I pay health insurance for lots of conditions I don't have

[BainsBane]

I pay for coverage for heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes--none of which I myself have. I pay for coverage for spinal cord injuries, bronchitis, kidney failure, and lung diseases. I pay for coverage for leukemia, breast cancer, testicular cancer, throat cancer, bone cancer, as well as lots and lots of diseases that I have been fortunate never to develop in my lifetime. I also pay for maternity coverage that I myself will never take advantage of. Why? Because that is what medical insurance is: it pools together funds across a population and spreads the risk. We never know what coverage we will eventually need, but we do know at some point in our lives we will need medical care of some type.

Why all this angst over paying for childbirth? Set aside the fact that we are liberals here who are supposed to have some concern for the broader society, as human beings we all have an interest in the propagation of the species. So what if your gender means you won't use certain types of medical services? There are a lot of medical services that, if you are fortunate, you will never need. No one uses every type of medical coverage. So what's with the belly aching about insurance companies having to cover birth control and child birth? Are the profits of the insurance companies really more important than your fellow citizens? And for those whose income is low enough to need government subsidies, why do liberals suddenly turn on each other because being female is no longer a pre-existing condition? Folks

[pnwmom]

1. You also are paying for being stitched back together again

after car accidents, sky-diving accidents, etc. -- which men have more of than women.

[Blaukraut]

2. Recommended. And thank you. n/t

[elleng]

3. So do we all, and we always have, that's INSURANCE!

Really,

[NYC_SKP]

4. Exactly. Thank you.

Recommended.

[russspeakeasy]

5. Thanks for the sanity.

[Whisp]

6. They aren't that stupid and ignorant

they are just throwing out a fishing line to get some people upset.

fuck em. ignore em. fart on em.

[ismnotwasm]

37. Heh!

[UtahLib]

59. LOL - I like the way you think.

I wish those who have demonstrated, numerous times, an uncontrollable urge to whine would stick a thumb in their mouths and leave it at that.

[BainsBane]

83. I'm not so sure

Perhaps they are just incredibly selfish?

[Vashta Nerada]

7. Yay. Sanity in a world full of insanity.

K and R.

[tammywammy]

8. Rec. n/t

[Packerowner740]

9. Don't we all pay for what we don't have or need currently?

Isn't that the definition of insurance?

I agree with you, what do they want, insurance is signed by gender?

[Nine]

10. "being female is no longer a pre-existing condition"

[CrispyQ]

27. Just think if we could apply that to everything!!!

What a wonderful world!

[Control-Z]

11. K & Rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec,

rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec, rec.

And thank you!!

[phleshdef]

12. The fact that people are missing is that women don't get pregnant without a man involved.

I mean, we do all understand how the birds and bees work right? Its perfectly fair for men to pay part of the childbirth burden when it comes to the health insurance pool. If a woman gets pregnant in the typical fashion, a man was also responsible for making that happen. I think this is the only argument that people need to make when men bitch about paying for maternity coverage.

[BainsBane]

16. I've made that same point in the past

and some of the people complaining actually have children! It's unreal.

[left coaster]

25. God.. THIS!

I point this out constantly, to people who keep acting like pregnancy/childbirth are the result of immaculate conception!

[CrispyQ]

13. Someone in the media or the blogosphere is complaining about this? Not on DU, right?

As a member of the human species, who would possibly be against paying for maternity & childbirth? Who?

Ok, so maybe the rabid right would oppose, but there are questions about their humanity, so they don't count. Just joking, about the humanity thing. Sort of.

[Lars39]

14. It's feeding time...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3939817

[BainsBane]

15. Actually they are complaining on DU

As crazy as that sounds. Here are a few. Apparently I've missed a lot over the past couple of days.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3939817



http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023940422

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10023938561

[ErikJ]

17. Being concerned for the health of your society is smart and patriotic.

[Warren DeMontague]

18. Yes, exactly. That's the entire idea behind insurance.

I think the "angst" is ... hmm, how shall I phrase it.

Maybe I shant phrase it, and will just leave the _______ to be filled in.

K&R to your OP. I agree 100%.

[BainsBane]

19. Their numbers are increasing

It's the strangest thing.

