General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs America comprised of 11 regionally separate nations?
Writing in the Tufts University Alumni magazine, journalist Colin Woodard offers up the notion that America is comprised of 11 geographically distinct "nations", and argues that working from this presupposition helps us understand why America is what it is, does what it does, and in particular, why it has such a vibrant, complicated and diverse relationship with violence.
As a longtime Canadian friend of DU, I offer it up for consideration, and possibly discussion.
http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/fall2013/features/up-in-arms.html
(The basic thesis is that the U.S. can be best understood as a set of separate nations, each with its own ethnography, history and political and moral character and tendencies. In particular, each has a set of views towards violence as a political and social tool. The borders of these nations do not perfectly align with U.S. state borders, though the nations are regionally distinct. Nor do all the citizens of each nation share the full general opinion set of their nation (any more than is the case for better recognized nations). But the rates for pro- and anti-gun sentiment, support for capital punishment, willingness to cede individual power for the common good and a number of other politically important traits are distinctly different and essentially consistent with those of the different founding colonists, says Woodard. Of the 11 American nations, he feels, the views of two Yankeedom and Deep South are particularly influential and polar opposite on many issues. I note for those who care that this article is written by a journalist, not a professional historian, and there is no indication that the article has been peer reviewed, so you're all on your own. I found it to be thought provoking, and suspect that my understanding of my own country would probably be enhanced if viewed using a similar analytic lens.)
- b
Link here, text, maps etc follow
http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/fall2013/features/up-in-arms.html
gopiscrap
(23,765 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)The name suggests that we are a collection of different places.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Does that include everything in between, too? I wonder how Canada would feel about that? Why doesn't the Far West just cede us to the Yukon Territory? I'd be fine with that.
politicat
(9,808 posts)The reason it's not with Yukon (Nunavut) is because the dominant culture in Yukon is First Nations, not European descent and that makes a big difference in how the culture works. Also, Far West was essentially founded as a government-corporate partnership, rather than an organic migration (as happened in the late 18th and early 19th centuries from the East Coast to the Midwestern states). The west got settled by the railroads; those Alaskan cities by the gold rush. That's not so true for Edmonton, Calgary and Vancouver.
Culturally, the fact that both government and corporations essentially mined the western states (for land, water, minerals, range) while investing very little that didn't directly serve the government-corporate interest made a lot of the early settlers very suspicious of both entities. That still shows in our politics -- we're much more libertarian than neo-con when we're conservative, and much more invested in community solidarity against outside interests. And yet,we have a grudging allegiance to the corporate interests who were the source of initial capital and the conduit for goods (think railroad towns) and the governmental interests who supplied homestead, range and mining claims as well as water projects. It's a complicated relationship with a lot of tensions and disgruntlement.
I've never lived in Alaska, but within the structure of his thesis, and given the history I know, Anchorage/Fairbanks started out as mining towns, and the earliest non-Native settlers were either following the gold or service providers for those following gold. Unlike Cascadia (PAC NW) where the early settlers were primarily displaced New Englanders looking to recreate New England society someplace with more land and less harsh winters.
I'm not 100% convinced by Woodward's arguments (I think he puts too much faith in originating settlements and doesn't allow nearly enough credence for continuing migration) but he has a solid thesis that works more often than not. As social psychology, it reads like a solid hypothesis, and in my experience (as a military, Third Culture kid who lived in most of the regions) the social strategies track. I do recommend the book. If nothing else, it really helps me deal with my family on their most functional terms. (They're Midlanders whose territory is shifting towards Greater Appalachia and one of whom migrated to El Norte. I'm Third Culture, but I most strongly identify as a Norteño, where I lived in my teen years, and now live in the Far West-Norteño borderlands.)
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I guess what we call "the Railbelt," i.e. the part of Alaska that's on the road system (Valdez to Fairbanks, Homer/Seward to Fairbanks) and the corridor along the Haul Road up to Prudhoe is most definitely Far West because of the corporate interests you talk about, but the rest of the state would have to be First Nations to encompass all the Native villages. Unalaska/Dutch Harbor, Dillingham, Kodiak are hybrid, being fishing towns but with large Native populations.
Maybe Alaska could just be its own entity since as a state we don't fit neatly into any of those categories.
politicat
(9,808 posts)Especially places where two or more cultures regularly interact or coexist. The resulting culture will share attributes with both, and will make some locally defined workarounds and hacks.
The thing with all cultures is they operate at a below-conscious level for most people. Things like flocking and cueing patterns are massively regional and highly subliminal, but they do affect a person deeply and regularly.
Woodward defines nations, but he is also careful to admit that there are subunits within those groups.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)as long as we don't starting warring with each other ala "Revolution."
politicat
(9,808 posts)Dark joke, but I live on a county border, where Weld Co (one of Colorado's potentially successionist counties) meets up with a Yankee settlement in Boulder County and another county that's highly liminal (El Norte-Far West). If secession ever succeeds (hope not) then my backyard will be the front line -- and that secession will be tetchy and eventually violent, as the water becomes a bigger issue.
I haven't seen Revolution yet, but breaking into the nations would hurt a lot.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)but my daughter who knows someone involved with producing the series convinced me to watch again this year, and it's sucked me in, as improbable as it all is.
The part that's relevant to this discussion, though, is that after the power grid goes down, America splits into factions kind of like we're talking about, with militias and outlaw bands, etc., little skirmishes going on all the time. Now the "patriots" who are trying to recreate the old United States have come on the scene, using all the patriotic tools, water boarding, surveillance, etc. It kind of tickles me that the patriots have turned out to be the bad guys, and our heroes are the resistance.
