Critics of Rush Limbaugh Ignore Bill Maher, Matt Taibbi Misogyny

[zoechen]

Kirsten Powers doubles down on Liberal misogny.



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/08/critics-of-rush-limbaugh-ignore-bill-maher-matt-taibbi-misogyny.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28The+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29




The truth hurts.




Members of the professional left reacted with outrage to my column this week calling them out for their fake war against media misogyny. Instead of addressing the encyclopedia of left-wing misogyny I raised, many liberals chose instead to start a ferocious battle with all manner of straw men.


“It’s not true that liberals never call out people for misogyny!” is the refrain. Of course it’s not true, and I never said it was. Many of the professional left seem incapable of distinguishing between a few blog posts and comments condemning left-wing misogyny and a full-scale war to remove someone from their job. This really shouldn’t be so hard to grasp: If you hate misogyny and sexism in the media, then react to the consistent and repeated misogyny of men on the left with the same fervor that you have reacted to Rush Limbaugh’s sickening outbursts


More at the link

[seabeyond]

1. i always call it out and it is not comparable to what limbaugh did. that simple. nt

[ProdigalJunkMail]

9. but you can't do that here...

people accuse you of being a right wing hack and spouting talking points...

sP

[CreekDog]

34. Rush Limbaugh attacks the minority members of society and women

advocating to take away their rights, to make them second class citizens, etc.

that IS misogyny.

Taibbi and Maher have been consistently on the side of women and minorities, working and advocating to expand their rights.

their language isn't always defensible but their advocacy is.

if you say that what Rush did and what they did is the same --your lying.

[seabeyond]

41. yes. i hear ya. hypocrisy seems to be insisted on, in some cases.

i prefer not to be a hypocrite. i was on maher, as many are, long before limbaugh or the right brought his name up.

[Whisp]

107. I fully agree.

Maher is a mere part time asshole - Rush is an overtime one. Also Maher is not the de facto leader of the Democratic Party like Rush is of the Pugs.

I'm not defending Maher here at all - I cringe and want to throttle the asshole when he spews stuff like that - but there is no comparison at all to him and Limbaugh. I don't get that people try to do that.

[tabbycat31]

2. here's the difference

Sandra Fluke is not a public figure.

And while Sarah may claim that Bristol is not, being a contestant on Dancing With the Stars pushed her into that territory.

[CAPHAVOC]

15. Legally she is.

Unless NYT v Sullivan is reversed. And it should be.

[hifiguy]

28. Maybe so, but it doesn't matter.

What The Bloated Sack said constituted actual malice, and where actual malice is proved, even public figures (or limited-purpose public figures, which is what Ms. Fluke would be likely determined to be) can recover damages.

[CAPHAVOC]

66. Would be nice to see a case. I would follow it.

I hope she files. Do you think he could claim she is a public figure? If so he could use that for a defense. That must be why he apologized. His lawyer.

[hifiguy]

67. Actual malice

I read Sullivan both as an undergrad and in law school. This quote from Wikipedia squares with what I know about the case:

The Court held that a public official suing for defamation must prove that the statement in question was made with actual malice, which in this context refers to knowledge or reckless lack of investigation, rather than the ordinary meaning of malicious intent. In his concurring opinion, Justice Black explained that "'malice,' even as defined by the Court, is an elusive, abstract concept, hard to prove and hard to disprove. The requirement that malice be proved provides at best an evanescent protection for the right critically to discuss public affairs and certainly does not measure up to the sturdy safeguard embodied in the First Amendment."

The term "malice" was not newly invented for the case, but came from existing libel law. In many jurisdictions, including Alabama (where the case arose), proof of "actual malice" (actual knowledge of falsity, or reckless disregard for the truth) was required in order for punitive damages to be awarded, or for other increased penalties. Since proof of the writer's malicious intentions is hard to provide, proof that the writer knowingly published a falsehood was generally accepted as proof of malice, under the assumption that only a malicious person would knowingly publish a falsehood. In Hoeppner v. Dunkirk Printing Co., 254 N.Y. 95 (1930), similarly, the court said: "The plaintiff alleges that this criticism of him and of his work was not fair and was not honest; it was published with actual malice, ill will and spite. If he establishes this allegation, he has made out a cause of action. No comment or criticism, otherwise libelous, is fair or just comment on a matter of public interest if it be made through actual ill will and malice." (p. 106)

In New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, the Supreme Court adopted the term "actual malice" and gave it constitutional significance, at the same time defining it in terms of the proof which had previously been usual.

The short definition of actual malice is knowledge of falsity or reckless disregard for the truth. The Bloated Sack's comments are absolutely within the "actual malice" rubric.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan

As for public figure, this discussion is pretty accurate:

A fairly high threshold of public activity is necessary to elevate people to public figure status. Typically, they must either be:

a public figure, either a public official or any other person pervasively involved in public affairs, or

a limited purpose public figure, meaning those who have "thrust themselves to the forefront of particular public controversies in order to influence the resolution of the issues involved." A "particularized determination" is required to decide whether a person is a limited purpose public figure, which can be variously interpreted.

According to attorney Aaron Larson:

A person can become an "involuntary public figure" as the result of publicity, even though that person did not want or invite the public attention. For example, people accused of high profile crimes may be unable to pursue actions for defamation even after their innocence is established...

A person can also become a "limited public figure" by engaging in actions which generate publicity within a narrow area of interest. For example, [jokes about]... Terry Rakolta [an activist who spearheaded a boycott of the show Married With Children] were fair comments... within the confines of her public conduct [and] protected by Ms. Rakolta's status as a "limited public figure".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure

At most, Ms. Fluke is a limited purpose public figure. Which doesn't matter. The Bloated Sack spoke with what the law regards as actual malice.

