Michael Moore opens his big mouth...

[Archae]

And promptly sticks his foot in it.

FLINT, MI -- Flint native and filmmaker Michael Moore told HBO viewers on Friday that the Christian Right has "turned this country into the dark ages," during a debate on religion on the show "Real Time With Bill Maher."

Since 1980, "the policies of this country have been run by the Christian Right," Moore said. "They took over and they turned this country into the dark ages. And we are so far behind now, with science, education, health care, everything."

Moore was arguing against a point Maher was trying to make, that radical Islam is more damaging than radical Christianity.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2013/10/michael_moore_says_christian_r.html

[lob1]

1. I agree with Moore.

We are in the dark ages compared to 30 years ago. The Christian Right had corporate help, but they are certainly a major part of the cause.

[Enthusiast]

46. The radical Christian right has served as a tool for corporations....nt

[Jackpine Radical]

78. And radical Islamists have served as tools for despots in the Moslem world.

Fundamentalist religion has been an effective way of controlling and directing the masses since--I dunno--Egypt? Not to mention pre-Columbian American societies.

[Enthusiast]

143. Religion is a tool.

[Scuba]

58. +1

[newfie11]

64. +1

So do I.

[BlueStreak]

79. Actually, BOTH Moore and Maher are right

Last edited Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:02 PM - Edit history (1)

There is no question that fundamentalist Islam is a huge and growing threat worldwide. But in America, it is Christian fundamentalism that has done the real damage.

The bigger picture is that society has stopped progressing. Sure, our science and technology are continuing, but most of that is now going to enrich the few rather than to raise everyone's standard of living. And socially, these fundamentalists of all stripes are taking us backwards centuries at a time.

[Laelth]

130. I appreciate a Blue point of view. n/t

-Laelth

[Quantess]

153. Well said / written!

I agree.

[Octafish]

114. +1 Bill Maher acted like he'd never heard the term 'Christian Dominionist'...

...when Valerie Plame brought it up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Exactly how?

Stats prove he is correct

http://m.

&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DzEyUWKJFER8

[Gravitycollapse]

3. I absolutely agree with Moore on this. Both radical Islam and radical Christianity damage...

in their respective ways. There is no evidence one is universally worse than the other. As Moore said, in this country specifically, the radical Christians are the ones who've fucked everything up.

[BluegrassStateBlues]

4. And his big mouth was right.

[geek tragedy]

5. I agree with Moore. nt

[DontTreadOnMe]

6. I agree with Moore too

Religion IS a form of bigotry. The idea that "my Book" is correct, and "your Book" is wrong... well there you go -- religious intolerance.

[demwing]

55. MM was correct, but you're not

You've escalated mere disagreement to sheer bigotry., and posited that all religion is intolerant.

Jimmy Carter is deeply religious. Is he intolerant?

What about MLK Jr? Big messy pile of hate, right?

ffs...

[Laelth]

132. +1. n/t

-Laelth

[Scootaloo]

7. Maher suffers from Hitchensism on this

"Sure religion is bad as a whole, but our religion is better than their religion!" - it's ultimately a nonsense proposition, silly brinksmanship from people who claim that religious penis-waving is below them.

[RainDog]

8. we have stronger democratic institutions

that we need to work to keep. that's why the radical xtian right in this nation has not been able to do as much damage to more people.

it's time for responsible Republicans to distance themselves from this nihilistic element of society and accept that the nation is more liberal than the Republican Party, and certainly more so than the apocalyptic right wing.

[Laelth]

133. +1. Well said. n/t

-Laelth

[longship]

9. Well, he's not too far off the mark.

Yes, he uses some hyperbole, but that's Michael Moore. But Moore has it basically correct.

The Christian Right has utterly destroyed one of the two political parties in the USA. My father, a life long Republican (of the Eisenhower type), found all the religiosity disgusting. They are anti-science with their smarmy creationism bullshit. They deny climate change. They have their sock puppets all over the media spewing rubbish and the media gives them coverage in the name of (false) balance. The result is that the USA is losing its edge (whatever that means).

I will stand with Michael Moore (and Richard Dawkins) on this.

[Niceguy1]

16. destorying a party

And running amok globally are very different.

