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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEsquire Magazine Article: Eric Holder's defense of assassinations "is a monumental pile of crap"
How We Can Help President Obama Today
By Charles P. Pierce
March 8, 2012
We can help President Obama today by explaining as LOUDLY as we can that he shouldn't lead this country so far into the quagmire of extrajudicial killing that it never finds its way out again.
Attorney General Eric Holder's appearance at Northwestern on Monday, during which he explained the exact circumstances under which the president can order the killing of just about anyone the president wants to kill, was not promising. The criteria for when a president can unilaterally decide to kill somebody is completely full of holes, regardless of what the government's pet lawyers say. And this...
"This is an indicator of our times," Holder said, "not a departure from our laws and our values."
...is a monumental pile of crap that should embarrass every Democrat who ever said an unkind word about John Yoo. This policy is a vast departure from our laws and an interplanetary probe away from our values. The president should not have this power because the Constitution, which was written by smarter people than, say, Benjamin Wittes, knew full and goddamn well why the president shouldn't have this power. If you give the president the power to kill without due process, or without demonstrable probable cause, he inevitably will do so. And, as a lot of us asked during the Bush years, if you give this power to President George Bush, will you also give it to President Hillary Clinton and, if you give this power to President Barack Obama, will you also give it to President Rick Santorum?
You want some help, Mr. President? Keep the country from sinking further into this lawless abyss.
Read the full article at:
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/eric-holder-drone-speech-7124146
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)was the internment of Japanese-Americans in camps.
From conversations with intelligent liberals who lived through WWII, I know that the internments were justified on the ground that the Japanese-Americans were loyal to Japan not to the US -- or at least some of them were -- or might have been.
FDR chose to respond to fear. He chose to take expedient measures. And he seriously marred his legacy and the proud history of human rights in our country because of that choice.
President Obama has made a similarly flawed, fearful, expedient choice. His legacy will be marred also.
Yes. The threat of Al-Awalaki is gone.
But, although I do not know, I find it hard to believe that Al-Awalaki was alone, sitting in the wilderness of Yemen plotting against us. The President rid the world of Al-Awalaki, but, assuming that Al-Awalaki was the dangerous terrorist that we are told he was, he was probably not alone. His followers are probably still out there posing a serious threat to us.
How long will it be before some crazy, admirer of Al-Awalaki (sorry if I am misspelling his name. I don't know that much about him, but I do know how these things work based on the history of similar events.) comes along and wants to show what a macho he is -- and does something even worse than whatever it was Al-Awalaki was planning?
This type of killing was a foolish act. If you are going to wage a war, go in and wage the war and finish the job. Don't take half-measures. Be thorough, not expedient. If Yemen harbors terrorists, that is a big problem that needs to be attended to. In addition to violating our Constitution, just taking out a random supposed leader who happens to be an American citizen and protected by our Bill of Rights now and then is not the answer.
Roosevelt did not want to take the time to determine which, if any, of the individual Japanese citizens really did pose a threat the US. His failure to attend to that detail resulted in an ugly scar on our history.
The Constitution is very clear on the rights of any person accused of a crime including treason. Complying with the requirements of the Constitution is not only morally correct but also good strategy.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Obama didn't initiate the laws.
President Bill Clinton lifted the ban on CIA assassinations in 1998, but limited their use to specific targets, such as Osama bin Laden, and only if capture was not feasible. George W. Bush dropped the feasible limitation and eliminated the need for a specified list of targets. The first CIA drone killing took place in Yemen on November 5, 2002, and included the death of an American citizen, Buffalo-born Kamal Derwish.
http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNews/Obamas_Secret_Assassination_Program_111229
Holder reiterated the administration's position related to those engaged in terrorists activities, and clarified his reasoning. There is no legal argument against targeting people engaged in terrorism on on the battlefield.
