Revealed: NSA pushed 9/11 as key 'sound bite' to justify surveillance (holy crap!)

[nashville_brook]

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/10/30/revealed-nsa-pushed911askeysoundbitetojustifysurveillance.html

An internal NSA document recommended that officials use fear of attack when pressed to explain its programs

The National Security Agency advised its officials to cite the 9/11 attacks as justification for its mass surveillance activities, according to a master list of NSA talking points.

The document – obtained by Al Jazeera through a Freedom of Information Act request – contains talking points and suggested statements for NSA officials (PDF) responding to the fallout from media revelations that originated with former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.

Invoking the events of 9/11 to justify the controversial NSA programs, which have caused major diplomatic fallout around the world, was the top item on the talking points agency officials were encouraged to use.

Under the sub-heading, “Sound Bites that Resonate,” the document suggests the statement: “I much prefer to be here today explaining these programs, than explaining another 9/11 event that we were not able to prevent.”

more at link including original doc --> http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/10/30/revealed-nsa-pushed911askeysoundbitetojustifysurveillance.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. In other news, water us still wet

[nashville_brook]

2. shows how disingenuous the whole lot is.

yes, we know they're ruling based on fear. now it's proved to be a corporate talking point.

[randome]

7. We already knew that.

They're only 'ruling based on fear' if spineless politicians let them get away with it.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[nashville_brook]

9. in this case we've got investigative journos with spine who're

holding the pols accountable.

shows how important it is that these professionals can perform their work unimpeded.

[rhett o rick]

70. Hey, werent you one of those that screamed that the NSA wasnt spying on anyone?

Interesting how you thought you knew what the NSA was doing. Now why would you side with the right-wingers in defending the NSA?

[randome]

80. The NSA's job is to monitor foreign communications.

They are doing that. I don't 'scream' and I don't 'side', BTW.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

81. Some here tried their hardest to shut down discussion about the NSA

spying by denials that anything wrong was going on, even though not knowing. They tried to shut down discussion by ad hominem attacks on Snowden and Greenwald. Now why would a "politically liberal" person be so determined to shut down that discussion?

The left sides with transparency while the right sides with secrecy.

[randome]

82. I just see the entire thing as a waste of everyone's time.

Climate Change Is Here!
Gun Control Now!
Immigration Reform!
Shut Down The Government Again!

Our Standing Among Our International Allies May Cause Diplomatic Difficulties That Impact Our Moral Imperatives!

Which of these battle-cries seem oddly out of place? Which of them sounds like policy wonkishness that does nothing to help those who need it?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

83. I think it is extremely important. Via spying the NSA, FBI, and CIA

can control our government.

Arent you the least bit suspicious why no one has been fired at these intelligence agencies? Denial wont make this problem go away.

[randome]

84. Who is controlling our government?

I see no evidence of that. The GOP is falling to pieces. Not soon enough, mind you. Even the corporations are turning against them. Obama can't even get the most basic legislation into play. We just lost 24 billion dollars during an unneeded government shutdown. Who's controlling whom?

Who should be fired for spying on other countries? The spies whose job it is to spy on other countries?

I can understand the point of view that some have about phone metadata copies. I don't agree with it but I understand the point of view.

That, other than occasional agent malfesence that happens in every LEA, is about the extent of our civil liberties being violated. The rest can certainly stand to be refined and regulated and such but is it worth so much effort? The bill that's been introduced to outlaw metadata collection is a step in the right direction for those who think it's necessary. I doubt it's going anywhere, though.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

86. It's a great question, "Who is controlling our government?"

It's a question that liberals should always be asking. Who do you think? You say yourself that the President is having a hard time getting his agenda passed. I dont think he has as much power as many would like to think. Who held the power when Bush was president. Certainly not Dim-Son. I can see a scenario where the spy agencies acquire enough power to control a lot of government. Edgar Hoover wielded a hell of a lot of power.