[boxman15]

26. Testifying in front of Congress probably makes Fluke a public figure.

I agree the differences between what the likes of Maher and others say is very different than what Rush said, but that point probably won't make it far in court if it goes that far.

I think liberal commentators need to tone down the rhetoric, too. They're not nearly as bad as the conservative radio is, but that doesn't make it right.

[tabbycat31]

32. I've testified at the state house, does that make me a public figure?

Now contrast that to Bristol Palin, who was a contestant on a reality show. (If Sarah Palin's Alaska did not exist, I could argue that the other Palin kids are not public figures).

Anyone who writes a book and goes on Dancing with the Stars is a public figure period.

[KharmaTrain]

38. Were Your Remarks Printed In The PUBLIC Record?

If so, yep, your remarks being made public makes you also a public figure.

As a rule of thumb anyone who appears on your teevee is a public figure as it is a public medium and one has the right to refuse for their likeness to appear (why people sign consent forms).

[hfojvt]

36. that dodges the point though

That makes it sound like misogyny is acceptable against public figures.

[roguevalley]

100. language matters no matter who says it. it is not defensible for anyone if someone is

considered bad for doing it and not others. You cancel out your position when you use vile words like this. I can't cut anyone anywhere any slack. I have small girls in my family. and boys.

[gratuitous]

3. Careful! You'll pull something stretching that far

Better warm up first.

[Sheepshank]

122. spot on

a couple of hundred reps first should do for starters

[snooper2]

4. Your not that important Kirsten

[The Blue Flower]

5. None of those instances

None of those instances that they cite are in the same category as decades of denigrating women as an entire class.

[tularetom]

6. Oh shit, more "both sides are equally guilty" bullshit

WTF is a Kirsten Powers anyway?

[hifiguy]

7. Andre the Giant couldn't reach that far

if he had ever tried.

Neither Maher nor Taibbi is the de facto leader of a political party and neither has ever attacked a private person seventy-three times over the course of three days. Nor did they ever demand that some woman make sex tapes and send them in. End of story. Massive false equivalence.

[Johonny]

8. A few blog posts versus a 30 year career

that's the distinction liberals are smart enough to make and that writer is not. How do we remove Rush from his job? If Rush can find a company that wants to associate its name with hatred of women, that's fine. Should our troops have to listen to racist, sexist political commentary of no value? That's a different question.

There is very little to compare on the left to the magnitude of what Rush has done for 30 years, well there's Dom Imus oops... oh well it was a good fact free story that person wrote there.

[Kingofalldems]

10. Wow, another Rush fan shows up.

[Zalatix]

39. So wanting to punish all offenders makes you a Rush fan?

[HangOnKids]

44. You need to pay closer attention Z n/t

[Zalatix]

69. Limbaugh is sinking beneath the waves.

Excuse time is running out for those who want to hold off on going after all sexists and taking them off the air with boycotts.

Like I said in another thread... destroy Limbaugh. Then boycott everyone else off the air. Objective #1 is within reach.

[ProSense]

11. One of

"Critics of Rush Limbaugh Ignore Bill Maher, Matt Taibbi Misogyny"

...the most idiotic claims in an attempt to cover blowhard Limbaugh's ass.

First of all, the claim that critics ignore misogyny is a red herring. In fact, Limbaugh is the only one who gets away with vile assaults. Many others, including Maher, were held accountabe. Maher was removed from the public airwaves.

Secondly, not only were Limbaugh's attacks more extreme, vile and directed toward a private citizen, the claim is that past comments by anyone should be taken into account when weighing Limbaugh's vile three-day attack. In fact, he continues to attack Fluke and other women.

It's absurd!



Edited to clean up.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

12. They aren't the same but...............

Bill Maher defended Rush Limbaugh. That to me makes them equal.

[DutchLiberal]

81. What about all the times Maher slammed and insulted Limbaugh on his show?

Or doesn't that count?

[Lint Head]

13. The difference: Limbaugh is not a comedian. He is the mouthpiece of the Republican party

and Bill Mahr makes jokes about people and situations. That is what comedians do.

When this subject comes up it is always fascinating how right wing nuts can't find one sentence said by a liberal commentator they can put quotes around. Limbaugh has many insulting things that are in black and white with quotes.

I challenge any wing nutter to come up with a liberal quote from a political pundit that even resembles the "S" and "P" words that Limbaugh used. I also challenge any wing nut to come up with an example of a liberal that spent three days insulting and berating a single individual and demanding a video of them having sex.

[joeglow3]

50. You clearly did not read the article

sexism is sexism and there is NO justifying it. Nice try, though.

[Lint Head]

68. I read the article. I am not responding to the article. I'm giving my opinion.

And no the ends do not justify the means. Sexism is sexism. Limbaugh is a propaganda hate monger. Hate mongers are hate mongers.

[joeglow3]

82. Exactly.

I don't care if you consider Maher a comedian or not. Sexism is sexism and cannot be tolerated.

I have Rush lovers in my family, and they contend Rush is just an entertainer and Maher is the representative of the party (because of all the liberal guests he has (i.e. Axelrod tonight) and the huge sums of money he publically gives to president Obama). I don't tolerate that bull shit excuse from them and, thus, cannot tolerate that bullshit excuse when people on my side of the spectrum try to pull it.

[Lint Head]

93. Mahr stood up for Limbaugh. I don't 'consider' Mahr a comedian. He 'is' a comedian.

And I would bet that is on his IRS form. Comedy is a matter of taste. Mahr has right wing guests all the time. Rush has never had a left wing person on his show. Limbaugh is not a comedian or an entertainer.
Limbaugh is a propaganda hate monger who could be compared to Joesph Goebbels because he is the mouthpiece of a political party disguised an an entertainer.

It's funny how the majority of Republicans want to bomb Iran but are afraid of Rush Limbaugh.

