Box cutter used to kill teacher

[graywarrior]

(snip)
Danvers, Massachusetts (CNN) -- The details are unsettling: a teacher killed, sources say, with a box cutter in a bathroom of the school where she loved to teach; her 14-year-old student picked up and accused in the death hours later, allegedly after cleaning up, he hit a fast food restaurant and took in a movie.



http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/24/justice/massachusetts-danvers-school-killing/

Danvers is down the road from me.

[closeupready]

1. While I can't bring myself to read this story in detail,

can someone enlighten me, is there any information about whether there is a context to this crime - was he a student of hers? How well did they know each other? Or was this simply a crime of opportunity? Is substance abuse suspected?

Very, VERY tragic.

[graywarrior]

3. He had just moved to the area after living in Tennessee and Florida

Still not clear whether he was in her class or not.

[MADem]

6. He was. He often sat in the back, was no trouble, took notes, sometimes drew, and

sometimes used earphones to listen to music.

Shit's changed since I went to school--paying attention wasn't optional back in the dark ages...!

[graywarrior]

20. No shit, huh?

[MADem]

22. Damn right!

Of course, all that smoking in the bathrooms, causing trouble out back of the school, and all the other things members of old-school classes would indulge in couldn't happen either nowadays, we didn't have all this 'video surveillance' of every aspect of our day!

The rare school day footage that might surface would be from some kid stealing his parents' Super 8 film camera, or a proud parent filming a few minutes of a "big game."

[bettyellen]

39. Ha ha, kids smoke and drink on premises in many schools these days in the underfunded cities.

happens constantly starting in 4-5th grade, even in my old Catholic school. Maybe the burbs have surveillance everywhere, it;s certainly not the case in poorer schools.

[MADem]

45. Danvers--though once known for its insane asylum--is a fairly well off suburban community.

The insane asylum, aka "lunatic hospital" was on the Register of Historic Places, but that didn't stop a developer from tearing it down. Pity. It was a remarkable building.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danvers_State_Hospital

But there are 200 functioning cameras at the high school in Danvers, and the police have the video. This is how they know the kid was covered in blood when he came out of the bathroom, this is how they know that HE did it, this is how he knows that the kid used gloves.

Apparently, per CBS news, he was held after school for "drawing during algebra class." Don't know if that set him off, or what...?

[graywarrior]

60. There was a recent murder at the former Danvers Mental Institute now ritzy apartments & condos

[MADem]

68. Yeah, someone started a huge fire and burnt part of the site down a few years back

according to reports.

Apparently the "new" and "luxury" apartments are shitholes, too!!!

http://www.danversstateinsaneasylum.com/chronicles.html

[graywarrior]

70. I used to teach art therapy to the criminally insane in the 70s up there.

That place was creepy as hell. Talk about American Horror Story.

[MADem]

71. Cue the DARK SHADOWS theme!!!! nt

[graywarrior]

72. Quentin!

Oouu lala!

[MADem]

82. One of my siblings was entranced by that show!! Barnabas Collins...and Quentin as well!!!

[lordsummerisle]

105. I worked there as well

As a psych tech back in the 80s.

[graywarrior]

106. Wow, amazing!

I wish I still had some of the drawings the patients made.

[MannyGoldstein]

107. No way! I was held there during most of the 80s!

Last edited Fri Oct 25, 2013, 09:32 PM - Edit history (1)

Small world.

(ok, just kidding)

[lordsummerisle]

108. Are you kidding about

working there or that it's a small world...?

[MannyGoldstein]

109. I was trying to make a joke about

my being a resident there, but obviously it was a dumb joke (and possibly in bad taste to boot).

I was never a resident or staff member.

[bettyellen]

85. gosh , suburbia is like another world. most public city schools are nothing like that.

they try to keep weapons out, but that's about it. there's no money.

[MADem]

87. Weapons aren't a big deal in MA. Yes, there are shootings, but it's not like other parts of the

country; gun violence is not as common here. This kid had a boxcutter; people use those in art class to cut mattes, so I dunno if anyone would have gotten too upset over that.

Many public schools have gone to the massive surveillance systems post-Columbine. They're not terribly obvious but they have decent coverage. I had a cousin who taught in an inner city school that didn't have toilet paper some days, but they had a surveillance system. It's the new normal...

