Photo of couple engaging in public sex act actually picture of rape, female student says

[davidn3600]

A university student photographed while appearing to be engaging in a public sex act near Ohio University's Athens campus tells police she was being raped as fellow students watched and uploaded pictures.

As many as 10 people watched and tweeted pictures and even a video of the act while describing both their shock and humor of the scene unfolding, according to students who broadcast the scene on Twitter.

The couple, described as being in their early 20s, is seen in several shots leaning against a Chase Bank window on Court Street - just a block from the Athens police station - as the man has oral sex with her.

But since the photos' upload, all of which appear to be deleted online, many have questioned whether the woman pictured wasn't actively engaging in the act herself.

A college news website since claiming access to the event's 1:27 video Wednesday reports that the sex does appear consensual and the woman appeared to be enjoying herself.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/photo-public-sex-act-rape-woman-article-1.1487092

[historylovr]

1. They always say it's consensual.

So damn disgusting.

[Nye Bevan]

2. "After finishing the act the couple posed for pictures with each other and bystanders."

I am the first to condemn any man who takes advantage of a woman who is too drunk to give consent. But the video where "the woman appeared to be enjoying herself" and the posing for pictures afterwards makes this sound like this case may not quite rise to the level of "rape". I do see that from the woman's perspective, "I was raped" may sound more acceptable than "I got drunk, had sex in public, and posed for pictures afterwards".

[morningfog]

5. What do you mean "from the woman's persepctive" may sound more acceptable?

If she was drunk and pressured into it, it was rape. Posing afterwards has shit to do with it.

ETA: See post #4.

[Nye Bevan]

7. Because the woman is the one claiming that she was raped.

I guess the man could also claim that he was drunk and the woman pressured him into performing oral sex on her. But AFAIK he is not claiming that.

[LanternWaste]

19. And quite possibly more accurate, regardless of the biases we ourselves may posses.

""I was raped" may sound more acceptable than "I got drunk, had sex in public, and posed for pictures afterwards". ..."

And quite possibly more accurate, regardless of the biases we ourselves may posses.

[msanthrope]

26. "I was raped" also tends to remove pictures/video from websites quicker. nt

[1000words]

3. Oh, boy ...

[seabeyond]

4. why dont you jsut get your article from the frat boys... here is a picture. appears too drunk

to fuckin know what is happening to her. you know. after he was done, left her fuckin passed out on the streets.



here is a BIT of a different acct, or maybe watch the police video.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023864718

the fact is, we do not know what happened. but, it does not appear as it was what you would liek to make it out to be, anyway. i suggest people actually watch the video in this article.

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. I assume this picture was taken the morning after?

Articles don't say what time the photos were taken, but the cellphone photos of the incident are in the middle of the night and the woman's complaint says some time between 01:00 and 06:00.

As you said, we don't know what happened. I hope investigators get to the bottom of this, and the video should be useful in that regard.

An Ohio University student told police Sunday that she’d been sexually assaulted after she had been drinking the previous night sometime between 1 a.m. and 6 a.m.

She filed the complaint after a video showing a man performing oral sex on her on a sidewalk in Uptown Athens had been posted to Instagram and screen shots of the video were circulated on Twitter, reported The (Athens) Post.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/16/alleged-sex-assault-near-ohio-campus-filmed-by-passerby-and-posted-on-social-media/

[msanthrope]

23. Ahem--the picture posted is not a picture of the alleged Court Street victim. nt

[morningfog]

32. How can you tell? I see green shirts on each.

[msanthrope]

48. Look at the color, type of top, shoes, hair, color of skin, etc.... nt

[msanthrope]

24. That does not appear to be the Court Street alleged victim. Why would you post that? nt

[Whiskeytide]

6. This is going to play out badly...

... - probably for all concerned. The cops/DA will look at the video and decide if they have a case they can prosecute - i.e., win. If they file charges, it will be a three ring circus. The young lady will be a topic on Nancy Grace for months. Probably will be anyway.

If they don't file charges, there will be an uproar as well. The DA will say I looked at the video and it appears consensual, and no one else (presumably- hopefully?) will have seen it and be able to contest that. There will be a lot of speculation, but very little in the way of actual facts. Perfect environment for opinions across the spectrum.

She was likely drunk. He was probably drunk too (not an excuse, just an observation). The fact that this even happened seems to suggest that, anyway. But whether or not they were drunk won't matter to the decision on whether or not to prosecute, because that will be based solely on the video. That will be Exhibit Number 1 at any trial, and both sides will live or die by it. Even if she was too drunk to give consent, that could never be proven if the video doesn't clearly show it (unless they have a blood alcohol test, which is unlikely).

