HealthCare.gov pricing feature can be off the mark

[FarCenter]

(CBS News) CBS News has uncovered a serious pricing problem with HealthCare.gov. It stems from the Obama administration's efforts to improve its health care website. A new online feature can dramatically underestimate the cost of insurance.

The administration announced it would provide a new "shop and browse" feature Sunday, but it's not giving consumers the real picture. In some cases, people could end up paying double of what they see on the website, CBS News' Jan Crawford reported Wednesday on "CBS This Morning."

As President Obama promises to fix HealthCare.gov, his administration is touting what it calls "improvements" in design, specifically a feature that allows you to "See Plans Now." White House press secretary Jay Carney has said, "Americans across the country can type in their zip code and shop and browse."

But CBS News has learned the new "shop and browse" feature often comes with the wrong price tags.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57608843/healthcare.gov-pricing-feature-can-be-off-the-mark/

[NYC_SKP]

1. I don't give a flying fuck. It's here, it's on, it's fucking going to work.

fuck.

[dkf]

11. Failure is not an option as we won't be able to delay the individual mandate for political reasons

Everybody needs to suck it up and no excuses for not delivering a finished and usable product within 6 weeks.

[Puzzledtraveller]

20. Let me add a different scenario, in addition to the technical problems

one that many here seem unable to grasp because we have been so certain this is going to work and that everyones costs will go down and everyone will have access to healthcare we have prevented ourselves from being prepared for reality. If this things goes south, and we have the opposite effect, increased health care costs, no change in access or worse, less access, when will this begin to hit people? In 2014! We can take a major beating in midterms and if it's bad enough, 2016.

[dkf]

27. Yes I think it's a mess but D's will have to live with it, like vets in the VA system.

We picked our poison when we declined to startup with government and delay the mandate for a year. I said then a delay was the obviously smart thing to do but Obama had his line in the sand and so did Harry Reid.

They've made our bed. Now we lie in it and rely on their ability to execute properly which is a fair judgment. That's what Obama is supposed to do after all, be our CEO and run the country properly.

[Yo_Mama]

58. Yes. We can't let this fail, and criticisms of those who are saying we need to get urgent about this

are ignoring the reality. We don't have until March. We have to get it working in time this year to get all these apps in, the people enrolled, and the subsidies transmitted to the insurance companies.

It is not sufficient to extend the deadline. This is about insurance. People need insurance. Many of the people relying on the exchanges already had insurance and had their insurance policies cancelled. We cannot leave these people uninsured.

There are no excuses, and we must do whatever is necessary to get this to work. It doesn't have to be beautiful. It doesn't have to be glitch-free. It JUST HAS TO BASICALLY WORK.

There are at least ten million policies that have to get processed in the system by 12/15, and then the payments for those policies have to get transmitted Jan 1st to the insurance companies. A minimum of six million, probably more like 8 million the federal and co-op state exchanges. There are only six states that set up purchasing exchanges - all the rest are relying on the federal infrastructure to actually complete the process.

That's DROP-DEAD. If the insurance companies don't get the subsidies the people won't have policies. They will be uninsured.

[Gravitycollapse]

2. Any price quote should be honored. Even if that means the federal government covering the difference

[FarCenter]

3. It's not a quote; it's an estimate.

[datasuspect]

19. a quote is an estimate

oy gevalt!

[VanillaRhapsody]

4. That's ridiculous....they have to leave the "just window shopping area"

They have to go to another site to actual choose plans and pay for coverage...its not automatically chosen for them. They are not being held to the deal...


This is a government not a corporation....

[kiva]

6. No, it's just run by them.

[VanillaRhapsody]

7. we are talking about the website...

It is what it is.....too late to grief on what it isn't...

[kiva]

8. I know, I know...

we can't protest before something happens because we're just trolls and, golly gee, it's all going to be peachy; we can't say anything while the deal is in process because our opinions on this website could cause things to go very wrong; and there's no point in talking about something once it's a fait accompli, and gosh, why didn't we say anything before it all happened.

[VanillaRhapsody]

9. So you admit you disagree with the vast majority here....yet you continue to hang around and force

them to recognize your presence? Because otherwise...WTF?

I think the same could be said of a Confederate that tried to visit this site....

because even if you are Ted Cruz....why not hang around and grief before during AND after....

[kiva]

10. I've accepted the fact that a small but vocal minority here

would really prefer that we all march in lockstep, waving our pompoms and cheering, but that's not going to happen. I've been here long enough to understand that, and perhaps someday you too will realize that Democrats don't do that.