Human Rights Watch, 2003:
The line between war and law enforcement gained importance as the U.S. government extended its military efforts against terrorism outside of Afghanistan and Pakistan. In November, the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency used a missile to kill Qaid Salim Sinan al-Harethi, an alleged senior al-Qaeda official, and five companions as they were driving in a remote and lawless area of Yemen controlled by tribal chiefs. Washington accused al-Harethi of masterminding the October 2000 bombing of the U.S.S. Cole which had killed seventeen sailors. Based on the limited information available, Human Rights Watch did not criticize the attack on al-Harethi as an extra-judicial execution because his alleged al-Qaeda role arguably made him a combatant, the government apparently lacked control over the area in question, and there evidently was no reasonable law enforcement alternative. Indeed, eighteen Yemeni soldiers had reportedly been killed in a prior attempt to arrest al-Harethi. However, the U.S. government made no public effort to justify this use of its war powers or to articulate the legal limits to such powers. It is Human Rights Watch's position that even someone who might be classified as an enemy combatant should not be subject to military attack when reasonable law enforcement means are available. The failure to respect this principle would risk creating a huge loophole in due process protections worldwide. It would leave everyone open to being summarily killed anyplace in the world upon the unilateral determination by the United States (or, as the approach is inevitably emulated, by any other government) that he or she is an enemy combatant.
- more -
http://www.hrw.org/legacy/wr2k3/introduction.html
The administration didn't redefine the role of a "combatant."
The human rights organizations are seeking transparency about the process for making the determination. That is why the ACLU continues to state the administration is simply saying "trust us."
The ACLU has filed a lawsuit to enforce its Freedom of Information Act lawsuit seeking information about the targeted killing program, but the Justice Department and the CIA have responded to the request by saying they can neither confirm nor deny the existence of any records.
The government has told the courts that its targeted killing program is so secret that even its existence cant be acknowledged, but that proposition can no longer be taken seriously. If the attorney general can discuss the targeted killing program at a law school, then the administration can surely release the legal memos it uses to justify its claimed killing authority, and also defend its legal justifications in court, Shamsi said. The targeted killing program raises profound legal and moral questions that should be subjected to public debate, and constitutional questions that should be considered by the judiciary.
http://www.aclu.org/national-security/aclu-comment-eric-holder-speech-targeted-killing-program
Human Rights Firsts:
Washington, DC Human Rights First today praised Attorney General Eric Holders planned speech at Northwestern University School of Law to address among other topics targeting killings, but cautioned that failure to address critical questions about the Obama Administrations targeted killing strategy will perpetuate concerns about its legitimacy.
The Obama Administrations policy on targeted killings will not be seen as legitimate until the Administration makes clear which groups it believes were at war with and how it defines who is a legitimate target for killing as part of the U.S. war strategy, said Human Rights Firsts Daphne Eviatar.
The 2001 Authorization for the Use of Military Force allowed the U.S. military to wage war against those nations, organizations, or persons who the president determined planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons.
Osama bin Laden is dead and al Qaeda has been decimated and driven from Afghanistan. If the United States is expanding the list of targetable groups and individuals beyond those who were responsible for the 9/11 attacks, it needs to make that clear, and to provide a justification for why such attacks are lawful, said Eviatar. So far it has failed to do that. Today, the Attorney General has the opportunity to do just that.
According to Human Rights First, as a first step, the administration should release the legal opinion authorizing the targeted killing of Anwar al-Awlaki, the U.S. citizen killed by a drone strike in Yemen last year. Awlaki was never charged, tried or even arrested by law enforcement authorities on suspicion of participating in terrorism. It remains unclear what legal authority the Administration relied upon in killing him.
Separately from targeted killings, Attorney General Holder is expected to speak about President Obamas recent Policy Directive issued last week that limits certain aspects of the National Defense Authorization Act, which mandated military custody for terrorism suspects. Human Rights First supports that directive because it believes the NDAAs mandatory military custody provision would have foolishly limited the Administrations ability to use its law enforcement capabilities to respond effectively to terrorist threats.
Forcing terrorism suspects into military custody makes no sense when our law enforcement professionals have capably handled terrorism cases for well over a decade, added Eviatar.
