FOLKS: There will be No. Grand. Bargain. Period, end of file.

[WilliamPitt]

Paul Ryan Waits Five Whole Minutes Before Killing Grand Bargain
By Sahil Kaptur
TPM

10/30/13

Paul Ryan killed any lingering hopes of a grand bargain within moments of the budget conference kickoff on Wednesday. In his opening remarks, the Wisconsin congressman and chairman of the House budget committee laid down a firm marker against new taxes, which are essential to any major deficit reduction proposal that can pass Congress and be signed into law.

"Taking more from hardworking families just isn't the answer. I know my Republican colleagues feel the same way," Ryan said. "So I want to say this from the get-go: If this conference becomes an argument about taxes, we're not going to get anywhere. The way to raise revenue is to grow the economy."

In the same opening remarks, Ryan urged action on scaling back Social Security and Medicare -- which progressives want to avoid at all costs, and which President Barack Obama and Democratic leaders have promised not to touch without new federal revenues.

The rest: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/paul-ryan-immediately-kills-grand-bargain-at-budget-conference-kickoff

Maybe the President and a bunch of Democrats really want to cut Social Security and Medicare. Maybe they want it so bad it keeps them up nights, sweating into their pillows as they chew their fingernails to the quick.

But it is not going to happen, because these people cannot agree on the wetness of water, much less come to a massive taxes-for-entitlements deal.

Someday, perhaps, The Great Screwing will be upon us. But not this time. Not because they don't want it, but because they simply can't get it done.

Cold comfort, to be sure.

But comfort nonetheless.

[djean111]

1. I will wait and see what happens. n/t

[PoliticAverse]

2. So what's going to happen Jan 15th?... n/t

[jeff47]

12. Depends on how dumb the Republicans are.

There are some Republicans who think the shutdown was a fantastic thing for them. If they are the ones calling the shots, the government gets shut down again. This will be a fantastic reminder for the voting public, which will be very helpful in the 2014 elections.

If the "smart" Republicans are calling the shots, there will be some crappy agreement that keeps the government running.

[geek tragedy]

18. Continuing resolution at sequester levels.

Maybe a few tweaks to discretion of agency heads, but Sequester is permanent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/26/the-democrats-have-lost-on-sequestration/?print=1

[Pretzel_Warrior]

3. Ryan is a hateful little shit. Pay more taxes you fucking billionaires!!!!

Until some billionaire has to pay so much in his taxes that he is forced to choose between eating and buying medication like many older folks on social security, they can all go fuck themselves with the giant shaft they are trying to give the rest of America.

We WILL take back the house in 2014 and WILL raise taxes on self righteous mother fuckers like Ryan, and we will stand over your quivering anger and laugh at you.

[leftynyc]

15. I'd settle for any of them

paying the same tax rate I do. At least that would come a lot closer to being fair than the approximately 10% they pay now.

[pangaia]

4. Rand doesn't want to raise taxes on 'hard working families.'

But he wants to cut SS and medicare. HUH?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

5. some are workers and some are takers, right? a guy who helped defeat Nazi Germany

and then worked in a steel plant for years until he retired draws social security. He is a taker and should be punished according to Romney, Ryan, and most Refucklicans.

[pangaia]

7. It just boggles the mind, doesn't it.

[geek tragedy]

6. my only concern with the catfood/grand bargain hype is that it distracts

from the urgency of dealing with the sequester.

It seems that victory has been defined as avoiding cuts to SS and Medicare.

[WilliamPitt]

8. Read this

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/10/harry-reid-sequestration-susan-collins-deal

(snip)

Why is kicking the can down the road a couple of months a better option than staving off another government-spending showdown for a half year, as Republicans prefer? It's because the Republican plan would lock in for even longer the $1.2 trillion in budget cuts known as sequestration, which went into effect in March and which Democrats really hate.

Democrats want to replace the economy-crimping sequester with a less austere plan that includes more targeted cuts and higher total spending levels. Reid is okay with extending current sequester-level spending—but only until mid-January, so a broader budget deal that includes Democratic priorities can be worked out before deeper spending cuts go into effect. If the House somehow forces a longer-term deal, it would be much harder for Reid and Democrats to negotiate a substitute for the sequester, say, six months from now because the fiscal year (which began October 1) would be half over. That would mean that the current deep budget cuts, which have already resulted in the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs, would likely drag on and on.

Reid does not want a deal that un-shuts the government to prevent him from waging a fight over sequestration. In September, he says, he agreed to a temporary continuing resolution that would keep the US government open for two months at the spending levels dictated by sequestration, and considered that a concession to House Speaker John Boehner and the Republicans. He did so with the expectation that he could still try to undo some of the consequences of sequestration in the 2014 budget. And with the House Republicans now on the ropes in the dual shutdown/debt ceiling crisis, he has seen his leverage increase and has pushed for the chance to wage another battle over sequestration.

...in other words, Harry's on it, and after the shutdown fight, my level of trust in him has been elevated by orders of magnitude.

[geek tragedy]

11. I trust Reid, but I don't know how much leverage he actually has.

The House Budget is $967 Billion. That's also exactly what the Sequester limit is.

They're not going to agree to increased spending or increased revenue, so the only thing that's left to negotiate is which programs starve and which ones get a few more crumbs.

Supposedly, the Republicans care about restoring defense spending, but that turned out to be mostly untrue, as one of the few merits the Teahadis have is they don't care about the MIC.

I'm rather pessimistic. The BCA was one pig of an awful deal Obama cut. Forget the stuff about Wall Street and drones--his disastrous fuck-up in 2011 is going to be the biggest stain on his presidential legacy, as it will haunt us for a decade.

[Zorra]

9. OK, fine, whatever...anyway, I have an even better bargain for you. I have a bridge for sale...nt

[colsohlibgal]

10. Hard Working Families?

The people we'd be looking to tax more aren't digging ditches. They may fly by people digging ditches on their way to Bermuda.

This propaganda line works with too many middle class people, my wish is that somehow they'd be granted the ability to engage in some actual critical thinking.

[seveneyes]

13. Was raising taxes on less then 250k income even on the table? /nt

[hootinholler]

14. Then why are democratic reps using the phrase?

[WilliamPitt]

16. Because

they were elected by the same 35% slice of the country that elected Louie Gohmert. If more people got off their asses and voted in the midterms, we wouldn't have a House full of idiots and sellouts.

P.S. Saying isn't doing. The Reps making these statements are not on the budget committee. They could say we should include money for a program to go to the moon in search of cheese. It would have exactly, precisely the same effect.

[hootinholler]

17. I really don't think my rep was elected by the same 35% that elected Gohmert

Delaney, Md06, D, replaced Roscoe Bartlett last January.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023948854

P.S. he *is* on the Joint Economic Committee

So, I think it probably best that we all let him know that's not the best thing to say?

[woo me with science]

19. THEY SHOULD NOT EVEN BE ON THE TABLE.

The mere fact of their being on the table enables more austerity. It begins the negotiations far to the right and allows our corporate politicians to spin the austerity they DO inflict as a win ("At least they didn't cut SS and Medicare!&quot . Last time, we were expected to cheer and be grateful for a vicious, predatory austerity plan just because it did not include SS cuts.

No more of these con games. It is time to expect more from Democrats. No more complacency with the lesser of two carefully presented evils. TAKE THEM OFF THE TABLE AND START AGGRESSIVELY DEMANDING PROGRESSIVE SOLUTIONS.

EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT should be publicly demanding that the cap be raised.

[MannyGoldstein]

20. Agreed.

At this point, many Dems will also break ranks.

That dish of cat food done sailed.