And because I care, I will point out that it's pretty much impossible for 'Confederates' to visit this site since the last one died decades ago. Oh, and it's 'grieve' not 'grief' - next time you want to insult someone you might want to consult a history book and a dictionary.

[progree]

16. Unfortunately they aren't a small minority. Vocal yes, but unfortunately not small n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

29. Not sure I understand what you mean...

[progree]

55. Not sure what you mean either. That makes two of us nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

59. I make myself perfectly clear...

nothing ambiguous about my beliefs...

I don't go around griefing...

[progree]

68. "I don't go around griefing..." Some of us choose not to be ostriches. Some of us want to know

about these problems. So we're not blind-sided at the office when someone mentions what they heard on the news, and people like you think unpleasant news should not be posted.

[VanillaRhapsody]

70. Word salad!

is that you Sarah?

[progree]

74. Is choosing not to be an ostrich "word salad" to you, Sarah?

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. Ostrich? Hardly.....I am well informed....thank you...this is Democratic Underground...

We are not here because we are "uninformed".....and most are not here to whine about how the "ACA is a complete failure" simply because the online system needs debugging (and is being debugged).

[progree]

80. Did I say "ACA is a complete failure", Sarah?

>> We are not here because we are "uninformed".. <<

I'm not saying all DU-ers. But if you think it's silly to know that healthcare.gov is giving estimates that are 1/3 to 1/2 off, then yes, you would be what I consider the ostrich category

[VanillaRhapsody]

85. "Off" from What?

What is this "off" you are discussing...

This is window shopping...DUH!

[progree]

89. Giving a 64 year old the rate of a 50 year old is not "off" to you????????????? half the rate is

not "off"?

[VanillaRhapsody]

90. Its NOT a contract!!!!!

How do you know that it is HALF...

Do you have a link?

[progree]

94. Would you say the same thing if it was a Republican admin "misunderestimating" its costs

and it created buzz, deliberately or not, about how low cost some Republican initiative is?

No, I don't have a link. Neither do you.

[VanillaRhapsody]

95. link it or its not true...

I have this...

IT Contractor: HealthCare.gov Was The First Of Its Kind

At the House Energy and Commerce Committee's oversight hearing Thursday on HealthCare.gov's troubled launch, an executive for one of the project's top software companies stressed to members that the insurance marketplace was a first-of-its-kind technological endeavor.

"The federal exchange ... is not a standard consumer website," Cheryl Campbell, senior vice president at CGI Federal, a lead contractor for the site, told the committee. "Rather, it is a sophisticated technology platform that for the first time in history combines the processes of selecting and enrolling in insurance and determining eligibility for government subsidies all in one place and in real-time."

"Some consumers were able to enroll on October 1, but we acknowledge that issues arising in the federal exchange make the enrollment process difficult for too many Americans," she continued. "Consequently, CGI Federal's focus shifted to solving consumer access and navigation problems on the exchange."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/it-contractor-healthcare-gov-was-the-first-of-its-kind

[progree]

112. The (um problematic) link is in the OP.

Here it is again: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57608843/healthcare.gov-pricing-feature-can-be-off-the-mark/

In some cases, people could end up paying double of what they see on the website, CBS News' Jan Crawford reported Wednesday on "CBS This Morning."

One half is the reciprocal of double. That when the actual cost is double what the website says, that means the website cost is half the actual cost. That's where I get 1/2 off.

That said, the website estimates in the two examples they cited in their article were not half as much as the actual rate, but rather 64% and 62% respectively as much. So ... that's a little less than 2/3 as much, meaning a little more than 1/3 off, but quite far from 1/2 off. Things in ((double parenthesis)) in the below excerpts are my additions.

CBS News ran the numbers for a 48-year-old in Charlotte, N.C., ineligible for subsidies. According to HealthCare.gov, she would pay $231 a month, but the actual plan on Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina's website costs $360, more than 50 percent higher. The difference: Blue Cross and Blue Shield requests your birthday before providing more accurate estimates. ((231/360 = 64%, about 2/3 as much or about 1/3 off))

The numbers for older Americans are even more striking. A 62-year-old in Charlotte looking for the same basic plan would get a price estimate on the government website of $394. The actual price is $634. ((394/634 = 62% again about 2/3, or about 1/3 off))

So I'll use "2/3 as much" and "1/3 off" from now on. Is it no longer a problem to you that healthcare.gov is basing a 62 or 64 year old's "estimate" based on a 50 year old's rate, or a 48 or 49 year old's "estimate" based on a 27 year old's rate?