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/2012/03/05/holder-speech-should-clarify-targeted-killing-strategy/
Occulus
(20,599 posts)Got anything relevant?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)My point is that if the threat from Yemen is so great that we have to assassinate a terrorist there with a drone, we should simply declare war, go in and rout the terrorists. Then the use of drones would be appropriate within a theater of war.
I know this sounds legalistic. But abandoning legal form is a very dangerous thing to do. At this point, Obama was acting against an American citizen without affording due process.
In this case, the Obama administration made an arbitrary decision without a public trial, without declaring war. It is extra-judicial. Holder admitted that. He must know very well that the whole point of the Constitution is to establish a separation of powers. This decision bypassed the Constitution not only because it denied this man, regardless of how guilty of a crime he was, of his due process but also because it bypassed the fundamental premise of the Constitution. The Constitution was specifically established to prohibit extra-judicial, extra-constitutional actions of this sort.
That the Supreme Court appears to have OK'd a specific law under specific circumstances of a case is irrelevant. The Supreme Court decides specific cases based on specific facts.
And, remember, our Supreme Court has had to admit that it was wrong about a lot of things in the past. The trend, the movement across the globe is to demand more respect for human rights.
We should not be bucking that trend, since we were among the first to set it going.
I point out that FDR also erred by denying people their inalienable rights.
Now that I learn that this man is not the first terrorist to be working out of Yemen, I really question why we have not declared war or why we are not opening cooperating with the Yemeni government to protect ourselves against the threat? Why can't we just be forthright about the need to take military action there?
ProSense
(116,464 posts)...like that idea: starting a war just to go after a terrorist. There are defined areas of conflict, but again, that is what the human rights organizations are asking.
On edit: You would have wanted Clinton to start a war to go after bin Laden?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)(and Obama is not the first to do this) without due process as a part of his constitutional powers as commander in chief. Neither he nor any other president, past or present, has or has had the power to do that simply because he is president.
He is the commander in chief only over the military, and only Congress has the authority to declare war under the Constitution. Therefore, if a president wants to assassinate someone and rely on his authority as commander in chief, he really needs to get a declaration of war from Congress for the particular area of the world in which he wants to assassinate someone.
What is the purpose of the separation of powers and three branches of government established in our Constitution if our presidents claim the authority to assassinate people anywhere in the world without following proper procedures and lines of authority. This kind of action is more consistent with a dictatorship than with our constitutional government. And that was true when other presidents did it beginning at the very least with Eisenhower in Iran.
Eisenhower is alleged to have ordered the ouster and to have approved the assassination of the Iranian president in the 1950s. Nixon is alleged to have approved the assassination of Allende in the 1970s (although I do not believe that he directly ordered the act). Those assassinations are not the only ones, and in general these assassinations have ended in worsening our situation in the world, not improving it. The wisdom of those who wrote the Constitution should be respected. This kind of lone wolf action does not demonstrate the respect they deserve.
Robb
(39,665 posts)If so many people asked that question, surely there's a link. Somewhere.
Surely.
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)his weekly appearances on her show after this one...
But still, K&R.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Don't you know that 9/11 changed everything? You've got to trim your ideals to fit this year's fashion! Simply everyone is doing it, and it's the chic accessory for Today's Modern Political Wonk on the Go: A trimmed down, slimmed down version of that quaint old document, the Constitution. Gone are the frilly and superfluous "due process" and "speedy trial" clauses, and those bulky evidence and procedural requirements that just got in the way. This is so much neater, cleaner, and more efficient! Get with the times or get under the bus, Charlie.
frylock
(34,825 posts)gratuitous
(82,849 posts)I wasn't being sensible.
Better Believe It
(18,630 posts)Perhaps after the election we may be able to support the Constitution including due process .... or maybe not.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)Better Believe It
(18,630 posts)Eric Holder's Shameful Defense of Assassinating U.S. Citizens
By Matthew Rothschild
Editor of The Progressive Magazine
March 7, 2012
Listen to the podcast of his commentary at:
http://www.progressive.org/mp3/20120307progressiveradio.mp3
Leopolds Ghost
(12,875 posts)Secretary of State on Ghadafi