Is Homeland Security tracking everyone in Seattle?

[Savannahmann]

That would seem to be the case from this news report.

http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/video-seattle-cops-can-monitor-your-every-move/vCHnd8/

But despite the fact that the network is up, and operational, nobody is watching it says the Seattle PD. And we all know that if you can't trust a cop, who can you trust?

Link to the story on The Stranger. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/you-are-a-rogue-device/Content?oid=18143845

Why is our Government run by our party approving this 1984 crap? Don't give me public safety and response to terror incidents. That's all bullshit. We called it bullshit when Bush had the Fascist 2.0 movement in charge of Homeland Security, and it's still bullshit now.

Why are we doing the legwork on the Rethug oppressive spying nonsense? Sorry if this is not as eloquent as I usually post but I am really getting sick and tired of opening my email every week and finding out that our country is doing stuff like this.

[MineralMan]

1. They wouldn't be tracking me.

I carry no wireless devices with me unless they are shut down. If I need to make a call, I stop and turn on my cell phone. When I'm done with that call, I turn it off. Nobody has my cell number except my wife, and she knows that the phone is off. I check it occasionally for voice mails, and that's it.

If you're carrying a cell phone that is on, someone does know where you are, tracking system or not. Your service provider knows where your phone is.

Will this technology be used to track people? Probably, if there's a reason to do so. Otherwise, it's a latent system. We should all be aware of such latency. It's all around us.

[tina tron]

3. Even Powering Down A Cell Phone Can't Keep The NSA From Tracking Its Location

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130723/12395923907/

[MineralMan]

4. I don't care. The NSA is not interested in me in any way.

Even though I once worked in their main building at Ft. Meade, many years ago, the NSA does not give a crap about anything I do.

They don't care about what you do, either.

[tina tron]

5. But you said that they can't track you

because you turn off your phone. Clearly implying that you do care.

[MineralMan]

7. Actually, they probably could track me.

The NSA and other agencies' capabilities are, and have been, extraordinary. If they are interested in someone's doings, they can examine them, I'm quite certain.

My cell phone is off for my convenience only. I don't like being interrupted by phone calls. If you call me, you'll get my voice mail, which I will listen to at my convenience. If you text me, I probably won't see that at all. I ignore all texts sent to me completely. If you email me, whether I see your email or not depends on whether we have some reason to communicate with each other. Odds are that we do not, so your email will end up in my spam filter, which is set to accept all emails not from senders known to me. I clear it once a day after scanning the senders to be sure someone I want to hear from has not somehow ended up there. That happens maybe twice a year.

Nobody wants to track my movements. They are incredibly boring. I am the only one interested in them, and my concern is that my privacy not be interrupted by phone calls and texts. Beyond that, nobody cares what I do. I can't imagine why anyone would be interested in the first place.

I post on DU. My real life identity is not a secret here, either. Nothing I post here is likely to cause anyone in authority to be interested in me, either. So, I don't care, as I said.

[Demo_Chris]

16. Yes they are interested in you....

They are more interested in you than your best friend or children or spouse. They want to know EVERYTHING about you. They already know more about you than you know about yourself. And they want to know more even than that.

They know what key words are most likely to inspire a response of some kind. They know how fast you scroll your IE windows, and which images made you pause. You think you prefer blondes, but the NSA knows better. You like red heads 6% more. And astonishingly, you are three times as likely to open or REC a thread with one of the "militant identifier watch words" in the title. You have a PATTERN that you are not even aware of, but the computer knows it and has it databased. Every facet of your life, from the time you rise and how long you shower, to when you leave for work and the route you take, when you go on lunch and when you leave work to do so, when you leave work for home, every purchase you made on your credit card, when you turn on your computer, every website you visit and for how many microseconds, every pause, every goodle search and youtube video, every word you type whether you hit enter or not... it's all there being recorded and GRADED.

And they want to do more, they want to know more. You are already a suspect, you have always been a suspect, and they are watching.

[MineralMan]

17. No, that is you, not me.

You are confused, it seems...

[Rex]

2. We might not be a police state, but we are turning into a surveillance state.

And fuck any Constitution that gets in the way of the authoritarians, they despise individual privacy.

[MineralMan]

6. Everyone is surveilling these days, it seems.

I doubt that's likely to change anytime soon. We all carry tracking devices around with us these days. Combined with cameras everywhere, privacy is history. And it's not just government that's doing it. In fact, business interests are more interested in what we all do than the government is, frankly.

That is not going to change. As much as we might wish it to go away, there's not a chance in Hell of that.

The answer to that reality? I don't know. Not being in any way interesting to those who are interested seems the best approach to me. So, that's what I do.

[Rex]

8. I just have a real problem with the govt wanting to turn into 1984.

Private corporations, not so much. You can sue them and likely win. If people have no problems with America turning into 1984, then we are in a lot of trouble. Thankfully, I think most Americans don't want their govt spying on them. Sadly, I don't think anything will change the path we chose after 9/11.

[MineralMan]

10. I didn't say I liked it. I said that I didn't think there was a damn

thing we can do to change it. I look at the cost and complexity of tracking the population of the United States, and know that those things make it completely impractical to target any but the most interesting people. So, I'm not interesting, in any sort of legal terms.

We've long ago passed the point of no return when it comes to surveillance. We have accepted the role of devices that can be tracked in our lives, and we're going to hang onto them. Since we've made that decision, we've moved beyond backing up.

I work to change what can be changed. I have no time for what cannot be changed, and that's one of them, IMO.

In any case, if they're tracking everyone, they're doing a piss-poor job of it. They don't seem to be able to prevent anything bad from happening, as we see in the news on a daily basis.