And would you feel the same way if the Bush administration had done something like that? Or a contractor working for a Koch subsidiary that was giving you an estimate for a house repair? No problem since its only 1/3 off?

There is no excuse at all, none, for giving estimates for two broad age ranges using rates at the lower end of each age range. They could easily ask for an age or birthday.

[VanillaRhapsody]

114. So how did Romneycare in Massachusetts go?

You are pulling figures out of your ass! You have NO proof...

[progree]

128. Its in the link I just gave you, the same link that's in the OP

"So how did Romneycare in Massachusetts go?"

I don't know, I don't live there. Do tell us.

[Zorra]

92. Seems to me the recent swarm of corporate sockbots is here to stop the general movement to the left

in this country right now.

Every day zombies are signing up at political websites. Far too many get through the door and begin to post their insidious corporatist swill.

There's really all that many real people who follow their lead. It is the job of the sockbot to propagandize, and they can't do that unless they are front, center, and vocal.

[progree]

98. I just think people should know about this problem so they aren't blindsided at the office

when someone says, "I heard on the news ..." . And that people don't think their insurance is going to be 1/2 or 2/3 as much as it is really going to turn out to be.

If that is corporate swill to you, I'm sorry.

[Zorra]

115. I'm so sorry for not being clear. I agree with you 100%.

People and sockbots constantly defending the corporate PTB in the face of facts and truth was what I was referring to.

We're on the same team.

[Puzzledtraveller]

21. Bravo kiva!

[VanillaRhapsody]

30. bravo? Cheering the Griefers?

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. Look up there on the top left....see what that says? Democratic Underground...

That means...its for the purposes of Democrats...get it?

No Confederates are most certainly not dead...they are alive and well in the Tea Party.

and yes it is grief...as in "griefers"...I suggest Urban Dictionary.

[enlightenment]

34. Urban Dictionary?

You are increasingly laughable.

[VanillaRhapsody]

37. Yes...Urban Dictionary...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/

[enlightenment]

42. Thanks.

I'm fully aware of what it is - I use it to decipher the drivel of my more vocabulary-challenged students.

[VanillaRhapsody]

44. Just because you do not like colorful words...

You do understand that often the new definitions of word are created by "usage" in a new way? You do understand the concept of a living language right?

[enlightenment]

65. I understand completely.

You are amusing, I'll give you that.

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. Much more than amusing...

[villager]

61. "underground" means resiatance to the prevailing paradigm, get it?

Not just spewing vanilla talking points and passing them off as "insight"

[VanillaRhapsody]

117. DEMOCRATIC...this site supports DEMOCRATS!

It was established when Republicans controlled the White House...

Duh!

Are Confederates supposed to hang around Democratic Underground?

Nor is it Anarchist Underground....

[villager]

125. UNDERGROUND... this site supports critical UNDERGROUND discourse

The idea of "underground" for those ahistorical regurgitators of PR-crafted talking points, is to resist being coopted by a mainstream, or simply "going along to get along."

To sharpen the edges of that against which you are resisting, even rhetorically.

Or in this case, to keep the Democratic party honest, and true to itself

Duh!

btw, true anarchists wouldn't need "underground" appended to the title of their website...

[ScreamingMeemie]

109. Ummm...you looked up the wrong word...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=griefer

Double fail sauce with a side of asparagus and unseemly jesters.

Welcome to DU. Amazing how you "jumped right into the fray!"

[ScreamingMeemie]

111. Any time! Hey, he responded to you with an "as in griefers..."

before asking you to look it up on Urban Dictionary.

Don't make me go all triple fail sauce with a garnishment of "Get a Brain Morans!"

Nice edit of your post after you realized your major fail filet.

[villager]

126. EmoProg Griefers, perhaps!?

[uppityperson]

113. Flower pressing.

[maddezmom]

118. More like pushing up daisies

[uppityperson]

119. I'm looking for a NEW hobby. She seems to have that one down.

You made me laugh, have to tell you.

[maddezmom]

123. She sure does

Lots of great stuff to do here
http://www.chipublib.org/events/
I think the Halloween tote might be fun!

[maddezmom]

129. Corarose is that you again?

How did the cooking school go?

[Yo_Mama]

25. I think that the vast majority on DU want ACA to work

Therefore they want the exchanges to work.

Even if they originally supported some other solution, there is now no other option and this MUST WORK. Because if it doesn't, then at least 10 million people who had insurance will have had their insurance policies cancelled and won't be able to afford the new ones, and they may find themselves without insurance early next year. That is unthinkable. That we must avoid.

