General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWrong Color Skin, wrong neighborhood, 13 yr old shot and killed for toy gun
I don't give a Fuck how the cops want to try and justify killing a 13 yr old boy in a field commonly used by dozens of kids playing with airsoft guns. If they can't avoid these grievous mistakes they don't need to be cops.
We just don't need wanna-be-Rambos patrolling our streets killing our children
A Northern California community is anguished over the fatal police shooting of a popular, 13-year-old boy who had been carrying a pellet gun that looked like an assault rifle.
snip
Some community members wondered whether the deputies acted appropriately when they decided to fire on such a young person.
"I'm sure you can tell he's a 13-year-old boy," Abrey Martin told KGO-TV. "He's not some maniac."
Andy, an eighth-grade student who played trumpet in his school band, was described as a bright and popular student, liked by many in his community, including Lawrence Cook Middle School assistant principal Linsey Gannon.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/calif-sheriffs-deputies-shoot-kill-13-year-20656068
PeteSelman
(1,508 posts)No. Unfortunately, you can't.
This is tragic but ultimately avoidable. That gun didn't have any of the fluorescent bumpers on it or anything to indicate it wasn't an assault rifle. A cop isn't going to wait for you to shoot at him first if you brandish a gun at him. Cops do a lot of fucked up things these days but I'm hard pressed to fault them here.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)With AR 15s don't get shot because cops use judgement for white folks
PeteSelman
(1,508 posts)The nimrods walking around open carrying aren't brandishing the weapons at police. They're just being douches. If they pointed the weapons at the cops they'd be dead right quick.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)PeteSelman
(1,508 posts)There appears to be a reason.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)You earned it
PeteSelman
(1,508 posts)I can't say I disapprove.
If what this person is saying is true then I will no longer hold my original position. I'm not a bagger, I'm able to shift my view based on evidence and circumstance.
Well enough?
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)And its the 2nd eye witness to corroborate those facts
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Witness came forward - Boy never had a chance to turn - 5 shots in the back
Fuck
lame54
(35,294 posts)Javaman
(62,531 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Whatever happened to the bright orange tips for replicas?
Javaman
(62,531 posts)maybe the kid took it off?
Link Speed
(650 posts)This is a real problem out here in Wine Country where there are 'bad' sides in every town. This kid was already in trouble and had been taken out of school and placed in an alternate (read "full of little punks" facility.
PeteSelman
(1,508 posts)zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)There really isn't much info there to go on. There are so many questions it would be hard to know where to start. About all we really "know" from the story is that a kid had a pellet gun and the cops shot him dead. Everything else is either second hand descriptions or derivations of some sort.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)pitbullgirl1965
(564 posts)LuvNewcastle
(16,847 posts)and stupid mistakes can cost you your life. I'm sure a lot of parents are having a conversation with their kids about what to do if the police order them to do something, especially when their guns are drawn.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Going to prison with the people you put there is ...
LuvNewcastle
(16,847 posts)If they're lying here, I hope we find out about it. The people who knew the kid said he was smart, so I don't know what to believe right now. But smart people also do stupid things.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)He was walking down the street and the police officers pulled their cars up BEHIND him with their sirens off. Both officers got out, guns drawn, and screamed at him twice in rapid succession to drop the "gun". When he started to turn around, they immediately opened fire.
Now tell me, if you're walking down the street with a toy gun in your hand that fires plastic pellets, and someone behind you starts yelling "drop the gun", are you just going to drop it....or are you going to turn around and see who is doing the shouting first?
The kid never had a chance. He had NO WAY of knowing they were police officers, or even that the shouting was directed at him.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)we live in... A state of being created by libertarians and gun-nutters, we're all just one turn of the body away from a very stupid mistake that could justifiably end our lives.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)When can justify and trivialize killing our children
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)13 year old points a real AK-47 at you, acting like he is about to shoot.
A. Let him shoot you?
B. Shoot him and keep on living.
Oops, it wasn't a real gun, just a completely realistic looking toy. But you don't get to find tht out until it is over.
As you are deciding, remember that there are 13 year olds who do commit murder.
http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/10/official_14_year_old_went_to_movies_after_killing_teacher
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/12/fifth-grade-murder-plot/2973605/ That one is an 11 year who who attempted murder. What would you do if he pointed a gun at you?
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Didn't have a chance
5 shots in the back
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)in jeopardy, waited to confirm the boy was a threat. Not go off all half-cocked and kill the kid.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)hatrack
(59,587 posts)By the way, your citations do not involve this incident, and are hence irrelevant.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)The point is that even kids can be dangerous.