[thesquanderer]

20. I'm not sure it's a male-female thing

There is no complaint about covering breast cancer, etc. So if people are really complaining about covering childbirth, I think there is an element of pregnancy not being an illness, and being something you can choose. That is, you (usually, hopefully) choose to get pregnant, you largely have control over it, whereas you don't choose to get breast cancer. So then their argument is, hey, who said you can have a family on my dime? It's the same mind-set that is anti-welfare of all sorts.

[BainsBane]

21. Choice suggests you could do without it

We aren't talking about a face lift. This is the propagation of the human species. So while I personally can get by without having a baby, society cannot do without childbirth in general.
Mind you they are also complaining about women having coverage for birth control, which takes away the choice. I haven't seen any of them saying sex is unnecessary.

Some posters on this board have decided it is a male-female thing. You'd think that women were their mortal enemies, the way some people are acting.

[thesquanderer]

39. The babies will be born anyway.

re: "This is the propagation of the human species. So while I personally can get by without having a baby, society cannot do without childbirth in general. "

Babies will be born whether Obamacare covers childbirth or not. The human species is not going to die out for lack of insurance. Some of the Haves are just complaining about making it easier, safer, and healthier for the Have-Nots to reproduce. Big surprise there.

[BainsBane]

43. So we should have high infant morality rates and deaths in childbirth

because you're cheap? You're one of the few in this thread who has raised objection to maternity coverage. I guess you don't intend on having heterosexual sex at any point in you lifetime. If you want to wash your hands of childbirth, you can't participate in the act that creates those babies.
Of course the whole position is hypocritical since you yourself benefited from medical care upon your own birth.

[thesquanderer]

53. I think you mixed me up with someone else. Or didn't read carefully?

re: "You're one of the few in this thread who has raised objection to maternity coverage"

I never objected it to at all, nor would I. I explained what I thought the rationale behind the objection was, which is where I thought some of the other posts missed the mark. But then, I think made pretty obvious that I still thought the position was, shall we say, misguided.

[BainsBane]

54. Okay, then I apologize

but from what I've read, gender is very much at the heart of this dispute, though I think that is misguided.

[JDPriestly]

84. Nowadays, pre-natal care can make the difference between a healthy child who can live and

take care of him- or herself and contribute to society or an unhealthy child who, although certainly a joy to many especially his or her parents, will always be dependent and lead a very limited life.

Nowadays, doctors can operate in utero (before birth) to correct a number of conditions that used to mean inevitable birth "defects."

So pre-natal care is really important.

[BainsBane]

85. Absolutely

Extended health coverage through ACA should reduce child mortality in this country.

I'm thinking you intended to respond to the other poster.

[seabeyond]

29. who else participates in this whole pregnancy thing? or is it really only the woman that is involved

in it?

since we know it is not ONLY a woman that is involved in getting preg, though the one taking ALL the risks, how do men pay their share of conception?

[jeff47]

67. 40 years ago, this might have been practical.

My parents bred their dog and sold the puppies to pay for the births of my sister and me.

That's not exactly practical today. The bills for each of my kids were more than $40k before insurance.

Now, in your not-paid-by-insurance world, I could presumably negotiate with the doctors and hospitals to negotiate that down. But my insurance company can negotiate much better than I can.

The alternative is some sort of cut-rate birthing center, which would presumably lead to complications that would be covered by insurance.

[Arugula Latte]

75. There are a lot of choices that affect health -- food, drink, smoking, exercise.

It's interesting that so many focus in on pregnancy.

[thesquanderer]

78. But which are "conditions"?

Pregnancy is a condition requiring care, for which you would want coverage.

Eating, drinking, smoking, exercise, are not conditions, and so "coverage" per se does not apply. The things that may be caused by an excess of those things (in whole or in part), however, are covered... diabetes(?), liver disease, lung cancer, heart attacks.

But that does lead to an interesting question. Are weight loss treatments themselves, alcoholism treatments (detox programs), nicotine patches and the like covered?

[peace13]

22. I pay for wars that I don't want and....

..and education that is inferior. These things are immoral to me. So get over it kids. Insure people for all conditions. You don't get to nit pick the care of others!

[kestrel91316]

23. Liberals don't turn on each other over this.

Non-liberals, however, find it a great way to start flame wars on liberal boards.

