Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary

[WilliamPitt]

2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014

This message brought to you by the Cart Before The Horse Foundation.

[NuclearDem]

1. So, you're saying we should run her in 2014?

[NYC_SKP]

3. Let's run her in 2008 and call it a day. (nt)

[NYC_SKP]

2. Nader Nader Nader!!!

[trueblue2007]

36. OH GEES. FORGET HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO nader ever more.NO nader ever more. NO nader ever more. NO nader ever more.NO nader ever more.NO nader ever more.NO nader ever more. NO nader ever more. NO nader ever more.NO nader ever more.NO nader ever more.NO nader ever more. NO nader ever more. NO nader ever more.NO nader ever more.NO nader ever more.NO nader ever more. NO nader ever more. NO nader ever more.NO nader ever more.

nader caused gore to lose!!!

[BootinUp]

47. OR....

Kucinich Kucinich Kucinich Kucinich Kucinich Kucinich Kucinich Kucinich

[karynnj]

4. I wish I could recommend this twice

I am amazed at the number of Hillary threads. I suspect some are to insure that she really is inevitable this time. I suspect some are designed to get people to attack her. All are non productive at this point. We need to get the House and keep the Senate.

[MADem]

9. Trash Thread is your friend.

Why do you care what some people want to talk about? What happens here on DU isn't going to influence what happens out there in the big wide world. This is just a small discussion board, not the mouthpiece of the DNC.

She's a Democrat, this is Democratic Underground, and FWIW, everyone knows that it's not uncommon for strategists to start working a campaign well before "campaign season."

As for Hillary haters, Haters Gonna Hate. Their words will be a record to look back upon when we actually enter campaign season. It'll make it easier to clear out the deadwood...

We do need to get the House and keep the Senate, but conversations about HRC aren't going to prevent that from happening. A lack of support for challenging Democratic candidates, insufficient funds for TV ads, and no GOTV will do that. Let's hope those don't happen.

[MindPilot]

5. A win at any cost is still a win I guess.

She may be a pro-war corporatist 3rd-wayer but she's got a D after her name so it's all good.

And all we have to do is elect a Democrat to the White House and everything will be all groovy and shit.

Wait...

[AtomicKitten]

18. Hey, what's not to like?

She voted for the war in Iraq.
Took a leading part in drafting the TPP.
Pushed for US military involvement in Syria.
Supported rightwing coup in Honduras.
Promoted Keystone pipeline.

x a lot

[jsr]

22. Good old days: Clinton seeks to re-evaluate NAFTA

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3705441

Clinton seeks to re-evaluate NAFTA
By Susan Page, USA TODAY

Democratic presidential frontrunner Hillary Rodham Clinton distanced herself Monday from one of her husband's signature White House achievements, saying NAFTA should be reassessed and "adjusted" and any new free trade agreements postponed.

"I think we do need to take a deep breath and figure out how we can make it work for the greatest numbers of people," she told USA TODAY. Clinton said NAFTA's benefits have gone to the wealthy and cost jobs for working people. She said a "timeout" in new accords would last until she felt the issue of trade in the 21st century had been adequately studied.

In 1993, Bill Clinton signed the North American Free Trade Agreement, which lifted most tariffs on goods traded among the United States, Mexico and Canada.

The New York senator said she has no qualms about splitting with her husband on a key economic point — one in which he battled fellow Democrats and their union allies. "Part of leadership is continuing to evaluate what we currently do to figure out if we can do it better," she said.

[NoOneMan]

51. In a one-up, Obama said he'd renegotiate with the threat to end it during the debates

Campaigns are about getting elected

[cascadiance]

53. And Obama was saying basically the same thing while running BEFORE pushing the TPP AFTERWARD

Why should we believe that Clinton won't do the same thing that Obama did earlier. Especially when she's shown to support H-1B "indentured servant" programs consistently that works against the interests of American tech workers, and those who might want to move here to work and be a real part of the system and not work slaves here if forced to do so in order to work here. Note how Obama tried to manipulate anti-NAFTA and those against free trade during the primaries that helped him get votes over Hillary and later backed away from those stances when he got the nomination. I would submit that Hillary's trying to play the same game now.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/18/magazines/fortune/easton_obama.fortune/

[LeftyMom]

25. And she's tight with The Family.

[gopiscrap]

26. not quite

[BlueCaliDem]

54. Correct.

We have a Supreme Court and the neutering of Chief Justice Roberts' power to think about. We need to overturn Citizens United and restore the VRA. We need to protect the rights of all Americans, including a woman's right to choose. Hillary will have the power, the gravitas, and the money to beat any Republican - or any Democrats as far as we know - running against her in 2016, and we need to focus to support her should she decide to run (which I believe she will).

