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Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 04:01 AM Oct 2013

Sex myths without substance: Mislabelling Japan

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/sex-myths-without-substance-mislabelling-japan-8911325.html

Sex myths without substance: Mislabelling Japan
These stories gain traction because they support a view
of east Asia which is at best patronising and at worst overtly racist



Every few months, as if to remind us what a disturbingly odd place Japan is, an alarming Japanese news story explodes online. Western media outlets clamber over each other in their haste to cover the story, with every report of bagel heads, snail facials or ritual head shaving being used as further evidence of a unique Japanese weirdness. A lack of understanding (and, sometimes, basic fact-checking) means that entire stories are lifted, often without critique, and churned into dubious clickbait. Earlier this year, widespread coverage of a supposed eyeball-licking epidemic among Japanese teens that turned out to be a hoax left more than a few editors red-faced.

This round was kicked off with an article in the Guardian looking at reasons behind Japan's rapidly declining population. Since then, sound-bites have been repeated and distorted, and the spiralling birth rate figures have become a hook for a spate of ill-informed, voyeuristic articles that fail to note that the 'weirdness' they see before them is far from representative.

TIME asked whether millions of young people are eschewing sex because they'd rather "manage a virtual candy store in a video game". Vice segued into an exposé of Japan's sex and love industry, taking time to name check "a generation of men obsessed with virtual reality and so intimidated by real women that they prefer cyber girlfriends". They explored 'cuddle cafes', sex dolls, services where you can pay to go on a date with someone dressed as an anime character – all niche industries that would be met with the same bemusement and derision by the average Japanese 20-something that some foreign journalists reserve for East Asia.