[longship]

19. Consider what happened when they achieved power in 2001.

That kind of defines running amok globally.

Iraq?

[Niceguy1]

22. I am not going down the road of false

Equivalencey. As much as I hate the tea baggers they are not the same as the jihadists

[Fumesucker]

50. Watch this and get back with us on that

[Gravitycollapse]

23. Have you never heard of the War on Terror? With bible verses printed on the cover of briefs?

Seems to me like quite the Christian crusade. And if Christians are waging Christian crusades, it appears Moore has a very strong point.

[Luminous Animal]

10. WTF. Moore is right.

[LadyHawkAZ]

11. He's right

left uncontrolled, they are exactly as bad as each other.

[laundry_queen]

12. How exactly? He's right. nt

[AzDar]

13. MM is absolutely correct here.

[Whisp]

14. I'd have to agree with Moore here.

I don't get your facepalm, can you explain?

[Archae]

15. We are NOT in the (bleep)-ing "dark ages."

And while there are tiny minorities of far-right "Christians" would take us back if they could, in reality these nutcases are almost always voted down, once their true agendas are known.

And Maher is correct, worldwide, radical Muslims are more dangerous right now.

But we don't burn people at the stake for believing the Earth goes around the Sun.

We don't draw and quarter people for lessening the pain of childbirth.

We don't torture people on the rack into confessing they are witches.

We don't live in a feudal society.

Defending Moore for his asshole remark is so stupid, it fits into the level of stupidity I noramlly see in Teabaggers.

[Gravitycollapse]

20. So it appears the methods of extreme radical Islam are brutal. That doesn't mean it's more dangerous

In fact, that the methods are so brutal might actually mean it lacks efficacy and thus such extreme measures must be taken. Whereas the global threat from radical right wing Christians is much more diffuse, less overtly brutal and insane, yet more effective and wider spread.

Also, there are many such Christian terrorist groups in African countries who have equally brutal tactics. We just don't often talk about those countries so not many notice.

[tblue37]

53. Not to mention the bombings of women's health clinics and venues like

the Atlanta Olympics, as well as the murder of doctors who perform abortions. Who but the Christian right should we blame for such violence?


They are also very much implicated in violent militia movements in our country. We have not yet succumbed to the level of violence in our own country that marks jihadist movements, but the Christian right certainly has subgroups that push for such "holy wars" here and elsewhere, and the Christian right's strong presence and influence in our military, especially in the Air Force, undoubtedly has some impact on the advice the officers give to the civilian leaders who are supposed to keep the military in check.

The illegal invasion of Iraq was to a significant degree just imperialism, war profiteering, and an attempt to expropriate their oil and set up a base from which we could control the Middle East (mainly because of oil, but also for Israel's interests). But there was also an element, especially among military leaders and rank and file soldiers , that saw that war specifically as a religious crusade.

They wanted to do as Ann Coulter advised,"Invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity."

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. You should look up literary devices my friend

Not everything is 100% literal

Anyhoo, let me offer you this, again

http://m.

&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DzEyUWKJFER8

[Archae]

26. Is a "literary device" a license to lie?

We already know that Moore is a liar.

He's not helping our side with his "creative" editing, and making things up like he did in "Bowling For Columbine."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_for_Columbine#Criticisms

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. I see, you hate Moore

Have a good day

[Archae]

29. No, I don't "hate Moore."

I hate what he does.

He makes liberals and liberal documentary makers look bad with his deceptions, and liberals look bad being associated with Moore since he has a habit of making inflammatory remarks to get publicity.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. I guess the they did not read the USPA in DC

Was a lie. (According to John Conyers who told Moore this lie)

We are clear on your position. So you know, he is a muckracker. In a previous age you would have hated Upton Sinclair.

[Demit]

34. You apparently have never heard of the 'big tent'.

Liberals don't walk in lockstep. Liberals and liberal documentary makers are not going to be discredited as a group by the views of one liberal. Relax.