"Who should be fired for spying on other countries?" Let's see, the head of the IRS was quickly fired for doing his job as was VAn Jones and others by this President. But the spy agencies seem to be immune. Hmmm!

Granted we spy on other countries, but should we be in an embarrassing position spying on our allies? How about violating the Constitution and violating the FICA Law? Someone should be fired for that if not tried.
But no, the authoritarians among us love them some big shot right-wing authoritarians like General Clapper and General Alexander. These authoritarians prefer to punish the lowly peons that dare try to speak truth to authority. And they get a lot of help from the Corp-Media.

[malaise]

56. +1,000

Don't we all know that?

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. We are chums, and those in power count on it.

Oh wait, some will see this as an attack on them.

[NightWatcher]

3. So they admit using 9/11 to push their agenda...

But to suggest anything other than the 19 Saudis with boxcutters who crippled NORAD...... is nuts?

Alrighty then.

[nashville_brook]

6. yoink. also, they're touting 9/11 as if they had success with stopping it.

it's just rank. the whole thing.

[EOTE]

14. Sure 3000+ people died.

But think of how many more will die in the future if we DON'T throw away our civil liberties.

[randome]

15. Our civil liberties don't apply to Germany.

Just as their laws don't apply to us. If you're upset about the metadata copies...meh.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[EOTE]

16. Uh, I'm not talking about Germany.

I'm talking about the U.S. and the very real assault on our civil liberties this past decade plus.

[nashville_brook]

74. +1

[BobbyBoring]

45. Yep

I have studied 9/11 since it happened and have become the MIHOP variety if CTists. If you look at what it has led to, it's hard to question IMHO. And besides MIHOP has 4 of the same letters as IMHO. Figure that out!

[giftedgirl77]

52. Actually, it just made me want pancakes from

IHOP.

it may have to do with the fact that that my 15 year old has been asking to go to IHOP for a week.

[GoneFishin]

69. Ding! Ding! Ding! +1,000,000.

The parties and agencies who benefited enormously with increased budgets, more government contracts, less oversight, and broader operational freedom were exactly those same groups who had the means, motive, and opportunity to MIHOP and then cover it up after the fact.

[stevenleser]

4. Not just the NSA. The BND, DGSE and SIS(MI6) use the various global terror attacks to justify

stepped up surveillance.

[nashville_brook]

8. we've seen it in action -- yesterday in the intel hearing for instance,

but we haven't known how disingenuous it is vis a vis being a canned talking point. they're literally saying, "when you feel some heat, just remind them of the Twin Towers falling."

that's ghoulish.

[stevenleser]

10. Well, knowing that most western intelligence agencies say this is why they do it.

One is faced with two choices.

A. They are all lying and are using terrorism as an excuse to spy. Then you would have to explain why the intelligence agencies of a dozen or so western countries have all decided to do this at the same time and using the same excuse.

B. They really think terrorism is worth the spying efforts.

One thing is for sure, singling out the NSA doesn't make much sense.

B is the only choice that makes sense. That doesn't mean one has to think they are right, but their motivation is pretty clear.

[nashville_brook]

11. hacking Angela Merkel's cell phone...this is what this talking point is used on

sure they think they're being paid to stop terrorism, but they also have a horrible track record of doing that while it seems they excel at vacuuming up economic spy data against oil-producing and resource-strategic countries. not to mention their spying on reporters, news organizations and other professionals charged with shining a light on their work.

either way, it's up to us to reel them in to *stick to their own talking points* of curbing terrorism instead of performing industrial espionage.

[randome]

12. I still don't get this.

What is the rallying cry here? "Germany's chancellor must be free!" ?

Where is the victim in all this? A German politician who likely has her own spy apparatus? I don't get it.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[DirkGently]

46. How about, "Our credibility as a good-faith actor

is in the toilet!"

Bit glib to pretend revelations of spying on allied leaders' personal phones is business as usual.

If we caught a "friend" or anyone else doing that to Obama, the proverbial heads would roll.

There's no good faith reason to be doing it either. Certainly not "preventing another 9/11."