The citations are examples of dangerous kids. They prove that even young ones can be dangerous.
hatrack
(59,587 posts)When did the victim "point" his gun at the sheriff's deputies?
And your citations remain irrelevant, btw.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)That's where I got that information.
You just don't like the citations because they prove that even kids can be dangerous.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)And the cop who just murdered a kid is attempting to justify his murder rather than just accepting spending a significant chunk of his life in jail? My world no longer makes sense to me.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)It probably will, but they get no BOD from me when it comes to minority deaths....
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)I find it hard to blame the cops for what they did.
DustyJoe
(849 posts)I'm going to hold off on cop cheerleading until I hear the audio that should exist from the cops equipment. It will be interesting and important to see the time gap from a screamed order to freeze and drop it and the shot. It seems that the other shot by cop incidents have shown a very small time frame between the two. I have in mind a kid with a toy hesitating to form the words
'it's an airsoft not real" as a 9mm is heading his way.
littlewolf
(3,813 posts)also who is to say the orange tip didn't get broken off
and buried somewhere. sorry I am going to wait
to pass judgement.
marble falls
(57,112 posts)Kaleva
(36,312 posts)One can get into some serious trouble in that state just for having a semi-auto AK-47 with a detachable high capacity magazine.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)This is a horrible tragedy, but as currently reported, the police acted correctly based on what they KNEW at the time of the shooting: a person with what looked like a real AK-47 type rifle disobeyed repeated police orders to drop the gun and instead began raising the gun toward them.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)You assume the cop is telling the truth
You assume he didn't look like a scared startled 13 year old child
You assume it wasn't common knowledge that children with airsoft guns don't go into that field to play all the time
Too much assuming here
Demonaut
(8,919 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)It could have went many other ways other then the Cops playing Rambo and ratcheting up their responce to a Leathal Shooting of a 13yr old
Poor judgement sneaking up behind and startleing a 13yr old
Link Speed
(650 posts)It's changed a bit over the last few years.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Link Speed
(650 posts)It is mostly low-income Hispanic. Not Oakland or East LA, but stressful, all the same.
This is a tragic event for all concerned, but that kid was a fool (and his parents are idiots, if they knew he was parading around the 'hood with that "gun" . We can only hope that lessons are learned from this.
If I had seen him on my property (I am minutes away from SR), I would have shot him on the spot.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)I've lived in "Brown Neighborhoods" before and this 1 in particular
You are lying
and you just told the whole DU community what you are really all about
bowens43
(16,064 posts)Response to Link Speed (Reply #102)
Guy Whitey Corngood This message was self-deleted by its author.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)ellie
(6,929 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)You are also making assumptions.
I will await further details.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)And draw less of a responce
Your point is ...
Throd
(7,208 posts)You really hate the police, so you already have come to a conclusion to confirm your bias.
All I know at this point are the preliminary details as reported in the Sacramento Bee this morning. Anything else on my part would be pure conjecture.
I will await further details as to whether this shooting was justified or not. Either way, it is definitely a tragedy.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Isn't that what this is really all about
Throd
(7,208 posts)Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)Like I said in my response AS REPORTED by the news, it was a justifiable shooting.
The burden is on you to provide proof of wrong doing on their part if you are going to accuse them of being wrong to shoot.
No cop in the world is going to wait for anybody, even a child, to shoot them first before firing back.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)They used an excuse
All them Brown Skinned Boys are Gang Bangers and need to be put down
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)Change the system from within, presuming you can meet the standards.
And when a 13 year old with a REAL gun puts two rifle rounds in your chest and you're staring up at the sky as you bleed out, maybe you realize things are quite as clear cut as you make it out to be.
Decaffeinated
(556 posts)has ever said "I'll let him pop off a few rounds at me to see if he really means it"
You are letting your racial bias affect your perception.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)If I had a PENNY for every time someone typed that shit during the Trayvon Martin case...
I'm not making a definitive statement this early on whether the cops were right or wrong, but that phrase just brings up a lot of ugly memories for me...
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)But you know, he's a 13 year old boy, not some maniac....like the adult who shot up Sparks Middle School....oops.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)We pay these people to use proper judgement
In a field fequented by children with Airsoft guns
Bad enough the Sherrifs Dept. Is trying to justify it calling it a pellet gun
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)And sadly, we see kids shoot those up as well. Sorry, but that reasoning doesn't work.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)The whole neighborhood knew it
But the again its a Hispanic Neighborhood
Sorry but your rationalation wreaks
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)regardless of where you live. Sorry, but YOUR rationale wreaks.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Is an unnecessary escalation of violence
tblue37
(65,409 posts)he was a kid.