And the fact that no one intervened to stop it, and instead photographed and videoed the act, also suggests that it didn't "look" like rape (whatever that might mean subjectively, I suppose) to the observers (at least I hope we're not that far gone as a species - yet anyway). That means the video probably won't show clearly that she's too drunk to consent.

I'll be surprised if there is a prosecution - but I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

[Nye Bevan]

9. If she really "looked like she was enjoying herself" on the video,

and posed for pictures afterwards, it's hard to imagine that there will be any prosecution. Of course I am aware that lots of times the initial "facts" turn out to be incorrect, in which case this obviously would not apply.

But what if the man was also drunk and claims that the woman took advantage of this and pressured him into performing oral sex on her? Would she also be guilty of rape?

Like I said, the initial facts may be wrong, but at this point this seems to be more a case of two drunk college kids being stupid than "rape".

[davidn3600]

13. You would think if they were both hammered drunk that they could both be guilty of rape

Neither could consent to the sex act. Right?

If I were the guy in question here, i'd file a report that the woman raped me.

[Nye Bevan]

15. I wonder whether that has ever happened?

Two people get drunk and pressure each other into sex, then both regret it and file rape charges?

[vaberella]

49. Probably not. However, we don't know who was the aggressor, if there was one. n/t

[R B Garr]

47. Except that he looks like the aggressor just in that one picture

It doesn't look that way to you? He has her pinned against the wall.

[vaberella]

50. That makes him the aggressor? That's not enough. n/t

[R B Garr]

54. Pinning someone against a wall to restrict their movement isn't enough?

I said "just" that one picture because it was the first representation of the events that was visible when you clicked on the article. I haven't seen the video. But the first picture of events clearly show he was actively involved in pursuing access to her while she was against a wall/window. He looks pretty aggressive in that picture.

[vaberella]

55. Based on the pics I've seen...it doesn't seem as though he was working hard to restrict.

http://gawker.com/rape-allegations-follow-viral-photo-of-public-sex-at-oh-1445924142

Dunno, I could be wrong. If she was drunk and he wasn't...that is possible. But he is not holding her hands down, she's somewhat leaning. And the way he's bent down.. a nice need to the head would have had him toppled over. He was probably intoxicated although we aren't sure of that yet.

I'm just saying i don't see restriction. Further more, a bit of restriction is found in consensual sex. Which is also why I said it's not enough.

[Demo_Chris]

56. I am assuming you have not yet seen the uneditted version of that image...

I admit, with the black covering everything it looks quite sinister. In the uneditted version I have seen the guy wasn't even looking at her, and she is smiling and seeingly chatting with an observer. In no way, shape, or form was he restraining her, nor did she appear to be upset.

[R B Garr]

63. Maybe she was smiling because she was about ready to vomit on him

Who knows. I haven't seen the smiling picture, but the posted pictures show that he appears to be more in control of his faculties and the situation than she is.

[Demo_Chris]

82. Perhaps so. However this turns out we will hear all about it. nt

[joeglow3]

59. That is why she held his head into her crotch twice, restricting HIS movement*

Something people tend to do when they are really enjoying receiving head.

Thus, the question comes down to if she was drunk. I would bet my life BOTH were hammered and nothing, rightly so, will be done.

*According to accounts from people who claim to have seen the minute and half video.

[R B Garr]

62. The pictures re-posted are the same that show him the aggressor.

In the posted pictures, her hands are 1) behind her back to brace herself against the outside window ledge of the bank, and 2) nowhere to be seen. The young man is leaning into her in both pictures. Even if drunk, he could have just backed up (or stood up) to get away from her. But he wasn't doing that. He was leaning into her.

That's not saying they both weren't drunk, but it seems futile to suggest that this young man was victimized by this young woman when he's clearly an active participant in whatever was going on. You may not believe she was raped, but the pictures do not show a young man in peril as some of you are suggesting. I have a hard time believing you are being serious at this point. Any man can get away from a drunk woman (unless she was armed with a gun, for instance), and that young man certainly could have.

[joeglow3]

65. I am saying both were most likely drunk

Eye-witness accounts seem to say she was enjoying herself and at times physically ensuring he would continue. Thus, the only way it would most likely be rape is if she was drunk. I agree with that logic, unless he was also drunk. If that was the case, either they raped each other, or no one was raped.

