Signs of Real Victory

[RobertEarl]

When you see these things, then you can gloat:

Boehner and Cantor resign.

Medicare for all becomes law.

SS payments keep up with inflation.

War and the MIC budgets are cut in half.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

I know many of you will feel that these are just ramblings from another dissatisfied leftist. And to you I say, quit deluding yourselves. Join us. Become a Leftist and quit being a teabagger enabling moderate/centrist.

[Hutzpa]

1. Trumps

:

[BluegrassStateBlues]

2. You have to win the battles to win the war. nt

[ProSense]

4. Some people are happy if they can stomp all over any Democratic victory. n/t

[ProSense]

3. Yet you're declaring a victory for teabaggers without

Obama impeached.

Health care law repealed.

Social Security cut.

Medicare privatized.

[Kaleva]

5. +1

[RobertEarl]

8. You are deluded

They won this battle.

And instead of you having a proper reaction and getting on board with the Left as described in my OP, you attack me and make up slander. Thanks a lot, M. moderate. All you have done is enable the teabaggers.

[ProSense]

10. You're absurd

Also, the list of so-called victories in the OP is ridiculously lame.

[Dawgs]

19. Not sure someone with an avatar for a GOP healthcare plan should comment on what's lame.

Or, maybe that makes perfect sense.

[ProSense]

27. Here's a clue

from the Senator in your avatar

The Week in Review

The government shutdown dragged into a second week. A growing majority of Democrats and about 20 Republicans in the House favor a Senate-passed resolution to reopen the government, but Speaker John Boehner refused to bring the resolution up for a vote. When House Republicans first forced a shutdown on Oct. 1, they were demanding the defunding of Obamacare as part of any deal. That would be a death sentence for thousands of Americans without health insurance, Sen. Bernie Sanders told a Senate hearing on Thursday. As the week wore on, Republicans shifted their rationale for closing the government and defaulting on the country’s debts. Now they demand deep cuts in Social Security and other programs. The whole spectacle drove public approval of Congress, especially Republicans and the Tea Party, to new lows. As Sanders sized up the situation in a Friday floor speech, he began by citing a piece in The Onion. “Psychiatrists Deeply Concerned for 5% of Americans Who Approve of Congress,” the headline said.

<...>

Obamacare “How many people will die if the Affordable Care Act is repealed?” Sanders asked at a hearing he chaired Thursday on what would happen if Obamacare is repealed. The hearing came on the 10th day of a government shutdown forced by House Republicans insisting that any deal to reopen the government defund the health care law. Watch excerpts from the hearing, Read Greg Kaufmann’s piece in The Nation

<...>

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/recent-business/the-week-in-review-101113

This Week in Poverty: What ‘Defunding Obamacare’ Really Means

Greg Kaufmann

When the fate of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) was in question, independent Senator Bernie Sanders was no easy “yea” vote.

<...>

In the end, Sanders helped to pass the ACA—legislation that Republicans are now so desperate to repeal that they have shut down the government and put the full faith and credit of the US in jeopardy...He noted that “we are (still) the only country in the industrialized world that doesn’t guarantee healthcare to people as a right.” As a result, there are 48 million Americans without health insurance. Under the ACA, 20 million currently uninsured people will finally receive coverage (more if GOP governors get out of the way) and thousands of lives will be saved every year...Sanders pointed to a Harvard study that estimates 45,000 people are dying each year from illnesses that arise due to a lack of health insurance....“For all of those folks saying we have to repeal the Affordable Care Act, what they are doing is passing a death sentence on many of our fellow Americans.”

Ron Pollack, executive director of Families USA, a nonprofit organization that advocates for affordable healthcare for all Americans... used a “conservative” methodology—designed by the nonpartisan Institute of Medicine—to determine how many people between the ages of 25 and 64 died in 2010 due to a lack of health insurance.

“We found that approximately 26,100 people between the ages of 25 and 64 died prematurely due to a lack of health coverage that year,” said Pollack...this breaks down to 2,175 people dying every month, 502 every week, and seventy-two every day...between 2005 and 2010, it added up to 134,000 preventable deaths...That’s a number that resonates with Independent Senator Angus King of Maine, who shared his personal experience with health being determined by coverage.

<...>

“These deaths occur invisibly,” he said. “They occur one at a time, all over the place, and it doesn’t say in the obituary ‘died because of no healthcare.’ If it happened all in one town, at one time, we would be moving heaven and earth to solve this problem, if we lost anywhere from 26,000 to 45,000 (people) a year. If we lost the town of Augusta in one year, and the next year it was someplace in Colorado, or Vermont, this society would have dealt with this many, many years ago.”

