A quick note on Ted Cruz, Nancy Pelosi and Congressional 'suicide missions'

[PBass]

Not to derail the current discussions, but I think it's important for liberals to note what the Right is doing to shoot themselves in the foot, to remember and learn from their mistakes.

I should say that I am a long-time member of DU, even though my post count is low. I joined around 2002 I think?

I also think Nancy Pelosi is the most effective Speaker of the House in modern American history. She was awesome IMO. Folks should understand that a big reason the reason Right Wingers hate her so much was because she was a strong and effective Speaker.

However, as the Dumbya presidency was ending, Pelosi was absolutely BLASTED here by some people, who were OUTRAGED that "she took impeachment off the table" (!!!!!1!!!) However, the bare fact was that there were simply not enough votes in the House to impeach (by a longshot - it's simple math and whip counts), and that impeachment would be viewed by many Americans as an extreme overreach & "playing politics". As well as a failing effort, and a poor use of Congress' time and political capital.

Watching the current debacle, we can get a whiff of how a suicide mission to impeach President Cheney and Vice President Bush would have played out, with all the resulting negative media attention (oh, I think it's coming) and the negative results at the next election (ditto). It would have been a spectacular failure, and had lasting negative repercussions.

Passions run high here (sometimes too high), and while I hated Bush as much as the average DU member, lets always resolve to not be as stupid as the other side is. "Politics is the art of the possible" and we're about to see what happens when people overreach and fail.

[bemildred]

1. Yeah, I tend to let her off the hook for that, for the reason you state.

She is an old school politician too. Obama is a very pragmatic guy too, most of the time.

[russspeakeasy]

2. Well said. You should post more often.

[PBass]

3. Thanks, but it gets too heated for me here...

I check the Greatest page daily, but the discussions get a little too rough for me, and I start throwing punches myself. And I hate doing that, because the majority of us agree on the majority of issues.

The more radical DU members (and kudos to them, seriously) should take care that they never make the same stupid mistakes that the Tea Party makes. Pick your fights wisely, Lefties!

[russspeakeasy]

11. Again, well said.

[DireStrike]

4. We'll see next November.

I suspect we'll see a very modest defeat of the GOP. They'll retain the house barely, and we'll keep the senate. By all rights this kind of overreach should be the end of a political party, forever. But Americans are stupid and the media is half lazy and half paid for.

I'll bet that lying pays off for these folks, in the end. It always has so far.

[PBass]

6. Republicans will probably maintain narrow control of the House in 2014 due to gerrymandering

What I've read is that Dems won't have a great shot at controlling the House until 2020. Republicans will control it by a thread.

The GOOD news is that 10 (!!!) Senate seats are possible pickups for Dems in 2016. Think about that!

It's just what I've read, and hopefully the reality will be even more positive.

One thing I feel pretty sure of - we're not going to see a Republican president again for 20 or 30 years - maybe not ever, with the way the GOP seems determined NOT to learn.

[DireStrike]

8. Wish I was as optimistic as you

We could have 100 senate seats and not accomplish anything without the house. In order to get progressive legislation we apparently need:

-The presidency
-At least 60 seats in the senate and probably more due to blue dogs
-At least 261 seats in the house and probably more due to blue dogs

And the president will probably have to be quite moderate and conciliatory to win, so he will likely compromise with the GOP (which will still by lying 24/7 and will still exist in large numbers) in exchange for zero votes, like Obama did with the ACA. Because we are nice and respectful and don't overreach.

So maybe in 2020 we will have another chance, if we play nice. Until then the GOP will continue to rack up legislative wins through concessions.

I guess threatening to destroy the country does hurt the Republicans in one way: it gives me exactly one single reason to support Democrats.

"One thing I feel pretty sure of - we're not going to see a Republican president again for 20 or 30 years - maybe not ever, with the way the GOP seems determined NOT to learn."

You forget that the American public is yet more determined not to learn anything, ever.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

5. The Clinton impeachment salted the earth for any Bush impeachment. I'm certain of that.

As wrong as they'd be about it, moderates and independents would have simply viewed any effort to impeach George W. Bush as some sort of petty retributive payback for the charade that was the Clinton impeachment.

Thus, as much as I would have loved for it to happen, Bush would never have been impeached.

[flamingdem]

7. Nancy rocks!

And after this DU will grow up. I hope.

[cheyanne]

9. One of the mistakes we don't want to commit is demonizing the opponents.

We must beware of stigmatizing a group of people be calling in question their integrity or sanity or patriotism. These people are driven by the same emotions we all have: love of country, fear and ability to believe what we want is good for all. This doesn't mean that we shouldn't call a lying opportunist a journalist.

Their extremism will die: there is a natural life span to extremist groups. They are in the "ideological purity" phase of eating their own which means that the group will get smaller and less influential as more members are tired of losing all the time.

All we can do is watch them self-destruct, protect our rights and institutions, and be ready to move on. Remember conspiracy theories don't die; they will bloom at the next economic crises. When people are scared and powerless feeling they demonize the other.

[UtahLib]

10. K&R Great post! n/t