[R B Garr]

69. 1) she looks subdued by him 2) he looks like he is subduing her

Has he claimed that he was raped?

[joeglow3]

84. I am going off what was said by the 1 minute 27 second video there is

Not a couple still frames. Assuming what people/witnesses have said:

1. He was not forcing her. She very much enjoyed it and on two separate occasions, pulled the back of his head in and held there for an extended period of time. She then was smiling and posing for picture afterwards.
2. Thus, based on number 1 BY ITSELF there was no rape.
3. In order for there to be a rape based on the aforementioned items, her judgement would have to impaired. I would bet my life savings she was. Thus, it very well could have been rape.
4. However, one has to question if it is rape if BOTH parties were drunk, given that it appeared to be mutual.

Thus, assuming the facts stated by witnesses are true AND both parties were drunk, then either both people raped the other, or neither did.

[DragonBorn]

66. To play devils advocate

And since you seem to be sure that this guy is the aggressor based on the fact this woman is leaning against a wall, let me ask you a question. Have you ever preformed oral on a woman that's standing? They will most likely be leaning against something for balance or else they would probably fall over. Ask me how I know

Just because she is against the wall doesn't make this rape. From what I gather this woman was conscious, about 10 people saw her and I'm assuming she didn't ask anyone for help. Is this rape just because she's drunk? Is all drunken sex rape?

[R B Garr]

71. So you think she was raping him?

How is she raping him if she's leaning against the wall for balance (as you describe)?

[DragonBorn]

72. What?

Did you reply to the wrong post / poster? I never said / implied that she was raping him. I was just stating that just because she is leaning against a wall doesn't make this rape, which you seem so sure was an indicator of.

Let me ask you again have you ever preformed oral on a woman standing up? They will need to lean against something.

[R B Garr]

73. I said the pictures show he was the aggressor

and they clearly show that. Your devil's advocate theory supports that observation by describing that she was probably off balance while standing up while he was leaning into her.

[Upton]

74. The only photo I've seen shows her smiling and laughing

Sure is an odd way for a rape victim to act..

[R B Garr]

76. You're saying that as if sex in public isn't itself odd

That's where the oddness really starts. And the photos I saw show him being more in control of the situation than she was...

[lumberjack_jeff]

80. I think this is all a big rorschach test.

I doubt that many people would see a woman giving oral sex to a man leaned up against the bank window as an "aggressor".

[R B Garr]

83. The pictures I'm referring to are the two pictured in the article

She's leaning back, and he is leaning into her. She looks subdued. He looks more in control of the situation.

Then the comments started about him being raped...

Really???

[joeglow3]

85. Based on viewers of the video and witnesses, she was NOT forced

Thus, in order for it to be rape, it has to be because her judgement was impaired. My question is only if a man has sex with a drunk woman, it is quite possible her judgement is impaired and was raped. Why, if the man is drunk and his judgement is impaired, is that NOT rape?

[R B Garr]

86. Is he saying he was raped? Has he made that claim?

She's now saying that it was rape. So in this case, you already have that distinction between the two parties. That distinction looks important in this case because in just those two pictures, he clearly looks to have the ability to 1) stand up on his two feet and walk away or 2) back away from her. She doesn't look to immediately have those options because of his physical presence and body language that he was clearly leaning into her. So he doesn't 1) look like he's being raped and 2) he hasn't claimed he's being raped.

If two people are having sex in public under those circumstances, I think it's pretty safe to say and to assume that there is some substance abuse behind their behavior, so I don't doubt at all that they were intoxicated, at the very least. We'll see if he claims he was being raped by her and was unable to resist because of intoxication. But the pictures show he was able to move away from her with relative ease.

You've seen the video of witnesses who say she was smiling and enjoying herself. Yet she's saying something different was going on. I think your questions were politely asked, and I hope you didn't think I was being flippant with you because you've been very civil and forthcoming about your observations. Have a good night!

[joeglow3]

87. Do think there is a stigma for a man to claim rape

I know a guy who was raped. He was flat out passed out in a frat and a girl stripped him naked and started to have sex with him. He was upset but there was no way he would go to the police.

[R B Garr]

88. Okay, I've already admitted I'm having a hard time taking some of these comments seriously

about the man claiming rape in this case, because the man himself hasn't even claimed that yet.

But to your question, I guess the stigma would be in making a false claim to police, but that goes for each gender. Women get stigmatized to the max themselves. Just look at the comments here, and look at past rape defenses: her dress, her past sexual partners, etc. As for a man, I'm assuming he had to be aroused for her to start having sex with him, so that would indicate some level of awareness on his part... Anyway...I hope that answers your question.