[randome]

51. I'm surprised that our credibility with other spying nations is anything to get worked up about.

Far better rallying cries are: GOTV 2014! Or Gun Control Now! Or Immigration Reform! Or Climate Change Is Real!

"Our credibility as a good-faith actor is in the toilet!" -Sorry, that doesn't exactly inspire me to respond with other than, "Meh."
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[DirkGently]

59. Our allies seem less convinced it's just what "spying nations" do.

Do you propose we'd react with such nonchalance if Germany'd been tagged tracking Obama's personal cell?

[randome]

78. Yes. We would.

Although I suspect the outrage on DU would be even more muted because America is the evilest of all.

If you don't trust our politicians to give you the unvarnished proof, why would you trust other countries' politicians?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[DirkGently]

87. A bold assertion.

Not sure what point you intend regarding trust. There's no question of veracity regarding the NSA excesses; no question of faith. These things have occurred, period. Likewise there is no "everyone does it" dodge available.

First, no, all "spying nations" do not take the egregious liberty of tracking an allied leader's personal phone. And if they did, and were caught, they would be roundly and rightly condemned.

[randome]

88. So you draw the line at spying when it involves someone's cell phone.

The NSA is doing the job it was designed to do. If they are doing that job too efficiently, fine, rein them in. But I don't see the point of getting outraged because they are spying in a manner some of us don't approve.

In general, I wouldn't approve of monitoring a head of state's phone (whatever 'monitoring' means). But would we approve of the NSA monitoring the phones of Ghadaffi when he was alive or Egypt's deposed Mubarak or North Korea's Kim Jong-un? Or Syria's Assad?

I doubt we'd have much to discuss in those cases.

In every spying scandal that has ever erupted, both spies captured in our country and spies captured in other countries, the spying is always roundly condemned. Often it's a game to see who can get the most political mileage out of the event. And then both countries continue business as usual.

Our spies weren't caught, in this case. Snowden simply 'told on us'.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[DirkGently]

89. No -- Merkle's cell is just a prime example of NSA defender hypocrisy.

We would never tolerate such from another country's spy network. But the evidence of grotesque overreach grows every day.

It's not being "told on" that makes it wrong. These are violations of own standards and unacceptable in any context.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

13. There are more than "two choices".

The world isn't that black and white. I would say it has more to do with a military industrial complex and bloated bureaucratic intelligence system that's grown out of control. And we're singling out the NSA because.....wait for it......we live in the United States!

[stevenleser]

17. The fact that more are doing it for the same stated reason completely undercuts that suggestion

you can't make it about the US and the "Military Industrial Complex" that we supposedly have if far more progressive Democracies in Western Europe are doing the same things for the same reasons.

Continuing to try to assert that simply does not make sense.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

19. We don't know that they're doing the "same thing".

We know that they're probably spying, sure, that's a given. But are they building massive data centers like the one in Utah? Doubtful. These gigantic bureaucratic agencies (some we know about, some we do not) thrive and succeed in a cyclical fashion. It's a wasteful approach.

[stevenleser]

23. Their intel agencies supply much of the EU data the NSA gets.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304200804579165653105860502

[villager]

28. So in your world intelligence agency abuses only began after 9/11?

[stevenleser]

35. Did you only just discover that spying agencies exist that spy? nt

[villager]

67. Did you only just discover that spying agencies exist that violate civil rights?

Oh wait.

You haven't actually discovered that yet, unlike the rest of the world.

[dreamnightwind]

36. How Science Is Telling Us All To Revolt...

Your post reminded me of CNN's "is it a good thing, or a bad thing?" I know we're all busy and have limited time to give to any single post, but I'd like to present my take on what is actually happening.

I won't go into everything that would be a factor in the reasons for NSA spying, nor am I informed enough to do so (none of us are, and that's no accident, we're talking about the NSA here).