Presenter Anita Rani's quest to understand the "psyche of the modern Japanese man" leads her to Akihabara: the home of otaku, or geek, culture. As happens all too often, a tiny minority is portrayed as though it were representative of the wider population, and its impact wildly exaggerated. In a supporting article, Rani makes the entirely bogus claim that "One reason for the lack of babies is the emergence of a new breed of Japanese men, the otaku, who love manga, anime and computers – and sometimes show little interest in sex".
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Sex myths without substance: Mislabelling Japan (Original Post) Bonobo Oct 2013 OP
The Non-Financial Cost of Stagnation: "Social Recession" and Japan's "Lost Generations" joshcryer Oct 2013 #1
There is no reduction in sex Bonobo Oct 2013 #3
In the youth there is. joshcryer Oct 2013 #7
Maybe, but not much I think. Bonobo Oct 2013 #13
I looked up the data. joshcryer Oct 2013 #18
I think you know -no, I KNOW you know -that surveys can be misleading. Bonobo Oct 2013 #19
But your source said there *were no* statistics. joshcryer Oct 2013 #24
No, they said there were no stats linking the rise of "otaku" and declining birth rate. Bonobo Oct 2013 #27
Thanks, the final line I do agree with. joshcryer Oct 2013 #29
Here's the Vice doco, only 15 minutes: joshcryer Oct 2013 #26
you two say a lot says a lot arely staircase Oct 2013 #28
Love you too arely. joshcryer Oct 2013 #30
good morning josh arely staircase Oct 2013 #32
Thank you for the link and information. nt redqueen Oct 2013 #64
It's not that Japanese men aren't interested in sex Art_from_Ark Oct 2013 #2
I don't know, but I've seen a touch too much hentai. moriah Oct 2013 #4
Yes, but making too much of that would be akin to Bonobo Oct 2013 #5
Exactly. That's why I said "I dunno" and admitted my bias. moriah Oct 2013 #6
Yeah, because nobody views Americans as obese rednecks. joshcryer Oct 2013 #8
Yes, they do and it is no excuse to make the same error. Is it? nt Bonobo Oct 2013 #9
I agree it's myopic. joshcryer Oct 2013 #10
America has produced many obese rednecks, so it gets reported on. moriah Oct 2013 #11
For that matter, why are so many tentacled creatures interested in having sex Bonobo Oct 2013 #14
I wonder myself if yoai has an element to do with this. joshcryer Oct 2013 #15
Well, it does create a relatively non-exploitative form of porn that can be produced by both genders moriah Oct 2013 #16
suprising considering how pretty Japanese women are Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #12
Maybe the birth rate has to do with better access to birth control? moriah Oct 2013 #17
you are probably right Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #20
I don't think "better access to birth control" has much to do with it Art_from_Ark Oct 2013 #22
wtf?, lmao. hey, they are pretty enough to fuck. really? seabeyond Oct 2013 #33
rumor is that the Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #37
so? that has nothing to do with anything. i also do not have a need for comparative seabeyond Oct 2013 #39
Thank you PasadenaTrudy Oct 2013 #42
who knows trudy, maybe the guys are not pretty enough. nt seabeyond Oct 2013 #45
I just find it funny that people on DU will complain about oversexed societies, undersexed societies Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #21
it must be the USA's fault Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #23
I blame the Star Folks Lunar Colony Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #25
US fertality rate isn't even 2. joshcryer Oct 2013 #31
It hovers right around 2. Which gives lie to the idea of a "population problem" in the Developed Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #61
"Claim: Vending machines in Japan offer for sale panties purportedly worn by schoolgirls." Nye Bevan Oct 2013 #34
Claim: There are people in rural US that enjoy having sex with sheep. Bonobo Oct 2013 #35
There aren't "numerous vending machines" offering sheep for sex all over the US, though. Nye Bevan Oct 2013 #36
Oh, so it's the numbers that bother you. Bonobo Oct 2013 #38
OK, you've convinced me. Nye Bevan Oct 2013 #40
OK, it's sick. Bonobo Oct 2013 #41
In any discussion involving sexual morality and tribal taboo... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #44
Post removed Post removed Oct 2013 #46
Where did I suggest it was okay to fuck kids? You need to edit that nonsense. Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #49
soiled panties of schoolgirls, country's schoolgirls. girls' junior and high school uniforms seabeyond Oct 2013 #52
You do have a way with words, particularly when putting them into other people's mouths... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #54
you have made yourself clear that fucking child is child rape and you abhor that. that is not what seabeyond Oct 2013 #57
We can discuss that if you like, it might be interesting... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #59
maybe you can use it as a learning experience. cause as much as you are disappointed in my harsh, seabeyond Oct 2013 #60
This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Oct 2013 #51
But there should be! I see an entrepreneurial gold mine! nt Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #43
There aren't numerous vending machines like that in Japan, either. Art_from_Ark Oct 2013 #66
Not very common at all here...now in Germany, snooper2 Oct 2013 #47
And there's me thinking that a "zoophile" is somebody who likes zoos. (nt) Nye Bevan Oct 2013 #48
DAMN! I should have looked the word up before using it on my job ap at the zoo! nt Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #50
Thanks for posting that. redqueen Oct 2013 #62
There is some visceral fear, it seems, over a shrinking population bhikkhu Oct 2013 #53
THIS! Bonobo Oct 2013 #55
It's based on economics. redqueen Oct 2013 #63
In a post-industrial automated economy, it doesn't spell any unique trouble bhikkhu Oct 2013 #65
Good article. LittleBlue Oct 2013 #56
They also lead the world in Gojira-related disasters Orrex Oct 2013 #58

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
1. The Non-Financial Cost of Stagnation: "Social Recession" and Japan's "Lost Generations"
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 04:25 AM
Oct 2013
...

A bestselling book titled The Herbivorous Ladylike Men Who Are Changing Japan by Megumi Ushikubo, president of Tokyo marketing firm Infinity, claims that about two-thirds of all Japanese men aged 20-34 are now partial or total grass-eaters. "People who grew up in the bubble era (of the 1980s) really feel like they were let down. They worked so hard and it all came to nothing," says Ms Ushikubo. "So the men who came after them have changed."

This has spawned a disconnect between genders so pervasive that Japan is experiencing a "social recession" in marriage, births, and even sex, all of which are declining.

With a wealth and income divide widening along generational lines, many young Japanese are attaching themselves to their parents, the generation that accumulated home and savings during the boom years of the 1970's and 1980's. Surveys indicate that roughly two-thirds of freeters live at home.

Freeters "who have no children, no dreams, hope or job skills could become a major burden on society, as they contribute to the decline in the birthrate and in social insurance contributions," Masahiro Yamada, a sociology professor wrote in a magazine essay titled, Parasite Singles Feed on Family System.

