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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow to Cut the Poverty Rate in Half (It's Easy)
by MATT BRUENIG AND ELIZABETH STOKER
snip:
So we know generally how to bring folks out of poverty. We have a long list of successful programs that already do so. The question still before us is can we do more?
How hard would it be, for instance, to cut official poverty in half?
Using the dataset from the latest Census poverty report, I determined that if we cut a $2,920 check to every single Americanadults, children, and retireeswe could cut official poverty in half. Economists consider this sort of across-the-board payment a universal basic income. You can think of it as Social Security for all, not just the elderly.
The upside of giving everybody about $3,000 is that its a very easy policy to run and a surefire way to cut poverty in half. But it's a large program: it would require about $907 billion in 2012, or 5.6 percent of the nations GDP. (In a real implementation, we might exclude the more than 45 million Americans receiving OASI Social Security benefits from a basic income, bringing the cost down substantially.)
Could we afford it? Sure. For starters, we could raises taxes, first on the rich, who would pay more in new taxes than they would receive in basic income, and then on lower-middle class and poor families, who would come out ahead. There is also plenty of room to cut tax expenditures on homeowners, personal retirement accounts, capital gains exclusions at death, and exclusions on annuity investment returns. This submerged welfare state for the affluent costs hundreds of billions of dollars each year. There is also the matter of the $700 billion military budget, which could take some trimming.
The point is: this could be done.
The rest
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/10/how-to-cut-the-poverty-rate-in-half-its-easy/280971/
ruffburr
(1,190 posts)I'm in total agreement with this article, But I really think the wingers would be having all kinds of coronaries over it and will never happen as long as they draw breath, So that brings up some interesting thoughts
P.S. Thanks for the toons doc u rock
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
feathateathn
(15 posts)Why just cut it in half? Have you no compassion for the other half who remain in poverty? If it is as simple as cutting a check, there is no reason that anyone should ever live in poverty ever again
n2doc
(47,953 posts)It would be very interesting to see if there was a multiplier effect that dragged more than 50% out of poverty. But as posters above have noted, there is no way in present day America that this program would ever happen. We are taught to be just fine with giving vast amounts to the war industry, and to the spy industry, but giving anything to the poor is to be the most horrible thing possible. Especially if no strings are attached. Heavens, they might buy drugs with it. Or worse, Lobster!
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Who's going to break their ass for $8.00 an hour. How will we get our Big Mac's????? People would have more kids to get more money. And by the time they grow up, they should have a lot saved. Are they going to go out and make a living? The idea sounds great, but eventually we will run out of money, and have a lot of people with over crowding.
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)Guess what...they would have to pay MORE than $8.00 per hour...in fact the least attractive jobs would have to pay the most!
In fact in the outter banks of NC, when I lived there, they could hardly get anyone to work in those jobs....and had to pay them more, and offer them places to live...
Sorry....the most to suffer would be the industries who pay the least.....their profits would have to go down...boo hoo
RainDog
(28,784 posts)for shitty jobs. those wages would likely rise for those jobs - ones that don't really offer much other than a paycheck.
other jobs, that people love and want to do without consideration for pay might find those jobs are not impacted by this scheme because the jobs themselves would attract many and, therefore, not put pressure on wages.
The main economic effect would be on the labour market. Its an essential part of the proposal that it would make a number of jobs possible for example part-time jobs which are currently not viable because the net income from undertaking them is less than people currently get from benefits. However, because basic income would not initially be at a level that would altogether replace means-tested benefits, the possibilities of these low-paid jobs would still be restricted by the existence of those benefits. Nevertheless, a number of paid occupations that are presently unviable would become possible. What is very important and something substantial in the proposal is the differential effect on pay levels. It does not follow from what I have just said that there will be a massive or significant decrease in the pay for the jobs that are currently being done. It is essential to understand that the impact on pay levels will not be unambiguously to lower pay. For one should bear in mind that basic income is given unconditionally, so that it wont work simply as an employment subsidy to lower labour for the employer. It can be used that way by the beneficiaries of basic income, who are enabled to accept jobs which pay less than those that are currently available; but they will do so only on condition that these jobs are sufficiently attractive to them, compared to the alternatives on offer. They may be more attractive because of some intrinsic feature, or because of the training they provide. For other jobs that are unattractive and provide little training, the long-term impact will be to raise the amount of money that employers need to pay.