- more -

http://www.thenation.com/blog/176599/week-poverty-what-defunding-obamacare-really-means

[Dawgs]

34. Got it. You're partisan and blind. n/t

[ProSense]

39. So you're not "partisan" if you're hyping this as teabagger win?

OK

Tea Party Nation Whines "The Complete Surrender of the Republican Party"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023863110

The OP is simply an attempt to piss on a Democratic victory in favor of teabaggers.

Tea Party Won This Battle
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023862322

[Dawgs]

48. Not sure you know what "partisan" means.

I don't support the tea party, and I'm certainly not happy about it.

I'm just calling it the way I see it.

[RobertEarl]

21. You are projecting

My Op is quite fucking sane. Unlike your centrist views which have allowed teabaggers to become so powerful.

[ProSense]

24. No

"My Op is quite fucking sane. Unlike your centrist views which have allowed teabaggers to become so powerful."

...it's "quite fucking" lame.

Boehner and Cantor resign.

Medicare for all becomes law.

SS payments keep up with inflation.

War and the MIC budgets are cut in half.

$25 minimum wage

Republican Party abolished.

Single payer enacted

Social security cap eliminated and benefits increased 20 percent.

Defense budget cut 75 percent

If the OP wants to piss on today's surrender by Republicans and declare them winners, do it fucking right.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

29. Lololol. Taking this awfully hard, aren't you?

If you were king for a day, what would you have done differently as Dem leadership?

P.S. hectoring people who don't join your political views is not the way to increase following. You're starting to sound like Ted Cruz now.

[Dawgs]

37. Wow. Talk about completely missing the point.

You and ProSense should get together.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

41. We have. We meet every Tuesday for "paid shill" coordination

She's even more captivating in person.

[Dawgs]

44. Great. I hope it's less embarrassing than what you post here. n/t

[LanternWaste]

92. Battle are only won when the objectives are met. Objectives were not met, hence, no win...

Battle are only won when the objectives are met. Objectives were not met, hence, no win...

[pinboy3niner]

9. +2 and...

Also, notably, here are some of the demands that Republicans have made in the last few days, but that are NOT in the bill:

No repeal of the “extraordinary measures” provision that allows the Treasury to do accounting tricks to avoid default

No ‘Vitter Amendment‘ that would have taken away employer contributions from the health plans of Congressional staff

No provisions related to birth control access

No flexibility in how government agencies make budget cuts to their programs, as they are required to under sequestration

No repeal or delay of the medical device tax

No repeal or delay of the reinsurance tax

No repeal, replacement, or delay of any aspects of Obamacare’s exchanges or individual mandate


At timestamp 11:41am:
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/10/15/2779001/debt-ceiling-shutdown-liveblog/

[Raine1967]

11. +1

Thank you Pro.

This is almost offensive:

Become a Leftist and quit being a teabagger enabling moderate/centrist.

[RobertEarl]

15. That offends you?

Becoming a Leftist offends you?

I rest my case.

[Raine1967]

23. You just called everyone who doesn't agree with you an enabler.

You probably should go rest alongside your case.

[RobertEarl]

49. You do understand?

and all this time I thought that impossible.....

Yes. Moderates and centrists enable the teabaggers. Only the dissatisfied Left stands in their way. Please, join us.

[geek tragedy]

28. No, you talking to Duers like Ted Cruz talks to people is what's offending people nt

[Aerows]

47. +1000 n/t

[RobertEarl]

54. No. Cruz does not offend moderates

But keep attacking the Left. You make Cruz happy. We are all that stands up against them in real life. The tragedy is that moderates are wimps.

[geek tragedy]

64. Did you really just write "Cruz does not offend moderates?" nt

[RobertEarl]

69. Yes.

Oh, they act like they are offended, but deep down all they can think about is Cruz this and Cruz that. They are reduced to babbling about Cruz, instead of making real progress and changing this country by joining the Left, y'know?

[geek tragedy]

70. I think you're starting to drift away from Cruz and towards Gohmert with that line. Better quit

while you're behind.

[RobertEarl]

73. And Ghomert too

I would never take any political advice from you, with this Cruz this and Ghomert that.

My OP, read it again, is something real Dems support. Can I get your support?

[geek tragedy]

76. Oh dear lord, is this sincere or performance art? nt

[Raine1967]

79. I'm trying to figure that out as well.

This is one of the strangest threads I've seen here in a while.

[11 Bravo]

78. Stating that "Cruz does not offend moderates" renders you slightly less credible than Sarah Palin.

Whatever one may think of your other opinions, that one is patently, demonstrably, and hilariously false.

[RobertEarl]

82. Really?

One example of moderates being offended by Cruz, then? And not from the flake moderates here who just use his name to try and gain anti-left talking points. Real world example, if you can, bravo. I bet you can't.