It's a guilty pleasure of mine. Totally silly, but it has gotten me thinking about what it would be like if the US broke apart.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)right now wisconsin is a toss up.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)I just downloaded it. - b
shraby
(21,946 posts)to hop-scotch all over the place and always have. i.e. the great migration west of multitudes in the 1800s, the migrations of people during the great depression, the migration of northerners to the southern states after retirement, and even today, the movement of people as they lost their homes, jobs and belongings in this great recession.
Americans always have been a mobile bunch. That was a key signature of the people who moved here and created the original colonies.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)politicat
(9,808 posts)I agree that the 20th century migrations are important factors, but foundational populations do set the tone for the future community, regardless of the later migrations.
And more importantly, the influxes of later migrants is one of the factors in community conflicts down the road, or in not having community conflicts. I see a lot of Greater Appalachia against Norteño in Maricopa county, AZ, where a significant percent of the European-descended population are 1st generation migrants from the Midwest or Deseret descendants of Midlander-Greater Appalachia-Yankeedom with their own spin. I'd say one of the big reasons that Tucson seems more functional than the Valley is because Tucson's foundational Norteño culture has survived better, while the Valley failed to establish a dominant foundational culture. (Despite the century-long occupation.)
Rstrstx
(1,399 posts)But I'm partial to the town for some reason, it's hard to put my finger on it but I love it. I don't get a tense vibe when I'm there, the area is relaxed and seems to embrace its environs and peoples instead of fighting them. Then again I love it that you can be in "Colorado" (or Mexico) in 40 minutes or take the drive down through Sonora very easily straight to the gorgeous dry-tropical coast around San Carlos in about 5-6 hours. Just thinking about it makes me want to start planning a quick winter trip there.
And yes, many parts of the country have areas that don't migrate. Arcadia is a prime example
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)there are pretty well-traceable large migration groups. The people who came to the original colonies came from different parts of Britain, and for different reasons. The cultural differences of those early colonists are observable in American regional cultures today. And for most of American history people didn't move around much; mobility in the sense of frequent moves is something that's only happened in the 20th century, with cars and air travel.
And those people who migrated during the Great Depression? All those retirees in Florida? People take their culture with them; why do you think South Florida is no longer culturally "Southern"? Why do you think Bakersfield is an outpost of shitkicking redneckism?
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
devils chaplain
(602 posts)The map rings true as someone who lives at the junction of three "nations."
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Yes indeed!
Solly Mack
(90,790 posts)Interesting. Thanks for posting!
Bragi
(7,650 posts)I'm finding it hard to see some of the similarities between the Canada-US sides of the divide. For example, the map suggests that the Midlands nation takes in a huge swath of land from Toronto to Iowa. I don't see the affinities throughout this area, actually. But I do think this exercise gives us a new and useful way of trying to understand the continent, and the dominant views in the various areas. - B
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Highly recommended. Will not say more. At least not here.
joshcryer
(62,277 posts)If only for the discussion it garnered. Commenting for later.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)he seems to mostly be basing this on David Hackett Fisher's "Albion's Seed" with some further development.
Rstrstx
(1,399 posts)I'd say it's sort of accurate but most of the area is very distinct from the Southern California area, which is included but could well be considered a mini-nation all its own. But places like Nogales, though certainly different in topography, certainly feels closer to home than, say, San Diego or Fort Worth or the Great Red North of Texas.
The author is accurate about this area having a history of breaking off; the Republic of the Rio Grande is probably the best example of that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_the_Rio_Grande
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I think it's limited both in scope and in notion.
The Gulf coast region of the south, from Galveston all the way to Panama City, FL, is indeed a separate and unique entity. It's still distinctly southern, but is probably less like the "Deep South" than most of the "Far West" is.
While the region is indeed strongly influenced by old French tradition, there are two different kinds of French tradition in the region - the "common" French of the Acadian immigrants from Quebec, and the "Aristocratic" French of New Orleans, Bilouxi, and Mobile. These mingled with a lot of Appalachian immigrants - seriously, most white people in the gulf region trace their roots to the midlands, rather than to the bulk of the "deep south" and while still racist, the culture there was more accepting of blacks than the more northern parts of the south (probably owing to the cultural differences between agricultural and industrial societies.) The result is a narrow strip of territory that, while still "southern" is still culturally distinct - its food, its humor, its music, and even to some degree its language.
The bulk of Florida, however, is Deep South, though the Keys are more like the Gulf region than the rest of Florida.
Classing Anchorage and Fairbanks as part of the Far West seems spot-on. The Prince William Sound are and panhandle are more like an autonomous region claimed by both the Far West and by the Left Coast, though.
LuvNewcastle
(16,860 posts)People assume we're just like the rest of the South, but we have our own culture and I think it's much nicer.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)We aren't libertarian in the least - not at the level of Colorado, Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico.
The government here is extremely strong and intrusive. For fuck's sake, it controls the alcohol distribution and runs the liquor stores. We'll be the last state to legalize pot and won't sniff accepting gay marriage in many, many years. All the while, the Far West liberalizes (Nevada, Colorado and New Mexico are quickly tilting Democratic), Utah is getting more conservative with a government that at one point, if you can believe it, had a Porn Czar to regulate pornography in the state.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)I envy the free spirit of Colorado & Nevada.