...

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogaug10/Japan-lost-generations08-10.html


The statistics weren't hard to find, I suppose the article person didn't look. I just think she's being too hard on Vice because The Guardian is the one who asked them about it and all Vice could talk about was what they knew, and they were being asked about the Sex Industry in particular. The details are of course far more complicated than that.

Smith does credit the overworked overstressed cultural environment more than some magical cultural shift of lazy guys playing video games. But the connection is still there, the culture has shifted.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
3. There is no reduction in sex
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 04:36 AM
Oct 2013

Unless, as Art points out below, we are talking about sex within a marriage.

Much of the responses from the surveys should be attributed to Japanese reticence in admitting engaging in sexual behaviors due to embarrassment, modesty or the like.

I recommend you start with Edward Said's 1978 book, "Orientalism" and then continue educating yourself about how the West has long used Asia in order to define itself for its own ends.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
7. In the youth there is.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 04:47 AM
Oct 2013

I highly doubt it's down to bad survey taking (done by the Japanese Association for Sex Education). The idea that you think they can't make a survey and account for some reluctance to admit actually says a lot about how you view them.

I agree that the west has used Asia for its own ends and they have even adopted some of our cultural norms. The high consumer heavy workload lifestyle is unsustainable, for example. We need a 35 hour work week.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
13. Maybe, but not much I think.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 04:58 AM
Oct 2013

And the fact that you cannot appreciate that maybe I have some insights about Japan that you are not capable of says a lot about your inability to learn from others' experience and your overly optimistic self-assurance.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
18. I looked up the data.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 05:17 AM
Oct 2013

And was told that I need to be educated.

I think I'm trying to learn but being belittled by people with simplistic answers to complicated subjects. If the survey doesn't fit a view, it's the surveys fault.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
19. I think you know -no, I KNOW you know -that surveys can be misleading.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 05:32 AM
Oct 2013

It reminds me a little of the Woody Allen joke in Annie Hall.
He and Annie are both at their own separate therapist and are both being asked how often they have sex.

Alvy: Hardly ever. Maybe three times a week.
Annie: Constantly. I'd say three times a week.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
24. But your source said there *were no* statistics.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 06:14 AM
Oct 2013

The point is I fact checked and found some stuff. I came to at least help clear up the picture after finding the data, and get belittled. I could've just said fuck it and moved on, but I wanted others to see the data.

It seemed odd to me that there wasn't data and that Vice, of all sources, was making shit up or portraying the situation badly. Vice isn't perfect but they're one of my favorite 'magazines' because even if they don't give the full picture they get you close to understanding it.

Whatever, I blame the Guardian for the article more than anything, I think they wanted to ride on the coat-tails of the past month's Japan sex story thing, when it's not even that big of a deal and Japan is trying to fix it. I thought it was pertinent to note that reducing the work week and stress levels would go a long ways to doing that. I think I was just annoyed Vice was dragged into it. Their documentary on sex workers in Japan is not that damning. It's just a snapshot. They don't try to explain it to any significant degree, they tell the story of Japanese sex industry, and pose it as a problem. If anything they would agree with you on this, making it a cultural thing as opposed to, as I believe it is, an economic thing. Or as Smith says (the guy I linked originally), the ultimate collapse of consumerism (that's an angle I find extremely interesting; if consumerism has limits, we as a species need to include it in our politics somehow; see my latest journal post for why).

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
27. No, they said there were no stats linking the rise of "otaku" and declining birth rate.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 06:29 AM
Oct 2013

And there aren't.

I will watch the video.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
29. Thanks, the final line I do agree with.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 06:41 AM
Oct 2013

But it's literally one line.

I don't think you can link "otaku" (more "grass feeders&quot to the birth rate without a study explicitly set out to do so, but there is a correlation. Whether it's causation or not, of course, is debatable. I think that you can't prove the causation because it's not related to behavior so much external forces. The point was that the article said there were no statistics whatsoever.