My main focus for a candidate for president is on SCOTUS. Scalia and Kennedy will have to leave sooner or later, and we all know they won't do so willingly just as long as a Democrat is in the WH, therefore we need to wait them out by ensuring a Dem is in the WH until they retire or keel over in their seats a la Rehnquist so that we can put more progressive justices in the Court.

If you really, really want a more anti-war, anti-corportist, leftwing Liberal gov't, focus on the Senate and House where the real power lies. Congress, not the WH, decides whether or not we go to war, whether or not corporations are favored over the people, and whether or not policies are more centrist or more left.

Until we understand these truths and work together to make them happen, nothing is going to be "all groovy and shit". That's just the reality.

[HappyMe]

6. k&r

2016 won't mean shit unless we get 2014 sewn up.

[Retrograde]

7. Well, Cuomo is up for re-election next year

I think she'd make a great governor for New York. Or she could go for Peter King's Congressional seat. New York's senate seats aren't up next year, so Gillibrand and Schumer are safe.

[Agnosticsherbet]

8. The Hillary-lujah Chorus

Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah!
Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah!

For the next Clinton President reigneth.
Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah!

For the next Clinton President reigneth.
Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah!
Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah!

The Wife of Bill Clinton
Is become the President of our Land,
And mother of Chelsea, And mother of Chelsea;
And she shall reign for four years and four,
For four years and four, four years and four,

Clinton of Clintons, and President of Presidents,
Clinton of Clintons, and President of Presidents, :|
And President of Presidents,
And She shall reign,
And She shall reign for four years and four,
Clinton of Clintons, and President of Presidents,
And President of Presidents,
Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah!

And She shall reign for four years and four,
Clinton of Clintons, and President of Presidents
And She shall reign for four years and four,
Clinton of Clintons, and President of Presidents!
Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah! Hillary-lujah!
Hillary-lujah!

(Brought to you by the Droppings Behind the Horse Foundation.)

[Whisp]

11. LOL!

[HappyMe]

14. Excellent!

[cascadiance]

28. Reverend Billy couldn't have wrote this any better!

Sounds like a tune for the stop shopping choir to sing!

[JoePhilly]

10. Sure, wait until after 2014 to find the candidate that would unseat her ...

that's a great plan ... if you want her to be the Dem candidate in 2016, I mean.

[joshcryer]

35. ^ THIS ^

2 years isn't enough time. We need to find a candidate by the end of this year, that gives them a one year head start, and it might even force Hillary Clinton into going early (especially if it's a good challenger), which will draw out her campaign. There's a reason she was allegedly angered at Obama for choosing to run after she'd opened up her "exploratory committee." He got a head start and she was forced to say she was running a few weeks later.

[davidpdx]

38. Oh that's bullcrap

The idea that we have to choose candidates now is turning into a litmus test. Obama raised a shitload of money in the 21 months he ran ad that was WITH a very tough primary. I understand people are worried about the Republicans fundraising abilities, but money isn't everything. A grassroots campaign with volunteers and coordinators in every state with a GOTV that is strong will be needed no matter what candidate runs. Look at how poorly Romney did that. Also take into account that there will be a sitting president campaigning for the candidate.

This whole (cue the dumb voice) "well if someone hasn't declared by now we must nominate Clinton" schtick is pure and complete crap. Mindless crap.

[JoePhilly]

43. Hillary is not going to make the same mistakes she made in 2008.

Its that simple.

She is not going to plan to be crowned the primary winner by Feb 5th. She's going to go all in. She's going to have people in all the caucus states. She's out collecting "people" now.