Now envision the situation.
Kid hears someone shout at him. Maybe he understands what the person is saying, but maybe not, since a shouted command sometimes is not easy to understand at first--raising the voice volume can distort sounds, and as a severely hearing-impaired person who wears hearing aids, I can tell you that there's a limit to how loud the amplification can be before the distortion causes the words to become nearly or completely incomprehensible.
So the kid hears a shouted command. Maybe he immediately understands the words, maybe not. But unless they yelled,"Police!" first--AND unless he understood what they yelled if they did--he probably didn't know who was behind him, so he could have thought it was another kid, since kids play with airguns in that field all the time.
But whether he understood the words or not, whether or not they identified themselves as cops, whether or not he believed them if they did, he did exactly what ANY normal person would do if someone suddenly came up behind them and started shouting loudly: he STARTLED a bit and started to turn around.
As soon as he started to turn, stll holding the toy gun, the cops (who famously shoot without a second's delay, because they are always on a hair-trigger edge about maybe being killed on duty--not entirely without reason, but still, not a good thing if it makes them shoot too quickly without taking even a second to be clear about what the situation is) see the person turning toward them, gun still in hand, since he was startled by the sudden shouting behind him.
Since cops are always afraid that someone with a gun is about to shoot them, and always afraid that the next person they approach for ANY reason MIGHT have a gun and try to shoot them, they *immediately* reacted to the sight of the boy turning, gun still in hand, assuming that (1) that he deliberately REFUSED to drop the weapon" despite being ordered to, and (2) that the only reason he is turning toward them with the gun still in his hand is that he *intends* to start shooting (and since EVERYONE now has the right to automatic weapons, if he does start shooting, he can get off a gazillion shots in a second if they wait even that long to be sure of the situation). So the cops shoot first, IMMEDIATELY, the very second he turns toward them with the gun still in his hand.
I am sure he did NOT "aim" the gun at them, but that he merely turned toward them when they startled him by suddenly shouting at him from behind. But to the cops, that movement *with the gun still in his hand* SEEMED to be a deliberate act of "pointing" the gun at them to shoot them
I think that cop training is truly lousy, and that what training they do get overemphasizes what the military calls "force protection" while seriously neglecting the sort of situations in which overly aggressive cop behavior can unnecessarily create violence in a nonviolent situatuon or drastically escalate violence in a barely "violent" situatuon--as, for example, when someone is shouting but not actually attacking anyone yet.
Better training, plus a less hair-trigger shoot response on the part of cops in general, would probably have prevented this tragedy.
I think psychological screening of candidates for police jobs would help, too, if they would try to screen out authoritarian bully types. But unfortunately, that's the type of person that police departments actually seem to prefer.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)5 shots in the back
Check KTVU - they posted the witnesses statement
NickB79
(19,253 posts)Bullet holes usually don't lie.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Automatic weapons are very tightly regulated by the Feds. Since 1933 there have been only two illegal shootings with a legal automatic weapon, and one of those was a cop's automatic.
Kaleva
(36,312 posts)Apparently it's legal in California for the person who purchased an airsoft gun to remove the orange tip though. As far as i can find, Michigan is the only state that actually prohibits removing the orange tip.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Why?????
LuvNewcastle
(16,847 posts)One was a cap gun that looked a lot like a .38. I also had a BB gun, but it was noticeably smaller than a real rifle. Of course, that was 35-40 years ago, when there weren't all these mass shootings. But a lot of the guns kids play with today look very realistic, especially the pellet guns. Parents don't have a lot of choices if they want to get their kid a toy gun to play with.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)I grew up in Santa Rosa not far from where this happened
Do kids frequent the field with airsoft guns is like asking is the Pope Catholic
LuvNewcastle
(16,847 posts)so I wouldn't harm anybody's property. It's very common for kids to do that.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)there were a few high-profile incidents of kids being shot by cops in poor visibility/at distance, etc...After that my parents stopped buying them for me...
(Absolutely LOVED the smell of a popped cap back in the day)
Rex
(65,616 posts)for playing with toy guns. WE never had cops harass us or try and murder us when we played 'soldier' or cowboys and indians.
Must be a sign of our times.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Kaleva
(36,312 posts)during hunting and bird season.
LuvNewcastle
(16,847 posts)Jeneral2885
(1,354 posts)why must you people use profanities?
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Maybe check your own verbage at the door first before getting all self-righteous!?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)Somehow the orange fluorescent tip was painted over or removed. It looks like the front the barrel was cut off to make it look more real. Between that decision and not listening to the police the kid made tragic poor choices, but I can't say the police screwed up based on available information.