I initially, ignorantly, Googled "otaku birthrate japan" and realized that the real question is "consumerism birthrate japan," and that's how I found it. It's not a trigger, it's a symptom.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
26. Here's the Vice doco, only 15 minutes:
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 06:21 AM
Oct 2013
http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-travel/the-japanese-love-industry

Just watch it, I think they were fair but I disagree with their conclusions, because I think it's an economic situation. The Japanese, after US imperialism, followed our model. We still work more hours than them but they are right next to us and I think their culture is far more consumerized than ours because of how spread out the US is. If we were Japan-sized I think we'd be having the same problems (though we do have a negative birthrate isn't not considered an issue since we're immigration positive and are very slowly growing, a population rate of 0 would be perfect, but we're more like 1%).

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
30. Love you too arely.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 06:43 AM
Oct 2013

We actually don't encounter one another much, but I think Bonobo is worth explaining stuff to because I respect them even if it's not reciprocated. There are some DUers who I believe are intelligent and thoughtful and while Bonobo might not like the compliment coming from me, they are one of them.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
2. It's not that Japanese men aren't interested in sex
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 04:27 AM
Oct 2013

All you have to do is walk around various Tokyo railroad stations and their red light districts to understand that. Or watch (mostly younger) men standing around the magazine rack of a convenience store looking at adult-oriented magazines. The problem, if you could call it that, is that sex within marriage is still viewed as a baby-making proposition, and childbirth outside of marriage is still viewed as taboo.

At any rate, once the wife reaches her "baby quota", she will often (usually?) lose interest in her husband as a lover, and oftentimes husband and wife will end up sleeping in separate rooms, having more of a brother-sister relationship than a husband-wife relationship-- especially when the kids are teens, because husband and wife sleeping together when there are teens in the house is *embarassing*.

So, a teenage boy may be exposed to that kind of marriage and think, "Why bother getting married?"

moriah

(8,311 posts)
4. I don't know, but I've seen a touch too much hentai.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 04:42 AM
Oct 2013

(A touch *was* too much, though I admit to giggling through most of it.)

And don't get me started on lolicon.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
5. Yes, but making too much of that would be akin to
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 04:43 AM
Oct 2013

thinking that all Americans are Texas cowboys.

It's a tad...myopic.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
6. Exactly. That's why I said "I dunno" and admitted my bias.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 04:46 AM
Oct 2013

American porn I'm sure has just as many moments where people giggle rather than go "Oh, baby...."

moriah

(8,311 posts)
11. America has produced many obese rednecks, so it gets reported on.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 04:56 AM
Oct 2013

Japan has exported lots of impossible-to-have-happen-IRL cartoon sex, and remember how much trouble Americans had with "South Park". Cartoons were not always for kids, but we forget that now.

Though: if there are any fans online, what *is* the point of having the woman shoot milk out her nipples on climax and drench half the room? To make people giggle?

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
14. For that matter, why are so many tentacled creatures interested in having sex
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 04:59 AM
Oct 2013

with schoolgirls?

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
15. I wonder myself if yoai has an element to do with this.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 05:03 AM
Oct 2013

The weird cartoons aren't just for guys! Though yoai readership is apparently small among women. I wonder if it represents a trend.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
16. Well, it does create a relatively non-exploitative form of porn that can be produced by both genders
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 05:08 AM
Oct 2013

And while there *was* a plot to the one I saw (thanks Bonobo for giving me the visual again...), you point to the actual manga... from what I understand those actually do have more of a plot. American women's pornography is available on every grocery store bookshelf -- romance novels. It wouldn't surprise me if manga was a medium that could transcend the gender gap in that way.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
17. Maybe the birth rate has to do with better access to birth control?
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 05:11 AM
Oct 2013

And they are a lot of people trapped on a relatively tiny island. Overpopulation is something people in my area, at least, don't think about.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
22. I don't think "better access to birth control" has much to do with it
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 05:57 AM
Oct 2013

The Pill was officially legalized in 1999, or thereabouts, but this declining population trend has been a source of hand-wringing in Japan for longer than that. And even though The Pill has been legal for a while now, it is still not popular due to concerns about possible side-effects years down the road, and, as this graph shows, its use still is miniscule in Japan.