Some on the left have been complaining about Obama since the day he took office. Now they complain about the potential for Hillary in 2016. They want Warren, or Sanders or, umm, well ... SOMEBODY who isn't Hillary.

And I don't think that person has to "declare" now ... that is dumb, thanks for pointing it out.

But the left wing better have a very good idea of at least 3 potential "not-Hillary" candidates.

Or ... the left can ignore 2016. And if Hillary runs, she wins. And the folks on DU who have spent Obama's first 5 years complaining, will get to complain about him for another 3 ... and they'll get to spend 4 to 8 more years complaining while Hillary is President.

[BootinUp]

48. Hope you're right

about the she's out collecting people for the caucus states part. As to your other statements....quite accurate I surmise.

[cascadiance]

50. And the Koch brothers loved to have the Dems follow this thought process when they funded the DLC...

... that had pushed the Clintons' and other corporatist agenda to take over the party and characterize what MOST Americans want as "the left" of the Democratic Party.

The party powers better realize that a vast majority of Americans are feeling disaffected by their choices from BOTH parties because of this mentality of pushing the "Hillary is inevitable" theme. The consequences of continuing this will be even more than Republican gerrymandered districts if both parties alienate most Americans as being "the left" who doesn't count versus the 1% who funds their campaigns.

If we push too many others to the curb, someone on the Republican side might get smart and pick up a lot of support by looking to do another tea party direction but in a different and perhaps more Ross Perot direction instead, and steal a lot of the support that the Dems might have picked up from them if we push them away. If the Tea Party gets kicked to the curb in 2014, the Republicans will be open to redefining themselves to steal votes away from the Dems if they see opportunities to do so should the Dems seek to push aside "the left" again. This party and the country can't afford for that to happen.

[JoePhilly]

52. The GOP can't pull that off with its current make up.

Its ideology, and its demographics, have become too narrow.

There is far too much that the "far left" wants that no GOP member could support.

Most Americans notice that one party is actively working to create dissatisfaction with government, and that party is the GOP.

The GOP's efforts at gerrymandering will ultimately lead them to smaller and smaller enclaves. Where, again, the ideology and the demographics are too narrow.

If the left wants to avoid Hilary, it will need to get busy, and soon.

Remember all of the calls around here for a primary challenge to Obama? That was never going to happen, but THAT was the time for "the disaffected left" to get started looking for a 2016 candidates. Now here in this thread, we're told, wait until after 2014.

As I said, do that, and assuming Hillary runs, she wins.

[cascadiance]

55. There are many that are even on the right that hate free trade deals too....

... as evidenced by those who supported Ross Perot earlier, who weren't to the left on many other issues. It is these voters that the Dems will lose and the Republicans perhaps could gain (in addition to more to the left if the moderates reenter the Republican party as a means to survive as a party if the Tea Party trashes them in 2014).

There are many even in the tea party that want more bankster regulation and accountability than the corporatist wing of our party has delivered and many of us are quite fed up with. I know that the Republicans can't do a complete makeover before 2016, which is why I'm scared of them changing significantly enough on many issues like free trade and bankster prosecutions, etc. that they steal the election from the corporatized Democrats. If the Democrats went more populist the way that FDR did in similar times, the Dems could perhaps just permanently make Republicans in to a minority party for many years to come. Unfortunately, the corporatist third wayers are standing in the way of that happening, and perhaps setting us up for a very costly loss both for the party and the country later.

[JoePhilly]

56. They hate gays and minorities more than they hate free trade deals.

The Tea Party hate of "the banksters" is tied more to libertarian approaches, kill the Fed, kill international trade, kill the WMO. They are isolationists, which is easy for them given how many of their numbers are rural to start with. They are already disconnected from much of the country, why think that engagement with the rest of the world matters.

And again, their hate of the rich bankers, is nothing compared to their desire to impose their religious strictures on everyone else, to keep the minorities and the gays at a distance, to control women in almost all ways.

[cascadiance]

61. That "they" is a small minority that has control of their party *now*, but might not later...

... once the PTB in their party realize that they will be a permanent minority party later if they continue to allow that social agenda define them, which I believe might show itself heavily in 2014 election.

