GOP to Moms of Slain Black Sons: Stand Your Ground Laws Help Black People

[marmar]

(Mother Jones) When it was his turn to ask a question at Tuesday's Senate hearing on Stand Your Ground laws, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) lowered his voice and spoke cautiously about the pain Sybrina Fulton, the mother of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin, must feel. But then he got to his point. Addressing Fulton, who had traveled from Florida to express her opposition to the spread of these laws, Cruz sought to downplay the significance of her message.

"I understand, for the family, you're simply mourning the loss of your son, and I understand that," he said, "but there are other players that are seeking to do a great deal more based on what happened that Florida night."

Cruz, his Republican colleagues, and the witnesses they'd summoned before the Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Human Rights, had a different point to make: Stand Your Ground laws—which allow a person to kill another if he feels his life is endangered—benefit black people if you hold the data up to the light and squint a little. And those who would say otherwise are using race as a cudgel to force through their anti-gun agenda. "With whom do we stand?" Cruz asked. "I for one believe we should stand for the innocent against aggressors." ....................(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/10/gop-trayvon-martin-stand-your-ground-good-black-people

[onehandle]

1. Cretin. nt

[gopiscrap]

2. Fuck the GOP, are they really that racist and or clueless?

[Blue_Tires]

4. yeah, pretty much...

[gopiscrap]

20. that is truly sad

and what's sadder is that 40% plus vote for those fuckers in national elections.

[Orrex]

3. She is a person of greater poise and grace than I would be able to muster

Cruz is unworthy to speak to her.

[Blue_Tires]

33. +1

[hack89]

5. SYG laws favors the shooter regardless of race

that's what Florida's data on SYG convictions would indicate.

http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases

In every possible combination of shooter/victim race except one (Hispanic/White), more people are acquitted than convicted. And there is no significant difference in the conviction rates for whites and blacks.

[uponit7771]

7. Only if a judge allows for it, the record is that in self defense cases the judges wont allow if ask

[hack89]

9. SYG is by definition a self defense case

not every shooting is self defense despite what the accused may say. That's why they have the SYG hearing - to see if the claim of self defense/SYG is a valid claim.

[uponit7771]

10. Oh, then it was earlier this year at the end of the TM trial that the 350% stat was shown in

...regards to blacks being jailed after pleading self defense when a white person is involved....

[hack89]

14. Interracial SYG cases are rare - there have been exactly four convictions in Florida

three blacks have been convicted vice one white - which is not a statistically significant sample size, particularly considering 35% of the cases (7 out of 20) have yet to be decided.

[uponit7771]

15. "...which is not a statistically significant sample size..." The PBS stats weren't FL only ...

[hack89]

16. Can you show the hard numbers behind the PBS story?

if I remember correctly that statement was simply put out there with no support data.

[uponit7771]

18. Link inside, PBS had it's data gathered and they analyzed the data

[img][/img]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/criminal-justice/is-there-racial-bias-in-stand-your-ground-laws/

Roman also found that Stand Your Ground laws tend to track the existing racial disparities in homicide convictions across the U.S. — with one significant exception: Whites who kill blacks in Stand Your Ground states are far more likely to be found justified in their killings. In non-Stand Your Ground states, whites are 250 percent more likely to be found justified in killing a black person than a white person who kills another white person; in Stand Your Ground states, that number jumps to 354 percent.

No doubt a whites only law

[hack89]

19. A total of 25 white on black shootings out of 43,500 homicides - .06% of all cases

and that includes non-SYG states.

If you think .06% of all SYG shootings are enough to prove it is a "whites only law" then there is not much more to talk about.

[uponit7771]

21. That's not the stats, they pulled the 350% number out of just 25 cases nationally?

...PBS had looked up either... I don't know what you're pointing to..

Yes, SYG is absolutely a whites only law just like the 2a is a whites only amendment.


