So we spend 20 billion dollars designing low radar profile war ships for what, again?

[Gravitycollapse]

Fighting battles at sea that haven't existed for decades?

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/29/bigger-faster-deadlier-navy-launches-new-stealth-destroyer/?hpt=hp_c2

(CNN) - The Navy's newest warship slipped out of dry dock this week into the waters of Maine, marking a new era for war fighting at sea.

The USS Zumwalt, the first of the DDG-1000 class of destroyers, is longer, faster and carries state-of-the-art weapons that will allow it to destroy targets at more than 60 miles, according to the Navy.

At 610 feet long and 81 feet wide, the Zumwalt is longer and thinner than the USS Arizona, a battleship sunk at Pearl Harbor. But it weighs about half as much.

Much of the ship's superstructure is wrapped in a huge, canopy made of lightweight carbon fiber composite.

The canopy and the rest of the ship is built on angles that help make it 50 times harder to spot on radar than an ordinary destroyer.

[Niceguy1]

1. if climate change progresses

We will.need a strong military

[Gravitycollapse]

2. You forgot the sarcasm tag.

[joshcryer]

4. That's ... actually ... what the Navy says.

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/category/national-security/

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/10/study-says-navy-must-adapt-to-climate-change/

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/documents/CCR.pdf

[Gravitycollapse]

5. Of course they say that. They benefit from the MIC.

To the military the answer to EVERYTHING is an expansion of the militarized state.

[joshcryer]

6. The Navy is at the forefront of climate change science.

They consider climate change to be the planet's greatest threat and the greatest threat to peace that exists. More so than terrorism, more so than conventional energy peaking. The biggest threat.

If you think they're lying, OK. I don't think the Navy is lying.

This is not to say that MIC spending on the Navy is justified. It could certainly be reduced and streamlined to more aid package type of behavior (such as desalinating water, and such).

[Gravitycollapse]

7. They aren't lying. They're deluded. The two are not the same.

The military in general is responsible for all sorts of technological wonders. That doesn't diminish the inherent anti-intellectualism and rampant morbidity of the military industrial complex. It just means we've warped science and technology to bring about vast instances of death.

[joshcryer]

9. So they're deluded that climate change is a threat?

WTF.

[Gravitycollapse]

10. No, they're deluded that nationalism should be a primary concern when it all goes to hell.

Then again, these people fill their bank accounts with money made from careers doing almost nothing but furthering a nationalist agenda. Science is just kind of along for the ride.

Really, though, their concern for the environment is laughable given their predilection for all of the nastiest components of industrialization. The vast majority of our overburdensome industrial pollution spewing shitfest can be traced back to the military industrial complex. They always seem to discover new and interesting ways to fuck everything up. The very least they could do is discover a few ways to help with damage control. And I won't bow down at their feet for doing so.

[joshcryer]

12. Mass migrations will have a national element.

States aren't just going to let mass migrations open the doors of their borders and allow them to just come there.

If you would bother to read the reports they lay it out pretty clearly. There will be mass migrations and die offs. This will lead to unrest.

Whether the Navy is serving its own interests for noting the truth about climate change I don't care. I believe that it is true that climate change will have that threat.

[Gravitycollapse]

14. And as the foundation of humanity is rocked by fear and chaos, I will not bow before the state.

I will observe our demise with more than a little chuckle of irony.

[joshcryer]

18. Unless you plan to live 100 more years...

...you won't see it.

[Gravitycollapse]

22. I am young enough where living 100 more years is a definite possibility.

I'll certainly be on the cusp.

[joshcryer]

29. You'll see Arctic Sea Ice melt in the next 2-3 years.

As will I, if I don't die from an accident.

We'll both see mass migrations due to sea level rise.

We'll probably both see geoengineering attempted to quell climate change.

If it works, then the Navy's projections would be wrong.

If it doesn't, then the Navy's projections will be correct and the world will descend into chaos.

edit: for what it's worth I agree with you that this ship is unnecessary and didn't need to be built. I was just agreeing with that other poster because the Navy has been at the forefront of climate change discussion and information, they know what's up, unlike the rest of the military which doesn't actually experience climate change first hand.