I agree that they can't completely remake their party in two years from 2014 to 2016, which makes it a dangerous party then, but they might try to appeal to the very people that the CORPORATIST elements of the Democratic Party is pushing away from our party now who hate the 1% control over it, whether their social issue stances are to the left like many of us here who feel disaffected are, or those who have more right leaning social agenda issues. Those that hate banksters and at the same times want more gun rights, etc. will NOT come over to our side if they see us lining up with the banksters, etc. that the Alex Joneses and many others will have even the hard core right lining up against, along with many independents in the middle.

So far, the 1%ers feel they control enough of both parties when they buy them both out and have both stand in the way of meaningful reform such as overturning Citizen's United, public campaign financing, getting rid of electronic voting, and instant runoff voting. At some point, many will see that we all share the need to put in such reforms, even if many of us have widely different views on social issues, and come together to push one of the parties to embrace these changes or put together a third party to push them. The party that embraces them might be able to get a solid majority of real American support, even if they have to figure out how to work through not getting as much 1% funding of their campaigns. Let's hope that it is the Democrats, so that we can put in the better social issue priorities that would happen if that party is the Republicans.

[Whisp]

12. The Hillitary Industrial Complex must be stopped

can't be soon enough.

[avaistheone1]

33. I'm about to put on my steel-toe boots and protest the HIC.

[trumad]

13. Dude---as sure as bet as any..

Oh and bye the way---Call your Senator... She started it all.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger! - John Belushi

[Hissyspit]

16. I'll have a Coke.

[Go Vols]

19. No Coke

Pepsi!

[cascadiance]

23. Cheesebugie, Cheesebugie, Hillaree!!

[woo me with science]

46. I think this has staying power.

[tavalon]

17. Ha, ha, ha. You kill me.

I was all set to get annoyed at you for putting the cart before the horse. Excellent. Also brought to you be the corporation for public elections in 2013. I need to get my ballot OTD. Living in two places almost guarantees that that which you need is at the other place.

Edited to add: Damn, this is what happens when I wake up at what would be 2:30 AM for dayshifters and start typing. 2014. Teehee. Of course, I decided you were writing the right year. You weren't. I wasn't and am not awake. I'm going back to bed before I make a total fool of me. Whoops, too late.

[Buddha_of_Wisdom]

20. What, is this a repeat of 2008 again?

[cascadiance]

24. Have to start earlier this time to build more momentum to not lose later this time around!

[davidpdx]

39. See #38 for my response

The same thing applies.

[fadedrose]

21. Wasn't going to open your OP with that title

Because I don't go into pro-Hillary websites to insult and irritate people, but knowing you better than I used to, I just knew I was safe here.

2014 is okay for me, if she wants to run for the House somewhere. It's a position she hasn't held, and age shouldn't matter in a 2-yr term. It's perfect and don't know how you ever thought of it.

Cheers..

[gopiscrap]

27. the problem is unlike 2008 if she runs in 2016 and doesn't win the nomination

I don't see her or Bill being willing to do a lot of campaigning for the winner.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

29. Yea! More Benghazi!!!

Warren/Dean
Dean/Warren
2016

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

32. Let us pray Cruz is your nominee

[avaistheone1]

31. Now I understand why you win those prizes.

[joshcryer]

34. You were warned. You were warned. You were warned. You were warned.

We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now. We need a challenger now.

You were warned.

[DonCoquixote]

37. A bucket of maggot infested meat

Is better than anything the GOP can offer, so I will vote for whatever is NOT the GOP in 2016, be it Hillary, or even the bucket of maggot infested meat, should said bucket win the Demcoratic nomination. I could certainly think of many so-called Democrats that would be less disgusting than said bucket.

However, let's not blind ourselves. Hillary tried to do the whole "inevitable" bit in 2008, and the way she did it was so freaking heavy handed that many people voted for Obama. Am I looking forward to Hillary going to those "reagan democrats", knocking back drinks like she did on the campaign?

http://www.animalnewyork.com/2008/campaign-drives-hillary-to-drink/

Do I look forward to her rolling out the Mark Penn types, the ones that will chant "She gotta move to the right!"

