I don't get all the crowing. Nothing has been signed yet, and even IF the Senate signs off

[kestrel91316]

on a deal, it still also has to be signed off on by the House. AND THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

So I'm not celebrating jack shit yet.

[MineralMan]

1. I believe you will find that you are incorrect.

This will all be settled today, at least for the short term.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

2. I was under the impression it passed the House on Dem votes and a few GOPers nt

[kestrel91316]

13. Boehner hasn't brought anything up for a vote. THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM.

THAT'S WHY THE COUNTRY IS BEING HELD HOSTAGE.

[oldhippie]

17. Not yet .....

That's the plan, but it hasn't happened yet.

[MADem]

3. No need to get angry, now. nt

[Pretzel_Warrior]

10. Lol

[kestrel91316]

16. WTF?????????????

I'm angry about people cheering something that doesn't stand a chance of passing the House. It's stupid.

[MADem]

21. I think you might have misjudged the mood of the House at this stage. nt

[kestrel91316]

27. The House is still quite determined to keep things shut down, and Boehner is still

under the teabaggers' thumb.

Somebody said he "agreed" to something????? That's BS. His word isn't worth jack shit.

[PoliticAverse]

62. You bought the myth that the teabaggers run the house, in the end, they don't. n/t

[tjwash]

28. LOL - I was just thinking that the concern being shown is touching.

This is like what - the 20th thread saying the exact same thing in the past hour by different folks?

[MADem]

32. Can't understand why folks aren't more pleased; nothing to recommend a "gloom and doom" stance!

House Republicans are saying on TV around the globe that there's a bill coming over from the Senate. They KNOW that the blame for default would be squarely placed on their shoulders.

They aren't saying that they are going to fight it. The kinds of things they are saying is

"Well, this is only TEMPORARY....WE'RE the 'balanced budget assholes'....waaah, waaah, waah, we were just trying to make a point!!! Pay no attention to the squawkers...we want to be positive, we want to be responsible, blah, blah bullshit!"

They are desperately trying to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, and they're getting their fingers bitten off in the process.

We know what they did this October--it was Nightmare on Capitol Hill, and it was all their fault!

[Mojorabbit]

41. We GAVE them the income verification for the ACA that they were demanding

They should get nothing. If they make it more difficult to sign up for the ACA it will slow enrollment even more than it is already.
"The proposal would also require income verification for people receiving health insurance premium subsidies from the federal government and it would ensure that the Treasury Department has the authority to use "extraordinary measures" to extend temporarily the debt limit, if necessary."
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senate-leaders-agreement-extends-debt-limit-feb-cruz/story?id=20582151

[MADem]

43. They gave them something that was already required.

They gave them nothing, in effect.

[Mojorabbit]

47. Do you have a link that that is so

because it makes no sense that they really wanted this and worked so hard to get it if so..
Googling it, daily kos disagrees with you.http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/14/1247282/-Stringent-Income-Verification-Requirements-for-Obamacare-Could-Easily-Undermine-ACA-Rollout

[MADem]

48. It's a semantics game. They got NUTHIN'....

Meanwhile, the GOP is pressuring the Department of Health and Human Services to strengthen the income verification requirements for individuals who earn above 400 percent of the federal poverty line and qualify for subsidies under the law. HHS had announced that it would rely on applicants’ self-reported income information to verify whether they accurately represented their earnings and “only double-check a statistically significant number of these people with large income discrepancies, rather than the entire group.” The Senate deal would “call for the Secretary of Health and Human Services to certify that adequate verification processes were already in place” and require a follow-up audit from the Inspector General.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/14/2778591/emerging-senate-budget-deal-change-obamacare/

So, HHS certifies that what is already in place is "adequate" for their purposes, and the IG follows up. What are they gonna do if all of the numbers aren't lining up? Cry?

As the White House put it:

“The HHS Secretary has already put in place an effective and efficient system for verification of eligibility for premium tax credits and cost sharing reductions,” the administration official said. “The role of the IG in the compromise bill is to perform a retrospective analysis, which is consistent with the traditional role of an IG, and will not impede or affect the provision of benefits to individuals through the ACA.”



Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/10/16/white-house-cheers-senate-deal-without-declaring-victory/#ixzz2hv64rzRS

[Mojorabbit]

51. If it is indeed impossible to certify this then that would stop the aca in it's tracks

wouldn't it? I wish the details of what is in the compromise were out there to read. I can't figure out why we gave them anything much less this.

[MADem]

54. You are replying to yourself when I think you meant to reply to me.

Look, I can "certify" that DU is a website that smells better than any other website on the internet.

My "certification" is nothing more than my say-so, just as HHS's "certification" is nothing more than THEIR say-so.

HHS has "certified" that they have sufficient mechanisms in place. The IG will run a fast audit at some point down the line---that's good governance, not a "win" for the GOP.

As far as the GOP is concerned, that's all they're gonna get. It was a bunch of words to make them feel better.