http://www2.ttcn.ne.jp/honkawa/2266.html

The most widely used form of birth control in Japan (besides abstinence) is condoms, at 40%. Number 2 is "traditional birth control methods", at 16.8%, while Number 3 is coitus interruptus, at 11.8%, and the rhythm method, at 3.4%, is Number 4.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
39. so? that has nothing to do with anything. i also do not have a need for comparative
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 09:46 AM
Oct 2013

of our youth sexual appetite.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
21. I just find it funny that people on DU will complain about oversexed societies, undersexed societies
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 05:41 AM
Oct 2013

....there's supposed to be this horrible population problem in the US - with a fertility rate right around 2, mind you- so people who decide to have children should be yelled at....

and if Japan's population is decreasing, that's terrible, too!

OH NO!


People need to make up their minds. Fine, okay, everything sucks, humans are awful, we're doomed.

But pick one narrative and stick with it.

Niceguy1

(2,467 posts)
23. it must be the USA's fault
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 06:10 AM
Oct 2013

Then...we are the cause of all the worlds problems, too much sex, not enough, whatever it is lol ha ha ha

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
31. US fertality rate isn't even 2.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 06:45 AM
Oct 2013

It's actually, in many respects, ideal. Developed countries should stop making babies. Their energy footprint is much higher than the developing world.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
61. It hovers right around 2. Which gives lie to the idea of a "population problem" in the Developed
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 11:50 AM
Oct 2013

World, as you put it.

Countries with good standards of living, freedom (particularly reproductive), access to contraception, etc. manage their population rates just fine on their own. People in the developed world don't have a "population problem", we have a resource utilization problem, which is not the same thing. We should focus our energy on finding renewable ways to power our shit.

Demanding that people in First world countries "stop making babies" is unrealistic and not helpful, and pretty much just amounts to axe grinding. The First World countries are not going to magically go away and reduce our populations to zero.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
34. "Claim: Vending machines in Japan offer for sale panties purportedly worn by schoolgirls."
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 09:15 AM
Oct 2013

Claim: Vending machines in Japan offer for sale panties purportedly worn by schoolgirls.

Status: True.

Origins: Used underwear that has supposedly been previously worn by schoolgirls is being offered for sale in vending machines in Japan. Though we don't know the current price for such items, in 1993 they sold for the equivalent of US $50 apiece.

We'd read that this practice ended in 1993 and reported as much in the original of this article (which was penned in 2001), but since that time numerous readers living in Japan have written to say that not only haven't the machines gone away, but that they've themselves seen them.

Japan is home to a thriving bura-sera industry — of which traffic in the soiled panties of schoolgirls represents only one part — with "bura-sera" or "buru-sera" the term for a specific male fascination relating to that country's schoolgirls. "Buru" is anglicized Japanese (Japlish) for "bloomers" and "sera" for "sailor"; the term refers to the sailor suit, the predominant style of girls' junior and high school uniforms. Dozens, if not hundreds, of magazines are exclusively devoted to bura-sera photographs, pictures that feature girls clad in school garb, holding up their skirts to display their panties. Usually in such photos the girls' faces are hidden, but that is not always the case.

http://www.snopes.com/risque/kinky/panties.asp


Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
35. Claim: There are people in rural US that enjoy having sex with sheep.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 09:27 AM
Oct 2013

True.

But it does not mean that Americans are defined as people that enjoy having sex with sheep.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
36. There aren't "numerous vending machines" offering sheep for sex all over the US, though.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 09:29 AM
Oct 2013

And there are not hundreds of magazines focusing on sheep sex being sold here.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
38. Oh, so it's the numbers that bother you.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 09:43 AM
Oct 2013

Okay, yes, I could go into Tokyo or Osaka and buy the panties you are talking about. So what is your point?

That Japan is a society where there is less pretense that sex is not something which often involves submerged desires that would be embarrassing to be talked about in public?

Or is it your point that Japan is somehow "sick"? Does the sexual behavior of a tiny percentage (yes tiny percentage) of men somehow define the country?

Do YOU ever do anything in private that you would not admit at a pool party? No, please don't answer. The point is that sexuality is a small part of anyone's lives and is the panty thing is a small part of Japan despite the wish of some to elevate it to mythic status by its mere existence.

