silly. It isn't remotely relevant.

Is Obama a Quaker btw?

[msanthrope]

98. And there we have it! Speculations as to.the President's true religion!

That didn't take long. Thank you.

[sabrina 1]

106. Why are you struggling so hard to keep Sidwell Educational Standards from the general public?

We understand where YOU stand wrt providing high standards of Education for all Americans.

But to try to push the notion that incorporating Sidwell Educational Standards into the Public Schools, instead of forcing the current, failed system on ordinary Americans, would involve the 'Government forcing Religion' on everyone is a pretty desperate attempt to keep the little people from access to the same standards the wealthy can buy.

You know we have laws against this, do you not?

I am for the same Sidwell Educational Standards being available to ALL Americans.

Why do you oppose this?

[msanthrope]

107. Thank you Sabrina, for asking what the President's real religion is. I think it revealing. nt

[sabrina 1]

122. Can't answer the simple question?

What does religion have to do with getting a high standard of education for all of America's children?

[msanthrope]

123. I don't answer your questions, Sabrina. You know that. But thanks for asking what the President's

religion is. I think that's a pretty revealing question.

[sabrina 1]

124. Sure you do, each time you try so hard to distract from the questions, you answer them

Last edited Wed Nov 20, 2013, 02:09 AM - Edit history (1)

clearly.

You also understand perfectly my question re whether someone whose children are enrolled in a Quaker school needs to be a Quaker or needs to be fearful, as you stated would be the case, of being subjected to religious pressure, in this case the President. Obviously he has no fear of that and doesn't share your views.

And the fear is even less if the Educational Standards of Sidwell are applied in the Public Schools. Because we have laws to protect against such influence.

You knew that too.

Why don't you support the same standards for all American children you appear to feel only the wealthy are entitled to?

You can correct me if I'm wrong about your views on this any time you wish. Otherwise I will assume I am correct in my assessment.

I will say it again, you are very, very bad at this game.

But I'm having fun.

[whathehell]

76. I'm sorry that you needed a private school to learn how to read..

I learned quite well in a parochial school with 40 kids in the class.

Just sayin...

[Brigid]

91. Did the nuns in Catholic school really walk around brandishing rulers?

That 's what we public school kids heard.

[whathehell]

93. Nah..

You public school kids seemed to have heard wrong.

[yurbud]

102. their kids learn to think and create, our kids learn to obey and fill in bubbles on tests

[Number23]

79. The snarling hate in that post is bewildering to see

I get the feeling the Obamas could send their kids to PS 92 and that poster would still find it "lacking" in some fashion for some reason.

[msanthrope]

81. How dare the Obamas not use their children as political pawns! Some posters obviously

know better than the children's own parents where they should go to school.

[yurbud]

101. because they are pushing policies on public schools to do things their kids school wouldn't

[msanthrope]

105. The Obama's don't set policy at Sidwell, and aren't obligated to use their

children as political pawns. Can you imagine providing Secret Service protection at a DC public school?

[yurbud]

108. what is it that makes that public school different from Sidwell Friends and less safe?

[msanthrope]

111. Why would you expect taxpayers who are sending their children to the public school to

participate in the background checks? Why would you expect the public employees to do so? Sidwell has flexibility that public schools would not have. I wouldn't expect the Obama girls to give up security to make a political point to satisfy the farthest Left.

The Obama girls have already had to deal with WBC and randall Terry protests at their school.

[yurbud]

115. I suspect it's also because those schools aren't as safe because of overcrowding and under-staffing,

and the corporate driven reforms they are forcing on the public schools stifle creative thought and curiosity.

[msanthrope]

118. That's a sweeping generalization of the DC schools. nt

[yurbud]

121. I meant it to be a sweeping generalization of all public schools and

I worked as a substitute teacher years ago and my wife is currently an elementary school teacher, so I have done real life experience to base that on.

[yurbud]

109. but its ok to use other peoples kids as political pawns?

[msanthrope]

113. Kindly name a child you think the President is using as pawn. nt

[yurbud]

114. by your definition, any kid that attends public schools being "reformed" by Arne Duncan

since you said Obama or Duncan sending their kids to public schools would be using them as pawns.

[msanthrope]

116. I think you misunderstood my definition. But kindly name a child you think is a pawn. nt

[yurbud]

117. Do you think the Obamas would WANTredundant standardized testing and a much narrower curriculum

than we had in public schools as kids and that private schools like Sidwell still provide?

Obama said this himself a few years back:

"One thing I never want to see happen is schools that are just teaching the test because then you’re not learning about the world, you’re not learning about different cultures, you’re not learning about science, you’re not learning about math," the president said. "All you’re learning about is how to fill out a little bubble on an exam and little tricks that you need to do in order to take a test and that’s not going to make education interesting."