I have Rush lovers in my family also and they know not to speak of his bigotry around me, my children or my wife. Rush lovers should think hard about the innocent dead civilians and that tortured human beings that Limbaugh's ideas promoted when George the war criminal ran our country into the ground.

[2pooped2pop]

14. for me, it's not just about his recent fuck up

it's about his entire show. He has been spewing vile hateful bullshit unchecked for so long that he became acceptable to America.

He is a vile, hateful, treasonous, drug addicted, asshole who should never be heard on American (or other) airwaves.

It's not the same. It's not just about the anti female shit. It's about the whole thing.

So yes, others have said shit. Many have paid for it, many have not. But none are as vile and corosive as Rush.

It's not the same.

[canoeist52]

16. I responde to this meme

by saying, "Bill Mahr in no way represents the "liberal left" and is a comedian. Are you saying that Rush Limbaugh I also a comedian?"
They told me to shut the hell up and never reply to a post by them again!

[One of the 99]

17. Kristen Powers has sold her soul

for a paycheck from FAUX News and the NY Post. If this is an issue that has concerned her, why is it only now that she is saying something about it. The best refutation of her accusations was made by David Frum: http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/05/opinion/frum-rush-limbaugh-fairness/index.html

And let me just say this, I've never cared for Matt Taibbi. He's nasty and many times fact challenged: http://prospect.org/article/errors-matt-taibbi

As far as Maher, many of his sexist comments disturb me as well as his racist comments. He called the President 'chocolate jesus' for most of 2008 and makes many subtle racist comments like he did to Neil DeGrasse Tyson on last week's show.

But also remember, Sarah Palin and Michelle Malkin are not innocent victims in this either. They have made many outrageous comments over the years. In contrast to Ms. Fluke who in her appearance before congress stated her case with respect and class.

[SunsetDreams]

18. Not comparable at all (see Post)

CAUGHT ON TAPE: Limbaugh’s 70 Sexist Smears

ThinkProgress has reviewed the footage from the first three days between Limbaugh’s initial attack and his apology, and counted no less than seventy insults and smears which Limbaugh hurled at Fluke. Below is the material that brought Limbaugh to his current impasse, and for which Republican leaders and the GOP candidates for president have criticized him in only the most tepid of terms — assuming they criticize him at all. Viewers can judge for themselves if the apology, and the Republicans’ response, is adequate to Limbaugh’s offense:

http://thinkprogress.org/media/2012/03/07/439355/caught-on-tape-limbaughs-70-sexist-smears/


Limbaugh’s Latest Female Target: ‘B-i-itchy’ Washington Post Writer

After targeting Georgetown Law student Sandra Fluke last week and journalist Tracie McMillan this week, Limbaugh turned his sights on Washington Post comedy writer Alexandra Petri today. Petri wrote a column for the Post’s comedy section yesterday, but Limbaugh apparently had a bit of an Onion problem and assumed Petri was a reporter, not a satirist.
Limbaugh attacks the “so-called reporter” (she’s not actually called that) for inserting her “b-i-itchy opinion” into her “reporting” (which was not actually reporting). Again, Limbaugh apparently can’t help but use gendered slurs to attack his female critics. Listen to the audio via Media Matters(at link)

http://thinkprogress.org/media/2012/03/08/440868/limbaugh-washington-post-writer/


Rush Limbaugh's Worst Advertiser-Sponsored Attacks On The LGBT Community

Since engaging in misogynistic attacks on Georgetown law student Sandra Fluke, Rush Limbaugh has lost at least 50 advertisers and has been the subject of widespread criticism. In addition, two radio stations have reportedly dropped his show. But Limbaugh also has a long history of using his show to engage in bigoted attacks, including using it as a platform to attack LGBT people and issues.

Despite his reported support of civil unions, Limbaugh has frequently mocked and attacked the LGBT community. Here are some of Limbaugh's worst anti-LGBT comments.

On November 5, 2004, Limbaugh responded to a high school English teacher who was concerned about the "vilification" and "demeaning" of her openly gay students by claiming that openly gay students are "trumpeting" their sexuality and "inviting dissent":

...

On the November 22, 2011, edition of his show, Limbaugh claimed that Larry King, a 15-year-old openly gay student who was killed by a reportedly homophobic classmate, was exploring whether he needed a "chop-a-dick-offa'-me operation,"

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201203090007


Rush Limbaugh's Decades Of Sexism And Misogyny

Rush Limbaugh's recent barrage of sexist attacks on Sandra Fluke are being described as a "new low" for the radio host, which is a remarkable feat given Limbaugh's decades-long resume of misogynistic smears and attacks on women.

To provide a proper understanding of just how far Limbaugh has sunk, here's a worst-of list of sexist attacks from the man who recently defined "misogynist" as "a man who hates women almost as much as women hate women."

13-Year-Old Chelsea Clinton As The "White House Dog." As reported by the late columnist Molly Ivins, during an episode of his television show in the early years of the Clinton administration, Limbaugh "put up a picture of Socks, the White House cat, and asked, 'Did you know there's a White House dog?' Then he put up a picture of Chelsea Clinton, who was 13 years old at the time and as far as I know had never done any harm to anyone."

...

The "Testicle Lockbox." One of Limbaugh's (many) running attacks on Hillary Clinton is that she is in possession of a "testicle lockbox" that represents, in Limbaugh's retelling, "the worst characteristics of women ... totally controlling, not soft and cuddly. Not sympathetic. Not patient. Not understanding. Demanding, domineering, Nurse Ratched kind of thing." He boasts of having invented the concept, and deploys it whenever he perceives weakness by men (Clinton need not have any connection to the story).