They got....well, NOTHING.

[Mojorabbit]

58. They really wanted it though. I hope it was just a bunch of words and that the

kos article is not correct. If it was nothing I can't see why they pushed so hard for it.

[Sissyk]

42. Yes!

We know what they did this October--it was Nightmare on Capitol Hill, and it was all their fault!

This is it. Everyone knows exactly whos fault all this is.

I, too, think we're over the rough patch and everything will be signed and ready to go. They are not going to make themselves look even more stupid than they already have.

[kestrel91316]

44. Well I wouldn't know because I haven't been living on DU lately.

And the implication that I'm a "concern troll" after all these years and 48k+ posts is pretty laughable. Especially coming from YOU.

I DO NOT EVER trust Repukes. They would shank their own grandmother if they thought they could gain a penny from the deal.

[TwilightGardener]

4. I think it will probably get through the House, but they might try some last-minute bullshit--

something to improve the morale of the teabaggers so they feel like they got something out of this (and so Ted Cruz doesn't get run out of town on a rail). I don't trust them. It ain't over til it's over.

[uponit7771]

5. I don't see the "win" either other than moderates wont like the TP folk, the moderates weren't votin

... for them anyway so the TP hasn't lost a damn thing.

The people who vote TP don't care who they hurt as long as it's dems and Obama

[PoliticAverse]

6. The House will agree to it as they only need Boehner to bring it to the floor and find 17 Republican

votes for it.

[kestrel91316]

18. Boehner won't bring it to the floor. Why don't people get that?????

He has ALL the power in this scenario and we are completely helpless.

Times like this I really wonder if the people suggesting we switch to a parliamentary system might not be right. We are SO FUCKED.

[PoliticAverse]

24. I think you underappreciate the strength of the forces allied against allowing a default. n/t

[MADem]

26. That's not what they're saying on the Hill, though.

And it's REPUBLICANS who are saying it, so, there's that small point.

Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) has agreed to allow a vote in the House on the emerging Senate debt-ceiling deal, according to a Senate source.


Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) were racing Wednesday to put the finishing touches on the deal ahead of Thursday's deadline for raising the $16.7 trillion debt limit.
The draft of the Senate agreement would raise the debt ceiling until Feb. 7, reopen the government until Jan. 15 and form a budget conference to resolve the automatic spending cuts under sequestration.


"The Speaker will bring that bill to the House floor," Rep. Kevin Brady (R-Texas) told Bloomberg television Wednesday morning.


Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/328803-boehner-to-allow-vote-on-senate-deal#ixzz2huTVdMw9

[PoliticAverse]

60. As I indicated he brought it to the floor and they had way more than the 17 Repub. votes necessary.

[Puzzledtraveller]

7. That's all it takes to make us happy.

Nothing.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

9. Interesting. I'm noticing a pattern.

[Puzzledtraveller]

14. I'm noticing a pattern too.

And it's pretzel shaped.

[LanternWaste]

23. A puzzling patina of patterned prophecies indeed...

A puzzling patina of patterned prophecies indeed...

[Pretzel_Warrior]

8. It is fait accompli now. Only those in denial see it otherwise

[sufrommich]

11. The House is already a done deal. That's why Boener is

allowing the vote.

[kestrel91316]

22. A "deal" is not signed legislation. People can talk "deal" 'til the cows come home.

Doesn't mean they intend to sign jack shit.

I don't trust those fuckers as far as I can throw them.

[sufrommich]

38. Fine,immerse yourself in self inflicted drama.

Boehner is dropping the Hasert rule,he wouldn't do that unless he thought the votes are there.

[robinlynne]

12. They all made a deal yesterday. BUT I agree 100% about the crowing. disgusting.

[onenote]

15. "Never" must mean something different to you than to everyone else.

You should invest in a new dictionary.

[atreides1]

19. Agreed

Until this Senate bill has passed the house and is sitting on the President's desk, waiting for a signature...it isn't over!

[cali]

20. I don't think you get how this works.

They're putting it up for a vote in the House first to thwart any idiot moves from Cruz or Lee. After the House votes, the repukes won't be able to stop it in the Senate. Bonehead has agreed to bring the Senate drafted legislation to the floor. There are enough votes to pass it there.

that's why people are celebrating.

[kestrel91316]

25. Why on earth, after all this shit, does anyone in their right mind think the House

will actually VOTE on this?????????????????

They know that the government stays shut as long as they refuse to vote.

[ohheckyeah]

30. Because their ratings are in the tank,

Americans are pissed off, and they want to keep their jobs in the House?

[cali]

31. first of all, they count votes over there. Quaint, I know, but

they do it. Boehner wouldn't put this to a vote if he didn't have the votes lined up.

[AlinPA]

33. Boehner has worked hard toward the default.He won't quit now. Success to that crazy fool is default

[MADem]

36. Because Republicans are going on television--from BBC to CNN to MSNBC to Bloomberg to CNBC, etc--and

saying that they will "actually VOTE on this" you see.