[bettyellen]

88. one friend teaches english in NYC- never a single textbook for the kids, and classrooms break the

fire code law by being 20% over capacity. she pays to make copies of handouts herself and other supplies. it's a mess.
the school knows they are breaking all the laws and do not want to hear about it.

[Blue_Tires]

31. I've seen instances of teachers not caring about potential 'problem students'

doing their own thing in the back of class as long as they weren't a disruption for everyone else...

But yeah, listening to music is a whole new ballgame...

[Chemisse]

58. I used to daydream, sneak reading and write stories in class

I got in trouble for it a lot, but it was doable.

That was many decades ago. Things don't change all that much.

[knitter4democracy]

74. Most kids who use headphones use them to concentrate on their work.

I allow it during silent work times and during tests/quizzes when students with focus issues need help tuning out everything else around them.

[joshcryer]

89. Yeah, nothing like a droning non-lyrical techno piece to close you in.

You forget everything but the work, be it writing, or doing math, whatever.

[Fumesucker]

93. Droning, non-lyrical instructors are pretty damn effective at that too..

[joshcryer]

94. At keeping you from wanting to do the work.

I agree.

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. Apparently she asked him to stay after school

so she could help him with some sort of math work.

This is just so sickening.

[FarCenter]

17. Bad idea for a high school teacher to ever be alone with a student.

[JI7]

24. i think it's very common for high school teachers to be alone with students at school to help

as long as it's in the school. usually places like the classroom which it was in this case.

[FarCenter]

41. For personal safety, and to eliminate questions of impropriety, it shouldn't happen

After school help should be given in a study hall or library where multiple teachers or other staff are present.

[JI7]

42. it's something that has been happening for decades with no problems, but i can see things changing

for some schools, or at least this specific one after what happened.

[FarCenter]

44. Formerly, schools would expell students who were trouble.

If you are going to keep dangerous young men in school, you have to take precautions.

[knitter4democracy]

76. We still do.

They go to alternative high schools like the one I used to teach in.

[knitter4democracy]

75. That's often not possible.

We are to keep our doors open at all times, but yes, there's a risk.

[Yo_Mama]

28. Good God, it happens all the time

If you ask a student to stay after class to talk to him/her, you aren't going to be asking what are sometimes personal questions in front of other people!

[Chemisse]

59. It happens daily.

I'm certainly not going to tell a student I am too scared of him to meet with him after school unless we meet in a public place (not to mention he could hardly make up a lab outside of the science room), especially when something like this is so exceedingly rare.

Kids usually want to do the right thing. Expecting the worst of them is to invite the worst to happen.

[knitter4democracy]

77. Exactly. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

I can only think of one time when a student scared me after school with a threat--and I've taught some pretty rough kids.

[MADem]

10. He was a student in her class. He followed her into the bathroom and killed her.

They've got video of him (200 cameras in the school) and they have video of him using her card to buy fast food and going to the movies.

Nothing about substance abuse.

Nothing about knowing her outside the classroom.

He apparently got it in his head to go after her for some reason; the result was he killed her and dumped her body (transporting it to the woods in a recycling container, kicking leaves over her remains).

[closeupready]

14. Wow. That definitely sounds like some kind of mental illness.

[graywarrior]

21. I used to substitute teach in Lynn

This freaks me out so bad.

[MADem]

26. City of sin!!!!!

I have friends in Lynn....!

Before this, I always thought that "Danvers" was best known for one of the finest Wedding Day Family Fights outside of fiction. Now, sadly, it has taken on a more unsavory and sad context.

I won't leave you in suspense about the wedding fight:

http://danvers.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/large-fight-at-wedding-reception-results-in-two-arrests

...Patrolman Scott Frost's report stated the situation began, according to employees, when the groom began yelling at an employee when his brother was denied a drink at the bar.

Then, when a member of the bride's family asked him to calm down, he grew more enraged, punched a wall and began tearing the coat room apart, as well as punching the bride's brother, the Salem News stated. Subsequently, the groom's mother, DeIorio, started attacking the bride's mother...Once the police placed DeIorio in the cruiser, she got her cuffed hands in front of her and was pounding on the window, while her mother, the groom's grandmother, was demanding that police release her, according to the Salem News.