[11 Bravo]

85. Right off the top of my head, Tom Davis, former Republican congressman from NOVA.

Then, of course, there are also the myriad polls which show exactly that.

[Dawgs]

12. RobertEarl didn't say "victory". He said they won THIS battle.

Big difference, and he was right.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

52. What is the substantive difference between a win and a victory?

None

[Dawgs]

55. I'll give you an answer in a month when none of this will matter anymore. n/t

[Kaleva]

60. Which would be a victory.

The Battle of Gazala is considered by many to be Rommel's greatest victory.

[11 Bravo]

6. Piss in your own Corn Flakes. Many of us prefer ours dry, or with milk.

[Aerows]

50. Or on our fried chicken

*wink*

[pinboy3niner]

58. *GASP*

[Aerows]

61. Just kidding

I make a fantastic crust with flour, but it's fun to tweak the corn flake lovers

[11 Bravo]

74. Oh, now you've done it!

[Aerows]

77. LMAO n/t

[Dawgs]

7. $10 Minimum wage is a MUST on my list.

Plus yours.

[RobertEarl]

13. Indeed.

But in reality $20 an hour may not even be fair.

[ProSense]

18. $25 minimum wage

Boehner and Cantor resign.

Medicare for all becomes law.

SS payments keep up with inflation.

War and the MIC budgets are cut in half.

Republican Party abolished.

Single payer enacted

Social security cap eliminated and benefits increased 20 percent.

Defense budget cut 75 percent

If the OP wants to piss on today's surrender by Republicans and declare them winners, do it fucking right.

[Dawgs]

25. First of all, no one has surrendered yet.

Second, you shitting on progressive/liberal goals says more about where you stand than anything else.

Third, the GOP won a lot more in this fight than a partisan like you will ever admit. Frankly, it's just sad.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

36. Hahahaha! Funny funny stuff. Even outright capitulation doesn't do it

For you. DU certainly has its share of crackpots.

[Dawgs]

42. I give, since this is a game to you. What did Democrats get out of this?

Any new laws passed? Any elections won?

Anything?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

46. The last whimper of legitimate opposition to Obamacare

Republicans split and at each other's throats, GOP favorables at record lows, almost guaranteed acquiescence by GOP to more realistic compromises on long term budget...

To name a few.

[Dawgs]

53. Obamacare was NEVER going to be touched with Obama as President.

And no upcoming elections.

And no guarantee that we won't go through the same thing in a few months.

Nothing for now.

[ProSense]

66. What the hell are you talking about?

The OP list is lame, and the fact that you're ignoring or characterizing the suggestions I made as "shitting on progressive/liberal goals" indicates you're either not reading the comment objectively or don't know what you're talking about.

Any hoo, teabaggers are sad today.

[Dawgs]

80. Read it loud and clear. n/t

[mulsh]

14. Thanks, I've veen waiting for you to give me permission to celebrate.

n/t

[Pretzel_Warrior]

16. SS payments ARE keeping up with inflation. YaY! We won!

Social Security is adjusted based on CPI. Something most wage earners could only wish for.

[RobertEarl]

26. Great centrist view

My gawd, how can you keep going like that?

[Raine1967]

17. No, this is a rambling from a person who wants to create division.

way to divided what was a fairly united DU -- way to insult a lot of DU members.

Way to create a shit storm where none was needed.

Blech.

[RobertEarl]

33. Division?

No. I want to win. I want all those things in my OP and more. You don't? You like the status quo? You are happy with how things are?

[Raine1967]

45. You might want to look up the definition of straw man.

or maybe read about how to make friends an influence people. Good day.

[RobertEarl]

57. I did

It says: see raine1967.

But you just keep on attacking the Left and our ideals. See where that gets you.

[Raine1967]

65. Well. Ok.

You win.

Doesn't that feel good? You WON!

[RobertEarl]

68. Eh?

No. I have not won. Give me what is in the OP and more. That would be a win. It would be a win for the whole country. Why don't you want all that, too?

[LaydeeBug]

20. Nah, we should celebrate the victories just as we mourn the losses and move forward. nt

[geek tragedy]

22. Your last sentence is a perfect impersonation of Ted Cruz and his

purist rants against the "Surrender Caucus" inside the Republican party.

[RobertEarl]

30. You are projecting

It really is ugly. You need to try on some Leftist footwear, it will make you brave.

Centrism is what got us here today. Moderates are the reason teabaggers have any creds. You should learn to walk the way of the left.

[geek tragedy]

35. LMAO. nt

[sufrommich]

40. You sound exactly like a teabagger,just exchange "left"

for "right".

[RobertEarl]

62. Such ugly slander from you!

Shows why I usually just ignore you.