Do I look forward to her chumming it up with Arianna Huff and Puff, the same former right wing creep that always gives the ones that want to "reform" social security equal time?

NO..

Now, let me say this wholeheartedly, if she were to actually REPENT

If she was to say getting rid of glass steagall was a MISTAKE that she would attempt to repeal
If she was to say massive welfare reform was a MISTAKE that she would repeal
If she was to say the individual mandate was a MISTAKE and go single payer
If she was to tell Bibi Netanyahu to knock it off with the damn settlements, instead of coddling him

then I would make her my own personal Joan of Arc..

However, she will not, and not even the most die hard Hillary supporters will find any evidence she will. She is the status quo, at a time when if we do not abandon the status quo, and actually move to the left, whatever window we have to save this country will be GONE.

That being said, do not worry about me voting third party, I know nader and hamsher are looking forward to getting more money from the GOP and the so called "libertarians." If Hillary wins the primary, she will have my vote, however, if I see a gore, a dean, or anyone else, I intend to make sure that Hillary gets the vetting she deserves, which is to say, make her walk across the poltical coals until she promsies to go left, or becomes yet another loser.

[bigtree]

40. horses and carts

. . . that's a clue right there.

Even Hillary detractors' greatest hope has signed on to support a potential candidacy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3950130

Horse and buggy folks want them to slow down. Kinda weak if that's supposed to be an answer to whatever momentum toward the nomination she has right now.

[randome]

41. Amen. 2014 is way more important.

Maybe we could have a 2016 Presidential forum for this nonsense until after 2014.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[MannyGoldstein]

42. Hillary will win in 2014, too.

She's *that* inevitable.

[DonCoquixote]

44. actually, here is a point

What if the reason all this focus is in Hillary is exactly to damped the 2014 effort, the one where the LEFTWING would get credit for being CORRECT about being agressivesly left?

[BootinUp]

45. Fucking Derp

(as someone once remarked in one of my threads.)

[CFLDem]

49. I just want Bill back in the White House

I grew up during his presidency and I wouldn't mind reliving the Clinton years again.

[Hutzpa]

59. So you're using fantasy over reality

as a leverage to vote for a candidate to accommodate the most important office in the country.

I don't see any difference from you and a tea bagger, they too want to relive the past.

[CFLDem]

65. No I'm using past experience to predict future performance.

I feel the Clinton years were good to this country.

As for the Tea Baggers, they just use certain distortion of the past to justify their sick prejudices. Something entirely different.

[Hutzpa]

57. It's unfortunate

Last edited Fri Nov 1, 2013, 01:31 AM - Edit history (2)

but I'm seeing the same mistakes made during the 2007 democratic primary election
being repeated.

This feeling of default entitlement is a signal of disaster waiting to happen, there are
about 53% of delegates who disagree with Hillary's political stance from the last
democratic primary election, not to mention almost 50+ percentage of the electorate that
voted against her also.

Her political positions on platforms that are extremely important to grassroots are yet to
be addressed, yet all we get is this push for her to run with no substance.

Do they really understand how high Obama has raised the bar for the next president? Do they really
believe that people are just going to accept rhetoric over substance?

[dipsydoodle]

58. Blunt, Blunt, Blunt, Blunt, Blunt, Blunt.................

Always worth checking out.

[kestrel91316]

60. Indeed. Let's have that 2014 election before going off half-cocked over 2016.

I like Hillary. If she gets the nom I'll vote for her. BUT SHE HASN'T DECLARED HER CANDIDACY.

[Beacool]

62. Don't blame Hillary. She and Bill have repeatedly talked about 2014.

I would blame the media and the punditry at large for their obsession with Hillary in 2016.

[WilliamPitt]

63. Where do I blame Hillary?

She has to wait until 2016 like the rest of us.

In the meantime...

[Beacool]

64. I didn't mean you personally.

But there are plenty of people on DU hating on Hillary, as if she personally is the one driving all the media hoopla. She's not, she wanted a year to do whatever she wanted to do without getting involved in politics (although she did campaign for McAuliffe because he is a personal friend).