[graywarrior]

34. LMAO! I remember that!

Just reading it in the Salem News cracked me up! Weren't they from Lynn?

[MADem]

36. Re-veeee-ah!!!!

And Wrassling Ma, apparently, is "bad with dates!!!"

DANVERS — It’s probably a night she’d rather forget, but a mother charged after a wild wedding reception last May at the Danversport Yacht Club still has several charges hanging over her head.

Darlene DiIorio, the mother of the groom, allegedly brawled with the mother of the bride, threw furniture and slapped a bartender.

DiIorio, 45, of Revere, was supposed to appear in Salem District Court for a hearing in her case, but failed to show up. It’s not the first time; DiIorio missed a clerk’s hearing where additional charges were being sought, and failed to show up to court for several months last fall.

DiIorio did make a court appearance in December, not long after a Salem News reporter called to ask her where she had been. During that hearing, a judge lifted the warrants and told her to return to court yesterday.

But yesterday, new warrants were issued after DiIorio failed to answer when her name was called two different times during the morning session.

Her lawyer, Mark Barry, told a reporter that DiIorio is “bad with dates.”

http://www.salemnews.com/local/x1503757375/Mom-from-wild-Danvers-wedding-misses-court/print

[graywarrior]

37. Of course!

Hey, did you see this? I probably shouldn't post this in this thread, but...I'm from Lynn.

and this

&src_vid=dc3MmThj_PU&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_834078

[MADem]

49. How cruel!!! How hilarious!!!

Everyone knows someone who would fit right into that group....!

[graywarrior]

61. Absolutely!

[Marrah_G]

55. omfg ..... LOLOLOLOLOL

I hate you! I have the flu and coughing hurts and laughing makes me cough and omg lolololol.

[graywarrior]

62. Southis are original, thats for sure

[RiffRandell]

67. No kidding!

Reminds me of the movie The Town and the Blake Lively scene when she says "Do I look like I got in a fight?" That would be me, as I've had some "incidents" in my time.

Really sad story...saw Dan Abrams on GMA today discussing it.....jesus what a shame.

[MannyGoldstein]

86. I hate you.

Just as I'm dozing off... this. Can't sleep for at least a half hour after laughing that hard.

#%^*.

Ah, but it was worth it. Thanks!

[graywarrior]

101. You're worth it, MannyGoldstein!

Glad that gave you the giggles.

[Cha]

90. I can only imagiine being that close to it. It's just so heartbreakingly

sad for Colleen Ritzer ..

[graywarrior]

100. The horror that poor girl had to face. It must have been so frightening.

[WinkyDink]

63. I'll reiterate: Aren't security cameras for surveillance IN REAL TIME ? As in, preventative or at

least swift apprehension?

[MADem]

65. Reiterate? When did you say that to me initially?

The answer is no, they aren't. No one is necessarily watching the screens around the clock.

The apprehension was swift BECAUSE they knew, straight away, who did it. They saw him on video.

[WinkyDink]

102. Heh. Not to you; it was anyone who read my remark in another thread. But I'm sorry; schools ( where

I spent 30 years) have hired all sorts of security personnel over the years. ONE of those employees can certainly watch the camera screens, as happens in banks and stores.

And apprehension after a murder, rather than prevention of the murder? Small victory.

[MADem]

103. Phew! I thought I was having lapses of some sort!!!

I have relatives who (still, currently) work in a suburban school system not unlike Danvers, same demographics, about the same sized town, in MA--there are no guards, there's just a cop who comes by when the kids arrive and leave, to direct traffic and make sure no perverts slip in the door, and the video system is pretty much on autopilot. The principal and assistants and the office staff have access to it, but it just rolls along, pretty much. The janitors are pretty vigilant, and they will say something if there's something amiss. If anyone wants to come into the school, they have to get buzzed in by someone at the front office. I've been in the school(s) fairly recently and seen this--this isn't third-hand information.

I had another relation who retired a few years back, who used to work in what people would call the "inner city," and the situation there was different--there were school guards, that patrolled, and that watched monitors. But the dynamic in that school was much, MUCH different--there were creeps right outside trying to sell drugs to the kids, there was a gang element about, some kids carried weapons for protection, it wasn't a "Mom in SUV dropping kids off" type place, the kids either walked or took a public bus or the T--it just was a different vibe. You couldn't get in the school YARD without being challenged by a guard, but like I said, different vibe.