[VanillaRhapsody]

39. Bravo Yo!

[snooper2]

41. you are losing your touch by the way...

I thought you passed all the training classes?

[progree]

5. "states the actual prices could be lower, but it makes no mention that they could be higher"

From the article, an innuendo that the govt is deliberately misleading:

Industry executives CBS News spoke with could not believe the government is providing these estimates, which they said were useless and could easily mislead consumers. They also said that the website repeatedly states the actual prices could be lower, but it makes no mention that they could be higher.

[dkf]

12. The Government often gives wrong info. It falls into the "tough shit" category.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

13. I thought the quote it gives was merely an estimate. The Corporate Media is reaching!

[Travis_0004]

14. I don't think they are reaching at all

It shouldn't be that tough to ask for your actual age (and actual income), and give you an accurate quote. What is the point it giving somebody an estimate when the numbers are just guessed. Hopefully with some bad press, they will fix this, and give accurate quotes.

[VanillaRhapsody]

31. Is that all your current Insurance company needs for an exact quote?

[progree]

15. Precisely exacty where is the "reaching"?

When they give a price quote for everyone over 50 based on a 50 year old's rate, and when they give a quote for everyone under 50 based on the rate for a 27 year old, the media has a right, and the responsibility to tell us. I'm glad CBS did. So we don't have DUers getting quotes this way and then telling the world how low they are in an endless stream of OPs.

When the website repeatedly states the actual prices could be lower, but it makes no mention that they could be higher, then, no, the media is not, I repeat not, "reaching."

Would you have said the same thing if this were the Bush administration coming up with similar low-ball "estimates" for say their Medicare Part D program?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

17. All the Obama haters out in full force pretending to be fair minded.

You can tell who they are because they typically bring Bush out of their asses to prove a point. IGNORE!

[progree]

18. I'm an Obama admirer and worked very hard to get him elected. So stop lying about me.

Do you really want the media to lie to us or keep us in the dark? What about if this was the Bush administration rolling out one of their programs?

Oh, we can't talk about the Bush administration anymore? E.g. can't say Bush nearly doubled the national debt, sent the stock market down 37%, or raised the unemployment rate 3.5 percentage points, all during his 8 year presidency? I can't say that?

And again, now that you're done with the troll-calling, where is the "reaching" you talked about in #13? Precisely exactly where?

[VanillaRhapsody]

40. So you are saying people are too stupid to understand "average prices"?

I happen to think they are not!

[progree]

48. Where do you get this "average prices" thing?

There is no excuse for not asking for an age or date of birth and giving an age-appropriate estimate rather than giving a 64 year old a 50 year old's rate or a 49 year old a 27 year old's rate. No excuse. Zippo, none. How can you waste everyone's time defending something like this?

[VanillaRhapsody]

52. thats where an average price comes in....you do realize this involves HUNDREDS of plans...

literally hundreds of options for just an individual...


This is NOT one plan.....its MULTIPLE plans....

[FarCenter]

56. In most counties only a few insurance companies offer a few plans each

In some places there are only one or two insurance companies offering.

[VanillaRhapsody]

75. "most"? And you know this how?

MOST states do not have their own exchange...and the Federal one is being used in its stead.

[FarCenter]

87. Health Care Law Fails to Lower Prices for Rural Areas

Of the roughly 2,500 counties served by the federal exchanges, more than half, or 58 percent, have plans offered by just one or two insurance carriers, according to an analysis by The Times of county-level data provided by the Department of Health and Human Services. In about 530 counties, only a single insurer is participating.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/24/business/health-law-fails-to-keep-prices-low-in-rural-areas.html

[progree]

71. "Hundreds of plans", No, sorry, I don't think so

And that is NO EXCUSE for basing a 64 year old's rate on a 50 year olds, or a 49 year olds on a 27 year olds. IS IT?

[VanillaRhapsody]

78. these are averages....Do you not understand AVERAGES....and these are quotes...

not binding contracts....They go actually register to go look again to find a plan that fits...then decide.

[Keefer]

103. If these are "averages,"

Does the web site state that to the consumer anywhere?

[VanillaRhapsody]

120. Everyone KNOWS it is! What else could it be....

First you guys opposed it in general...NOW you think you have the right to require it work to YOUR specifications?

[Keefer]

134. "First you guys opposed it in general."

Why do you think I "opposed it in general?"" If I go to the Best Buy web site and shop for a laptop, are the prices displayed "estimates?" It clearly states the price for the laptop and also states the price for shipping and handling. I EXPECT those things from any private-sector company. Why shouldn't I expect the same information from my government?