http://eis.bris.ac.uk/~plcdib/imprints/vanparijsinterview.html
This is an idea, btw, that has had support from both the left and right. From the left b/c it offers some power to the worker to refuse certain jobs/conditions until a threshold was reached for the job, and from the right because offering a basic minimum income would be a way to help with poverty while reducing the size of govt... various programs would be folded into one.
This is also an idea that has been talked about since the founding of this nation - the first, most famous mention is from Thomas Paine. Paine is also acknowledged by the Social Sec. Admin. for his writing on this subject in Agrarian Justice. He proposed a tax on inheritance and a tax on the sale of private land.
http://www.constitution.org/tp/agjustice.htm
n2doc
(47,953 posts)If you are so concerned about money, perhaps you should be concerned about the 1 trillion a year we spend on 'defense' and related spy activities.
"People would have more kids to get more money." Don't you really, deep down inside, want to say "Those People"?
to be a basic minimum, the stipend would have to be tied, somewhat, to cost of living.
The most basic at this time would surely have to be at least $10,000. More realistically, that figure should be doubled.
Switzerland, of course, is going with $2,800 per month per citizen, in their recent proposal.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Fuck work.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)And I think that's the point.
People are interested in various things and would have the option to work doing things that are meaningful to them, that are helpful to their communities... things that those with the time and money do as volunteers anyway.
this also addresses the idea of parenting as work. people who opt out of the traditional work force to raise children are not recognized as people who work, tho the job is 24/7, even when/if you do have some time off.
I think the idea of work has changed, and our ways of dealing with how to survive need to address this reality.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Such that it is a social imperative that you starve if you can't or won't, or your parent can't or won't, or something.
Sorry, I just get pissed off at the way we treat people in this country. Always blathering on about how cool we are and meanwhile we treat people like shit, here and abroad.
Not working is the normal human state, working is what's strange.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)this is one question to ask - is a complex civilization more barbaric than less sophisticated societies - and, if so, why is this allowed when we supposedly have moved to more sophisticated thinking about the value of humans.
I think the idea of work, itself, is too often tied to something that is not also pleasure, often.
I see no reason to live in a society in which CEOs make massive amts of money while their employees need food stamps to survive.
That's not work - that's near servitude. Or feudalism. Or something - it's not right, and that I know for sure.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)My immediate answer (re: barbarism) is Fuck Yeah, barbarism has risen more or less in concert with the means to carry it out. (I'm of the Twain-Mencken-Bierce school of misanthropy.)
But then I start thinking, and I see it's a lot more complicated than a sound byte. And we ARE in a period of very rapid change. So I'll have to think about it.
I don't think it's allowed so much as we haven't figured out collectively how to put a stop to it.
We're the problem. I mean who else? Dogs? Chickens? We can't control ourselves. That is exactly the argument war lovers make, it's inevitable. Which conveniently assumes their desired conclusion.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)that's the idea that we are able to have relationships with about 200 people - and after that, it's more likely abstraction or, even more likely, stereotypes.
when we had less complex societies, we also had more knowledge of our fellow travelers, so empathy was easier to come by.
and those earlier societies were egalitarian as a form of survival because someone who hoarded for the sake of himself, rather than sharing with the group, presented a threat to survival and cohesion of the group.
And we're in another one of those times when the very foundations of what we do is changing. Free trade has destroyed the middle class worker/manufacturer. The tech revolution has destroyed entire industries... and wants to destroy more (per their own admission.)