[Bluenorthwest]

104. I think your talking points are disproven by the vast acclaim Moore has gotten from

liberals and liberal documentary film makers. Moore films include the top grossing doc of all time and 3 of the top ten grossers. He's won every possible award from his peers including the Oscar and Palm d'Or. The entire documentary business was revived by him and the concept of a political doc making a profit was unthinkable before him. It would be hard to find a liberal documentary maker who does not count Moore as the singular leader of the field.

[joshcryer]

37. I was going to back you up but with that, nah, fuck it.

Those criticisms are not lies, nor are they even misrepresentations.

Moore was using hyperbole to score a point, but he's not wrong, in theory, that American progress would've gone much much further than without the fundies trying to bring America down. That, btw, is Moore arguing for American exceptionalism, even though he doesn't mean to. He's saying that the fundies took us to the dark ages which implies, to any reasonable person, had they not been there the US would be in an enlightenment age.

This is why saying some soundbite and trying to score points is a bad idea. Think it through.

[RainDog]

56. well, the U.S. is the only western democracy

that doesn't have universal health care, a comprehensive social safety net, and performs lower on educational testing standards.

...and the U.S. is the only western democracy that has a religious right that exerts much influence over government.

so there's a definite relationship between our backward social policy and right wing xtianity in the U.S. and it seems to be causal, because the "godless commie" and "ermergerd obama socialist" are the realms of thought from the religious extremists here too.

...as they were when Kennedy was president and it was "catholic commie" and "ermergerd Kennedy is a socialist."


so, yeah, the reason the U.S. is more backward than many other western nations is because of the negative influence of Pat Robertson, Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, etc. devotees.

[joshcryer]

59. I don't disagree with Moore's intent.

[sibelian]

94. Ooook.

That's practically a Beckism.

[lame54]

120. who's "We"?

[Skittles]

41. um

look up "figure of speech"

[SomethingFishy]

81. So anyone who disagrees with you is stupid?

It may not be the dark ages for you but try being gay for a few days and see how it feels when you are called an abomination, or an affront to god...

[grantcart]

99. The relatives of 500,000 dead Iraqis would disagree with you, the body count of

that war exceeded any Crusade.

Extreme Islamists are a problem but they are a 2% minority that is fighting secular society rather than say Texas where they control it.

And then there is this:

The most critical challenge to our species is global warming.

Who is having the greatest impact in undermining the science and policy to correct it, small violent insurgent groups in Asia and the Middle East or the Republican House that takes its science marching orders from people who believe that the Earth is 6,000 years old?

My secular Muslim friends would make this point:

We are risking our lives to confront and defeat our fundamentalists, what do you risk?

And finally you do realize that the people who carried out the Dark Ages didn't think of themselves as anti-intellectual and didn't call it the Dark Ages themselves, but that they were enlightened people of faith carrying out the will of a just God.

[Laelth]

136. That, sir, is a killer post. Thanks. n/t

Last edited Tue Oct 29, 2013, 03:47 PM - Edit history (1)

-Laelth

[Bluenorthwest]

106. “You want to know something? We are still in the Dark Ages.

The Dark Ages--they haven't ended yet.” - Kurt Vonnegut

[Egalitarian Thug]

17. ...and drops another truth bomb on the religiously deluded. n/t

[pa28]

18. Always pleased to see new commentary from Michael Moore posted.

Thanks!

[MindMover]

24. I don't think it was all the fault of the Christian right ...

I think the Christian left had as much to do with turning a blind eye/going along to get along, to all the shenanigans ...

I believe education or lack thereof has been the critical factor in the demise of the USA ...

Because if you are educated, you believe science and healthcare and everything else falls into place ... however if you are not educated, you will think yourself a wise man and yet fall for anything ...

[Fumesucker]

47. The Tea Party is more highly educated than America as a whole, God help us

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html?_r=0

[MindMover]

93. God helps those who help themselves ...

And my comment was referring to the population of the USA, not just the tea party ... which I am sure has some very smart people involved who are pulling the strings ...

[Fumesucker]

98. I was respoding to this part of your post

Because if you are educated, you believe science and healthcare and everything else falls into place ... however if you are not educated, you will think yourself a wise man and yet fall for anything

Education doesn't necessarily make one wise.

[MindMover]

116. That is exactly what the bushies said ....

In response to your respoding ....