Republicans.


House Republicans.


House Republicans who are carrying water for Boehner.

They've gotten their marching orders.

[regnaD kciN]

46. Because we READ news reports…

…and you obviously DON'T??????????????????

[onenote]

53. +1

[onenote]

49. I'm going to go out on a limb

Maybe because we believe that its more like that the President, Reid, Pelosi and the rest of the Democrats in the House and Senate are in their right mind than posters on an Internet board that live in their own reality?

[AlinPA]

40. One small thing- re: "Bonehead has agreed" Why all the this trust in Boehner doing the right thing?

As we have seen through all this mess, that man can't be trusted. He reneged on a promise made to Reid earlier on a deal (the disclosed emails)

[MADem]

52. He's dispatched his minions and they're talking to reporters from around the globe.

They are saying this very thing. They are saying that BONEHEAD has said this very thing.

He's not going to turn dozens of freshmen into liars. That's not how you keep your caucus afloat.

[AlinPA]

29. Agree 100% I just saw a headline on Bloomberg TV "Default Threat Ends". Hell, the House hasn't

even decided a vote will be taken! There are bullshit rumors that "Boehner will allow a vote" Why would he do a 180?

[onenote]

50. Still think those are "bullshit rumors"?

[AlinPA]

55. Until I see a vote in the House, I don't trust Boehner or Cantor.

[Douglas Carpenter]

34. Capitalist power wants this to come to a vote and for the shutdown to end

just last night - when out and about - I said that it would probably pass a free vote in the Housebut I doubt that would be allowed. But, it now appears I was probably wrong and that a vote will probably happen and pass. Ultimately capitalist power to whom all political forces must bow cannot allow a default nor can they allow a threat of default to go on much longer - nor can they allow the economy to continue much longer being hobbled by the shutdown - nor can they allow the precedent of this tactic to become established as an routine acceptable practice

[MSMITH33156]

35. What is going to "win"

when this passes is not the Democratic party, but the American system of government. That's what will win. We are a country with majority rule, and what was beaten back was the attempts of a minority to extort the majority.

No, we didn't get anything, nor should we have. It was actually important that we did not. Because, had we flipped the script and forced concessions out of them it would have reinforced the idea that this sort of thing can be negotiated over, at gunpoint. Just because, mid-shutdown, we knocked the gun out of their hand and could have pointed it back at them does not mean we should have.

This was the only goal that would have been a win for America. If we want concessions, we should go through the budgetary process and negotiate it in conference with the House Republican majority. That is how government should work, has always worked, and MUST work if elections are actually to matter. Hopefully, this is the first step towards that process as there is language forcing this conference. Now that the Republicans know extortion won't work, we can cut a deal that is fair and move forward as a country.

We didn't get anything, but America perhaps gained some sanity, and majority rule was affirmed. Those are great things.

[Adsos Letter]

45. "That is how government...MUST work if elections are actually to matter."

Thank you.

[Xyzse]

37. True. I don't get it either.

I am waiting to see what happens in the House first.

Also, if it doesn't go beyond this year, I don't see the point of it.

[MSMITH33156]

39. Of course

he will allow a vote on this. He never wanted a default, hell he didn't even want this fight. The Tea Party threw him into it, and now, the reason he will allow the vote is that it has bipartisan support in the Senate. This isn't the clean CR with only Dems voting for it. It is bipartisan and if he blocks it, he will be responsible for the default. It will actually be called "Boehner's Default".

I am sure part of him is glad that the Tea Party is pissed. He can't be pleased with them at all. They essentially ruined him. He is not going to take the country into default at their expense and never was. He was always going to blink, and everyone knew it, including the President, which is why he wouldn't negotiate. This is him blinking.

[DCBob]

56. The votes were always there in House. The issue was whether Boener would allow a vote.

He has said he will. He's given in since he sees no other option. The old guard, Boehner, McConnel, McCain, etc don't want a default.

[onenote]

59. Some folks here are going to be shocked at how many repubs vote for it

These folks don't necessarily support it and wouldn't have voted for it earlier in the process, but it has widely been reported, including by repubs who were at the repub caucus meeting, that Boehner asked members to vote for it. If he can pull off a "majority of the majority" vote, he begins to rehabilitate his position as speaker and the repubs have something to spin against the "divided party" story (although the hard core tea partiers will, for the most part, vote no).

Just my prediction, but I'm willing to bet that its a lot closer to what happens than the predictions of some DUers that the House will never vote, that there will be some "after midnight" version that is even more favorable to the Democrats that will pass (apparently because Obama will threaten repubs' families with god only knows what -- and I'm not kidding about this being the view of at least one DUer).

[PoliticAverse]

61. Exactly. What it didn't have was a majority of Republican support.

But there was way more than 17 Republicans willing to support it.

[geomon666]

57. Has it been signed yet? n/t

[JoePhilly]

63. Insert PACKMAN death music here.

[William769]

64. Ok