Since social darwinism was always a perversion of science, you'd think those libertarian techies might be able to see they're falling prey to the same sort of thinking that made colonialism palatable for the exploiters.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 30, 2013, 11:33 AM - Edit history (2)
social order we have today, a few at the top, and everybody else is an employee, or ex-employee, or failed employee, in any case a prole.
http://www.amazon.com/Human-Scale-Kirkpatrick-Sale/dp/1897408064
Your point about heuristics is sound too, most of our "thinking" consists in jumbling abstractions, heuristics, and stereotypes around in our heads until they form a satisfying arrangement. And we take the results much too seriously. We aren't that good at it yet, it's a very new thing. And computers are not the answer either, they are much too limited, things like us have to be grown, have to have a body and senses. Your mind is not separate from your body, or vice-versa. They grew up together. Look at your hand, that was not "assembled". That has always been an integrated organ, fully functional, from the bud in the womb. So if you want to understand it, you have to understand it dynamically, as a process, not an object, you cannot just disassemble it and understand what it is. And we are lousy at that, thinking dynamically. I could not number the times when debugging programs the problem would be that the engineer was thinking about the problem statically and not seeing how the program was going to behave over time. The asynchronous and real-time stuff.
But we do have a lot of potential.
killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)jmowreader
(50,560 posts)Your post looks like the plaintive cries of the right wing and I figure you were just being sarcastic...
MLK - "...the programs of the past all have another common failing -- they are indirect. Each seeks to solve poverty by first solving something else."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023909775
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)We will still have enough to be safe military wise. Sure some of the welfare queens over at the MIC will suffer. I guess they will have to be happy with the billions they already pocketed and have to go home. They still are sniffling because their war with Syria fell through.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)RainDog
(28,784 posts)here or anywhere else.
Unsurprisingly, this growth in profits has been fueled in part by massive increases in the U.S. defense spending. In the decade since 9/11, the total Department of Defense budget (PDF) increased by about 55 percent in real terms, from $460 billion in FY 2002 to $715 billion in FY 2011. And the portions of the budget most relevant to military contractors - the money allocated to procurement and to Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation - kept pace, growing 55 percent from $139 billion in 2002 to $216 billion in 2011.
The defense industry has continued to enjoy this prosperity during a recession that has had a devastating effect on both businesses and families across the country. For example, median household income, a broad indicator of economic prosperity, was hit hard by the recession, with more than a decade of growth being wiped out between late 2007 and 2011. Defense profits dipped slightly at the recessions start, but unlike household income, they rapidly recovered, rising over 40% between 2008 and 2011 and nearly returning to their 2007 peak.
http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/08/13/680481/defense-contractors-profits-cuts/
But why should anyone want to cut the U.S. military budget? This is from 2011 - and, afaik, no cuts have been included in current budget considerations.
Is this really necessary? During the Cold War, the United States confronted far more dangerous and numerous military adversaries, including the Soviet Union. And the U.S. government certainly possessed an enormous and devastating military arsenal, as well as the armed forces that used it. But in those years, U.S. military spending accounted for only 26 percent of the world total. Today, as U.S. Congressman Barney Frank has observed, "we have fewer enemies and we're spending more money."
Where does this vast outlay of U.S. tax dollarsthe greatest military appropriations in U.S. historygo? One place is to overseas U.S. military bases. According to Chalmers Johnson, a political scientist and former CIA consultant, as much as $250 billion per year is used to maintain some 865 U.S. military facilities in more than forty countries and overseas U.S. territories.
The money also goes to fund vast legions of private military contractors. A recent Pentagon report estimated that the Defense Department relies on 766,000 contractors at an annual cost of about $155 billion, and this figure does not include private intelligence organizations. A Washington Post study, which included all categories, estimated that the Defense Department employs 1.2 million private contractors.
http://www.hnn.us/article/130258#sthash.CyiLOn46.dpuf
WillyT
(72,631 posts)madville
(7,412 posts)One time, annual, monthly? I think I one time or annual payment wouldn't change much. Monthly would be way too much money, like 10 trillion a year.