[Fumesucker]

121. And yet, once again, the Teabaggers are more highly educated than the average American

Not to mention that Dubya had degrees from both Harvard *and* Yale.

[MindMover]

137. Degrees bought and paid for by hard working Americans ...

As I have already stated, a few baggers are smart not wise, but the vast majority are neither smart nor wise...

[1000words]

25. I'm going to join the chorus, and agree with Moore.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

28. Moore is correct. It's been the goal of GOP since 1980 to create dumb sheep

They have succeeded on a grand scale.

[TwilightGardener]

31. I don't agree with Moore in regard to the degree of "dark ages" he claims--

BUT religiously insane figures in politics, and religious interference in government and science, are certainly harmful. Maybe not to the extent of Islamic ruled nations, but it's becoming a hindrance to progress. And I'm not an atheist, either.

[TDale313]

32. Yeah, I think Moore's right, too.

[Bolo Boffin]

33. Deity bless him for it.

Radical Islam does more damage to the countries in which it exerts a measure of control over the government and the laws than it does to America. Radical Christians fulfill the same purpose here.

If the fundies of both religions realize they have a lot more in common than they have separating them, the world really will be up shit creek without a paddle.

#OPFail

[Thegonagle]

35. Pffft. Kind of like arguing which is worse to ingest,

a pound of cyanide, or a pound of arsenic.

They're both poisonous.

[lostincalifornia]

36. Actually, what Moore was arguing was that Maher was generalizing to all Muslims, not just radical

Islam. At least the was the point I thought he was trying to make.

Maher, was arguing that Islam is the only religious dogma that encourages terrorism. What Maher overlooked, and the other panelists did not bring up was examples like the crusades.

They did bring up examples such as the KKK, but they should have driven the point home to Maher by listing the church bombings, and other violence that was used against the African Americans, and other groups by groups that identified themselves as "christian"

[CrawlingChaos]

44. Absolutely, he was trying to distance himself from Maher's appalling Islamophobic bigotry

So was Valerie Plame.

The truth is, Maher is little more than Pamela Gellar Lite.

http://www.juancole.com/2012/09/muslims-are-no-different-or-why-bill-mahers-blood-libel-is-bigotry.html


http://www.wideasleepinamerica.com/2012/12/has-maher-the-not-so-new-depths-of-bill.html

[joeglow3]

85. If your examples are 700-800 years old, probably not good examples

just saying...

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. Did you miss the Church bombings?

And the KKK is still around. As well as the Christian Identity Movement

[joeglow3]

119. Never knew the KKK was endorsed by any Christian religion.

Regardless, then cite that. Not something 800 years old.

[white_wolf]

123. Al-qadia isn't "endorsed" either.

The members are Muslims and its leader was a self-declared cleric. There isn't any governing authority in Islam so there is nothing to do any endorsing. The same is true of Protestant Christianity and the KKK. Its members were Christians and I'm sure a few of its leaders were pastors.

[nadinbrzezinski]

131. When exactly was Al Qaida endorsed?

Free clue, the few imams who did are not unlike our Christian identity movement. Further two by four, they are fringe

[joeglow3]

144. True. Lack of condemnation instead

[nadinbrzezinski]

147. I have missed serious condemnation of the Christian Identity movement

On the other hand a simple google search would lead you to...gasp condemnation of Al Qaida by Mainstream Muslims.

Here you go

al qaeda condemned by mainstream muslims

That's your search Boolean string

[joeglow3]

152. Conversly, "Al qaeda SUPPORTED by mainstream muslims" leads to some staggering stats

That's your search Boolean string

[nadinbrzezinski]

154. I think you need some links.

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

You know, any form of racism is quite ugly. Islamophobia is no exception.

[kiawah]

108. That's exactly what I was thinking!

Hell - even having to reach back 60 years to come up with similar examples kind of proves Maher's point....

[Warpy]

38. Another agree for Moore

Some of us were alive and aware 60 years ago and remember what this country used to be.

It seems we were allowed to get rid of the regimented racial and sexual segregation in exchange for losing the country. We were pacified with social changes so we wouldn't know the greedy were going to rob us of everything else.