Lots of concern about the poor, disadvantaged, put upon men who now have to suffer the indignities of a more level playing field.

[BainsBane]

26. In general

but one OP is by a woman, strangely enough.

[kestrel91316]

28. Or perhaps that one isn't actually a woman, lol.

Perhaps this overt misogyny is a "tell".

[BainsBane]

44. If only misogyny were confined to men alone

Last edited Tue Oct 29, 2013, 09:22 AM - Edit history (2)

Sadly, that is not so. That thread, however, is a particularly strange example of it.

[Warren DeMontague]

41. Exactly. Perhaps someone saw that it's easy to get DU spun up around gender issues.

I highly doubt there are too many men who otherwise would support the ACA, who are all of a sudden expressly concerned over this particular aspect.

[ismnotwasm]

46. I think sometimes people are in no condition to-- think things through--let's say.

It's the strangest thing

[Warren DeMontague]

47. Indeed.

I think you nailed it.

[riderinthestorm]

24. rec nt

[cui bono]

30. And who is the part of the cause of impregnation? Men.

And how many pregnancies and childbirths are to women who are married to men? Men who are going to have that child as part of their family?

How selfish to not be willing to allow women that coverage when they need it.

Plus, as a homeowner my property taxes go to schools and I don't have kids. There's so much we pay for that we don't use because we are a collective. It's known as the commons, we all pay in and use what we need. It's a We society instead of a Me society. (props to Thom Hartmann for those terms and the wording)

[Nac Mac Feegle]

31. I look at this way,

I'll help out with your childbirth expenses if you will help out with my prostate cancer treatments.

We're all in this together.

[BainsBane]

34. Of course prostate cancer treatment must be covered

but it's not "my pregnancy." Do you have children? If not, you were born at some point. You've either impregnated women or used medical services to come into the world, or both. We are all in this together.

[ismnotwasm]

36. Let's all just stop breeding

Then the human race can dwindle to its apparently well deserved (to some) demise

[BainsBane]

38. Apparently its continuation is now elective

On par with cosmetic surgery. By that logic, coverage for car accidents is elective. You could have stayed in the house rather than getting in a car.

[ismnotwasm]

40. Yes

No kids dammit, that would also solve the problem of schools--and get off my lawn---eventually it would solve all problems came to think of it. At least human ones

How can I wrap my mind around that level of.--disconnect? I can't. I just can't

[seabeyond]

52. I really think he was saying we all pool together. He chose prostate cancer without know

About the screening issue and those claiming the unfairness. That is how I read his post.

or

i could be wrong, lol

[Warren DeMontague]

42. What if you're someone who overconsumes .... say, pizza?

You keep eatin' those pizzas.

Why should the rest of us have to pay for all those pizzas you keep getting served?

[ismnotwasm]

49. That actually an excellent point

As a number of conditions and diseases are preventable, or the odds of developing them reducible.

Shall we start penalizing people when they do develop them because of lifestyle choices?

I think not.

[Warren DeMontague]

51. Yeah, I mean once you try to go down the road of picking and choosing, etc. it'll never end.

There are vegans who have multiple sex partners. Non-smokers who ride motorcycles fast. Etc. etc.

I've always felt the most sound thing to do- not just ethically, but financially- would be to have a SPHC system; spread the risk out equally and fairly among the largest pool possible.

Certainly there are things that are detrimental to peoples' health; with something like smoking I think public education and taxes are the way to go, along with minimizing the impact of 2nd hand smoke by regulating it in indoor, public spaces- etc.

But I do think it's a fool's errand to try to pick and choose with something like insurance.

[BainsBane]

66. Many employers have incentives for healthy living

Join weight watchers, go to the gym 3 x a week, walk 10,000 steps, you get money off your health insurance. The difference is that it's a voluntary incentive; it's not discriminatory.

[kcr]

50. Where are these posts that say pregnancy should be covered but not prostate cancer?

I haven't seen a one. But I've seen more than one of the opposite, sadly.

[Hekate]

61. Wee Free Man that you are, I'm sure you know that women have *always* had to pay for men's care

It has just gone without saying that men's health care will be covered, including especially their man-parts, up to and including Viagra. Has any health care benefit plan ever excluded prostate cancer treatments?

