Everybody's Talking About This Chinese Editorial Calling For A 'De-Americanized' World

[xchrom]

http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-editorial-calling-for-a-de-americanized-world-2013-10


A corridor is marked closed to foot traffic at the U.S. Capitol, as the current budget fracas and potential government shutdown unfolds, in Washington, September 30, 2013.

***SNIP

The article goes beyond mere slamming DC over fiscal failures, but takes on the entire premise of US global influence:

As U.S. politicians of both political parties are still shuffling back and forth between the White House and the Capitol Hill without striking a viable deal to bring normality to the body politic they brag about, it is perhaps a good time for the befuddled world to start considering building a de-Americanized world.

Emerging from the bloodshed of the Second World War as the world's most powerful nation, the United States has since then been trying to build a global empire by imposing a postwar world order, fueling recovery in Europe, and encouraging regime-change in nations that it deems hardly Washington-friendly.

With its seemingly unrivaled economic and military might, the United States has declared that it has vital national interests to protect in nearly every corner of the globe, and been habituated to meddling in the business of other countries and regions far away from its shores.

Meanwhile, the U.S. government has gone to all lengths to appear before the world as the one that claims the moral high ground, yet covertly doing things that are as audacious as torturing prisoners of war, slaying civilians in drone attacks, and spying on world leaders.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-editorial-calling-for-a-de-americanized-world-2013-10#ixzz2hgoU1MNf

[patricia92243]

1. When China talks now - everybody listens. The way they used to do with us. We are in BIG trouble.

[Control-Z]

2. Normality?? (nt)

[pampango]

3. We are 5% of the world's population. The globe has survived numerous empires

and will survive the American version.

Can everyone adapt to a multi-polar world or does there always have to be one dominant power? I hope the former.

[Scootaloo]

5. The majority of the world doesn't notice us.

Sure, the leaders do. But I struggle to believe that some dude scraping dirt in Uttar Pradesh thinks about the United States for more than a few minutes of his life, if that. And there are significantly more of him than there are national leaders.

What we are is simply the biggest frog in a swamp full of frogs.

[HereSince1628]

7. Impoverished gold miners in SA and diamond miners in Africa wear US sports emblems...

13 miles above the Arctic Circle, while standing in a line to pay for frozen chicken legs (what they called "Bush-legs", after George the First) I got in a conversation with a Karelian about the virtues of consuming McDonald's 1/4 lb cheeseburgers with orange flavored Fanta.

I've never been anywhere that people didn't have an awareness of US and pretty regularly a resentment for our cultures penetration into theirs.

[pocoloco]

14. The sun doesn't set on the American Empire!

[fasttense]

15. Nor did it set on the English Empire !!! n/t

[pampango]

17. Until it did!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

9. The postwar dream was for the United Nations to be the "dominant power".

[pampango]

18. That was the dream of FDR and many others, but national sovereignty has proven stronger than FDR

perhaps imagined.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

20. That was back when countries considered standing armies to be a sign of aggression....

Seems quaint now.

Think about it. The notion of having ZERO armed forces until needed and other countries refusing to deal with you because you have a big scary army and that means you aren't friendly.

[KG]

4. the chinese seem to be more willing to make business deals to get what they need

rather than sending their military to steal it.

[avebury]

6. Agree!

The US Government, 1%ers, and MIC seem to believe that the only way to influence the world is via military might when the Chinese have figured out it is more efficient and cheaper to do it economically. We are stuck in the past, the Chinese think of the future.

[kelliekat44]

8. It'ss the one way they can be sure to line their own pockets and keep the rest of us downtrodden. n

[GeoWilliam750]

13. You might want to tell that to all of their neighbors

China has had - and often continues to have - territorial disputes with Japan, Russia, India, Vietnam, and the Philippines (that I can think of off the top of my head). They have walked in with guns to take Tibet and Xinjiang. They support North Korea. They brutally suppress anyone who gets in their way. Their military has been expanding very rapidly, and they are becoming increasingly belligerent and bellicose to their neighbors - many of whom are America's "allies".

Many in Asia are watching the government shutdown closely, as it will represent a substantial relative rise in China's influence in Asia if the US cannot get its house in order.

[randome]

23. That helps put things into perspective. Don't forget Taiwan, too.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[4dsc]

10. The Chinese government is dirty to the core

From human rights to slave labor to Tibet. I don't care what the dirty Chinese government has to say.