It's not just the religious right. It's the stripmining of this country's wealth by the few, impoverishing the many while degrading all infrastructure.

The religious right gave them the votes to put bought men into power.

The few social changes made sure the religious right stayed foaming at the mouth enraged as a way to get them to the polls year after year.

Now what are we going to do about it? Are we angry enough yet?

[Enthusiast]

45. Yes, we remember what the nation used to be like

before that damn Reagan started the downward spiral by tying the GOP to the radical religious right.

[BlueMTexpat]

39. A radical version of any creed

is damaging. Radical Christianity is every bit as damaging as radical Islam. Radical Christianity, however, has a lot more influence and power in the USA.

Just how do you come to the conclusion that Moore is sticking his foot in his mouth?

If only more would do the same?

[B Calm]

40. I agree with Moore too. eom

[Warren DeMontague]

42. If we're not in the dark ages, it's not for a lack of trying on the part of the religious right.

We have people in government who literally believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old. And who want to teach that in public school science classes.

Right Wing Republicans who take VERY seriously the teachings and "leadership" of Dominionists like Rushdoony, who advocate "Biblical Law" and stoning for "crimes" like blasphemy or being gay.

"Dark Ages" is too harsh?

Not really.

[freshwest]

73. Agreed. Add in Carnival Cruz, Joe Barton, et al. and it's a full crew...

[BlueCaliDem]

111. Agreed. GOP Paul Broun, a U.S. Rep from Georgia and a doctor, who sits on the science committee,

has dismissed evolution, the Big Bang theory, and embryology as "lies straight from the pit of hell". And it's on video!

In the clip, Broun, who is a doctor, says that "as a scientist" he has found data that shows the earth is no older than 9,000 years and was created in six days. Mainstream scientific thought holds that the earth is 4.5 billion years old, give or take the odd millennia.

What the HELL is he doing on the Science Committee in the U.S. House?!? He ran for re-election, unopposed by the Democratic Party, and won in 2012. Are Georgians in his district really this ignorant?

[kestrel91316]

117. + 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000

[Enthusiast]

43. I side with Michael Moore.

[RandiFan1290]

48. I remember the trolls howling when 'Fahrenheit 911' came out

They were all over DU trashing MM.
Of course Mike is right as usual.

[Ichingcarpenter]

49. Someone put their foot in their mouth again

and it wasn't Michael Moore

[City Lights]

74. Haha, that's exactly what I was thinking!

[AngryOldDem]

51. Michael Moore opens his big mouth...

...and is absolutely right.

Just look around. But I'm interested in hearing your counterargument.

[jollyreaper2112]

52. I think religion is toxic in general

Sam Harris is of the opinion that they are all poison but Christianity is like cyanide but Islam is like nerve agent. You wouldn't want either in your coffee but VX will kill you quicker and in smaller doses.

If I remember his position correctly, he feels Christianity was as toxic earlier but has mellowed some in old age while Islam is still young, potent and expansionist. And the doctrine is less amenable to peacefully settlin down with your neighbors. While the bible says many objectionable things, they are not believed as literally by as many adherents. There's more crazy per capita in Islam than Christendom at this point.

I will admit I have no time for religious people. I grew sick of Christianity and the Islamic have done nothing to win me over.

[G_j]

54. Thanks to Micheal Moore

for his big month!

[handmade34]

57. "Michael Moore opens his big mouth…"

and tells the truth once again!

Christians dogmatically believing in the apocalypse and "end of times" are every bit as destructive as Radical Muslims and their beliefs…

Radical Christians are keeping us in the "dark ages"

[99Forever]

60. Hmmmm...

... guess that OP didn't work out quite as you hoped, Archae.

Nice bucket o'fail tho.

BTW, magic isn't real.

[Paladin]

61. Moore is right, and it's a lesson I hope we've learned.

Democrats were dismissing the Tea Party as a bunch of no-account political kooks, when we should have been mobilizing against it. This is what happens when you underestimate your opposition's capacity for stupidity and hatred. I'd like to think we've learned something from all this---but then, I used to think we'd learned something from Viet Nam, as well.

[reddread]

62. Michael Moore, #1 conservative troll bait

The red flag to end all red flags.
they just cant help it.