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201203050015


15 Of The Worst Comments Limbaugh's Advertisers Have Sponsored Since 2004

Here are 15 of the worst things Limbaugh's advertisers have sponsored since 2004:

On June 16, 2010, Limbaugh ridiculed children who rely on school meals and said:

[T]here's always the neighborhood dumpster. Now, you might find competition with homeless people there, but there are videos that have been produced to show you how to healthfully dine and how to dumpster dive and survive until school kicks back up in August.
On January 19, 2011, after a speech by Chinese leader Hu Jintao, Limbaugh complained that the speech wasn't translated and said:

Hu Jintao was just going, "Ching cha. Ching chang cho chow. Cha Chow. Ching Cho. Chi ba ba ba. Kwo kwa kwa kee. Cha ga ga. Ching chee chay. Ching zha bo ba. Chang cha. Chang cho chi che. Cha dee. Ooooh chee bada ba. Jee jee cho ba." Nobody was translating, but that's the closest I can get.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201203060009


10 Of Limbaugh's Worst Advertiser-Sponsored Attacks On The Poor

On June 16, 2010, Limbaugh belittled children who rely on free school meals when he said:

You know, one of the benefits of school being out, in addition to your kids losing weight because they're starving to death out there because there's no school meal being provided, one of the benefits of school being out, college campi being vacant this time of year, is that our audience levels go up. I think, you know what we're going to do here, we're going to start a feature on this program: "Where to find food." For young demographics, where to find food. Now that school is out, where to find food. We can have a daily feature on this. And this will take us all the way through the summer. Where to find food. And, of course, the first will be: "Try your house." It's a thing called the refrigerator. You probably already know about it. Try looking there. There are also things in what's called the kitchen of your house called cupboards. And in those cupboards, most likely you're going to find Ding-Dongs, Twinkies, Lays ridgy potato chips, all kinds of dips and maybe a can of corn that you don't want, but it will be there. If that doesn't work, try a Happy Meal at McDonald's. You know where McDonald's is. There's the Dollar Menu at McDonald's and if they don't have Chicken McNuggets, dial 911 and ask for Obama.

There's another place if none of these options work to find food; there's always the neighborhood dumpster. Now, you might find competition with homeless people there, but there are videos that have been produced to show you how to healthfully dine and how to dumpster dive and survive until school kicks back up in August. Can you imagine the benefit we would provide people?

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201203070016


The 20 Worst Racial Attacks Limbaugh's Advertisers Have Sponsored

On June 4, 2009, a few months after Obama's inauguration, Limbaugh said "angry" minorities are going to use their newfound "power" to enact retribution:

The days of them [minorities] not having any power are over, and they are angry. And they want to use their power as a means of retribution.
On November 11, 2010, Limbaugh proposed a new leadership position for Rep. Jim Clyburn (D-SC):

Clyburn's worried about not having a car? Clyburn's worried about not having the perk of a big office? A driver? So, forth. The way this could all be worked out, Clyburn's new position: Driving Miss Nancy. He gets to keep the car. He gets to go everywhere she goes.

On January 19, 2007, Rush denounced the "insidious, ridiculous, boorish, classless behavior" in the NFL by saying:

Look it, let me put it to you this way. The NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips without any weapons. There, I said it.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201203070015


Limbaugh's Advertisers Sponsored These 10 Attacks On Unions

On May 16, 2011, Limbaugh invoked rape while discussing private sector unionization:

LIMBAUGH: Would you prefer to be unionized and -
CALLER: No sir.

LIMBAUGH: Okay, so you don't want to rape fellow citizens.
On November 7, 2011, Limbaugh said voting to repeal union-busting laws was a vote in Ohio would be a vote to "rape themselves":

"Public and private polling indicates that Ohioans, by a substantial margin, want to overturn the new law." Which means, if this is true, that people in Ohio want to rape themselves.

On August 11, 2009, Limbaugh theorized that a "union person" might go to an Obama town hall meeting "wearing a Klan uniform or carrying a swastika sign" to smear opponents of health care reform:

I just want to make an observation, because I know the tactics of ACORN and AFL-CIO and other union people. If, in the next hour, or however long this town meeting takes, if somebody breaks up the meeting, interrupts it, wearing a Klan uniform or carrying a swastika sign, it will be an ACORN person or a union person, using political jujitsu to try to make it look like opponents of Obama's health care plan are these radicals that have been described by the state-controlled media at various -- I'm not predicting it. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but if it does, know full well that it is not a genuine opponent of Obama's plan that will do this.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201203080002


Rush Limbaugh in no way compares to Bill Maher or Matt Taibbi. Rush Limbaugh needs to take his hateful, divisive rhetoric and shove it up his ass.

[One of the 99]

19. Here's an article on why Kristen Powers is wrong.

http://www.salon.com/2012/03/07/the_myth_of_left_wing_feminist_hypocrisy/singleton/

[SunsetDreams]

23. Who are you talking to?

Let me explain something to you...there are differences of opinion. A difference of opinion does not make a person "Intellectually Challenged".

[1ProudAtheist]

55. I Have No Way

of helping you or others who aren't mentally capable of distinguishing between apples and oranges..............and that is not an opinion, it is a fact.

[SunsetDreams]

60. Apparently, you have not read

my other post in this thread. It is absolutely possible to give your opinion, as many others have done in this very thread, without the personal attacks against DUers. When I pointed that out, you decided to double down.

[1ProudAtheist]

70. Once More

s-l-o-w-l-y..........it is "FACT" that one instance was an attack on all women (mysogyny), and the other was an attack on a single woman (not mysogyny). That FACT is not open to opinion, it is a FACT. Got it?

[SunsetDreams]

126. It is a fact that you are

misreading my posts. The fact is clear based on your posts. I'll not reiterate my posts to you, as it will only continue you apparently thinking you are telling me something I don't already know. I stand by my original reply to you, which was what this was about and leave it at that.