[VanillaRhapsody]

136. Your "figures" do NOT include the tax credit...that is WHY it COULD be lower...

if you qualify for tax credits...if you are single and make less than $45,000....YOU qualify for them!

[Keefer]

139. What if...

you don't qualify for a subsidy? Shouldn't the system tell you that?

[VanillaRhapsody]

141. Yes it willl....it just told me that!

[Keefer]

143. ???

I just checked. All it tells me is this:

IMPORTANT NOTE: The prices here don't reflect the lower costs you may qualify for based on household size and income.
Most people who apply will pay lower monthly premiums than those shown here. Households with yearly incomes up to about $46,000 for individuals or $94,000 for a family of 4 will qualify for lower costs. You'll get final quotes for specific plans based on your income and household after you complete a Marketplace application.

To find out if you may qualify for lower costs, use this simple calculator.

It does not tell me if I qualify or not. You have to go to another site to find out if you qualify. Best But, and every other private-sector corporation, does all their calculations on their own web site and it does it in seconds. Don't get me wrong. The ACA will eventually work, but the longer these problems continue, the more likely it is that people give up and just quit looking for insurance.

[VanillaRhapsody]

144. It does so..."if you have an income of less than $46,000"

I don't qualify and it told me so...

[Travis_0004]

130. they are not averages

An average would imply they are taking all ppssible rates and averaging them. Instead they are cherrypicking the best possible rates, by using very young ages.

For the 50 and over crowd why would the use 50 as the age. Some people in this category are older but nobody ib this category is younger. Its deceptive and Im glad somebody pointed it out.

[VanillaRhapsody]

131. Have you been there and looked at them yourself? I have...

its not deceptive at all...If you qualify....you will also get TAX CREDITS! It says so right there!

Here is why they are saying it might be lower....the tax credit:

https://www.healthcare.gov/will-i-qualify-to-save-on-monthly-premiums/

NEXT!

[Travis_0004]

137. I have been there.

In fact I was quite impressed with the rate. Much cheaper than what Im paying now. The only problem is that rate only applies to a 27 year old, so the quote is useless.

[VanillaRhapsody]

138. Baloney! that quote is WITHOUT the tax credit...

[Travis_0004]

142. so the quote is even more useless

How diffucult would it be to ask for your age and income and give a quote?

[grantcart]

106. We qualified for 110 plans, and the range was from 300 to $ 1500 a month.

[progree]

122. In Rochester, MN there are a whole lot of plans, but all from one and only one insurance co.

Sure, one or two insurance companies can create a nearly infinite number of plans, by jiggering various aspects of their offerings, deductibles, and copays (while still meeting ACA guidelines). But its still a monopoly or an oligopoly.

[grantcart]

132. By that standard single payer health care is a monopoly.

The key is not how many insurance companies you get but how many doctors are in the plan you qualify for.

Your inference that the number of providers gives a monopolistic power in the market place is completely undermined by the fact that the gross margins (Medical Loss Ratio) is set by legislation and not by supply and demand, so the market place has no impact on the profit margin of the insurance company.

Moreover MN has the most aggressive implementation of the ACA in the nation, providing even more benefit than other states:

No state is set to embrace the Affordable Care Act as thoroughly as Minnesota, the only one that will implement the “big three” components of health insurance expansion.

That means Minnesota will expand the Medicaid program, develop an online insurance marketplace and offer a basic health program.

It’s the third component that really sets the state apart. Only Minnesota has committed to offering a basic health program, a safety net for people who have too much income to qualify for Medicaid, but not enough to afford private insurance. By enacting that third element of the act, Minnesota will take implementation of the federal health care overhaul further than any other state.

Because of stricter state control in MN you may find fewer companies, but that doesn't equate to lower quality plans.

There does seem to be something odd about Rochester offering so few plans while just up the highway in Minneapolis you can qualify for 66 plans.

[VanillaRhapsody]

133. But you leave out the tax CREDITS....

[Demo_Chris]

22. I am opposed to the ACA, but this complaint is a bit silly...

It's an estimate, not a contract.

[progree]

23. If this was some Republican program, and they were grossly underestimating their cost "estimates"

Last edited Thu Oct 24, 2013, 10:24 AM - Edit history (1)

and in the process creating buzz (intentionally or not) about how low the cost of their program was, would you say it was a "bit silly"? Would you say the media shouldn't report on it?