"And young people do well in stuff that they’re interested in," Obama said. "They’re not going to do as well if it’s boring."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/03/29/president-obama-says-standardized-tests-make-education-boring-dont-adequately-measure-performance/

Unfortunately, he hasn't changed his education policy in a manner consistent with this statement.

[msanthrope]

119. I have no idea what private, family decisions went into their choice. nt

[yurbud]

120. that's weasling out of it

Last edited Wed Nov 20, 2013, 01:51 AM - Edit history (1)

[Danmel]

6. a they cling to their guns & their religion

Kind of comment. May be true but you don't always have to say it.

[Starry Messenger]

7. I liked education writer Anthony Cody's response to this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/AnthonyCody/status/401892906144768000

"I wonder if Arne Duncan's mother is now realizing he may not be as smart as she thought."

[Smarmie Doofus]

11. Is Ms Duncan's tutoring firm still in business?

Does it have contracts w. the CPS?

In NYC... you can make a zillion dollars like that. Private tutoring programs. Access to RttT $$$.

No?

[QC]

14. Excellent! Duncan must urely be Obama's single worst appointment,

and there's some very stiff competition for that title.

[Starry Messenger]

15. No argument from me.

He's also threatening CA. He's such an arrogant martinet. https://edsource.org/today/2013/duncan-threatens-repercussions-if-california-ends-state-tests-for-all-students/38695#.UooSlmjTkb0

[QC]

18. Does he have any actual qualifications for working in education?

I mean, other than being born with money and playing basketball with the president, of course.

[Starry Messenger]

23. Nope.

Our state supe is a former teacher, so naturally Arne is much better qualified to tell him what to do.

[yurbud]

50. you would think that would be a requirement for all administrators

rather than former corporate toady.

[kmlisle]

29. Under present "Reform" those are perfect qualifications

Oh, and you should have gone to private schools and ideally never taught or been in an actual classroom 3 years or less.

[QC]

33. Sadly, you are right.

It works the same way in higher ed, too, where the ideal administrator is someone who hasn't been in a classroom in years, if ever, but who knows how to sling corporate lingo.

[duffyduff]

71. The worst cabinet appointment EVER by ANY president. Duncan is a moron, and I am

serious when I say that.

[sabrina 1]

130. Lol, excellent response from Cody.

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. Sounds like he knows Halloween's over. The idea HAD been....

... to stampede the suburbs into supporting privatization when Mr. and Ms. Scarsdale saw the long-predicted decline in CC-linked testing.


Hmmm.... it appears that the suburbanites are not following the script.


>>>“It’s fascinating to me that some of the pushback is coming from, sort of, white suburban moms who — all of a sudden — their child isn’t as brilliant as they thought they were and their school isn’t quite as good as they thought they were, and that’s pretty scary,” Duncan said. “You’ve bet your house and where you live and everything on, ‘My child’s going to be prepared.’ That can be a punch in the gut.”>>>>>

I think of him as the Donald Rumsfeld of the Obama era. He just talks faster and isn't as amusing. But they're both full of shit.

[TBF]

9. Total BS. Our kids are doing fine on his precious tests

but what we uppity moms would like to see is our schools fully funded (bring back arts, music, recess etc) and teachers allowed to actually teach subject material again rather than pander to tests.

In 2012 Texas spent M$90 (yes, MILLION) on testing. Over the past decade the total paid to Pearson for testing has been well over a billion dollars! That is what we uppity white suburban moms are upset about. If anything our children will not be prepared for international competition not because they aren't bright enough - but rather because all the class time is used for standardized testing.
http://www.kxan.com/news/staars-price-tag-90-million-this-year

Obama had a lot of really bad picks to his cabinet in 2008 but Arne Duncan was clearly the worst of the lot.

[TransitJohn]

10. Common Core = ability to provide "education" on line

It's a front for shoving tax dollars at for-profit internet-delivered "education" that will further erode our public school system.

[roody]

31. +1

[Mass]

16. I oppose the testing side of Common Core. I think we need to be sure all kids are given a fair

education (which is part of what CC offers), but the problem is that testing kids again and again to make sure these goals are reached is counterproductive and hurtful for kids. Many parents agree with me.

In addition, I do not see the need to make the educational-industrial complex richer.

[sendero]

19. Wow..

... 49.9999999% of kids are below average when compared to other kids in the US! If you include other countries its way less than that.

Johnny can't read - summer is over and he's gone to seed.