[LanternWaste]

31. Much the same way as I feel sorry for those who deny their own vulgarity

"For those who think that these are the same thing, I feel sorry for you..."

Much the same way as I feel sorry for those who deny their own vulgarity, regardless of medium or mechanism, yet vilify the vulgarity of others, regardless (again) of medium or mechanism. That in a sense, what is being said is "my vulgarity is classier that your vulgarity..." That, in effect, one is holding others to a higher standard than they hold themselves.

Vulgarity is merely vulgarity. Mean-spirited behavior at the expense of another is nothing more than mean-spirited behavior at the expense of another.

Whether we insult one person or a group of persons, we are still insulting them, and then following it up with some juicy justifications and self-righteousness to absolve ourselves of the indictment we place at the feet of others.

[1ProudAtheist]

54. Vulgarity

is not the same thing as misogyny. Check the topic of this thread...........like I said, those who are intellectually challenged........

[kestrel91316]

21. Yeah, because Bill Maher calls women "feminazis" and "sluts"

and "prostitutes" all day, every day, and has done so for years.

My bad.

[certainot]

22. limbaugh is point man for the media arm of of the 1%/GOP/corporate right. He was

alerted to go after the very impressive and accomplished Sandra Fluke as part of the GOPs war on women, tied into Darryl Issa'a misogynistic hearings on contraception.

limbaugh is the biggest PC cop and censor-by-threat the country has ever had. hannity and the rest are part of the tag team.

RW TALK RADIO IS AN UNOFFICIAL ARM OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

[backscatter712]

24. Tu Quoque!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Tu quoque ( /tuːˈkwoʊkwiː/),[1] (Latin for "you, too" or "you, also&quot or the appeal to hypocrisy, is a logical fallacy that attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting his failure to act consistently in accordance with that position; it attempts to show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it. This dismisses someone's point of view based on criticism of the person's inconsistency, and not the position presented.[2] Thus, it is a form of the ad hominem argument.[3]

...

You-too version

This form of the argument, familiar from everyday disagreements, is as follows:

A makes criticism P.
A is also guilty of P.
Therefore, P is dismissed.

Why are we talking about Maher or Taibbi? We were talking about Rush.

[MrScorpio]

108. Bingo! nt

[Iggo]

25. Aw, bless your heart.

Welcome to DU.

[Old Codger]

27. take Hint

Apples and oranges and an opinion from someone who is pretty worthless

517 views, a few replies and no recs, might tell you something....

(edited for typo)

[The Straight Story]

29. If you actually read DU you would see many don't, plus Rush Limbaugh Supported Joseph Kony

(in other words, it was not ONE thing with Rush, just the straw that broke the camel's back)

Rush Limbaugh Supported Joseph Kony…Really

....

The Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA), a marauding cult-like group in Central Africa, has been responsible for killing, wounding and kidnapping tens of thousands of people, brainwashing young boys to become soldiers and forcing young girls into sex slavery. In 2005, the International Criminal Court charged Kony with 12 counts of crimes against humanity (including murder, rape and enslavement) and 21 counts of war crimes (including murder, attacking civilians and forced recruitment of child soldiers).

But Rush Limbaugh had a problem with the Obama administration sending U.S. troops after them.

During his show on October 14, 2011, Limbaugh told his listening audience that the LRA “are Christians. It means God.”

He added that the group which has terrorized people in several countries is made up of Christians “fighting the Muslims in Sudan. And Obama has sent troops, United States troops, to remove them from the battlefield, which means kill them. So that’s a new war, a hundred troops to wipe out Christians in Sudan, Uganda.”

http://www.allgov.com/US_and_the_World/ViewNews/Rush_Limbaugh_Supported_Joseph_Kony__Really_120308

[truebrit71]

30. Your concern has been duly noted...

How much more of this false equivalency bullshit are we going to have to put up with?

[TheKentuckian]

72. Apparently, the supply is near endless

"Sensible Centrists" love the faux "fair and balanced" schtick.

[Beacool]

33. I almost posted her previous column.

But then I decided, why bother? The left somehow thinks that it's exempt from sexism.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/04/rush-limbaugh-s-apology-liberal-men-need-to-follow-suit.html

MSNBC was disgraceful during the primaries. I still refuse to watch that so called "news" network.

Also, where was the Democratic leadership in 2007-2008? Pelosi only mentioned the media's sexism after Hillary was out of the race. Dean's excuse was the he "didn't watch much television". And so on and so forth......

This is the main reason why I now support individual candidates and not the DNC.

[ProSense]

35. So

"But then I decided, why bother? The left somehow thinks that it's exempt from sexism. "

...you're slamming the "left" and posting an article that claims Limbaugh "apologized"?

Rush Limbaugh apologized on Saturday for calling a Georgetown Law student a slut for testifying about contraception and starting a firestorm of outrage. Kirsten Powers says the liberals who led the charge need to start holding their own side accountable.

After she wrote that misguided piece, Limbaugh continued to attack Fluke.

Limbaugh is a punk: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002400505

[Beacool]

37. Yeah, ignore the rest of the article.

Limbaugh is a misogynist jerk. Everyone here knows that. Now, what's the left's excuse? Forget what we say and do, just look how bad the right is?

[ProSense]

40. Actually,

"Yeah, ignore the rest of the article."

...I didn't "ignore" it, I dimissed it as misguided, in part because she claims Limbaugh apologized, but also because she did so to draw a ludicrous false equivanlency: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=404534

"Limbaugh is a misogynist jerk. Everyone here knows that. Now, what's the left's excuse? Forget what we say and do, just look how bad the right is?"

Who are you referring to here: "what's the left's excuse"?

Also, are you implying that there is someone on the left equivalent to and in the sam position as Limbaugh?