A few things that occur to me:

Sure, part of this is about terrorism. Part of it. And their definition of terrorism would not be mine, they would include non-violent populist uprisings in their terrorist web, though they would identify and exploit any actual violence that either comes from such uprisings or that are staged and blamed on them.

I would rather include the corporate polluters who spend money to lobby governments for unimpeded extraction and combustion of the greenhouse-gas producing fossil fuels they are profiting from.

In addition to extraction and delivery of these resources, they also spend a lot of money to misinform the public about the coming consequences of their pollution, funding industry-friendly scientists, owning our major media outlets, funding "think-tanks", and working against, not for, zero or low-emission fuel alternatives, all in the name of profit. Those are the real terrorists, and the planet we live on is not a collection of natural resources for extraction, it is an intricate and dynamic system being pushed beyond its limits by fossil fuel profiteers.

Things like the Arab Spring, 9/11, other terrorist attacks, and Occupy have the attention of governments around the world. They can respond in a number of ways to these events. It appears their responses are oriented more towards control of the populace rather than on listening to and responding to citizens' legitimate concerns and demands.

In addition to those kind of events, they are looking ahead to future economic collapse and catastrophic environmental degradation which will result in massive evacuations and migrations.

We need a mobilization against climate change, a massive economic and lifestyle reconfiguration, and we need it yesterday. Instead, we're seeing an intense ramp-up of security and control systems. They seek not to avoid catastrophic climate change, but to create a total-awareness information network that can be used by both states and corporations against those seeking the drastic change needed to avert the unthinkable, and against the radicalized victims of the disasters we are and will increasingly be facing. They seek continuity of governments and corporate structures, and firewalling of the oligarchs from catastrophe and catastrophe's blowback when the populace realizes what they're in store for.

It is clear to me that the emphasis is on control by the elites of the masses, crushing dissent, and managing crises as much as possible rather than on dealing with the actual problems we face. I realize it's not entirely either-or, the newly arising total information awareness systems would not necessarily preclude prevention efforts, but it would take a lot of denial, IMO, to not see where the priorities are, which is on building populace control systems rather than on building an economic system that is compatible with sustaining human life on this planet for anything more than elites living in artificially controlled environments.

I would like to refer readers to this post
How Science Is Telling Us All To Revolt by Naomi Klein
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023944237

[Bluenorthwest]

48. As an American I think singling out American agencies make perfect sense.

As does singling out those who shill for them with 'Johnny does it too' songs.
Oh, and the choice is C. Follow the Money. The industry reaps billions. The best motive of all.

[deurbano]

53. Exactly. (To all your points.) I find the rationalizations disturbing.

[Bluenorthwest]

55. They also can't answer why, if everyone does it and it's no big deal, why we slam spies

into prison when we catch them rather than saying 'oh, of course you are spying on us, we all do it, would you like some coffee?'

[leftstreet]

5. DURec

Wow

[MisterP]

18. and everyone knows who did 9-11--Syria!

[AnotherMcIntosh]

47. A large oil field was recently discovered in Libya. Maybe Libya was responsible for 9/11.

A benefit of invading Libya is that they already speak Arabic. They will be able to easily understand our oil people.

[Jamiletto]

20. They spy on Merkel not to thwart another 9-11, but for economic reasons

Same with the Presidents of Brazil and Mexico.

[woo me with science]

21. They are facile liars. They are corporate fascists.

The surveillance state that is claimed to protect us is actually TARGETED at us.
Two reasons for this spying monstrosity:

1) Total information awareness for PROFIT

and

2) A surveillance state to suppress resistance by those being exploited for PROFIT.

[KoKo]

32. +1 Exactly

[nashville_brook]

41. i think this is my bottom line, too. want to target terrorists, fine.

target terrorists and get the hell out of everyone else's private information.

[DirkGently]

57. Facile is right. How lame & transparent to run to the 9/11 well.

You'd think someone could field at least a more nuanced argument at this point.

Of course, nothing will justify these dragnet sweeps, tapping allies' phones, etc.