Our educational system might be marginal, but students who WANT to get an education still can because I've seen it happen.

[duffyduff]

70. It isn't "marginal"--that is a neoliberal falsehood.

There is a movement to destroy public education for the simple reason it is public.

It is also a bipartisan affair.

[sendero]

72. Dude.....

.. I am not a fan of those who wish to privatize education, not in the slightest.

But anyone can look at the achievement scores and compare them to other countries and then there is NO WAY to deny that something is wrong.

Now the message of my post was that IMHO most of the time it is the student that cares little for getting an education that is the problem and I'm not sure what to do about that.

But claiming "there is no problem" isn't helpful either.

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. Jonathan Kozol says the same thing about education in general

One must never mistake the absolute allegiance (middle class white) people feel to the educational status quo that prevents minority and poor children from being really, actually competitive with their own children for high school and college spots (and thus, ultimately, of vying for class position). To be sure, common core and demented neoliberal education "reform" aren't the way to true equity (since the schools essentially become public/private institutions, and the wealthier parents pay for better programming), but Duncan is not saying anything different than what Kozol has been saying for years. There is a deep antipathy among the white middle class against any change that would empower minority and poor children within the system of general education. The current system essentially cuts between 15 and 25% of children out of the competitive field. It is against the interests of the white middle class to re-introduce those children on to the playing field.

[gollygee]

30. I think you're right

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2013, 10:55 AM - Edit history (1)

As a middle class white mom to school aged kids, I think you're right although I don't think they would word it that way. (Which doesn't make you any less right.) They would say something like they paid more for their home so they'd live in a "better" school district so their kids would get the best education. And of course, wherever there is a better and a best, there is a worse and a worst. They fully expect the worse schools to be schools that students of color attend.

Every child in our country needs a solid education, or at least an opportunity to get one. Though I think having higher expectations without having the necessary staff/infrastructre in place isn't the best way to go about it. School districts with mainly white kids have teachers with higher levels of experience than school districts with mainly students of color. They also have fewer kids per class, newer and better maintained schools, better supplies and equipment, and more opportunities offered for advanced classes. And even in integrated schools, kids get tracked very very early, before anyone could know what their real potential is, and white students get tracked higher than students who are not white.

My kids' school has a limit of 18 kids per kindergarten class, and 22 kids per class through 6th grade. On that basis alone, my kids will learn more, before you take into consideration any of the other inequities, which are also substantial.

I guess the issue is that we have to take care of the inequities, not just raise standards.

And then when urban schools don't perform as well, we sell them off to corporations to turn a profit.

Education is so screwed up in this country in so many ways, but the disparity of the quality of education between white school districts and school districts where most of the kids are not white is the biggest problem IMO. And I'm part of that problem, because I paid more for a house in a school district that has a limit of 18 kids per kindergarten class and 22 kids per class through 6th grade.

I guess the issue is that the educational status quo is working for us, the white middle class, and we as a group (not me personally) want to keep it simply because it works so well for us.

[uponit7771]

46. +1

[kmlisle]

42. While I agree that American schools are structurally racist I disagree that reform is a fix

Charter schools are re-segregating America in many cases and in a system already stacked against minority children, excessive testing and starving resources like libraries, teacher aids for children who need extra help, Art and Music and less time (about a third less time) to actually teach - 1-2 days on average per week go to preparing for and taking high stakes tests - makes it harder for them to succeed. I taught in a rural Title I middle school for over 20 years. It was actually a highly rated school with a great reputation that had a mix of wealthy and upper middle class kids who came there because of the school's reputation and kids who lived in poverty or were from poor working class families. So I taught kids whose parents spent a million dollars to build a practice track for their race horses and I taught kids who never went to town because there was no gas and sometimes no car. The latter children generally require a lot of support to do well in school and their experience of the arts and the opportunities of the outside world often were found in field trips or in some way through the school. Reform cuts these services to pay Pearson et al for testing. Plus Administrators, terrified of the result of low test scores on their careers, ban field trips, even when you find money to pay for them because it detracts from test prep time. This is not an environment conducive to real learning for any child but it is especially pernicious for children who are not apt to have art or music lessons or summer travel vacations or visits to museums with their parents that field trips and arts curriculum provide. In case you think these things are "frills" you need to understand how reading comprehension works based on background knowledge that is acquired through life experience and research that shows the Arts are an important contribution to educational success (they even raise test scores!). The only standards I have reviewed from the Common Core are Science because that is what I taught and while they were lacking a good background in Nature of science which was fixed somewhat after draft feedback came not just from me but from the National Science Teachers Association, there were also many things I liked about them. It is not so much the standards themselves, although I see criticism of the appropriateness of them at the elementary level, it is the implementation by the Educational Industrial Complex to maximize profit that I object to the most. Standards are not a bad thing, in fact I helped write my State Standards for Science and found I became a more effective teacher because of them. But standards if used rigidly ala tied to testing mania also make the assumption that every child is the same and can be taught the same way. This is the essence of the Reform Neoliberal philosophy that views the classroom as a factory floor and children as widgets. That and testing mania make reform bad for all children but especially bad for minorities and the poor.