If you had to have work done on your house or car, and some contractor or mechanic gave you a low-ball estimate (equivalent to giving a 49 year old a health insurance estimate based on a 27 year old's rate, or a 64 year old's based on a 50 year old's rate), deliberately or not, would that not be problematical? Even if no contract was signed?

Some of us want to know these things so we're not blind-sided at the office when some rightie or swing voter type asks us about something they heard on the news and we go uh, duh, uh, duh.... And so we're not fooling ourselves in general. Not all progressives want to be shielded from unpleasant news. In fact, I don't know any progressive that does.

[Demo_Chris]

26. Yes. My values are not party dependent...

Which is why I remain anti war, anti NSA, anti mandate, and all the rest, despite our party's embrace of these programs.

This estimate thing is just that -- an estimate. That it is a poorly done estimate should come as no surprise; everything about this has been poorly done from the beginning. The only portion Washington cared about was making sure the Insurance Companies got their guaranteed profits in the form of mandates and subsidies. They left the other details, like a system that functioned and actually providing healthcare to Americans, for someone else to worry about.

[VanillaRhapsody]

32. Of course not....But did you happen to notice the name of this joint?

[progree]

36. Fine, but I still don't get how it is a "bit silly" for the media to report on it

>> This estimate thing is just that -- an estimate. <<

If you had to have work done on your house or car, and some contractor or mechanic gave you a low-ball estimate (equivalent to giving a 49 year old a health insurance estimate based on a 27 year old's rate, or a 64 year old's based on a 50 year old's rate), deliberately or not, would that not be problematical? Even if no contract was signed?

What if the contractor worked for a Koch Brothers subsidiary?

[Demo_Chris]

101. Because it is clearly a quick and temporary insert while they get things going...

I am not saying 'don't report on it.' This feature SHOULD have been implemented properly from the outset -- I can build and price a Chevy Truck online with all the options, but after tens or hundreds of millions of dollars and years to design the thing, I still cannot get accurate information about insurance rates? It's ridiculous. And it's made worse when they are telling me it's the fucking law that I have to sign up. Again, it's ludicrous, but it shows you clearly where their priorities were all along. Get that mandare. Delay everything else but get that fucking mandate -- the insurance execs need their bonuses!

We should be thanking baby Jesus that the GOP social conservatives are batshit crazy, because if they were sane they could turn this incompetence and fraud into a blowout.

My point with this story is that they are pointing out the wrong thing. Rather than ask why a hastily implemented feature is not yet functioning properly, they should be asking why it wasn't a core feature in the first place.

[VanillaRhapsody]

33. That is NOT what is happening and you know it...

Contractors do not give you an exact estimate when you are just "browsing their website".....

Epic fail of a comparison.

[progree]

45. If the contractor gave you a 1/3 to 1/2 off estimate to get their foot in the door?

(equivalent to giving a 49 year old a health insurance estimate based on a 27 year old's rate, or a 64 year old's based on a 50 year old's rate), deliberately or not, would that not be problematical? Even if no contract was signed?

What if a Bush administration site had given an "estimate" of the cost of one of their programs like that, on their website, calling it an "estimate" and it created buzz about how low and affordable their program was, would that be an "epic fail of a comparison"? Would you say, oh well, its just an estimate? (Like the Iraq war would pay for itself, LOL)

Nice try. But some of us choose to be aware of what's going on. Others of us choose to be ostriches and spend our time picking apart analogies rather than coming to grips with problems. To each their own.

[BKH70041]

24. (drip, drip, drip,...)

Honey, why is our water bill so high?

[Hoyt]

35. I doubt low income people or those with pre-existing conditions are paying more under ACA.

Very few who qualify for a substantial subsidy will pay more. In fact, many can now purchase insurance at low rates.

Folks with pre-existing conditions who were forced to buy a policy that excluded (or rated for) the pre-existing condition, likely aren't going to pay more.

And those who are on their employer's insurance have a new "safety net" now if they leave their job -- they can get insurance, notwithstanding any pre-existing condition.

[FarCenter]

38. Indeed they are not -- but the majority will pay more.

[VanillaRhapsody]

43. Baloney!

[FarCenter]

46. Taxpayers will be picking up the subidies; rates will increase due to high-cost patients in the pool

[VanillaRhapsody]

47. Again...Baloney!

Rates will decrease because of INCREASE in "non-patients" in the pool....

[progree]

50. Assuming the "non-patients", i.e. the healthy young, sign up in sufficient numbers. We shall see. nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

53. they will! Look how many WANT to use the site!

Yeah some will have a sad when it does....