[ananda]

2. That is such a bizarre case to me.

i cant see a motive.

[graywarrior]

5. Especially since he went to a movie and a fast food place to eat right after

Police found him walking on route 1 right down the road from me.

[ananda]

8. Wow.

That's kinda creepy.

[MADem]

13. Extreme mental illness? Thrill killing? Psychopathic conduct?

Who knows--it'll all come out in time. It won't bring that young teacher back, though, who by all accounts was a lovely person... which is the real shame here.

Not enough women in maths and sciences, and now there's one less...

[WinkyDink]

64. Extrapolating, I'm seeing a poorly-educated kid bouncing around the South and then MA. Frustrated

to the max. Zero social or any other skills.

[MADem]

4. What an horrific crime. He killed her, dumped her in the woods, stole her credit card

and went for fast food, and went to the movies. No remorse. Like a frigging machine.

She was a young woman, a relatively new and not-yet-jaded teacher from Andover who apparently didn't have a mean bone in her body.

The kid is being tried as an adult--which is kind of uncommon for MA, but I suppose the heinousness of the crime influenced them.

[ananda]

9. So.

Did he just suddenly turn into some kind
of psychopath with no affect?

[Warpy]

11. These things rarely happen out of the blue

Quite likely he's had some issues for quite a while, his parents hoping he'd outgrow them. Mental illness is still a source of shame.

[MADem]

15. They aren't saying, but they are trying him as an adult. nt

[ieoeja]

25. So

Did he just suddenly turn into some kind
of adult?

Apparently so.

I really wish they would stop pretending that murder makes a person an adult. What kind of message is that to send kids. "If you want to be treated like an adult, act like an adult," shouted the mother at her son just before he picked up the butcher knife and killed her thinking, "they tell me this means I am acting like an adult."

Some states allow convicts to vote. Does Massachusettes? If so, I suppose he has to be allowed to vote now that he is legally recognized as an adult.

Sorry for the dark humor. I can't help a little humor at the illogic of all of this.

[MADem]

33. What's an adult, though? In MA, you can vote at 18, but you can't buy alcohol.

In UK, you can drink beer or wine with a meal if you're 16 and someone else pays for it.

I think he needs more than a couple of years in juvenile hall for that heinous murder. Depending on what he perceived as his "motive," he may need to be locked up for a long, long time--perhaps in a psychiatric facility.

No one outside law enforcement really knows anything yet, but schizophrenia--and often the real intractable kind--usually hits young men (more than young women, statistically) in their teen-to-young-adult years. If a young man can make it to thirty without exhibiting symptoms of schizophrenia, he's usually safe from it. But that's pure speculation on my part--maybe he was an unusually mature contract killer, for all I know...I'm just guessing, here.


FWIW, incarcerated felons can't vote in MA. Their voting rights are returned to them, though, after they get outta jail.

[LiberalElite]

78. Under Massachusetts law -

a juvenile 14 years of age or older, if indicted by a grand jury for Murder 1 or 2, will be tried as an adult.

[MADem]

81. And there ya go. We don't have the death penalty up this way. nt

[theHandpuppet]

96. 14 is a little young for the onset of schizophrenia

Not saying it doesn't happen but it's rare.

[MADem]

104. Yes, it would be "early onset." His schoolmates observed a distinct personality change

in recent weeks; he became withdrawn and spaced out, they said, and he wasn't doing his schoolwork.

[MindPilot]

16. I hate "tried as an adult".

I don't care how horrible the crime. The kid is 14. He cannot vote, enter into a contract, drive, or hold public office; he is NOT an adult. He will not have a jury of his peers.

"tried as an adult" is not justice; it is retribution.

[MADem]

19. Whatever it is, it's the "know better" element being applied.

A child might not know how legal it is to engage in, say, wire fraud, but most 14 year olds know that murder with a sharp object in most violent fashion, and then hiding the body in the woods in an effort to obscure one's culpability, is a no-no. You don't have to be full-grown to know this.

A few years in "juvvy" isn't going to fix that kid--and that's all he'd get if tried as a child. He's a danger to society. The heinousness of the crime, the casual theft/use of the credit card, and then a trip to the movies...?