But I see my OP has brought such out from the shadows? Just look at all the names attacking my Leftists views!

[ProSense]

43. It seems like you're pissed that the teabaggers got their asses kicked

Tea Party Won This Battle
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023862322

I'm sensing you don't like the fact that people are celebrating their big fucking FAIL.

[RobertEarl]

59. Your slander is not helping

It never did. I guess you like that we are still hurting and you are happy we are? I'm not. I am not satisfied, I don't know how anyone but a teabagger enabler could be.

[Xyzse]

31. I can understand. Still, it is good to take stock of little victories.

This is a little victory. I can only hope that this takes the wind out of their sails and they implode in next year's election.

Other than that, I can't really celebrate yet. Government is still shut down. We'll figure more things out tonight/tomorrow.

[Beearewhyain]

32. While I would love to see the things you list

come to fruition, that's not the battle we just fought.

To extend the battle analogy, it is like wondering why General Washington, after winning at Yorktown, didn't sack London.

[sufrommich]

38. Dude, no one here needs your permission to gloat.nt

[HappyMe]

51. No kidding.

None of the stuff on the OP list has anything to do with what just happened.

[LadyHawkAZ]

56. When I see them I will gloat. Meanwhile...

imma gloat about this one too.

Have a nice day, Grumpy Cat.

[deutsey]

63. I'm a leftist...I'd love to see the things you list here become reality

but in this toxic political environment, we won't be seeing that happen any time soon.

While I'll continue working toward such goals, I'm glad to do some celebrating now, as well.

[Raine1967]

67. RobertEarl, your OP is nothing but flame bait.

and so are your responses.

I accept that the DU community might find this ok, but you, sir, are doing nothing more than stirring shit. You know it, I know it and a good number of people participating in this thread know it.

But you win. You are right I guess. I hope that pleases you. Winning is so much more important than seeing our nation defaulting on its debt.

Have a nice day.

[RobertEarl]

71. Says a shit stirrer

All you have done is crapped all over this thread.

[HappyMe]

81. lol!

You started the crap fest.

What exactly are you doing to achieve your lofty goals there? Other than posting here that people are 'enablers' and tea party sympathizers and other garbage?

[RobertEarl]

83. Crush the moderates, first

You in line? Or do you want some of what's in the OP? Doesn't seem you or the other shit stirrers do.

[HappyMe]

84. Nope, I don't want any of that.

So by 'crush' the moderates, you mean posting insulting stuff here? That, and a dollar won't even get you on the bus.

Basically, I take it you aren't doing anything.

[RobertEarl]

86. Don't want any of the OP?

You want Boehner to remain?

No health care for all?

The MIC given more?

Wow, You just exposed yourself. Glad I could help.

[HappyMe]

87. Good grief!

Wow! You don't understand SARCASM!

Still no answer on what you are actually doing to bring about your list.



I thought so.

[RobertEarl]

89. Answer

I don't attack Leftists, for one.

Two, I sure as fuck don't get you. You can't even write much without acting unhappy with Leftist programs.

But you can clear it all up here and now, eh? But you won't. You will just keep your unhappy sarcasm won't you?

[HappyMe]

93. Don't attack others here

by calling them tea party sympathizers, enablers and such.

I sure as fuck don't care if you 'get' me. As far as the rest of your 'unhappy' babbling.....

Who are you going to put up for 2016? Doing any campaign fund raising? Making calls? Anything?

[RobertEarl]

94. Moderates are enablers

Only true Left has made any progress in this country. And it comes because we make the moderates quit enabling the teabaggers. It's history.

[HappyMe]

95. Good luck with that.

[LanternWaste]

96. You appear to be creating your own definitions and supporting evidence, basing both your premises an

You appear to be creating your own definitions and supporting evidence, basing both your premises and conclusions off of that... which isn't really how critical thought or fundamental logic operates.

[Broward]

72. Many of these Democratic moderates/centrists in Washington

love to see themselves as "reasonable." They're so reasonable that they're even willing to cut your social security.

[RobertEarl]

75. Yep

And even here on this thread we have posters saying SS has not been cut. Enablers of the worst kind.

[lame54]

88. Not waiting for your permission...

[LanternWaste]

90. Signs of an actual GOP defeat: Not achieving any of the specific goals originally set...

Signs of an actual GOP defeat: Not achieving any of the specific goals originally set... regardless of how one may rationalize that by calling other people teabaggers, enablers, or any other petulant pejorative...

[AZ Progressive]

91. What a f**kin downer!

And that coming from an occasional critic of Obama.

[DonCoquixote]

97. You need to celebrate when you win

in order to have the energy for the fight. No one is sayign the war is over, only that we finally have some break in the clouds, which we need to capitalize on.