I dont get the whole ultrasound before an abortion thing

[davidn3600]

Are there any stats that such a practice even reduces abortion rates? (which I assume is the goal of such laws)

The only thing I've found is this article last year that found these laws have no effect on the decision....
http://americanindependent.com/210411/ongoing-study-shows-ultrasounds-do-not-have-direct-impact-on-abortion-decision

I mean viewing the ultrasound doesnt change the reason a woman is getting an abortion. So what's the point?

[ananda]

1. Is any policy coming from the fundie rightwing rational?

..

[Mass]

2. It is about shaming the woman. Even at a few weeks, a foetus has limbs and its heart beats.

The idea is to show that to the mother and remind her that it is a living thing (in their mind a human being).

It is indeed cruel for those women who would have liked to give birth the child if circumstances are different, and this is exactly the reason for these ultrasounds: get a few women to decide otherwise. Even if the number of women is very small, for these fundies, it is worthwhile.

[CountAllVotes]

3. Of course paying for the child after it is born ...

Well that is another story.

Who cares if the woman is broke, has no family, etc. or just plain does not want to bear a child.

If it is up to these freaks, we'll be seeing a huge population boom the likes of which have never been seen!

[Mass]

4. Of course, who cares.

On a similar note, the GOP is congratulating themselves about the Preemie Act (medical research on preemies). Of course, it is useful and good, but what about giving access to healthcare to these kids. With a GOP plan, these babies may be saved, but they will have a preexisting condition and no healthcare for quite a while.

[adavid]

21. You nailed it,...

and those GOP anti-abortion laws have a direct impact on families that are forced to have unwanted pregnancies. So, with children from "broken homes" that are raised by a single parent that struggle with school and have social problems (you know, statistics), are LEAPS AND BOUNDS more likely to choose the military as a "career option".

So the cause and effect result is,-----more Soldiers for endless wars!!!


Of course, my opinion..................

[Ilsa]

9. About 8 weeks after LMP for a 4-chambered heartbeat.

Yes, it is about shaming and misinformation about "the baby", breast cancer, etc.

It is also about putting up another expensive barrier, the cost of an ultrasound and repeat trips to the doctor.

I think if it is required by law, then it should , be paid for by the government, at a minimum.

[winter is coming]

13. +1. I've had an ultrasound at this stage in a preganancy and as a layperson, I couldn't see jack.

It looked like a blob with a twitch.

[OregonBlue]

33. You are correct. At this stage it looks like a blob with a little movement. Actually that's what it

is. It's a fetus, not a baby. This is about shaming and making it much harder for women. It's certainly not about showing a woman the baby she is aborting.

[HereSince1628]

19. Yes to demean them and yes it's to show women what's developing in utero

Forcing women to see with their own eyes, is the right's response to arguments that they and much of the public see as absurdity: the dehumanization of human reproduction.


I really wish the pro-choice movement would argue that abortion is self-defense (not only for health reasons but also against lives limited and diminished by reproductive slavery).

Self-defense seems like a workable description that encompasses how abortion is used.

Moreover, self-defense is something that even religious conservatives defend as an unalienable right.

[PeaceNikki]

30. it's also an additional cost that can be prohibitive.

[dipsydoodle]

5. Can't speak for the US

but in the UK they're used to determine well being of the fetus and sometimes the sex which is a wholly different issue

[JHB]

6. It isn't about stats, it's about screws (and tightening them)

If they cared about stats they'd support birth control, but then, that would be condoning unauthorized (they would say "illicit&quot sex. They won't (publicly) countenance that either.

The strategy is to simply eliminate legal abortion, not through outright ban but through making it so difficult to get one there is only one "choice" left. At least, until they can get enough of their people in Congress and the courts to re-enact outright bans.

Thus, the array of tactics: waiting periods, TRAP laws that over-regulate clinic operations for the purpose of driving them out of business, gauntlets of protesters, harassment of doctors (enhanced by death threats and the occasional murder), anything ANYTHING that adds more and more painful hoops to jump through is counted as a "win".

[RedCappedBandit]

7. The idiots who support it don't believe in science

why would stats matter to them?

[Tanuki]

8. Because those who advocate this are sadistic, misogynistic f*cks who want to control

women and if they can't outright prevent a woman from exercising basic autonomy, they will at least try to humiliate her, traumatize her emotionally and violate her with an ultrasound probe. Penetrating a woman's vagina with a foreign object against her will is rape, even if the rapist is wearing a white lab coat.

[mrsadm]

10. It's to force embarrasment

and intimidate the woman into thinking she is doing something wrong. Really nasty intimidation.

[mrsadm]

11. BTW I've had this untrasound

for other reasons, and it cost $1000.00

[LWolf]

12. The purpose

is to push emotional buttons on the woman's part, to induce her to feel guilt; enough to change her mind or torture herself with for the rest of her life if she doesn't.

It's got nothing to do with logic; it's an emotional weapon for the illogical.

[LuvNewcastle]

15. That's it. They want the woman to feel bad, so even if she

goes ahead with it, she'll need to see a therapist to get over the feelings she might have afterward. They're sick fucks. That's what fundy religions are for, to guilt people into doing things (or not doing things) in opposition to their reason.