I'm not a fan of "Not guilty by reason of insanity" either.

I think "Guilty and insane" ("insane" being such a poor descriptor, really, but it's what they're using these days) is closer to the mark.

[MindPilot]

29. Several years in prison likely won't do much either.

So want should be the desired outcome?

Should we try to figure out what went wrong and try to help the kid, perhaps with an eye to being able to maybe prevent the next one?

Or should he rot in prison while we oh-so-humanely oppose the death penalty?

I think our justice system has become much more about revenge than rehabilitation.

[MADem]

35. I'm guessing he will never see "prison" but he will be locked in a secure psych facility.

And he'll probably be there for decades.

That's just my guess.

What do you want? For him to go free, here's your boxcutter, don't slice people up anymore, or throw their bodies in the woods, or steal their credit cards and go to the films and buy fast food?

How would you cure someone who follows a woman into the bathroom, puts on gloves, and kills her, up close and personal, with a boxcutter, and leaves the room covered--yes, COVERED--in her blood. Then he changes and goes to the flix!

How would you "fix" this person? How would you "help" him?

[MindPilot]

38. Sure, yeah, he should go free. I'm a big fan of murdering young women and admire the people who do.

/sarcasm

There is I think some middle ground between rot in prison and a slap on the wrist.

I want rehabilitation, treatment and study. Especially study--as a society, we have GOT to figure out why this kind of thing happens with such appalling regularity.

[MADem]

50. I think the middle ground, at least right now, is called "secure psychiatric facility."

That's the best hope of getting that trinity of care you advocate.

And that's probably where he'll end up.

[Lizzie Poppet]

23. I have no problem with this.

Barring grave mental illness (which may have been present and which would massively effect the legal and ethical determination, if demonstrated), the circumstances of this murder indicate an awareness on the part of the killer of it's wrongness (hiding the body being one of the more decisive indicators). The large majority of 14-year-olds have a very well developed sense of right and wrong...it's not as if this was some little kid with no real sense of the ramifications of what he was doing.

This is a crime with enormous ramifications (as are all homicides), not some "youthful indiscretion." Trying the suspect as a juvenile would mean that if convicted, he could be free in just a handful of years, at 18. I find the mere thought of such an outcome nauseating.

[Yo_Mama]

30. But under the law if he isn't tried as an adult

he'll be back out on the streets at 21.

I see your point, but there are some adolescents who cannot safely be treated and sent back out there. That's why these laws were passed.

[alphafemale]

56. Fine. He only gets four years for brutal murder.

Since you think he is a poor, pitiful child when he is 18 he gets to come live in your house.

[MindPilot]

98. Thank you for telling me what I think.

That's the best part of DU. When I don't understand my own point of view, someone will clear it up for me. See, I had no idea that there was no gray area between concern for the rights of the accused and condoning the crime. Without your condescending admonition, I never would have known that.

[WI_DEM]

12. She was only 24 years old--very sad.

[Initech]

18. Why am I reminded of Breaking Bad just now?

[Marrah_G]

27. This story is so damn sad

I imagine her last minutes of life were pretty damn horrifying.

[NuclearDem]

32. Wow...she was exactly my age.

I don't know why that jumped out at me or why I saw some of my friends in her...

[Here]

40. How horrible that we live in a country

where 14 yr olds are allowed access to box cutters

[cali]

43. well that was both stupid and callous. congrats on that

welcome to du?

not so much

[Here]

46. So...

You think 14 yr olds SHOULD have box cutters in schools?

[cali]

47. I said what I think.

and I hate coy shit.

[Here]

48. That's nice

[WinkyDink]

66. Don't play the "disingenuous" card. Homeys don't play that game here.

[NoGOPZone]

51. or to the Internet

[JoePhilly]

54. I hope you are just passing through town

and not planning to stay.

[ecstatic]

52. RIP. I wonder if he murdered before?

Chilling. I hope the police look into it.

[Rene]

53. my reaction: lock him up and thaway the key

I don't even want to hear his "why" means nothing

[FarCenter]

57. ‘Totally faded out’: Classmates, former coach describe alleged killer Philip Chism

Students in Danvers Wednesday said Chism, who moved to Danvers from Tennessee this summer, played soccer, focused on academics and liked to draw in a notebook he kept with him at all times.