[progree]

62. Do you have any data that these are the young and healthy ones? I suspect, aside from the just

curious and people who already have insurance but are curious about what the rates are, so as to use this info in political arguments, that many of those others are the less-than-healthy.

[VanillaRhapsody]

69. You cannot be serious.....in fact I am sure of that!

Nobody wanted Social Security at all!

Nobody wants to be sure that if they are in an awful accident....they won't be bankrupted! Young people never have health catastrophes at all!

Nope....nobody young and employed...EVER needs health insurance!

As someone who now will not see a subsidy....but who lived most of her adult life without affordable health insurance...I say baloney!

[progree]

77. Data please, so we can all be as sure as you.

Didn't say "nobody" in anything I wrote. DERP!

[VanillaRhapsody]

79. More word salad from you?

[VanillaRhapsody]

81. DU being trolled by Griefers and Confederates!

[progree]

86. No. Some people think it is a problem when healthcare.gov is estimating a 49 yo based on a 27 yo

Or a 64 year old based on a 50 year old. That's not "griefer" or "Confederate". Most of us in the non-Ostrich contingent of DU want to know about those things.

[VanillaRhapsody]

88. Okay Ostrich...you would rather have the current Heathcare system...duly noted.

IT Contractor: HealthCare.gov Was The First Of Its Kind

At the House Energy and Commerce Committee's oversight hearing Thursday on HealthCare.gov's troubled launch, an executive for one of the project's top software companies stressed to members that the insurance marketplace was a first-of-its-kind technological endeavor.

"The federal exchange ... is not a standard consumer website," Cheryl Campbell, senior vice president at CGI Federal, a lead contractor for the site, told the committee. "Rather, it is a sophisticated technology platform that for the first time in history combines the processes of selecting and enrolling in insurance and determining eligibility for government subsidies all in one place and in real-time."

"Some consumers were able to enroll on October 1, but we acknowledge that issues arising in the federal exchange make the enrollment process difficult for too many Americans," she continued. "Consequently, CGI Federal's focus shifted to solving consumer access and navigation problems on the exchange."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/it-contractor-healthcare-gov-was-the-first-of-its-kind

[progree]

97. "Okay Ostrich.you would rather have the current Heathcare system...duly noted." OK Liar

Did I say anywhere, that I favor the old system over ACA? I am pre-existing condition uninsured too and up there in years, so it is vitally important that ACA work for me. I can't ignore or undertreat my health problems much longer.

I have not misrepresented or lied about anything you said.

I've worked in I.T. and written a lot of software. I agree it is a tough tough project.

[VanillaRhapsody]

121. You apparently do!

where is your proof of ANYTHING you said...

By the way...I have written alot of code myself!

[progree]

124. Show me anywhere I said or indicated the old system is better, or that I don't want the ACA to work.

And where is the proof of anything you said? other than a link to a story about how difficult a project it is, something we both agree on.

The link is in the OP about estimates being 1/3 to 1/2 off.

[progree]

82. It was a simple question, I'm sorry if simple questions are "word salad" to you, Sarah n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

84. What was the question Michelle?

[FarCenter]

51. The "non-patients" are the former uninsured getting the high subsidies from the taxpayers.

[VanillaRhapsody]

57. Not true....But I suppose it is much cheaper for the uninsured to just go to the emergency room

and then run up a huge bill (because they wait till they are on deaths door often times)and not pay it

That's cheaper for taxpayers right? We don't subsidize that at all right? Healthcare delivery that way is sooooo cheap for the "tax payers".


I suppose you would rather they just die...

[Hoyt]

54. I'm willing to pay a bit more to expand coverage to 30 million. But from what I've seen so far,

it does not appear I would pay more if I bought an exchange policy.

I also think the benefits, out-of-pocket protections, no pre-existing exclusion, "free" preventive stuff, etc., are worth a little more. Apparently, you do not.

[Hoyt]

49. You can identify the plans offered, and then with a little work, go to the insurer's site and get

premiums based upon your age, family size, etc. Or, you can go to an agent and let them do the work for you. They get paid.

If you want insurance, it is certainly no more difficult than before. In fact, I think it is easier because the basic plan elements are standardized to some extent. Easier to compare and be sure of what you are getting.

[ProSense]

60. No, CBS News, Obama Isn’t Hiding The True Cost Of Obamacare

No, CBS News, Obama Isn’t Hiding The True Cost Of Obamacare
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/23/2823581/cbs-news-misleading-obamacare/

The prices given don't reflect subsidies.

The media suck!