Perhaps Germans should be redefined as a country with scatology porn?

Or Americans redefined as a country that fucks choir boys?

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
40. OK, you've convinced me.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 09:52 AM
Oct 2013

There is nothing sick whatsoever about a businessman being able to purchase used schoolgirl panties from one of numerous vending machines.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
41. OK, it's sick.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 09:59 AM
Oct 2013

Have you ever done anything sexually that SOMEONE ELSE might define as sick?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
44. In any discussion involving sexual morality and tribal taboo...
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 10:30 AM
Oct 2013

I always try to distance myself personally from the activity under discussion before assigning value judgments, and instead approach it with the assumption that sex is not something icky, gross, or shameful; and that sexual activity of any sort is fine (if you enjoy it) so long as no one else is being harmed. When considering any sexual activity, once you have dispensed with the first the later becomes much easier to define.

Let's say, for example, that I enjoy slathering myself in Vick's Vapo rub and retreating to my basement to furiously masturbate over back issues of Horse and Hound magazine. As I am sure you are aware, this is a common fetish, but it will do for starters. If we stipulate that there is nothing wrong with masturbation and that the horses are both unaware and uncaring (the hounds are, of course, flattered), it's easy to see that no one is physically harmed by this activity. It is therefore not "sick" -- whatever your own religion based cultural values might suggest.

And this remains true even if we substitute our now ragged Horse and Hound magazine for this month's edition of Cat Fancy or Farm Life, or even a picture of a model in a sailor suit clutching a backpack. Even if we add other people to the mix, labels like sick or wrong are not for you to assign. If my partner enjoys dressing up like a schoolgirl, complete with vending machine panties, and calling me Uncle Tickle, that's really none of your business and it's certainly not your place to call it sick. The most you can say is that it's not a turn on for you.

Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #44)

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
49. Where did I suggest it was okay to fuck kids? You need to edit that nonsense.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 11:01 AM
Oct 2013

Sex with children is RAPE.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
52. soiled panties of schoolgirls, country's schoolgirls. girls' junior and high school uniforms
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 11:08 AM
Oct 2013

this is what you are lecturing the poster on that he should not see as icky, shameful, or judgment. correct? did i misread your post?

that is fucking kids

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
54. You do have a way with words, particularly when putting them into other people's mouths...
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 11:19 AM
Oct 2013

I never stated or even suggested it was okay to rape children, and I insist you edit your post to reflect this. I make it a rule never to report posts to the moderators, but your post might become the exception that proves the rule.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
57. you have made yourself clear that fucking child is child rape and you abhor that. that is not what
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 11:24 AM
Oct 2013

i asked you. i am being clear here.

we are talking about soiled panties of girls.... school girls. little girls. our children.

i read a post of yours lecturing that poster, on that very post, where you say you do not see it as icky, shameful or value judged. right? that is what i am asking. that is what the poster posted. that is what you say. that is what i am calling out.

i did not post that it was not icky. i posted that i will be horrified at the feeding of fucking our kids to grown men.

where is the problem, why am i not allowed to address your post, that really bothers me about a mentality that i think is detrimental to our children in such a huge, overwhelming manner.

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
59. We can discuss that if you like, it might be interesting...
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 11:31 AM
Oct 2013

But I am not going to do so with you when you begin the discussion by accusing me of condoning the rape of children.

Seriously Sea, I am disappointed in you. We've gone around on a few topics, and you've even changed or opened my mind on things in the past, but this is beneath you. Anyone else I would have reported after the first request.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
60. maybe you can use it as a learning experience. cause as much as you are disappointed in my harsh,
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 11:36 AM
Oct 2013

admittedly, extremely harsh interpretation of what you said in that post, that is EXACTLY how i hear what you posted. how i feel the reality is. what i see happens with feeding soiled schoolgirl panties to fuckin grown men. do you get that?

you have made it clear about how abhorrent you see my post, and the harshness of my words adn the rape of children is to you.

you position is clear.

but, you also gave me an opportunity to express WHY the acceptance, without judgment, without shame, without the "icky" factor is such a huge wrong in our world today.

i will say this demo... respectfully i get your position. i think you did not think thru your words. i think many many many do not think thru the consequence of the "icky" factor of some of these perverted sex turn ons. but, i will not delete my posts.

i think the point too big.

Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #44)

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
66. There aren't numerous vending machines like that in Japan, either.
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 03:03 AM
Oct 2013

Really, you'd have to go to a really raunchy redlight district like Kabukicho to find that sort of thing.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
47. Not very common at all here...now in Germany,
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 10:45 AM
Oct 2013

Fuck zoo's for animals? Animal brothels,



German zoophiles alarmed by govt s plans to criminalize bestiality

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
62. Thanks for posting that.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 12:48 PM
Oct 2013

It's obvious that many people would rather pretend this kind of stuff wasn't happening... avoid any scrutiny or a discussion about why something so abhorrent is allowed.

I'm curious why that is.

bhikkhu

(10,716 posts)
53. There is some visceral fear, it seems, over a shrinking population
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 11:17 AM
Oct 2013

Personally, I think the Japanese are leading the way, and may be one of the better-prepared societies for a less populous future. A simple resources/population equation would suggest that a lower population (within reason) increases overall wealth and opportunity.

The best explanation of lower birth rates is that people are more educated, they are capable of making choices, and more choose to do other things than raise children. That's just fine. I think the same pattern would repeat elsewhere given an adequate level of education and access to healthcare, and economic opportunity. In other words, there but for poverty and ignorance goes our own society.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
55. THIS!
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 11:21 AM
Oct 2013

"The best explanation of lower birth rates is that people are more educated, they are capable of making choices, and more choose to do other things than raise children."



This figure shows the strong reverse correlation (-0.8 out of -1.0) between countries’ IQ scores and their fertility rates. The x axis represents the IQ scores and the y axis represents the fertility rate. As you can see, if you go to the right side of the figure (high IQ score), the fertility rate gets lower. This is a typical linear correlation.

Japan’s birth rate is not particularly low at all considering the higher the IQ, the lower the birth rate.

Japan is merely following this global trend. If there are true outliers, they are countries like Singapore or Cuba.

IQ is highly correlated to various educational indexes. I also used educational indexes, percentage of secondary education enrolment and literacy rate, and calculated the correlation between them and the fertility rates and got similar results.

While this correlation alone doesn’t necessarily imply that the IQ is the cause of the low birth rate, you can assume there’s some relationship (whether direct, indirect, or through another variable like higher educational level) between them. The correlation is very strong.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
63. It's based on economics.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 12:54 PM
Oct 2013

Not sure about Japan, but in many countries it is the taxes contributed by the workforce which support the retirees. A significantly greater number of retirees than younger adults in the workforce spells trouble.

bhikkhu

(10,716 posts)
65. In a post-industrial automated economy, it doesn't spell any unique trouble
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 08:29 PM
Oct 2013

its just another variety of the same problem we have right now: where a small number of people are required to run the machines that manufacture an abundance of things that everyone needs, how do you arrive at a fair distribution? When all of our needs are met by a minority of the population's labor, how do you value the roles of the remainder?

I wish I'd saved the link, but I read a good paper a couple of years ago on the topic of the shrinking workforce vs the rising retiree population. The thing is, if you look at the actual volume of production per-capita then versus now, we have more of an abundance of resources available now, per capita, than 30 years ago, even taking into account the different retiree ratio.

As fast as the retiree populations are increasing now, our ability to provide for them (and everyone else) materially is increasing faster. The problem that remains is only one of distribution.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
56. Good article.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 11:23 AM
Oct 2013

Last edited Wed Oct 30, 2013, 12:57 PM - Edit history (1)

As I said when the article about declining Japaness birthrate was posted, it has more to do with population and economic expectations than these weird subcultures.

Sex ed is taught in a manner that would shock most westerners, but that's why they have one of the lowest teen pregnancy rates in the world. They deal with the issue of sex in a logical way and don't cloud the issue with religious meaning or emotional outbursts.

Orrex

(63,212 posts)
58. They also lead the world in Gojira-related disasters
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 11:29 AM
Oct 2013

Or at least they did until Matthew Broderick "starred" in the biggest Gojira-related disaster of all time.

AMIRIGHT?!?

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