[get the red out]

18. Bingo

Just a weapon to use against women.

[sibelian]

14. It's to influence the decision. Nothing else.

It's a sickly, manipulative piece of emo-wrangling. Baaaaaaaad.

[spanone]

16. it's b u l l s h i t. the point is to shame women for doing what is legal.

[myrna minx]

17. It's to add costly, invasive, unnecessary and arbitrary barriers to a woman's access to heathcare.

It's an attempt to shame and guilt a woman for her decision.

As if having to drive hundreds of miles and in some cases cross state lines, under threat of snipers and bomb makers, to be confronted by the hateful teeth gnashing religious hoards outside of the clinic isn't enough, she must have an invasive unnecessary costly procedure too.

And to some, she should be forced to feel "haunted" and shamed for the rest of her life for what they deem are her poor life choices.

[aikoaiko]

20. Seeing the heartbeat can be compelling.

[winter is coming]

22. Not so much, apparently.

From the article linked to in the OP, emphasis mine:

What the researchers have found so far is that viewing a sonogram is not an indication that a woman will cancel her scheduled procedure, regardless of what emotional response the sonogram elicits, Weitz told The American Independent. And that response can vary. Some women are happy to see the ultrasound because it makes their decision to abort more real, she said. Other women are sad to see the image, and still others have no emotional response.

[aikoaiko]

23. If I understand the research correctly, Wietz's research is based on doctor's impressions

and not number of actual procedures.

http://www.ansirh.org/_documents/research/Weitz.HastingsTalk.8.30.10.pdf

I will say this that as a would be father, see the heartbeat at 7 or 8 weeks was compelling to me.

[winter is coming]

24. Reactions vary. As a mother, it wasn't compelling to me, even though

the purpose of the procedure for me was to see if I'd miscarried a wanted child.

[aikoaiko]

25. Either way, its an attempt by the RW to be manipulative.

[winter is coming]

26. And to make things more costly and time-consuming. n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. we've found many different and innovative ways to shame women for many different decisions

thats the point

[ljm2002]

28. No, the goal is not to reduce abortion rates...

...the goals are:

1 - political grandstanding to emphasize the "pro-life" bona fides of the sponsors

2 - shaming and humiliating women who seek abortions

3 - paternalistic control of women's reproduction

4 - reinforcing the idea that women are incapable of thinking rationally

5 - reinforcing the idea that abortion is evil (*)

(*) Unless, of course, it is one of the wives / daughters / girlfriends of the politicians in question who has an unwanted or problem pregnancy -- in those cases, well, then abortions are justified because those are "special" cases as any fair minded person can see

[rdharma]

29. It shouldn't be called "ultrasound"........

It should be referred to as the "Love the Fetus, Hate the Child INVASIVE PROBE"

[arthritisR_US]

31. It is to instilled guilt. Forcing a bond with the "child"

increases the guilt a 100 fold.

[MountainLaurel]

32. They want to punish women

By making them go through an unnecessary medical procedure, which, with the transvaginal ultrasounds, is quite akin to rape.

[Gothmog]

36. Doonesbury got pulled for calling this procedure rape

Last year the Doonesbury strip had a great series on the Texas law where the procedure was called rape and some papers refuse to run that strip. http://womensissues.about.com/b/2012/03/14/doonesbury-comic-strip-lampoons-invasive-texas-sonogram-law.htm

Monday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/12
Tuesday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/13
Wednesday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/14
Thursday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/15
Friday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/16
Saturday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/17

[Hekate]

41. I applauded that wonderful series; not surprised some papers pulled it though.

Doonesbury is the greatest.

[rock]

34. The repiggies are stupid

I could go on.

[Gothmog]

35. Here are links to the Doonesbury cartoons on the Texas ultrasound law

Doonesbury did a great job on the real reasons for this law. http://womensissues.about.com/b/2012/03/14/doonesbury-comic-strip-lampoons-invasive-texas-sonogram-law.htm

Here are links to all of the cartoon strips on the Texas law

Monday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/12
Tuesday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/13
Wednesday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/14
Thursday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/15
Friday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/16
Saturday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/17

[Le Taz Hot]

37. It's state-sanctioned legalized rape.

The end.

[MH1]

38. Just another barrier and punishment, that is all.

I think it's even irrelevant whether it deters abortion when a woman chooses go through the process including the ultrasound where it is required.

It adds cost to the procedure and therefore probably prevents some women from doing it. Certainly, organizations that fund abortions for women who can't afford it, will be able to fund fewer.

The point is that it is an invalid requirement with no medical function, and the sole function is simply to reduce the number of abortions while not in any way addressing the cause of unwanted pregnancies or the consequence to a woman carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term.

[JoePhilly]

39. It's an obstacle, forces a delay, creates

added pressure.

[Hekate]

40. What a package: Shame, simulated rape, and expense.

Doonesbury did a series on it awhile ago in which a politician stands by as the ultrasound is done in "The Shaming Room."

[rustydog]

42. Easy: it is the "small government" Republicans

insisting on climbing in to the vagina of every woman in America while insisting we have to stop government's overreaching.