Merkel: US Spying Has Shattered Allies' Trust

[Purveyor]

BRUSSELS (AP) — European leaders united in anger Thursday as they attended a summit overshadowed by reports of widespread U.S. spying on its allies — allegations German Chancellor Angela Merkel said had shattered trust in the Obama administration and undermined the crucial trans-Atlantic relationship.

The latest revelations that the U.S. National Security Agency swept up more than 70 million phone records in France and may have tapped Merkel's own cellphone brought denunciations from the French and German governments.

Merkel's unusually stern remarks as she arrived at the European Union gathering indicated she wasn't placated by a phone conversation she had Wednesday with President Barack Obama, or his personal assurances that the U.S. is not listening in on her calls now.

"We need trust among allies and partners," Merkel told reporters in Brussels. "Such trust now has to be built anew. This is what we have to think about."

"The United States of America and Europe face common challenges. We are allies," the German leader said. "But such an alliance can only be built on trust. That's why I repeat again: spying among friends, that cannot be."

MORE...

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/us-spying-has-shattered-allies-trust-merkel

[Tarheel_Dem]

1. "Stern remarks" aside, what are they gonna do about it? What can they do?

[Purveyor]

7. I know right? We are so f'n badass all we need to do is 'laugh' at those powerless misfits.

Who the hell do they think they are, anyway?

[geek tragedy]

10. Withhold cooperation and sharing of intelligence. nt

[KittyWampus]

2. LOL! Germany took over NSA operations in their country and expanded it.

[libdem4life]

14. Sovereignty. Their people have an impact and a legal vote on their policies.

[Uncle Joe]

3. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Purveyor.

[Cali_Democrat]

4. Who benefits most from a "shattered" trans-Atlantic relationship? China and Russia.

Snowden fled to Hong Kong (a Chinese protectorate) and then Russia.

Coincidence?

[Savannahmann]

15. Yeah here is the pickle.

If we weren't spying on our allies, then that relationship wouldn't be harmed, and Russia and China wouldn't be looking to profit from our arrogance.

That is the rub. It is our actions that have precipitated this disaster of international relations because we didn't stop to question if we should do something just because we can.

[Cali_Democrat]

16. True. There are questions, but there are also agendas

It's important to not only examine the questions about NSA, but also the agendas of the players involved in not only the spying, but the release of information.

[Savannahmann]

20. The problem is that it is the wrongdoing that is the issue.

Imagine this for a moment. A man is headed into a restaurant for his wife's birthday party. The wife intercepts him and demands to know if he slept with Linda, her friend. He is outraged that Linda told on this day. That is what the posts objecting to the timing sound like. Sure he cheated on his wife, but telling her on her Birthday was just wrong.

Of course they are timing the stories. This way they get outraged politicians and keep the story going for another couple days, or weeks, with battling quotes. Secretary Kerry isn't over there for anything more important than grip and grin photo ops. No treaties are in the works except small arms in the UN which won't clear the Senate, and the TPP which sadly will. The TPP is the Pacific, which doesn't have much to do with Europe. So kneecapping as you say does what except embarrass us which we should be because we are the ones who cheated on Mary with Linda.

[Cha]

18. No, it's no fucking "coincidence".

[Uncle Joe]

5. This paragraph reminds me of what the definition of "is" is.

Merkel's unusually stern remarks as she arrived at the European Union gathering indicated she wasn't placated by a phone conversation she had Wednesday with President Barack Obama, or his personal assurances that the U.S. is not listening in on her calls now.

[Purveyor]

9. I've been scanning the foreign press via roku more than usual today and this spying allegation

has been the 'top of the hour' all day.

[Uncle Joe]

13. I'm not surprised it totally rips the B.S. figleaf off the naked crotch of

"we're doing it to fight terrorism."

It also brings home as to why the 4th Amendment should be regarded as a most precious civil right.

As they abuse the system to wiretap the phones of the leaders; governing our "free world allies," one would be a fool to believe they're not already or won't do the same thing here in the U.S. for political and corporate reasons.

[DrDan]

6. I can't say I blame her

[woo me with science]

8. Huge K&R. This isn't just personal violations. We now have evidence

not only of US mass surveillance of its own citizens, but now also use of the NSA for corporate spying:

The NSA spied on the Italian government and companies, for reasons beyond terrorism.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023914591

This is subversion of the powers of a Democratic government to serve corporate interests.

This sounds very much like the behavior of corporate fascism.

[Uncle Joe]

11. "Corporate interests" you nailed it woo me with science.

[leftstreet]

12. DURec

[Autumn]

17. Guess what Merkel? US spying has shattered the trust of

a hell of a lot of it's own citizens in their government. Spying on your own citizens, that cannot be. But there it is.

[treestar]

19. Grandstanding, since I'm sure it's always been the case

You spy on allies to make sure you find out if they are going to stop being allies.

This has been going on since the dawn of the nation state.

Why would we ever trust the Germans enough to let down our guard regarding them?

[Uncle Joe]

21. Because Merkel is Hitler?

Why would we ever trust the Germans enough to let down our guard regarding them?

[treestar]

23. No, but you never know

We have WWI and WWII and we have to watch out before they start WWIII. Maybe they've calmed down now and gotten over the we-must-conquer-the-world thing.

[Fumesucker]

25. I think the Germans may have adequately tamed their warlike tendencies

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/05/german-police-used-only-85-bullets-against-people-2011/52162/

German Police Used Only 85 Bullets Against People in 2011

According to Germany's Der Spiegel, German police shot only 85 bullets in all of 2011, a stark reminder that not every country is as gun-crazy as the U.S. of A. As Boing Boing translates, most of those shots weren't even aimed anyone: "49 warning shots, 36 shots on suspects. 15 persons were injured, 6 were killed."

[RobertEarl]

22. Right, huh?

Now if Merkel was an American we wouldn't be spying on her cuz we don't spy on Americans. Oh, wait....

[treestar]

24. spying on foreigners is different

Isn't that supposed to be what they are for? And you can bet they spy on us. And have a lot more they can get from us.

When it comes to a foreign leader, what have they got to hide? And why couldn't they figure it out and stop it? More pertinent, surely they already knew? They didn't need Eddie Snowden and the gang to let them know.