Frankly, it's pathetic that anyone would use this incident to try to distract from the outrage aimed at this cretin.

[Beacool]

43. What's pathetic is the constant excuses and white washing.

Extrapolate all you want, but she gives plenty of examples of sexism from the left that were ignored or dismissed, as you are trying to do now. THAT is why I didn't bother posting her article. I knew the reaction and excuses that would come forth.

[ProSense]

46. No one

What's pathetic is the constant excuses and white washing.

Extrapolate all you want, but she gives plenty of examples of sexism from the left that were ignored or dismissed, as you are trying to do now. THAT is why I didn't bother posting her article. I knew the reaction and excuses that would come forth.

...is making excuses except for the those trying to defend Limbaugh.

In fact, the other people being dragged out to provide cover for Limbaugh didn't spend the last week engaged in vile non-stop attacks on women.

Maher is an asshole who defended Limbaugh. Maher is also an asshole who was removed from the public airwaves.

Maybe those insisting on drawing false equivalencies could demand that Limbaugh get the same treatment as Maher.

[Beacool]

57. Still excusing the rest of them, I see.

How about Taibbi, Olbermann, Shuster and particularly that sexist creep, Chris Matthews?

[ProSense]

59. Try

"How about Taibbi, Olbermann, Shuster and particularly that sexist creep, Chris Matthews?"

...not to be completely disingenuous by creating straw men.

Your attempts to make this about other people and distract from Limbaugh's vile comments are noted.

Why aren't you demanding that Limbaugh be held accountable for a current and onging incident?

[Beacool]

61. Your political blinders are still on.

You are the one trying to ignore my point. Let me say it again, Limbaugh is a misogynist blowhard and a vile man.

That does not excuse the pundits and journalists on the left from their own sexist behavior. It also does not excuse members of the left at large for giving them a pass because they don't like the women who they are belittling.

Forget it, I have work to do and don't have any more time to waste here.

[ProSense]

62. No

Your political blinders are still on.

That does not excuse the pundits and journalists on the left from their own sexist behavior. It also does not excuse members of the left at large for giving them a pass because they don't like the women who they are belittling.

Forget it, I have work to do and don't have any more time to waste here.

...I'm the one demanding that Limbaugh be held accountable. You are the one offering up straw men.

Do you agree that Limbaugh should be removed from the public airwaves?

[joeglow3]

65. When did you demand those from the left be removed for their sexism

THAT is the point of this thread. People who pretend to give a shit about women when it benefits them and then shits all over them when there is no benefit to be had. Hillary took an ass raping from many on the left in 2008 without an ounce of push back from most on left. Multiple others have made terrible comments (again, mentioned in comments above) and the best you can come up with is "well, Rush's sexism was worse."

Bull fucking shit. Sexism is sexism and we should fight it in ALL situations and not tolerate it if it benefits us politicially.

[ProSense]

74. The point

When did you demand those from the left be removed for their sexism

THAT is the point of this thread. People who pretend to give a shit about women when it benefits them and then shits all over them when there is no benefit to be had.

...of this thread is obfuscation and an attempt to exploit the outrage against Limbaugh for personal agendas. The fact is the rest of your comment clearly illustrates why you would attempt to blame everyone else for the actions of this vile cretin.

[joeglow3]

83. And your comment clearly shows how you only care about women when it benefits you.

We can play this game all day....

[ProSense]

85. Yes

And your comment clearly shows how you only care about women when it benefits you.

We can play this game all day....

...being a woman, you're right: I care about women when it benefits women.

[joeglow3]

91. Because there has NEVER been someone who votes against their own interests

[ProSense]

92. Wait

"Because there has NEVER been someone who votes against their own interests"

...care to explain how voting for Barack Obama was voting "against" my and the interests of women?

[joeglow3]

95. Really?

That is your response? I don't care who you voted for in 2008. You willingness to accept the blatant sexism from people on the left simply because they are on the left is all the evidence.

[ProSense]

96. Yes

Really?

That is your response? I don't care who you voted for in 2008. You willingness to accept the blatant sexism from people on the left simply because they are on the left is all the evidence.

...that's my response, and clearly your previous comment was hot air. You current comment is simply another straw man...no, make that absolute nonsense.

FYI: The vile blowhard Limbaugh's days are numbered: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002406945

[Beacool]

101. Hear, hear!!!

Precisely my point. As far as I'm concerned, the left is as sexist as the right. Apparently, it's OK to say anything against a woman as long as it's one who they don't approve of, such as Hillary, Palin, etc.

The hypocrisy makes me sick.

[arely staircase]

112. you really believe "the left is as sexist as the right?" really?

it is one thing to insist that a liberal who makes sexist remarks be held accountable (though the comparison of maher to limbaugh is quite a stretch) and another all together to state that the political left is equally as sexist as the right. the latter ignores the fact that many of the right's policies are per se anti-woman. of the two major parties only one's platform calls for the repeal of Roe v Wade. care to guess which one? of the two major parties only one believes insurance companies should have to cover birth control. care to guess which one?

those two issues alone disprove any notion that "the left is as sexist as the right." and they are only two of many.

[Beacool]

118. I was referring to pundits, journalists and bloggers.

I was not referring to the parties' platforms.

[arely staircase]

120. still at odds with easily observable behavior of the two sides

are their sexist leftists? sure, just as their are non-sexist conservatives. but to equate the two general political types (conservative and liberal)in terms of their view of gender equality is to ignore, well, almost everything.

[KamaAina]

77. Tweety is indeed a sexist creep

but there is no possible way he can be considered part of the left. Same goes for Maher, come to think of it.

[DutchLiberal]

86. Oh, so now Olbermann is under the bus, too?

Why? Because he didn't agree with Hillary at some point?

This witchhunt gets more absurd every day.