[greiner3]

12. If you edit out the bit about Tibet;

You have a modern take on the US.

Jus' saying.

[tillikum]

27. touche!

[datasuspect]

25. so is the United States government

[fasttense]

11. The problem with De-Americanizing is that China has no where else to sell it's crap

Oh a few other countries buy their crap but the great majority of the overpriced products are sold in the US. Chinese folks can't afford to buy the crap they are forced to make. Most other countries have hidden tariffs that they call VAT that protect their local manufacturing so most countries don't buy as much crap from China at the prices we do.

When our middle class is tapped out and reduced to poverty level incomes and wages, then lets see how well the global economy does. China can not continue to make their crap without an American market to sell it to. China should De-Americanize their export market before they De-Americanize the rest.

[pampango]

22. China exports more to the EU ($360 billion) than to the US ($325 billion).

About 15% of China exports go to the US. 85% go to other countries. That is about the same percentage as that of our exports going to Mexico. I think we could survive without Mexico as a buyer of our exports. China could figure out a way to do the same without us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_China

The VAT is not a hidden tariff. It raises the cost of domestically-produced goods and is applied to imports to equalize the playing field. If a VAT were 20%, a widget manufactured and sold in Germany that would cost $1.00, will cost a German $1.20 due to the VAT. If that same widget were manufactured in China or the US and exported to Germany at a price of $1.00, it will cost a German $1.20 due to the VAT.

The VAT funds Germany's health care system and social safety net. If it applied only to German manufacturers, they would soon go out of business since imports would have be exempt from it and would have a 20% price advantage.

If the VAT were a magic "hidden tariff" with no downside, the US would adopt it, too. Unfortunately, the downside is that consumers pay 20% (or whatever the VAT rate is) more for everything - whether it is produced in the US or imported. We could then use those funds to pay for health care and the safety net, as Europeans do. However, I think republicans have a history of viewing the VAT as a form of national tax which they feel obligated to oppose, especially if the proceeds go to health care and the safety net - two things they are not really big on.

[fasttense]

38. The VAT tax is manipulated to help certain industries

It is very difficult to produce a product in the U.S., pay our taxes, then pay a 17% VAT when shipping to another country. It is basically a tariff. Other countries rebate their VAT when their companies ship to the U.S. – or to any other country.

What you fail to mention is that many, many countries rebate the VAT for their domestic goods.

The only non-VAT countries (other than the U.S.) are failed states and petro states. Just because the US does NOT do it does NOT mean it is a Bad idea to do it.

The EU, you may remember is NOT a single country. It is made up of numerous countries so comparing the US to a group of countries is of little value. With that said, the EU and the US go back and forth on who is China's biggest export market. Note this headline:

"The United States replaced the European Union in 2012 as the No. 1 market for Chinese exports, buying $319.4 billion of goods through November, Beijing said."

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2012/12/27/US-now-largest-buyer-of-Chinese-exports/UPI-52281356587523/#ixzz2huVTPESl

Anyway you are arguing minor issues. China's economy would crash and burn if the US did NOT allow it to import into our markets.

[RC]

16. Unless we can get the likes of the Koch brothers and their tea-party under control, we are

witnessing the sun setting on the experiment called the United States of America. We have been going down hill for almost 70 years now.
Sheep herders and subsistence farmers the world over will be better off without us, US, waging war around them.

[sulphurdunn]

19. I am a US citizen.

The folly that passes for governance, economics and culture in this country is harming me directly, right now. What I need immediately is constitutional governance, a democratic economy and rational culture. I sure as hell don't need that sweat shop called China to imply it possesses some virtue not found here.

[kmlisle]

21. So much for American Exceptionalism!

Things will change and attacking China for what we already do - torture, mass imprisonment, underpaid oppressed workers and the death sentence to name a few, will just make things worse. If we are going to think Multi-polar world and not Empire then we need to think of this new emerging power as an ally not an enemy. It does not mean that either of us is perfect, but it would be better if we could work together on problems instead of compete and finger point over them.

[sulphurdunn]

24. China is ruled by an

organized crime ring called the Communist Party. We are ruled by an organized crime ring called Wall Street. Both sets of criminals are in it for the wealth and the power. They already are allies. The hold hands and sing kumbaya as each contributes its part in the collapse of global civilization and in making the planet uninhabitable.