[jon10]

22. the boy who cried wolf

someday, they really WILL need to do something somewhat intrusive, to keep us safe, but who will believe them after so many cynical lies?

what happens when '911' mean 'we got caught again, doing something illegal' with the last 15 percent of the public, who doenst already think that now?

[indepat]

24. 9-11 has been oh so convenient, with junior and Laura having had a great 2001, the MIC

having had a field-day every since, the war president getting to strut his stuff, and those who would scorch liberty got a free hand to do so. What a Godsend for those who want a country foreign to our Constitution.

[bahrbearian]

25. So how much were they paying Ghouliani ?

[Blue Owl]

26. K&R

n/t

[DirkGently]

27. A noun, a verb, and 9/11.

The Rudy Giuliani, "Americans are easily cowed and distracted" strategy.

The sheer size and scope of the NSA's attempts to collect mass, wholesale data, belies this paper-thin rationale immediately.

[woo me with science]

29. Using trumped-up terror to dismantle our Constitution.

Welcome, Corporate Fascism.

[Trillo]

30. Remember "Message force multipliers"?

How the hell are citizens supposed to "pursue happiness" when government is trying to make them afraid?

[sabrina 1]

31. The cynical use of that tragedy is despicable. I'm sure they used the

same talking points to get billions of dollars from Congress for their activities also.

If an ordinary person does that, it is called a 'scam' and if caught they are subject to consequences.

If Congress continues to spend Tax Dollars funding these scam artists while telling us they have to cut Social Security, then something is very wrong with this government.

All funding to the NSA should be postponed until there is a thorough investigation of where the money is going, and what they have done over the past decade or more, to justify any of it.

I think it is all being done, all the spying, for Business and Marketing purposes with little of it for 'terror'.

How wonderful to have such a huge budget to find out the spending habits and interests of the public so you know how to market your products, not to mention a huge Agency with dozens of sub contractors to help boost your business.

But funds allotted for Security are not supposed to be redirected to enhance the profits of Big Corporations.

That wwoud be a crime, if it turned out to be true, wouldn't it?

But won't know until a thorough investigation, not one of these toothless Congressional Committee hearings we get so often, is conducted.

[bullwinkle428]

33. Rudy Giuliani, NSA Minister of Propaganda.

[KurtNYC]

34. "bin Laden determined to strike in US" -- we had the intel

but did nothing with it for 36 days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike_in_US

It is not as if there was no surveillance before 9/11/01. The problem was Bush did nothing.

[nashville_brook]

39. +1

[Festivito]

50. ... and CIA had profit motive for sitting on the information.

Of course they would never use it to enhance personal fortunes.

No no never never never never! ...

[DirkGently]

61. War in Iraq was where the money was.

And with the huge balloon of private contracting in the new Super Surveillance State, priorities aren't likely to shift away from things that make the right people money.

Certainly spying on the German Chancellor had nothing to do with stopping Saudis from planning suicide attacks.

[DeSwiss]

37. Fear is what is always used. - K&R n/t

[Uncle Joe]

38. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, nashville_brook.

[Rex]

40. THIS is what they meant when the PNAC crowd said 9/11 'changed everything'

and pushed the notion into the conscience of the American people. IT meant that they could break the law or retool the laws so that unfettered spying on Americans could be another Mission Accomplished for Cheney.

Obviously the man learned to be paranoid from his mentor, Nixon.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

49. And probably what Colin Powell really meant when he said, "If you break it, you own it."

That phrase may have been inadvertently said where it could be heard after it was repeatedly said within White House circles.

[nashville_brook]

64. "another Pearl Harbor" to justify anything.

a little sidebar... i love 70s-era cult fiction, and recently read a critical analysis which posited that paranoia was the dominant style coming of the experience of Watergate and the Vietnam war.

That's not such a big statement, but it made me wonder... given the level of state transgression since 9/11 (with the PATRIOT Act, domestic spying, whistleblower clampdowns, etc), what's our dominant style? is it a rehash of 70s paranoia, or has it gone beyond.