“The last couple weeks he like totally faded out,” said Kara Behen, 14.

Behen said she was in Ritzer’s last algebra class with Chism Tuesday, from 1-1:55 p.m.

Read more: http://www.wickedlocal.com/danvers/news/x529843516/-Totally-faded-out-Classmates-former-coach-describe-alleged-killer-Philip-Chism

[knitter4democracy]

80. Something happened. Kids don't just do that for no reason.

I wonder if we'll ever really know what happened.

[elfin]

69. Former high school history teacher here

Luckily retired long before the profession became so dangerous.

Used to work in what many considered "tough" neighborhoods, with drugs, belligerence, hard core apathy and cynicism, but NEVER worried about weapons or being attacked with anything but words.

When I began, I had held back kids who were older than I. This was before gang culture grew.

I loved it and the interchanges with the most trouble causing (usually male) students. Year after year, more and more of them were assigned to my classes because word spread that I "was good" with them and could cajole them to do the work.

Now, I would never enter the profession.

This incident does not sound like drugs, gangs etc., but when I see her lovely photo, I wonder if he had a crush on her that neither she nor he could handle. I had kids ask me out, which I could deflect with humor and authority, but they did not live in the hyper-sexualized, violent environment that exists today. I never met with a young man alone after the school day, but instead would offer extra help during study hall or during free time in class.

She was so young. I grieve for her family, students and indeed for the profession that lost a much needed shining star.

[MADem]

83. A crush? She could not handle? I think your thesis is not borne out by facts.

He followed her into the bathroom, punched her in the face and slit her throat with a boxcutter. That's not "I love you" that's "Die (expletive deleted), die!!!"

She kept him after school because he was drawing and not doing his work.

She was, by all accounts, a very dedicated teacher--I'm sure she had student admirers, and I'll bet she knew how to handle them.

This sounds like mental illness. Maybe "the voices" told him to do it...?

http://www.necn.com/10/24/13/Police-sources-Teen-slit-Danvers-Mass-te/landing.html?blockID=855989&feedID=11106

[JanMichael]

91. The person you were responding to was musing about possible

motives. Yes, a "rejected" teen certainly could lash out-- over a crush he or she couldn't handle.

You only have the "facts" of how the attack was carried out, and interestingly my wife had the same thought about the boy as the poster you are responding to.

As far as "mental illness," I think it's safe to say that healthy people generally don't kill people with boxcutters-- so I would say that's a "gimme," wouldn't you?

[MADem]

92. I'm talking about the kind of mental illness where people hear voices, not

the more milder forms. And I'm also talking court-worthy "not guilty by reason of" mental illness, that a defense team might consider as an option.

The kid was kept after school because his work was slipping and a test was coming up. Also, his friends are coming on local TV saying he had been spacing out in the last few weeks. Not his usual self.

I think a young, go-getter teacher is probably up on the latest ways to deflect a teen crush. I also rather strongly doubt that she was involved with the child romantically, and that was a hint of a vibe I was getting from that post.

A perfectly healthy person would kill a person with a boxcutter if they were blackmailing them and threatened them with absolute ruin, or someone broke into their house and threatened their life, and that was the nearest weapon at hand. Since I doubt that this teacher threatened this kid's life or reputation, I tend to think the voices in his head may have told him that she was a threat of some sort.

[JanMichael]

99. Where in the world did you get

that I thought this child had a "mild" mental disorder?

You infer much more than the poster you were objecting to. You have come up with not only a "diagnosis," but also inferred that there was "romantic involvement" from what the poster wrote.

How in the world did you come up with any of that??!!

[Spirochete]

73. Wonder if he got the idea from Breaking Bad

There was a pretty gnarly scene involving a box cutter...

[Orrex]

84. Maybe it occurred to him because it was a very sharp blade

If he'd used a sledgehammer, I suppose we'd be wondering if he got the idea from The Avengers.

[snooper2]

79. I was going to read the thread---

but then a thought came...

That idiot nancy grace (who doesn't deserve caps) will be all over it. Do I really want the same topic going through my head as her?

[LittleBlue]

95. I'm glad he's being tried as an adult.

What a piece of shit. He should never see freedom again.

[B Calm]

97. teachers should get combat pay.