Somehow, though, when it comes to women's lady-parts, insurers come all over squeamish and tight-pursed. A huge number of benefit plans have left it entirely to the woman to pay out of pocket for birth control, pregnancy, and childbirth.

What's wrong with this picture?

[niyad]

32. k and r--it is absolutely disgusting that on a supposedly "democratic" board, the actual nature

of insurance should even have to be explained. thought that concept was basic, but, apparently not. AND to discover that people are whining about women actually getting fair coverage???? beyond disgusting. sadly, though, it is not in the least surprising.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

33. I know what you mean, I pay for car insurance and should get every single DIME of that money back...

So I guess what you need to do is total yourself.

[ismnotwasm]

35. I started three times to reply to that thread

I looked up financial resources, what is actually happening with the ACA, but the complete illogic just made throw my hands up.

My husband has Multiple Sclerosis and is on disability, although my insurance is primary. You're paying for him as well and I thank you (and everyone else) for it

[mercuryblues]

45. selfish

extremely selfish spoiled brats is what they are. They are the type that complains about paying school taxes, after their children have graduated.

I went to a school open house where a parent was complaining that the crayons she bought were for her daughter only and was upset to find out that the teacher put the crayons in the group container for groups of 4 to use. Outrage over a 30 cent box of crayons.

Some people have to be outraged over something. Selfishness seems to be leaking out of the teaparty.

[BainsBane]

65. all the more incomprehensible

when it's so-called liberals displaying that selfishness.

[gussmith]

48. Too Many

It is really not too well planned, this health care thing. You need a major medical on top of Medicare, then separately a dental plan, a health club plan, an eye care plan, long term care plan..... and others not on my menu.

[BainsBane]

55. Support single payer

That is the solution to the problem you describe.

[gussmith]

58. All for It

We take so long to get to the solution in this country.

[JDPriestly]

56. We have paid homeowners' insurance for over 25 years and never used it.

We don't pay for what we use. We pay just in case we might use it.

That's what insurance is about.

We pay for people who make more claims than we do and who have potential liabilities larger than ours. Why? Because we are only two people. Our children don't live with us any more. We have fewer opportunities to incur claims, but our insurance rates don't change just because we don't have as many opportunities for claims.

You may not have children, but you may have problems that cost more than children do.

[SheilaT]

57. I am personally the most annoyingly healthy person out there.

I could easily get all resentful about the health insurance premiums I've paid over the years. Instead, I try to appreciate my amazing good health.

Being sick is its own punishment. Even though I scorn those who smoke, often have little sympathy with those who are obese, and can denigrate all sorts of conditions I think are preventable, I still think that those people deserve as much health care as they need. So what if others make poor decisions? We can work on getting people to make better decisions, but meanwhile let's take care of whatever ails them.

Yes, only women have babies. But not all women have babies. This is a lot like the taxes for schools issues. I can get mightily angry at those without children who complain about school taxes. First of all, I want to point out that someone else's taxes helped educate them. And no matter how many children you might have, most adults only have kids in public schools for a small portion of their tax-paying life. Having a well-educated populace benefits us all. As does having good health care benefit us all.

It's my personal opinion that we are here to take care of each other. So let's do that.

[Phentex]

63. It's a very basic concept

Whether it's education or health care, transportation, security...we take care of each other. Not wanting to do this is a republican outlook.

[Hekate]

60. Thank you for the sanity, BainsBane

wtf indeed

[riverbendviewgal]

62. health insurance is more important than life and auto insurance

My son and husband were diagnosed with cancers 2 months apart. They were 24 and 51. Yhey had never been seriously sick. It was sudden. No warnings of ill health

We have one payer up here so we could concentrate on their healthband not worry about bills.

My son had Glioblastma Multiform brain tumour and his dad had Non Hodgkins lymphoma.

[BainsBane]

64. You must find all of this bizarre

[riverbendviewgal]

70. Not just me but most of my Cdn Friends

Our PM harper would love to go the US way (before Obamacare) but he knows his party would be massacred in the next election.
No one dares to touch our health care.

[stevenleser]

68. A healthy sense of empathy is a basic requirement to be on the political left.

The behavior of those arguing against this is totally lacking in empathy.