[kydo]

63. Michael Moore opens his big mouth... and the truth comes out

I take it you are not a Michael Moore fan.

I agree with Moore on this.

All religion can be damaging. Christianity doesn't have a rosy everyone loves everyone history. Actually Christians tend to be against everything that is not from their particular version of Christianity. Many times Christians are worse then Muslims. I tend to be more leary of good Christians then any Muslim. Just look at baggers, they claim to be good Christians with good Christian values yet most have affairs, steal, lie, encourage violence, in still hate, and manufacture fear. What's good about that?

[treestar]

65. How have they taken over?

They influence, but they haven't taken over. From their point of view, everything is falling apart. Maher is right. Though with Islamic terrorism, it's not really about the religion but about politics.

[RagAss]

66. Big OP Fail.

When was MM wrong?

[notadmblnd]

67. So what did he say that you find offensive?

Because what you quoted is pretty much the truth.

[Mr Dixon]

68. IMO

Mr. Moore is right who can't see that?

[polichick]

69. He spoke the truth - good on Michael Moore!

[Puzzledtraveller]

70. +1 Maher

[joshcryer]

71. ITT people arguing for American exceptionalism.

Really!

[raccoon]

72. Too bad you can't ask Dr. George Tiller what he thinks of radical Xianity. nt

[IdaBriggs]

75. Strange. I agree with him, and don't feel this is a "foot-in-the-mouth" issue.

What did you find so inappropriate?

A quick scan of the comments shows that most people agree with my assessment. Please clarify.

[Autumn Colors]

76. Really? Are you sure you're on the right website?

Moore is absolutely correct and I agree with him 100% ... and I see that just about everyone responding to this thread does as well.

Would you care to explain what you disagree with here?

[Logical]

77. LOL, well, he is right. You are wrong! As you see now! nt

[Capt. Obvious]

80. He is absolutely right

[Ikonoklast]

82. The Radical Religious Right allied with Huge Money set this nation back an entire generation.

Moore is exactly correct.

[marmar]

83. Self-pwned by your own OP.

[City Lights]

122. LOL!

[reflection]

84. I dunno man.

When you look at the bizarre religious and anti-science stuff that comes out of some our lawmakers' mouths, I have a hard time disagreeing with him. Religion is driving a lot our public policy, when if anything, it should be a passive passenger. Congressmen quoting the Bible to justify cutting food stamps, deny women health care and all kinds of twisted nonsense.

[Archae]

86. Strange, I never hear Moore or his fan club mention his time at Mother Jones...

http://tinyurl.com/oqltsw4

[sibelian]

95. No need.

It's not really relevant to anything.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

109. Still trying to rescue your fail thread?

Lololol!

[madrchsod]

139. wow... a eureka vacuum cleaner for 89 bucks!

sorry i had to browse the rest of the paper.

[bluestate10]

87. Moore is right. Radical Christianity is as bad as radical Islam. nt

[NastyRiffraff]

88. Yet another agreement with Moore

I'm puzzled. Here's what Moore said:

Since 1980, "the policies of this country have been run by the Christian Right," Moore said. "They took over and they turned this country into the dark ages. And we are so far behind
now, with science, education, health care, everything."

What part of that is untrue? Sure, "dark ages" is, you know, hyperbole (for the vocabulary challenged that means exaggeration not meant to be taken literally). But It's true about the Christian right, and it's true that we are behind developed countries in science, etc.

[ProSense]

89. They're terrorists! n/t

[Greybnk48]

90. I agree with MM 100%.

This started in the 70's with the Moonies and then the "born agains" and it has been very damaging for our country; I would imagine for religion as well with many, myself included.

[ecstatic]

91. I saw the show and I felt bad for Al Sharpton

Maher and his guests were really nasty towards people of faith. What happened to respect and tolerance?

ETA: Not referring to that specific exchange, but the conversations that took place before.

[madrchsod]

138. that is why i don`t watch maher...

and that`s why i don`t watch fox news. neither have any respect for others people views that does`t fit their perceptions.

[raouldukelives]

92. I wish more Americans would stick that foot in their mouth. nt

[Iggo]

96. Moore's right.

[whatchamacallit]

97. Moore Bashing is a Dead Giveaway

FR is two doors down.