[Beacool]

98. Well, he's been under my bus for a long time.

'His solution for dealing with Hillary Clinton, who he thought should drop out of the presidential race, was to find “somebody who can take her into a room and only he comes out.” '

He's a blowhard and a mirror image of O'Reilly. Can't stand either one of them.

[DutchLiberal]

113. Just by likening him to O'Reilly shows how out of touch with reality you are.

You seem to have a warped view of the world.

[Beacool]

117. Olbermann is a bombastic windbag and a bore.

That is my opinion. I must not be the only one who thinks so since he's long gone from MSNBC and is now on Gore's network.

[pintobean]

48. It was posted

Got 22 recs. You can still K/R.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002385047

[Beacool]

51. Thank you.

I missed it.

[Enrique]

42. Kristen Powers is a "Fox News Democrat"

aka a highly paid professional concern troll.

[Beacool]

45. So what?

What she said about Taibbi, Maher and the MSNBC crowd is as accurate as what many are saying about Limbaugh. They are ALL sexists, and in some cases like Limbaugh's, misogynists too.

[Enrique]

49. ok I changed my mind

it seems that Powers is the only one complaining about those comments by Maher and Taibbi. My attitude was, I'll listen when a credible feminist (i.e., not someone just protecting Rush), says something about it, but I can't find anyone other than Powers talking about them.

[Beacool]

56. Well, it has rankled many like me.

As a woman, I don't approve of sexism being used to attack other women. For example, I abhor Palin and Bachman's politics, but I seriously object to Maher calling one the "C" word and calling the other a twa*. It dehumanizes them and takes away from his possibly valid point.

It seems that as a society we are going backwards. I have no issue with anyone disagreeing with any female politician on policy. The problem is that far too often the criticism of these women is handled in purely sexist terms. What's even more disappointing is that the left is as guilty as the right. It also seems that there's a level of hypocrisy on the left. They only call out jerks like Limbaugh, but give a pass when someone on the left attacks a female politician who they don't like.

[SunsetDreams]

63. Didn't Bill Maher get suspended?

[DutchLiberal]

87. Palin and Bachmann "dehumanize" entire groups of people on a daily basis.

Why should I care when someone gives them a taste of their own medicine?

Like Maher once said: "It's not because they have breasts, but because they are boobs."

(I still crack up thinking about it, btw)

[Beacool]

102. Maher's rationale is B.S.

Maher is a sexist pig, don't excuse him. The names he called both had nothing to do with disagreement on policy, it had a lot to do with demeaning them as women. There's a big difference.

Let's say that a right wing comedian called Michelle Obama the "C" word or a twa*. Would it be acceptable for him to argue that he did so because he disagreed with her political views? No, it wouldn't. Sexism is sexism. There is NO excuse for it. I hold the left to a higher standard than the right wing.

[DutchLiberal]

115. Bill Maher has stood up for women and their causes more times than I can remember.

Seems a weird thing to do for a "sexist".

Like he said on his show this friday: "I'm a potty-mouth. That's something different than being a misogynst". The woman on the panel backed him up by pointing out that targeting one woman (Sarah Palin), like Bill did, is something different entirely than targeting all women/womenhood the way Rush Limbaugh has done. Then Bill said: "I don't understand why anybody would align themselves with Sarah Palin. And I don't get how an attack on Palin is considered an attack on all women".

And that was so spot on. He was absolutely right and I totally agree with it.

Sexism is sexism. There is NO excuse for it. I hold the left to a higher standard than the right wing.

Yeah, but like you've shown when talking about Olbermann, you constantly see "sexism" when there is none.

[Beacool]

119. It is not that he attacked Palin. It is how he attacked her.

I'm in full agreement with anyone who condemns her politics, but calling her a cun* is sexist, plain and simple.

[DutchLiberal]

127. But a one-time remark doesn't make a person a sexist or a misogynyst.

And I think Palin has said things which are far worse and I don't know why anyone would feel any sympathy for her.

[cash__whatiwant]

94. I agree

Sexism no matter if it comes from a liberal or a conservative needs to be condemned...I just think the difference is that Limbaugh advocates for policies that actually hurt women, while the opposite is true of the other 2...

[Beacool]

105. Thank you.

[Cali_Democrat]

71. +1000

Her credibility is ZERO.

[arely staircase]

114. that is a brilliant analogy

i have often noticed how the token libs and dems on fox are usually wringing their hands over how the democratic party is doing this or that wrong and will pay dearly for it. and it is usually the rare occassion when the dems stand up and fight back that the handwringing occurs.

highly paid professional concern trolls - good work.

[Morning Dew]

52. Concern noted.

Nice hit and run.

[DutchLiberal]

53. Maher and Taibbi are not misogynsts, simple as that.

[Beacool]

58. Yeah, Maher is not sexist.

Right.........

[DutchLiberal]

79. I already said that, no need to repeat it.

But I'm glad you agree with me.

[Beacool]

106. Wise guy.......

[Gormy Cuss]

64. Anyone using the phrase "professional left" isn't worth my time.

Yeah, Maher says lots of misogynistic stuff on Real Time and in his comedy. I don't excuse or condone that behavior.
If Taibbi is guilty of same, ditto. Lots of other people in media, ditto.

Neither of the above means that I don't reserve the right to call the chief Dittohead a misogynist.

[mfcorey1]

73. Bill Maher never asked a woman to make a sex tape and show it to everyone. Rush went way beyond

any place that Maher or anyone else treaded. He was just plain vulgar.

[loyalsister]

78. Speaking of that false equivalency

She points out that:
"distinguishing between a few blog posts and comments condemning left-wing misogyny and a full-scale war to remove someone from their job."

I have always cringed when I watch Bill Mahar because of his misogyny. As stated upthread - sexism is sexism.