[former9thward]

53. Paragraph breaks are your friend when posting on this board.

Even if it is not a 'new' paragraph. Your post is unreadable.

[lunasun]

128. True dat !

[BeyondGeography]

24. Not seeing the political upside of such a statement

[Starry Messenger]

26. It's a perfect bookend to his one in 2010 about New Orleans.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2010/01/duncan-katrina-was-the-best-thing-for-new-orleans-schools/

[erodriguez]

97. You got that right Starry.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Oh great, now Arne is insulting white suburban moms?

[yurbud]

49. I wish she was thinking that, but is there evidence she'll dump "profits before people" approach?

[MattBaggins]

88. She'll fucking promote Arne

[madrchsod]

28. duncan has/had his kids in the most expensive private school in chicago

he was a disaster for public education in chicago and rahm`s lackey is just as bad.

when it gets to this level there is no difference between republicans and democrats

[onlyadream]

36. Common core is more than just a set of standards

CC is all about testing.

This suburban mom is upset because my child had eleven days of testing last year, eighth grade. My boy is extremely smart with an excellent memory (currently in HS he's in all honor classes and still get straight 'A's). After one of these tests last year he said two things that said it all to me. First, they tested him on material that was never taught. He remembers EVERYTHING, so I know he is right about that. Testing on material never taught is ridiculous and upsetting. Second thing he said was that he was so sick of being tested that he stopped caring. I honestly shudder for the kids who aren't the high achievers or those who have learning difficulties. If my son is giving up, I'm sure others are too, and this isn't fair to them.

[abelenkpe]

37. Fuck you Arne Duncan

Competition is now global and not local. Yeah, that's why so many qualified, experienced, educated Americans are out of work right now. Stressing our kids out in school, attaching funding to their performance on high stakes tests is not going to guarantee more jobs for our children. Education is not why Americans can't compete in the global marketplace. WTF?

[AngryAmish]

40. Yet it will be the non-asian minority kids who will do worse.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-11-12/news/ct-tl-oak-park-d97-report-card-20131112_1_black-students-hispanic-students-low-income-students

"Tougher tests widen gap in performance in Oak Park schools"

"Had student performance been calculated the same way last year as it was this year, District 97 would have seen a slight increase in the percentage of students meeting reading standards and a slight decrease in students meeting math standards, according to this year's district report card. However, the adjustment meant the number of District 97 students meeting standards plunged 12 percentage points in reading and 17 percentage points in math, according to the report card.

The number of low-income students who passed reading exams dropped 24 percent, and the number who passed math exams dropped 34 percent, according to the data. Low-income students make up 22 percent of the student body, according to the report card.

Black students are the district's largest minority group, making up 23 percent of the student body, according to the data. The number of black students passing reading exams dropped 24 percentage points, while those passing math exams dropped 35 percent, the data show. Hispanic students make up 6 percent of the district population and Asian students make up 4 percent, according to the data."

Oak Park is an interesting place. There have been generations of enforced integration. They want diversity but not too much of it. Anyway, there is a persistent, intractable acheivement gap between the white and asian kids and the african americans. This new Common Core testing is increasing the gap.

[Renew Deal]

41. I think there's some amount of truth in his comments, but it's not the biggest reason for opposition

The biggest reason is that "common core" and particularly the testing lack value. Kids get nothing from being taught to take the test (rather than actual learning) and it's another attack on teachers. The fact is that those tests don't effect college entry, etc. It's just a show with no positive effect on the kids.

[kmlisle]

43. Note his comments attack parents rather than answer to the issues they raise.

This makes me think that he has no answers since many people when they are losing the debate will attack their opponents instead.

[yurbud]

48. this could be the beginning of the end for corporate education reform

It's one thing to do this crap to poor kids whose parents are too busy scrambling to survive to notice Duncan is selling education policy to the highest bidder, but when suburban moms are paying enough attention and criticizing the policy enough to merit this stupid comment from him, too many people know what's going on for this to continue.

Put a fork in this pork, it's done.

Now let's throw it to the dogs and get back to figuring out how to give every kid a good education WITHOUT putting the profits of testing, for profit charters, and education management companies first.