[madrchsod]

141. really? because we dare to criticize moore or maher we are freepers?

[Douglas Carpenter]

100. here is a video of that discussion - where Michael Moore pleads for a bit of understanding

[leftstreet]

102. Thanks for posting that n/t

[whatchamacallit]

105. I noticed in Religulous, Maher went after every religion but Judaism

As he gotten older, he displays more of his hardline islamophobic bent.

[Taverner]

101. I agree with Moore: Fanaticism IS the enemy

Whether it's fundie xianity, fundie islam, or fundie hassidism

[RC]

103. We need more Moore's

[narnian60]

112. +100 nt

[SoCalDem]

110. BFD.. Maher's show is all about opinions..

Right wingers loathe Michael Moore already and most of the powers that be on our side ignore him..

He's entitled to his opinion..ans I agree that ALL religion is caustic to a modern society..

Religion belongs in places of worship and in homes..and NOWHERE else.

[madrchsod]

142. that`s where it used to be before the republicans needed the religious conservatives.

i remember the old saying,never discuss politics or religion in a bar

[kestrel91316]

113. What did he get wrong? Fundamentalist christianity has destroyed this country.

[Tom Ripley]

115. Living in America, the radical Christian right has certainly fucked me over more than radical Islam

[kestrel91316]

118. Somebody's mask has slipped.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

124. Radical Christianity is far more damaging to most Americans than Radical Islam is.

This isn't difficult. How much influence does Radical Islam have in governing this country versus how much Radical Christianity has?

[ellenfl]

125. no doubt in my mind that the christian right has had a more deleterious affect

on america than radical muslims. the xtian right attacks from within, all the while proclaiming their 'patriotism'. lots of people getting drawn in to their agenda.

[peace13]

126. Thank you Michael for staying real.

I know that it can be lonely out there! Thank you!

[Laelth]

127. This has very little to do with religion.

Our problem is that we live in a society that has its economic wealth distributed about as fairly as it was in 1928 (or perhaps 1918). People get confused about cause and effect and often see causation when there is only correlation.

We on the left, I would argue, are far better Christians than our counterparts on the right. Mr. Moore erred in suggesting that Christianity had anything to do with the triumph of exploitative capitalism unrestrained by a healthy dose of Christian liberalism.

-Laelth

[Rex]

128. Yeah like anyone would expect you to say something good about MM.

All these years later and water is still wet. Yawn.

[Matariki]

129. Huh?

This OP

[SalviaBlue]

134. As usual, Michael Moore is absolutely right. NT

[MicaelS]

140. Moore is terrified he'll be called a racist...

If he criticizes Islam. I agree with Maher 100%.

"I think the point we always try to make is that liberals somehow feel worried that they're going to be called racist if they criticize people of the Muslim faith, which is stupid," Maher said on the show. "First of all, because it's not a racist, Muslim. It's a religion.

Either Moore is either terrified he'll be called a racist, or terrified some Muslims will call for his death if he criticizes Islam or the Prophet Mohammed.

[whatchamacallit]

146. Or

he's not as easily cowed into the crusade mindset as some Americans are.

[Iggo]

149. Or he thinks the christian right is fucking this country up.

And he's not alone, not by a long shot.

[Ken Burch]

145. A point about which Maher, at least as far as the U.S. is concerned, is totally wrong.

In this country, "radical Islam" is totally irrelevant as a political and cultural force, and pretty much always will be.

And even in Europe, the "danger" is vastly overstated.

[arthritisR_US]

148. I saw the exchange and frankly they are both

correct. Radical religious fundamentalism is destructive no matter the religious doctrine they cloak themselves in. In your country, Moore is quite right about the damage the religious right fundies have done to tear down your democratic principles at the expense of women, minorities and the poor. In the Middle East, it cannot be denied the destruction that fundamentalist Islam has meted out to the women and peoples there and so, Maher was correct as well, jmo.

[Fumesucker]

150. I must congratulate the OP on a brilliant ploy to bring attention to Michael Moore

[lunasun]

151. second strange post today

[idwiyo]

155. Moor is right, but Maher is right too.