[Niceguy1]

8. how many wars over resources and migration

Do you think are going to start as things go bad? It is a real threat as civilzation collapses

[Gravitycollapse]

11. When it all goes to hell, the last thing on my mind will be nationalism.

So I won't give a single shit about a robust Navy or military. I don't give a shit now. I have nothing but contempt for our militarized state.

[Niceguy1]

13. we will need a stong defense

As the world adjusts....

[Gravitycollapse]

15. You mean as everything falls to pieces, we will need a nation state to deify.

[Niceguy1]

16. no, we will need the ability

To defend ourselves from those who will attempt to attack and steal our resources, more so if we suceed in going green when other don't.

[Gravitycollapse]

17. Mr. President, we must not allow a mine-shaft gap!

[Niceguy1]

20. I bet those sites already exist..but in smaller numbers and very secret.

[madokie]

3. And the operative word here is Slipped

they didn't want us to know much of anything about this if they could keep it that way. The MIC is killing our country, our way of life.

Heres a link to the ships. http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dd21/

[jakeXT]

19. No air defense or defense against fisherboats packed with explosives ?

And while it may be the most advanced destroyer in the history of naval warfare Talmadge points to one Chinese admiral who says all it will take to send the Zumwalt to the bottom of the South China Sea will be a handful of fishing boats packed with explosives.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-uss-zumwalt-ddg-1000-a-silver-bullet-of-stealth-2012-06


A 2008 report on the ship from US Navy Vice Admiral Barry McCullough revealed that “the DDG-1000 cannot perform area air defense” and that the ship essentially lacked any ability to fire at enemies located above, making it a sitting duck for air attacks. At the time, a naval source with Defense News said that the ship "could carry and launch standard missiles, but the DDG 1000 combat system cant guide those missiles onward to a target."

http://rt.com/usa/china-billion-navy-ship-972/

[Victor_c3]

21. That $20 billion is spent to protect our country from freedom hating communist countries

According to a couple of list I found quickly on the internet, the most 10 most powerful navies in the world are:

1) US
2) Russia
3) Japan
4) French
5) UK
6) China
7) Italy
8) Spain
9) South Korea
10) India

Depending on where you read the countries might appear in different orders, but they are generally in this position.

So, of course we have to have a stronger Navy than the rest of the world combined to keep the French, Italians, and Chinese from invading us. Without a strong navy, how are we to protect ourselves from the UN when they invade our country, throw us all in FEMA detention camps, and install Obama as a dictator over our country if we don't have a stronger (and more expensive navy) than the rest of the world?

--------
edit to add:

Look around on this list of military power I found on Wikipedia.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_level_of_military_equipment[/url]

There are 20 aircraft carriers in the world and we have 10 of them. There are about 182 destroyers in the world and we have 62 of them. There are 134 nuclear subs in the world and we have 71 of them.

It's amazing how much money is just squandered on military strength that we don't need.

[onethatcares]

23. yes, but

we can blow the shit out of any thing at any time if'n we want. hoooorah.

but we can't keep a homeless woman from scaling the walls at CentCom.

Any idea how much the head of Lockheed Martin makes? holy moly, with all the options it's like $25,000,000.00 a year

[Rain Mcloud]

24. Well,you had to ask:

"So we spend 20 billion dollars designing low radar profile war ships for what, again?"
The only undefeated Navy in the World,The Afghanistan Navy.
They have this state of the art weapon,known as the Khyber Pass Rifle:
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/1136540.htm

[unhappycamper]

25. This five plus billion dollar destroyer is a vortex generator:

[Turbineguy]

26. In order to spend money.

The costs bear no relationship to what we actually need to be doing.

[B Calm]

27. Costs a lot of money to run a ship too.

[woo me with science]

28. Meanwhile, food assistance is slashed. nt

[DetlefK]

30. Maybe not for fighting other ships but bombarding coasts.

Or maybe the ship is just a demonstrator to prove that all those technologies can be integrated into a single package.

[hobbit709]

31. Our military is always fully prepared to fight the previous war.

[madrchsod]

32. to take out chinese coastal cities....