[seabeyond]

64. that would be the word of the frat boys... right?

[Lucky Luciano]

53. I doubt that.

"If I were the guy in question here, i'd file a report that the woman raped me."

[MnAttorney]

8. the guy is the one being victimized

There was no intercourse. He was giving her oral sex. The video shows her pulling his head towards her during the act. She woke up, discovered it had gone viral and called rape.

[derby378]

10. It may not be "intercourse," but it is most DEFINITELY sex

If you start performing oral sex on a woman, she says "no" or makes any indication you should stop, and you keep right on doing it anyway, that sounds a helluva lot like rape to me.

[MnAttorney]

11. you are right

I agree 100%. Where is the evidence that either of those things occurred here?

[davidn3600]

12. There is no evidence she said no. Witnesses say she was enjoying it.

Then she posed for pictures afterwards.

Does that sound like rape? Good luck convincing a jury of that.

[seabeyond]

31. the frat boys have the video to go over and over and over, with another frat boy doing the act.

wow. nothing can be off on that one, for sure.

[seabeyond]

91. frat boys, with the evidence, create by another frat boy, they wont give identity, just happens to

be in a position where there is a camera, creates a sex act to put on the net.

i can easily see it as a set up and a frat boy challenge, all in good giggles.

[tillikum]

14. this is why you NEVER have sex with a drunk or impaired anything

and ALWAYS video tape the encounter in it's entirety where legal.

kills any and all chance of buyers remorse and/or opportunistic actions by either gender.

[Blue_Tires]

18. "always videotape??!"

my hands would probably be too busy to hold a camera steady, and no way am I letting some third person watch/record me puttin' in work without paying first

In all seriousness: Good luck finding any sober female you just met at a party to say "sure!" when you get the camera out...

[seabeyond]

20. wow. here a couple weeks, mens group a fav, and always video the fuck. do you get permission?

or do you hide it? put it on the net to show what a man you are?

[tillikum]

27. i came for the shutdown discussion but it seems i'm staying for the charm eh?

and for the record in any new place i visit i look for the easiest barrier to cross re: the larger group so that seems to be men for me. ya know, having a penis and all. kind of like how women stick together for social support. you know, like maybe a special group where women could get together and discuss topics relevant to them.....hmmmm. is there one of those here? who belongs to that?

you clearly don't have kids and especially not boys because a parent who isn't interested in the best interests of their sons futures over what....propriety? some idealized white knight scenario where the damsel (with apparently no agency herself) needs her delicate reputation protected? clearly must have a different agenda than that in the best interests of their progeny.

additionally, it's interesting that you didn't even disagree with the strategy, just probed around for the boundaries of it.

its all good though and thanks for your warm hello.

[seabeyond]

30. so, video sex with women without their permission. fuckin beyond creepy.

[tillikum]

35. go ahead and quote my unedited post to those words whenever u want.

waiting...................................................................

[seabeyond]

37. you made a statement. video all sex. i asked permission or not. you went into a whine about me lovin

My sons and wanting them to protect themselves.

I asked. Permission or not?

Answer. Give me a straight answer. Or we will have to assume the whine about protecting sons is permission is not needed. Boys being protected is what matter.

Permission or not

[tillikum]

38. Aunt Sally went home already. Maybe next time.

night.

[seabeyond]

39. so, you show all this man you are.... tape that sex. grunt scratch grunt. but now... you wont own it

Now you wont tell us what your all that awesome man would do. Tape a woman without her knowing? Massive creep and I would suggest a woman visit a police station.

Permission? Ya. Right. Like you .... Bah ha ha ha.

You started this macho game of yours. Running away...?

[tillikum]

40. you better google "Aunt Sally" before doubling down. lol.

[seabeyond]

41. no. i had better not. you seem to have a huge issue being clear. i asked for clarification.

That is not doubling down or anything else. You are the one that plays fuckin cowardly games.

Pathetic.

[tillikum]

42. i used the english language friend, and i don't argue straw men. like I said, have a great night.

maybe some chamomile or something. yikes.

[seabeyond]

43. you say always video tape. i ask permission or hide video. no strawman my friend only a man that

Plays at being all that, but is not.

Ya... yikes

[NuclearDem]

33. I have a penis and all and my favorite group according to my profile is a feminist group.

You know, where videotaping sex with women without their permission because, uh, buyer's remorse, is viewed as nothing short of creepy.

[tillikum]

36. see post 35.