[Raine1967]

63. Who is ValuePenguin?

...and how do they have a *tool* "that provides quotes for plans on the federal exchange."

I'm not seeing much of anything on the website that CBS uses as its source. The source is a blog post that it's quoting from.

[FarCenter]

64. A consumer finance web site.

http://www.valuepenguin.com/about

[Raine1967]

73. Exactly.

My question still remains: How can this be: "His company has built a tool that provides quotes for plans on the federal exchange" ?

CBS is using Jonathan Wu of this website as its source. How does one website provide that much information when the exchange , the website and the call centers are already doing that?

I'm still trying to find the tool he says his website has.

It's a rather strange source, honestly.

[FarCenter]

83. Here's the one for California

http://www.valuepenguin.com/ppaca/exchanges/ca

[Raine1967]

93. I clicked on the one for Virginia and I saw something peculiar

[phone]
Need Help?
Call to receive help with health insurance enrollment

That doesn't look like 800-318-2596 <--- that is the ACA phone number.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, FarCenter. There is a lot of misinformation out there, and I really believe CBS isn't helping. I

Value Penguin also appears to give quotes for pet insurance. I question -- deeply the source. If they are a brokerage type firm, then know that the ACA is going to cut into THEIR bottom line. 2 of the three founders came from a hedge fund.

[FarCenter]

100. They are probably connected to an insurance broker -- either own it or

The ACA also sets up a system of "navigators" to assist consumers in obtaining health insurance through the exchange. It also provides for certification of insurance brokers.

Health insurance brokering is probably in the stage of development that mortgage brokering was around 2002. Remember when they were pushing a lot of funky mortgage products to get people into homes with government encouragement.

[Hoyt]

91. I stumbled upon a chart somewhere that had a factor for each age year.

I bet they are using something like that.

Thus if you know the "age rating factor" for say a 27 year old (which is one of the premiums you get on healthcare.gov), you can determine the premium for any other age.

I wish I could find that table. There is something in the Federal Register -- Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act; Health Insurance Market Rules; Rate Review; A Rule by the Health and Human Services Department on 02/27/2013

[Raine1967]

96. Thanks Hoyt. If you can find it, I'd truly appreciate it.

I am starting to believe that Value Penguin is actually an insurance broker.

They may very well be getting that information from the Federal Register.

They help sell Pet Insurance: http://www.valuepenguin.com/pet-insurance/comparison (not that that's a bad thing -- but there has to be a profit motive here. )

[Hoyt]

102. See if these links don't cover it.

http://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/Files/Downloads/market-reforms-guidance-2-25-2013.pdf

http://coventryhealthcare.com/web/groups/public/@cvty_corporate_chc/documents/webcontent/c084481.pdf

[Raine1967]

105. Thanks. I found out some more stuff, put it below.

Value Penguin is a broker.

[Dreamer Tatum]

104. Because they spidered the site and built one that apparently works. nt

[Packerowner740]

66. Is this real or just spin?

I just joined because I am disabled and have Medicare plus a secondary insurance thru my wife's insurance and I'm trying to find the truth as to how this will affect me and my coverage. Hopefully I will find some answers.

[gopiscrap]

67. welcome to DU

[Skip Intro]

135. Keep that question in mind at all times.

And welcome to DU.

[Packerowner740]

145. Thanks, I will

[Raine1967]

99. Google Value Penguin insurance brokers

I think CBS should have done this before they put out this report.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Value+Penguin+insurance+brokers&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 <-- some very interesting results there.

And then there is this: http://www.insurance-forums.net/forum/health-insurance-reform-forum/value-penguin-info-feedback-t57059-7.html FRom an insurance forum, I know it's a message board, but interesting discussion nonetheless.

[grantcart]

108. The article is juvenile bullshit

Look at their proof:

CBS News ran the numbers for a 48-year-old in Charlotte, N.C., ineligible for subsidies. According to HealthCare.gov, she would pay $231 a month, but the actual plan on Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina's website costs $360, more than 50 percent higher. The difference: Blue Cross and Blue Shield requests your birthday before providing more accurate estimates.

They use the estimate and compare it against a single plan with a single company. When we qualified we qualified for 110 plans and the range between the top and bottom was over $ 1200.

I am also sure that Blue Cross has more than just one plan as there are 4 levels and companies usually have different options in each level.

It really shows a profoundly immature understanding of how insurance works.

[Autumn]

140. I would imagine the site gives only estimates.

I haven't been to the site yet but I imagine to get the correct price the insurance company would need a lot of information. But yeah the figures are probably low balled.