Having spent a lot of time with young people at Occupy I say it's gone way beyond. Almost to a point that we have to struggle for common ground for action. Take the Russell Brand controversy over voting -- that's very typical of Occupy thinking, and a huge impediment to change.

It's like we've skated right past paranoia into a kind of "principled" apathy. Principled is in quotation marks b/c I don't agree that apathy can be principled, and that "stand" on my part is something that requires a good bit of defending with the younger Occupy folks.

/rant off -- just some random thoughts on how everything's changed.

[HereSince1628]

42. FEAR -is- the enemy of liberty. Pls, see writings of B. Franklin

[arthritisR_US]

43. How come....

I am not surprised by any of this?

[WillyT]

44. K & R !!!

[sendero]

54. As if...

... ANY amount of "intelligence" would have prevented 911. They had everything but an itenerary, and it still happened.

The NSA is just another member of the Military Industrial Complex, a group of private concerns that suck half the treasure of the nation and produce nothing and are totally unaccountable for their lack of actually accomplishing anything of value.

Remember the 20, I mean 50 I mean ZERO terror plots they have stopped so far? When they told us 20 and then 50 did they think we would forget? They are liars and I would not trust them to protect my cat.

[nashville_brook]

75. precisely. it's not like we're not noticing this.

people can accept cognitive dissonance for only so long. then we start asking questions. then they push back and that confirms our suspicions.

it's a recipe for creating a cynical and apathetic citizenry.

[warrprayer]

60. holy crap

then again, we shouldn't be suprised

[Joe Shlabotnik]

62. K&R n/t

[Grateful for Hope]

63. Not sure why this is any surprise.

9/11 was used as an excuse for many things - including the Iraq war.

[nashville_brook]

65. things can be unsurprising and useful at the same time

yes, to those of us who pay attention it's quite banal. but, with this FOIA being reported on, and becoming part of the discourse on surveillance, we can now dismiss those assertions: for better or worse.

i'd say that's part of what's wrong with the whole surveillance scandal. yes, we do need viable sig-int, and the use of sig-int for controlling dissent, or gathering industrial intelligence weakens the whole system making us less secure.

[Grateful for Hope]

66. As per your subject line and first paragraph

I agree whole-heartedly.

I don't pretend to understand your last paragraph, however - and I suspect most of us DUer's don't. Not sure why you added it?

In any event, it is a good thing that this info is out there.

[nashville_brook]

68. was rushing to dinner

that was just to say that i'm not advocating that all signals intelligence gathering is bad. we need that. and we need people to have faith in that function of the government. but that faith is shaken in all this morass of gathering intelligence willy-nilly without a clue as to what-for. undermining our faith in the intelligence community further creates insecurity.

so, given that they're charged with keeping the country secure, they're doing exactly the opposite.

[noise]

71. We don't know the truth about NSA and 9/11

Full stop.

NSA journalist Bamford had no good explanation for Hayden's bizarre explanation about not using NSA resources to track al Qaeda operatives in the US. The PDB's were ramped up in the summer of '01. Tenet was evidently freaking out about all the terrorist chatter. Yet Hayden tells us he was too worried about civil liberty violations to track the phone calls of al Qaeda operatives inside the US. This "concern" caused the NSA to miss the fact that the calls were going to the Yemen hub associated with previous al Qaeda attack planning.

Nobody at the NSA has ever been honest about their bizarre conduct in the lead up to 9/11. The context of their claims is not reviewable by the public in light of the fact that we simply don't know WTF went on at the NSA.

[nashville_brook]

73. perfect example of the disconnect.

that's just sickening.

[avaistheone1]

72. NSA is power mad.

And that is plenty scary.

[Laelth]

76. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

[gopiscrap]

77. fucking assholes, 9/11 was the ticket to pull all sorts of shit on folks

still makes me wonder if Bush knew it was going to happen.

[LondonReign2]

79. How very Bushian

[Historic NY]

85. No.......really.