[Rex]

11. I didn't say you had to like or dislike it, just my opinion on the topic.

And no you don't have to waste billions of dollars to track all the people all the time...that is what you have google and yahoo index for. Really, we made it too easy (corporations) for govt to track every little thing we do.

Understand, it has NOTHING to do with you or me or national security and everything to do with unfettered power and unfettered access. As a IT manager, I can understand wanting no firewalls between me and what I am monitoring.

I guess you should worry about those things that are important to you and I will worry about the things that are important to me.

[Savannahmann]

12. There is a big difference if you haven't figured it out.

Let's say Google is tracking me, which they are. Then what do they do with that information? They try and target advertisers based upon where I am and what I am doing. The effect on my life? I get some ads that are targeted, theoretically to what I am interested in. But am I in anyway compelled to buy those items? Truthfully I never click on the ads, ever. So what is happening in reality? Google is making money from idiots who are trying to sell me stuff that although I might be interested in, my interest is shot when I see the targeted ad. So it's money wasted on their part.

What does the NSA do with the information? They catalog it, they save it, the compartmentalize it. If this administration is doing it in Seattle, which is safely left wing, the question is why? Is it because the people there would be more willing to accept technology? Or is it because the people there are generally speaking, reliably left? What do we Liberals tend to do? Well, we vote, we donate to causes and ideals, and we protest. The Political masters want our donations, so it isn't to track us because we are donating to them or groups and organizations that support them. We vote, and they need our votes to stay in office, and to get the majority, so it isn't to track us for voting purposes.

We protest. We support the OWS, we support the ban on nuclear weapons, we object to the use of Depleted Uranium, we object to bombing the crap out of Puerto Rico every time the navy sets sail. We protest to stop the ELF transmissions from Michigan, we try and stop the ear busting sonar from Submarines that damage the hearing of sea life.

We protest, and they don't like that. http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Windows-smashed-as-May-Day-protests-wind-through-Downtown-Seattle-149713705.html

We object to the absolute power of the police. They don't like that. http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2013/10/protesters-burn-flag-march-on-seattles-capitol-hill-to-protest-police-brutality/

So you tell me what is the bigger threat? Google tracking me or the NSA? Google is going to try and make money off of me, and since we bought a couple shares of Google stock, I make money off of the idiots trying to sell me shit I wouldn't buy through those ads if there was an included oral favor for clicking it.

Or the NSA/Police/CIA/FBI/DHS hegemony that is tracking everything, and identifying those of us who object to their omnipotent powers?

Who has the power to put me on watch lists and make travel difficult? Google and the advertisers or the Hegemony? Who has the power to affect my employment by denying me clearances to do a blue collar job? Google can't do shit about that, but the Hegemony can. I don't like the tracking by advertisers, and I respond by blocking as much of it as I can, scramming it from my computer, and making it more difficult with my cellphone. What can I do besides move into a shack like the Unibomber and go off the grid to get the fucking NSA/CIA/FBI/LEO/DHS hegemony out of my rectal cavity? Even then they'd find and watch me because in that instance I would be all anti-social and fit the profile from some deskbound douchebag of a threat.

There is one other big difference, Google doesn't have the 4th Amendment telling them not to do this shit.

[MineralMan]

13. As I said, there is the potential for abuse in any such surveillance

by the government. What is the likelihood of it interfering with your life? Very small, indeed.

However, if it is worrisome for you, I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions. I suppose you could join some group that was planning to raise a legal issue that would eventually make it to the Supreme court, but I don't know of such a planned case.

Are you on a restricted travel list? Probably not. Are you likely to be? Probably not. Frankly, public posts in places like DU would be far more likely to get you on such a list than anything else. Certainly DU's database is open to public scrutiny, and so is not protected against the government collecting every post made here and analyzing it. Everyone who posts here voluntarily puts their posts in a public area that can be viewed and searched by anyone.

I have no doubt that the real life identities of everyone posting here are easily discovered if some government agency wished to do so. That they don't seem all that interested would indicate to me that they're not that interested.

Is the potential for abuse there? Absolutely it is. What are we do do about it? I can't think of anything. Can people in Seattle get this wi-fi tracking system removed? Highly unlikely. More likely is that similar systems will be installed in most major cities. It appears that DHS is interested in seeing that happen. To what end, I do not know. It is not one of my major personal concerns.

[NightWatcher]

9. they're so busy tracking mom going to the market that they'll miss John Q Terrorist

going to do something naughty.

They don't want to find bad guys, they want to track everything. They want one day to have a real time flowing stream of what everyone is doing and where everyone is going so that they can sell it to advertisers and help the police find you for petty shit

[liberal_at_heart]

14. This will be used to try and prevent future May day protests. Last year they detained a couple

for four months who might have known people who attended May day but they themselves were no where near the May day protests.

[Savannahmann]

18. Ah yes.

The old intimidate by holding them for "withholding evidence" claim. Gotta love the intimidation.

[MineralMan]

15. Want to learn more about this technology?

Click this link:

http://www.meshdynamics.com/

This appears to be the leader in mesh WiFi communications technology. Lots of pages to study and press accounts of implementations.

It appears to be more oriented toward communications by agencies than toward spying on the public. It sets up a web of WiFi routers, installed at every intersection in an urban area. That "mesh" allows dropout-free communications for emergency responders. The system offers broadband communication to mobile systems without the drop-out problem that line-of-sight systems have.

It's an interesting website about some interesting new technology. It could also be used to set up a WiFi infrastructure for public use, as well. I don't think that's what Seattle has in mind, though. I think they're installing it for emergency responder communications.

Could it be used to track someone and their cellphone? I don't know, but nothing like that is mentioned in the literature at that site. It's all about communications that can't be interrupted by dead zones.

Wikipedia has an article about mesh networking in general, too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_networking

Have fun.