Conservatives mock us for our empathy. Empathy is something they don't completely get. I expect that from them. Not from fellow DUers.

[BainsBane]

69. I would have thought that the most basic of liberal values

It would never in a million years have occurred to me than any liberal or Democrat would oppose something as basic as medical coverage for childbirth and birth control.

[Skittles]

93. I agree with this assessment

there is an underlying tone of real ugliness to some of these WHY SHOULD I PAY FOR posts; simply put, they seem to be channeling conservatives

[distantearlywarning]

71. I am very, very child-free, and even *I* agree with you.

Why are people so mean to one another these days?

[BainsBane]

73. same here

but I have an interest in a healthy population and propagation of the human species. How can anyone be so miserly yet claim to be a liberal?

[Arugula Latte]

72. Misogyny and hatred of women runs deep ... even on DU.

[BainsBane]

74. Yes, and I think in some cases

people create online caricatures of themselves that exacerbate such views.

[valerief]

76. K&R. nt

[BlueStreak]

77. I have wasted thousands of dollars on car insurance, and I haven't even had any wrecks recently

I demand my money back.

[Sophiegirl]

79. But....but....but....

Health insurance covers the cost of Viagra. I guess that's okay, eh?

[Coexist]

80. We all do.

thats how risk pools work

[BainsBane]

81. For some reason, that concept eludes some.

[AAO]

82. "So what if your gender means you won't use certain types of medical services?"

True, but what if some day, some how, a man gets pregnant. He'll thank his lucky starts for his pre and post natal care. He will REALLY appreciate an epidural.

I could go on.....

[SunSeeker]

86. K & R

[tweeternik]

87. Well said. n/t

[Sparkly]

88. I pay for the public schools and have no children attending them.

I pay for roads I never drive on.

I pay for libraries I don't visit.

I pay for weapons of mass destruction that I don't believe should exist.

When I go to "all you can eat" buffets, I can never eat enough to get what I've paid for.

Blah blah blah blah.... We all have bodies, and health insurance should cover whatever is necessary for health, period. When did Americans become so selfish?!

[Rebl]

89. Thanks

For the voice of reason.

[Turborama]

90. Only 1 poster has been angst ridden over that, and started a flame fest

Hardly "liberals turning on each other", if you're talking about this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023939817

Unless I missed something?

[BainsBane]

91. Yeah, you have missed something

I don't believe there are a lot, but there have been enough to cause a stir.

There have been several threads. I came upon this controversy last night and missed much of it myself. Here are a few.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3939817


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023940422

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10023938561

[IronLionZion]

92. For the guys who want to see how it benefits them

as a straight male I figure I may eventually have a wife and maybe a daughter or more, and I would want them to have a fair price for health insurance. Lower rates encourage more to sign up, and use it for checkups. And most of us understand the importance of preventive checkups for a person's overall well-being and lowers costs over time by catching problems early on. Women who get regular checkups are probably going to have conversations about stuff like std prevention and testing, as well as family planning and other important issues. Women who are more informed are less likely to catch an std or have unwanted pregnancy, and that lowers costs. And I would certainly want pregnant women to have access to prenatal care because that would lead to healthier children and lower costs.

The ACA makes it more affordable to have females in your life in many ways.

And of course if you don't need that much direct benefit to be convinced, you'll be happy with the old mantra that everyone benefits when EVERYONE benefits and we're only as strong as our weakest link so no one gets left behind.

[ReRe]

94. Is there such an insurance that you can pick and choose what you want to be covered for?

Yes, through the company job we have several different options. But really, who gets to pick and choose to that extent on what they want to be insured for? Hell, to my knowledge, they still won't let you pick the cable channels you want. You have to buy a "package." Can one really say "I want this and this and this," as if from a cafe menu? I'm definitely not one of the "Me-Me-Me" people who are griping about having to pay for a service I will never need. If someone is doing that on this board, they are not a Democrat, BainsBane. they are a Republican troll. Let it go in one eye and out of the other.

[BainsBane]

95. That's a good point

I think it's a regulation on the insurance companies in terms of what they can offer. People sure are complaining a lot. Maybe they've been watching Fox News?