I think his airsoft gun started off like this....
[IMG][/IMG]
...but ended up like this when the kid was shot.
[IMG][/IMG]
IveWornAHundredPants
(237 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)5 shots in the back
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)If so this is unwarranted
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)We use to play cops and robbers/cowboys and indians as kids...I guess we would all be slaughtered in todays police state. Back in the 80s, we saw plenty of cops and game wardens that didn't even give us a second glance! With or without friends around...it was just good common sense to know kids played with toy guns!
Cops today behave like jackbooted thugs and end up murdering kids with toy guns. I makes me want to puke!
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)Why not wait for the autopsy report before going on a cop hate rant?
Also, eyewitness accounts are not very reliable in a high stress situation.
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)"But one neighbor said he saw something different.
Ethan Oliver says he lives across the street and came outside after he heard two gun shots.
He says by that time Lopez was already on the ground.
"Then the cops went at it again and unloaded like 6 to 7 shots, said Oliver.
When asked if he meant that the deputy shot Lopez while he was on the ground, Oliver said, "Yeah. Exactly what I saw."
http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/national/dozens-march-remember-boy-killed-deputies/nbXW9/
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)That's what I'm looking to see.
I also read the text you quoted and find it problematic, but clearly not testimony that he was shot in the back.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Really the piss poor excuse for law enforcement is the reason the child is dead. I would sack the entire group that murdered the poor boy. The cops used poor judgement and killed an unarmed child. End of story.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)When was the autopsy report released proving this? Or are you going on eyewitness statements which could very well be incorrect?
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)1 the kid who was walking with him - the 2nd neighbor across the street
Rex
(65,616 posts)being untouchable. Even after murdering a kid in cold blood.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)also, eyewitness reports have been known to be incorrect, and after seeing a picture of the airsoft rifle he was carrying, I would have thought it was real also and taken appropriate steps to protect myself also.
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)Again there may be more info information that turns the story on the police, and then again the police may be able to explain those details.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)All shots on the right side, cops approached from behind.
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)And it sounds like you're sayin gong he wasn't shot in the back as some are claiming.
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)I appreciate the information.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)This was murder.
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 25, 2013, 12:33 PM - Edit history (1)
It could be a tragic outcome of reasonable choices by the boy and the officer.
Rex
(65,616 posts)LEOs you have never met or never will meet! How sad for you. They murdered the kid in cold blood, I know you don't care at all. Thanks for playing CYA for a bunch of thugs with guns.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)you know, things like the autopsy report, forensic and physical evidence before I pronounce any guilt or innocence.
And for the record, you haven't met them or will probably never meet them.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Or anyone responding with a high 5 to the cops for murdering a child with a toy gun. Common sense seems to be lacking as a general quality in a lot of people around here. The cops failed to use common sense and murdered a child. Sorry if that bothers you so much.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)I'm not, as you put it, high 5ing anyone, I'm doing what most level headed people do, waiting for the official report to come out before I make up my mind.
If the evidence shows they committed murder, I'll condemn them, if it shows it was justifiable, then I'll say they did the right thing given the circumstances.
It's a tragedy that a 13 yo child lost his life, but the investigation of the circumstances have just begun.
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)The only reality that matters to them is one they create in their minds.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)I guess I'm just kind of weird in that I like to wait for the actual facts of the case to come out before passing judgement, things like the autopsy report, which will tell us if the kid was actually shot in the back 5-6 times as the OP is claiming, other things like forensic and physical evidence.
It's been my experience that eyewitness accounts are sometimes unreliable, and the evidence later disputes it.
I'll continue my wait an see vigil before passing judgement.
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I live in Santa Rosa and I don't believe the SPD's version of events. What special insight do you have?
Rex
(65,616 posts)They lacked enough common sense to keep the young boy alive and should all lose their jobs imo.
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 25, 2013, 09:41 AM - Edit history (1)
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)... I might think my life was in danger too. What the police said was plausible, but more may be revealed to contradict their story.
Now there could be more to the story, but at the time I posted that there wasn't much being offered except blind hatred for the popo.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)The boy was shot 7 times by one officer. Two cops pulled up, one shot him 7 times before he had a chance to turn around.
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)Do you have a link to a witness saying he was shot 7 times before he could turn around?
BeeBee
(1,074 posts)Where in the article does it say anything about this being racially motivated or because the kid was in the wrong neighborhood?