[Gravitycollapse]

45. Most people would consider it immoral to videotape someone without their consent.

Of course, not everyone, as you have evidenced.

[tillikum]

57. very true and if not illegal to do so, a difficult issue indeed

but so is defending a false allegation as the Duke Lacrosse fiasco proved, as is the help that video gave to convicting the Steubenville criminals. in the end it's about truth and justice.

in the latter, i'm glad there was footage.

personally, I don't put myself in positions of excess alcohol, any video taping that would require consent, or even questionable circumstances so i don't need to battle these particular moral or legal issues so i can focus on others closer to my interests and activities.

ymmv

[vaberella]

51. Apparently both were drunk. I think it's safe to say you never have sex WHILE drunk. n/t

[tillikum]

58. i agree whole heartedly.

[Brickbat]

17. Whether it's rape or not, it's sad and ugly.

[NuclearDem]

21. If she was drunk then it doesn't fucking matter if she "looked like she was enjoying herself"

Intoxication makes consent impossible. As fucking simple as that.

[davidn3600]

25. Yeah but he was drunk too, so then doesn't that mean he couldnt consent either?

[NuclearDem]

34. It means college kids have to be taught about how alcohol makes consent impossible.

When alcohol comes out, no and yes both mean no.

[joeglow3]

60. So, she raped him

[Last Stand]

68. While "legally" correct,

the suggestion that drunk college kids will stop screwing is laughable. That's what they do. In fact, it's not uncommon for adults to split a bottle of wine or a 6-pack and have sex when both parties are technically over the legal limit of intoxication. No harm, no foul. It happens literally millions of times each and every weekend. Raise your hand if you've never done it.

I understand why the legal system may need to qualify "consent" when someone is compromised from drugs or alcohol, but I frankly don't think that particular part of the equation is the real point. It really has to do with exploitation, active coercion and other such factors IMO. Alcohol, violence and undue influence are merely vehicles.

[tillikum]

28. this this THIS.

no booze, no sex for either gender. it is de facto RAPE in our culture and this needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

[Courtesy Flush]

44. Deleted

[Demo_Chris]

90. Not even close...

In our culture, at present, men and women are free to drink, get plastered, and fuck like horny rabbits if that is their desire. You might prefer that society abandon this and adopt your "it's always rape" standard, but that is not the case today and likely will not be the case tomorrow -- for very good reasons. Using the logic from your post, one could also assume that someone who has been drinking is incapable of ANY rational thought or consent, and a man who gives a woman a safe and sex free ride home from a bar is guilty of kidnapping. After all, she didn't consent to the ride, even when she said "That would be great, thanks!", because consent (under your definition) would be impossible.

Fortunately that's not how it works. It is NOT rape, or even assumed to be rape, until a conviction is returned by a jury. And in this particular case, based on what we have seen o far, that's never going to happen.

[vaberella]

52. What if he was drunk too?

I think there are people who seem to forget here that men can get raped and can be forced into acting in things while they are drunk. We don't know anything except that there is a video tape and pictures and both parties were drunk. We know nothing of who gave consent to who or who did NOT give consent.

[NuclearDem]

61. If either of them were drunk, consent is impossible.

If one was sober, it still wouldn't matter. Consent requires both parties.

Yes, male rape is a thing, and I'm not discounting that. But their gender is not the one that is societally programmed to be available for sex at all times and serve as tools for the other's pleasure.

[vaberella]

67. I completely agree with you. I am female.

However, in this case I'm iffy because I sincerely don't know what is going on or went on. The Stubenville case was clear cut for me. This one...

[tillikum]

70. and there it is....

[Comrade Grumpy]

78. I think you just criminalized half the college students in America.

And a whole bunch of other people.

[NuclearDem]

79. Just because it's pervasive doesn't mean it's right.

[gollygee]

77. I think it depends on the specifics

Like if one was drunk to the point of passing out or needing to be led around and held up to walk, and the other was a bit drunk but with it enough to lead someone to where they wanted them, take their clothes off, and have some kind of sexual contact, then it seems clear that one was in the position to force and the other was not in a position to consent.

[gollygee]

29. "Too drunk to stand up on her own" might look like "enjoying it"

to people making assumptions walking down the street. And "posing for photos" doesn't take being even slightly sober or very with it at all.

[Demo_Chris]

46. The images I have seen of this girl smiling lead me to question her story...

For whatever that's worth.

[Sheldon Cooper]

75. Why am I not surprised?

[Demo_Chris]

81. I don't know Sheldon, why aren't you?