[ProSense]

76. Here

"Kirsten Powers doubles down on Liberal misogny."

...is what the OP is defending: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002382940

Implying that anyone on the left has made excuses for anything similar to the above is simply obfuscation to cover for Limbaugh.

Have at it, but it's pathetic.

[DutchLiberal]

80. At least Maher has stood up for womens' rights repeatedly on his show.

Something that can't be said about Limbaugh and his ilk.

[Initech]

84. For the last fucking time: they are not the same by any stretch of the imagination.

The GOP is trying to get us to turn against our own and you know what? People are falling for it! Maher and Taibbi are not the spokespeople for an entire party like Limbaugh is! I'm so tired of this BS I can't stand it.

[ProSense]

88. Not only that

Maher is not on the public airwaves and Taibbi is a writer for a magazine.

The idiocy is stunning.

[Beacool]

99. Our own?

They may be your own, but they sure as heck they are not "my own".

[Initech]

103. That's it, I'm out.

I'm done defending this anymore - I just can't do it. I've tried posting this 100 times but I just can't seem to get anything past anybody. They are not the same, they never will be the same.

[Beacool]

104. Oh, come on.

Don't take it so hard.

[Initech]

110. What people don't seem to get though

Is that Maher was already punished once for things he said and lost his ABC show for it. He's admitted to the mistake (although I'm with him and despise the 9/11 truth crowd) and I don't want to see him taken off the air because we're falling for a right wing bullshit logical fallacy.

[Beacool]

116. I don't want Maher taken off the air.

But far too often he crosses the line into sexism. He can criticize anyone he wants, but why call women demeaning words? Would he call an AA the "N" word if he disagreed with that person's politics? I sincerely doubt it. Why do people who would cringe at a racist remark give a pass to an equally cringing comment about a woman?

[Sparkly]

89. "The truth hurts." Right.

And the truth is Rush Limbaugh went way, way WAY over the line.

Sorry that's so hard to accept.

[SomethingFishy]

90. Wah Wah Wah...

Lets say what she says is true.

What is she going to do about it?

Hey you don't like it? It's a free market, do your best.

All these Republican idiots are just pissed off because the "free market" and "first amendment" is coming back to bite them in the ass.

You don't like Mahr and Tiabbi, organize a boycott..

[ljm2002]

97. There is a reason people are reacting more to Limbaugh...

...and that is because he went on for days spewing malicious lies about Sandra Fluke. He used her name and went on and on and on with the lies intended to malign her character.

Other men, often comedians, do cross that line, but none that I am aware of have even come close to what Rush did.

Sometimes, a difference in degree results in a difference in kind. Name-calling and using words like "slut" and "whore" is definitely misogynistic; but including those words in the context of a days-long, lying and malicious diatribe about a woman whom one disagrees with is misogyny taken to another level that is different in kind from mere name-calling.

[AtomicKitten]

109. Maher and Taibbi make sexists remarks occasionally, but they are not misogynists.

You're thinking of Rush Limbaugh who oozes disdain for women into his golden microphone, referring to women in general as "feminazis."

[Rex]

111. Why do people feel the need to defend Rush?

How fucking pathetic.

[salin]

121. a) I have always been critical of the language described, but b)

Rush kept pushing it further than using an offensive term. He claimed that "he" was paying for their sex (it isn't a govt program and he pays nothing except for those in his own insurance pool), and then demanded that since he was paying for it (which in the case of the law student he was smearing, he wasn't) that she should post pornographic videos of her intimate contacts.

Show me where there is an equivalent to that extended argument (not just saying slut or prostitute, but demanding intimate moments for gratifying pornography.

Let's say that again. Has anyone but Rush suggested that any person should be forced to put on-line films of their most intimate moments (sex)? While I will continue to be critical of those who use derogatory words to refer to women, I don't see the equivalency. Certainly on day one there was equivalency, but when Rush went further on day two ...

Are you ready, if you have ever had sex when using birth control, to create and share publicly films of that moment? when has Maher or others being floated as the equivalent to rush suggested such a thing?

[Sheepshank]

123. So we MUST give an excused pass for Rush.......

....because someone feels the same type of rhetoric was previously done by someone else and not critisized loudly enough?

Is that the level of performance we are being asked to stoop to? The lowest common denominator?

Seriously, If there was a problem in the past I hope it was addressed then. This is now and it's coming on the tail of an onslaught of attacks from the Right on women's issues. That timing cannot be discounted and certainly has acted as a magnifying glass....and maybe history will dictate that it was time. Black people had been asked to sit in the back of the bus for a pretty long time....there came a time where "no more" was the meme of the day. This is no different.

In his arrogance, Rush stood on the coastline, held up his hand, as if he were Nero, and told the tide to stop coming in. Idiot.

Wish I could un-rec. I feel there was a reason the OP choses to post pro Rush op eds. The article is grossly inaccurate for it refuses to face the critical issue of why the back lash is occuring now in these times and previously not at the same vehement levels.

[gulliver]

124. Context is everything.

Particular words don't matter. It is how, when, and why they were said. The question is not what words were used but what was communicated. Human communication is vastly more complex than Powers would seem to think. You can't detect misogyny or racism or whatever based on mere word sifting. It has to be context-based.

In this case, the particular choice of words by Limbaugh is only part of the communication. The problem with what Limbaugh did was in the the meaning he conveyed and in the way he acted while presenting the words. Unfortunately, to the typical person this seems to lack any objective basis for judgment. That happens to be completely wrong, but that is what the typical person might think.

A computer scientist or linguist would have no trouble understanding the mathematical difference between mere words and the complexities of meaning expressible by language and the syntax of physical expression. But really anyone with any sense knows.

[tledford]

125. Two questions:

1) Who is Kirsten Powers? Never heard of her.
2) What is "the Professional Left?"