[greatlaurel]

57. Well said!

It is time to look to Finland's system. It does not enrich the corporations but educates all children regardless of their economic class. We can do this here. I hope you are right about the awakening of the suburban folks.

[laundry_queen]

77. I sure hope you are right. nt

[gopiscrap]

58. Arne Duncan is a shitwipe opportunist

who is going to turn corporate whore the minute he's out of office.

[yurbud]

66. you mean he wasn't a corporate whore before and during?

[gopiscrap]

67. well that also!

[yurbud]

69. He's the kind of guy who would have been pulling gold fillings at the concentration camps

someone whose whole job is figuring out how to exploit kids so his cronies can make a buck is the lowest form of moral filth.

[onpatrol98]

59. I have complained about Arne from Day 1...and took quite a bit of heat from it.

Arne has had great timing and great friends....

From Daley in Chicago to our President, Arne has had great friends...he is useless in his current position and his existence in this role is proof that a boys network not only exists, but thrives. His appointment was a gift to a friend and nothing more. Every day that he sits in the chair, I see it as a personal affront.

Teachers go to school for years, focusing on their craft. Year after year they toil and build experience. But, all Arne had to do to get the top spot in education is a decent jump shot and the right friends.

We should all be so fortunate.

[Erose999]

75. The problem in the Arne Duncan / Obama system of making schools compete for resources is that the

schools that lose, the ones that need help and resources the most... don't get it. They get pushed further to the fringes of the system. And an area having a reputation for having "bad schools" causes further disinvestment, etc. We shouldn't be using scarcity like a god damn weapon to further beat down those we should be lifting up. Until Arne gets that message, he can shut his damn pie hole...

You go look at real estate and rental ads on Craigslist. "Good schools" is used like a racist dog whistle.

[dsc]

86. I will say this for what Arne said

When high stakes testing causes blacks and Hispanics to fail people tend to blame the students but when these tests cause white students to fail people tend to blame the tests.

[gollygee]

87. +1

Very true.

[yurbud]

89. the tests are designed to prove all public schools are failures

and must be replaced by for profit charter schools or the school simply turned over to a for-profit education management company.

[dsc]

92. I agree with you on that

but I do think Duncan has a point about the difference in reaction between tests which flunk minorities and those that flunk whites. I have worked in schools that have had large minority enrollments for several years and I have seen the reaction when those students fail the tests. I also have seen the reaction when districts with white suburbanites fail the tests. It is quite different.

[yurbud]

100. I could see that being true. Coming from Duncan though it's like a cannibal telling you eat...

too much red meat.

[proud2BlibKansan]

94. +1

[yurbud]

90. If the went to W's prep school and gave him this test, would his score prove his teacher and school

were failures?

Or would it simply prove that through a combination of genetics and environment, he was a particularly tough nut to crack?

[JoeyT]

95. You tell 'em Arne!

Make sure the peasants know their place and not to question their betters!

Jesus he's an obnoxious dick. As someone said upthread: The worst of Obama's appointments, and that's some stiff competition.

Letting stupid assholes run around and yell at the peasants will totally help us in 2014.

[yurbud]

104. when the Democrats lose it's because the DLC'ers kick progressive in the teeth

then yell at us for not campaigning for them and being excited about voting for them.

I'm getting tired of choosing between Wall Street candidates with or without religious and racist nuts. The nuts are bad, but the nougat is worse.

[bobclark86]

103. NOW global?

Had any of these people paid attention, they'd notice we've been blathering on about global interdependence in schools since the fall of the Berlin Wall.

"Oh, but that doesn't apply to ME!!!"

Yeah, a lot of it is the whole "Wait, my kid isn't stupid! But he's MINE!" mentality.

We dump more money into education in this country than anywhere else in the world. As we've show by our abysmal scores, it isn't working. A third of fourth graders can't read Beverly Cleary books. We spend 7 to 8 times as much per student, but our math scores are about the same as those in Mexico. You know, the place literally millions of people have fled to come pick our lettuce?

It doesn't help we have 50 sets of standards that are incompatible, and a student moving between states can be a year or more off (Found this out when my family moved 30 miles once... I was a year ahead in math, but my classes in the second state were about a year behind in reading).

We are so far behind, I feel it necessary to post this:

We need to emulate (a word many high school grads here can't figure out) what other countries do -- which, coincidentally, has absolutely NOTHING to do with private schools with federal and state money.

Fun Factof the Day: One of the major forces opposing Common Core has this for their reasoning: "Agenda 21's coming to take our gunz and give us commie breadlines!"

Yup, the Tea Party.