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)This happened in southwest SR--a poorer and "browner" area of town. This never has, and never will happen in Bennett Valley, Rincon Valley, or Fountaingrove. As you may have already guessed, these are the more wealthy areas of town.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)I grew up on Magowan Dr
BeeBee
(1,074 posts)Maybe I misinterpreted what the OP was trying to say. I read it as a brown person in the wrong (read white) neighborhood. That's what I didn't understand. I used to live not far from where this happened and it is a predominately Latino area. It sounded like the OP was saying that they targeted the brown kid because he was in the white neighborhood...
Also, after seeing pictures of the "toy" gun, I'm not certain that this wouldn't have happened anywhere.
Link Speed
(650 posts)It's like the Springs, west of Sonoma. I can drive 2 miles from my house on East Sonoma Street and enter a thoroughly different universe.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 25, 2013, 09:39 AM - Edit history (1)
Your words are reprehensible.
Original text below.
I didn't know you were in Sonoma.
I mentioned that southwest Santa Rosa was a predominantly Latino part of town. But that may not tell the whole story to those who live out of state. Southwest SR isn't Oakland or Richmond or South Central LA. Socioeconomically speaking, it's primarily poor and Latino. There's some gang activity that takes place there. There are a lot of illegal grows in that area too. But it's not a place where someone gets shot every week. It's not a place where the pizza delivery people and cops refuse to go. It's a poor working class neighborhood, but I'm guessing it's not even in the top 50 most dangerous neighborhoods in CA, wherever those may be. It's not a place where police need to fear for their safety as a matter of course.
thanks
Link Speed
(650 posts)Sonoma is the same, but on a smaller scale. There is not a street in the area that I would hesitate to drive down or walk during the day, but if a known 'banger walks down my street, he/she will be accosted by the cops.
This thing in SR is a bad deal all around and, hopefully, there will be lessons learned.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)If the kid waved a replica gun at an officer, it was a stupid mistake that cost him his life.
If the kid was shot in the back as he tried to flee, then it was murder or something similar.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Still, I'll wait for an investigation
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)before discharging his firearm. If the issue is worry for his own life, well, he should have to wait until a shot is taken at him to return fire. Killing civilian children just in case is not fucking acceptable to me. Being a cop is dangerous. Exercising restraint is hard. Tough fucking shit. A cop should not fire unless fired upon. Period. That should clear up any ambiguity.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Compare that kid's height to the 30" desk behind him
How tall is this kid 4'8" max
How could any cop say he did not realize the kids age.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)and payed with his life." I say the officer made a mistake and ended the kids life.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Put you don't assume children have the same rational as adults either
uncle ray
(3,156 posts)but no doubt, pretty close.
i agree with your unpopular opinion 100%.
JVS
(61,935 posts)or "manifest danger"
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)...is imminent danger.
Requiring that they be shot at is an insane standard that gives all criminals the chance to kill police in stand off situations.
Decaffeinated
(556 posts)... whose children will likely have their own weapons (at ages I deem appropriate) it is absolutely reasonable to see how this "toy"
could be viewed as a threat.
trumad
(41,692 posts)LOL---
I'm a hide away from taking a nap on DU--- so I'll only think of what I think of you.
Decaffeinated
(556 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:26 AM - Edit history (1)
Doesn't bother me and sounds like you need it...
trumad
(41,692 posts)Is that gun talk for lack of size?
dude--- gun guy---what's that fucking mean? Hi---I'm a gun guy! I'm tough---I'm mean--- I'm going to give my kids a gun---then they're gun kids.. they'll be tough---they'll be mean.
Someday they can use that gun. Maybe accidentally, maybe on purpose. Because we're a gun family.
Gun guy---- too fucking funny.
Decaffeinated
(556 posts)I can see it now.
What do when YOU have to have a civil conversation...
Always go for the penis reference. It makes people take you seriously and shows that you are an intellectual force to be reckoned with.
trumad
(41,692 posts)We don't take you seriously because you walk around saying your a gun guy----which is about as silly as you can get.
I'm a gun guy---like wow!
Decaffeinated
(556 posts)... that you would find it difficult to explain why it's funny without it just boiling down to the fact that you don't like people who have a different viewpoint than you on this issue.
IOW, I don't think that word means what you think it means...
morningfog
(18,115 posts)mostly the "pro-gun" types. Actually, not interesting at all, to be expected.
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)Do they mean that law enforcement should have no sympathy when they kill?
I AM SO SICK OF THESE THUGS.
AndyA
(16,993 posts)There's the first issue.
I used to have a transparent orange water pistol. I didn't care that it didn't look like a real gun. Why do kids need toys that look like real guns?
This is so sad.