[kmlisle]

26. China is actually ruled by Neoliberals at the moment

And just put the leader of the old style communist movement in prison for corruption. You are absolutely right that they are our partners in many ways but to demonize them is not a productive way forward. As for Kumbaya I was hoping for a little more sophisticated approach if you can imagine that. But diplomacy starts with establishing relationships that are respectful of your opponent so there is common ground to work from. You don't have to hold hands but you do need to be respectful and realistic about the fact that both our societies have faults that are often very similar and a great deal to gain from a working partnership.

[sulphurdunn]

29. Sophisticated approach?

How sophisticated is your knowledge of history? Diplomacy begins and ends with relationships that serve mutual self-interest. That's realistic and is really all the Chinese require in the way of respect. That's called protocol and is mostly used to show ones power and to discourage knifing one's counter part at state banquets . It would be nice if the "civilized" world worked the way you would like, but it hasn't in ten-thousand years, shows no sign of changing anytime soon, and we don't have ten-thousand more years to hold hands while we figure it out.

[kmlisle]

30. My point was in response to the question of

Multi-polar world versus Empire and the attitudes that go with it. As for my own experience I am educated as a scientist but also served in military intelligence with training by the CIA and spent a year serving in a war zone so I think I have a realistic view of the craft of diplomacy and foreign relations. One of the kids I helped raise is now an envoy to China and he is an amazing young man. He gives me hope for the future but it is tempered with an understanding that most governments serve their self interest in a totally amoral way.

One interesting perspective on human relations can be got from E. O. Wilson's latest book on The Evolution of Human Societies in which he outlines two types of natural selection in humans, one at the individual level addressing things like genetic diseases and one at the group level that addresses behavior and might show us a way forward in the larger world as well as in our particular tribe.

[sulphurdunn]

32. I have been trained

as an historian, fought as an infantry soldier, served in the Peace Corps and otherwise served the interests of the US. I admire Wilson's writings, especially those that study of ants. Humans have evolved over hundreds of millenia to survive in small, gregarious groups of hunter gatherers. Agricultural civilization has changed all of that. It most certainly will have affected biological in ways uncertain. My point was that we evolved in a world of resource scarcity. I believe that has had the most profound effect on human development, is hardwired into our evolution, and that the material abundance of agricultural civilization has not had a great impact upon our behavior. We compete fiercely and kill for what what we already have. We do it out of evolutionary habit. We seem incapable of reaching the enlightenment we comprehend. We are not that far removed from our primate ancestors and are far more destructive.

[kmlisle]

34. I agree with your analysis of the fact that with our environmental changes we have

outstripped our evolved behavior. However the Evolution of Human Societies takes Wilson's work on social insects and looks at humans as social animals through that lens and posits that a second layer of evolution - group evolution -actually selects for altruism in come cases. However the speed with which group evolution occurs because it is also involved with the creation of memes and cultural structures has happened so fast - ie changed the environment through cultural means so fast - that we are destroying the Earth. (obvious as we both say above - just another way to look at it.) The hopeful part of this is that there is also selection at the group level for altruism ie that moral behavior is selected for because we also survive and thrive because of our cultural context and some behaviors sport that and some people are more successful working with a group.

ps - Am studying the history of Science. Can you recommend any particular sources?

[sulphurdunn]

36. These are all good reads

although #6 can become tedious at times.
1. The Ascent of Man by Jacob Bronowski
2. E=Mc2 by David Bodains
3. Issac Newton by James Glecik
4. On Human Nature by Edward O. Wilson
5. The Diversity of Life by Edward O. Wilson
6. Galileo's Daughter by Dava Sobel
7. Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond
8. Dust: A History of the Small and Invisible by Joseph A. Amato
9. A Little History of Science by William F. Bynum
10. Cosmos, Pale Blue Dot and A Vision of the Human Future in Space: All three by Carl Sagan

[louslobbs]

28. #19 and #24 +1 and a big thumbs up. n/t

Lou

[pampango]

33. Seems to be a Democratic POV: "we need to think of this new emerging power as an ally not an enemy."

http://www.pewglobal.org/2012/11/01/american-chinese-publics-increasingly-wary-of-the-other/

Democrats are much more likely to think "it would be better if we could work together on problems instead of compete and finger point over them" than are republicans who want to get tough with them.

Nice posts, kmlisle. And welcome to DU.

[BluegrassStateBlues]

31. Anyone not worried about this should walk away from politics forever.

It's gutwrenching to imagine a world in which America is not on top.

[sulphurdunn]

37. Better the devil you know.

Empires do not go quietly into the dustbin of history.