Regardless of the law there is too much proof, anecdotal and empirically, to show that whites benefit way more than blacks from these provisions


To give conservatives alone the benefit of the doubt on the subject belies the reality of agnosticism they (conservatives) show towards all people of color

[hack89]

22. Read your link - that's where the 25 cases come from.

In the one state where we have detailed data for every SYG case, namely Florida, the empirical data does not show that whites benefit more than blacks. SYG in Florida clearly benefits the shooter regardless of race.

[uponit7771]

23. I did, I don't see what you're talking about... could you quote it? regards. BUT you left this out

Additionally, there are far fewer white-on-black shootings in the FBI data — only 25 total in both the Stand Your Ground and non-Stand Your Ground states. In fact, the small sample size is one of the reasons Roman conducted a regression analysis, which determines the statistical likelihood of whether the killings will be found justifiable.

He did a regression analysis because of the sample size of black on white nationwide was anomalous...

Come on man...

[hack89]

24. So if .06% of SYG cases are white on black shootings

that means that 99.94% are not. So explain to me how SYG is a white man's law.

Especially when I showed you that in Florida blacks and whites have nearly identical conviction rates. Are you arguing that Florida is an anomalous state? That racism is not that big of a factor compared to other SYG states? Before I believe that, you need to come up with some hard numbers for those other states. Don't you find it interesting that NPR didn't bother to provide the actual data?

[uponit7771]

25. Then do regerssion analysis to get the true number and not the anomolous ones.. IF you believe

... there were only 25 shootings of black by whites in US history then that's where the disconnect sits.

[hack89]

26. That 25 is what that 350% figure is based on.

That was the number of cases that the regression analysis was done on. That was what you based your comment that SYG is a white man's law on.

I don't have to do anything - it is your argument. If you want to provide some actual numbers then feel free to. I find it telling you refuse to address the Florida data I gave you. Why?

[uponit7771]

27. Post regression analysis... you're leaving that part out.

[hack89]

28. And regression analysis on small samples is prone to error

given the population of America, the total number of SYG cases and and the rarity of interracial shootings, to look at 25 cases and state anything with absolute certainty is nonsense. The margin of error would be huge for one thing. Secondly any regression analysis is extremely sensitive to initial assumptions - change a couple of parameters and everything changes. Small sample sets are particularly sensitive because each data point had a larger individual impact on the results.

Why are you ignoring the Florida data?

[uponit7771]

30. There's no proof that error exist in his regression analysis... if you have some I'd like to see it

.... otherwise I can take it at face value looking at the recent and past history of the US justice system in regards to fair treatment of people of color.

The US justice system doesn't get the benefit of the doubt in that area, they've been beyond horrid

[hack89]

31. We don't have his data or his actual analysis

so why are you so sure it is accurate? Was it peer reviewed?

You want to believe - go ahead. I would like to see the actual analysis first. That's all - not a big deal.

[uponit7771]

32. Then the benefit of the doubt goes to him, not a justice system that is systematically been so

... horrible to a group of people which goes back to my statement about the 2a and SYG being whites only laws... heck it's been a middle to upper class white leaning justice system.. poor whites and people of color don't expect much justice

[hack89]

34. But then there is that Florida data that disagrees with him

here we have hard facts that bring into question his results. I know you have your mind made up but to some of us, facts do have to be accounted for.

[uponit7771]

35. We're not just talking about Florida, nationwide it's a whites only law and I don't beleive for

... a split second that only 25 killings of blacks by whites have been given the benefit of self defense.

I'm not going to give the US justice system the benefit of the doubt when it comes to people of color

[hack89]

36. Ok. Nt

[Blue_Tires]

12. Still missing the forest for the trees...

[hack89]

13. I don't necessary support all SYG laws

it depends how they are written.

I was just pointing out that in Florida at least, they are not racially biased. That's all.

[dixiegrrrrl]

6. "simply mourning the loss of your son"

How demeaning of him to minimize her pain.
The sooner that slimeball slithers back to his hole in the floor, the better.

[joeybee12]

8. Cruz is garbage...and I apologize to garbage everywhere for that comparison...nt

[xchrom]

11. cruz is a rabid pig. nt

[ck4829]

17. Because, you know, liberty.

[jsr]

29. Cruz = a vile waste of oxygen