Half The Vehicles In Driveways Huge Gas Guzzling Polluting Trucks.

[TheMastersNemesis]

On our campaign walks today I noticed that at most homes half the vehicles were big gas guzzling pick up trucks. We are toast when it comes to global warming. So many people are in defiance and are determined to put as much CO2 in the air as possible. And what was noticeable is how many of these trucks were super trucks. I doubt very many were work trucks. They were general transportation trucks.

[JI7]

1. where was this and what kind of area was it ?

at least in california it seems like the SUV thing is not as popular as a few years back. i'm noticing more eco friendly cars these days.

[TheMastersNemesis]

8. IT Was In A Wealthier More Red Area In A NW Suburb Of Denver.

The area we were campaigning has higher level homes probably over $300,000 to $450,000. You see a lot of bigger trucks in Denver. And there are a lot of super large trucks that are 3 feet off the ground. A lot of them are middle and younger white crackers who would not be caught dead with a Dem.

We have a lot of gun nuts out here. They believe they want to have big guns so they will be ready to overthrow the government. That's what they really think. As I said in an earlier threat. The NRA is sponsoring recalls. They won two and three others are supposedly being planned.

The two we lost only about 13% of the registered voters voted for it. The GOP suppressed the vote and sent out the nuts.
Americans must realize that the NRA supports carry any weapon of your choice anywhere you want including churches, bars, public places, government buildings etc.

[JI7]

12. the wealthy areas i see tend to be more eco friendly or smaller sports cars but these are mostly Dem

areas.

seems like wealthy wingnuts tend to like huge vehicles.

[TheMastersNemesis]

16. I Know A Fellow Dems Who Is A Weather Scientist. We Are Toast

He works with weather data at CU. He was telling me that global warming is a total certainty. We have to act now to reduce emissions to keep global warming to a certain level. If we don't it could get too hot to exist.

[PasadenaTrudy]

36. I see

scores of hybrids, Prius mostly, and scores of Range Rovers here in Pasadena. I wish the huge SUV kick would die...

[Ranchemp.]

2. Yeah, so what?

Are you in favor of govt. regs. requiring what type of vehicles people can own?

[JI7]

3. of course, pollution would be far worse without regulations

[Ranchemp.]

7. So, my 2009 Ford F-250 4x4 Diesel truck is acceptable to you

because it meets all the govt standards?

[Coyotl]

6. Yes, of course, and we already have exactly that with MPG laws.

But we need to do more, as the consumers themselves illustrate.

[Ranchemp.]

9. So, let me see if I understand what you're saying,

your in favor of the govt. telling you what vehicles you can or cannot own?

[Coyotl]

13. Obviously, you do not understand.

But, good effort. Keep trying.

[Ranchemp.]

15. Then help me to understand.

[Ron Green]

18. Maybe I can help.

The free market doesn't always work very well to help people do the right thing, especially when they're angry or fearful.

Sometimes education is needed, and sometimes it takes laws and regulations.

[kydo]

33. Then ONLY way to help you understand Ranchemp is first TURN OFF FOX NEWS

and all the other hate programing that passes for the right wing mega noise machine. After you have been in the real world for 90 days then we can talk.

[Orsino]

41. And drop the phony freedumb framing.

2/10

[Mariana]

22. You can own anything you like.

However, the government can, and does, tell you what vehicles you can and cannot drive on the public roads. Here's an example: I've got to take one of my vehicles in for inspection this month. If it fails, I still own it, but I can't drive it until the problem is fixed, because the government said so. It's the law, you see.

For the record, I have a big pickup with a V8 engine. I don't drive it all that much - I bought it new, and now it's 14 years old and has about 76,000 miles on it. If I had to commute any kind of distance, I'd get something more appropriate.

[Fumesucker]

24. The government already does tell us what vehicles we can and cannot drive on the road

There is a long list of regulations a vehicle has to pass in order to be legal on US roads, everything from lighting standards to bumper height to emissions.

Just try to buy one of those ultra high mpg small diesel pickups that are popular in much of the rest of the world for instance.

[oldhippie]

40. Uh, they already do .....

The government prohibits the import or manufacture of vehicles they don't want you to own. You can only buy the ones they approve.

[Comrade Grumpy]

70. Did you get lost?

[Spider Jerusalem]

26. MPG laws need to be scrapped in favour of regulations based on carbon dioxide emissions.

Which is what they already do in Europe.

[Logical]

34. Lol, defensive much? nt

[Chan790]

55. I am, yes.

Not in the form of prohibition...but I think Italy has the right idea by classifying anything weighing more than 1T or having more than 2 axles as a work vehicle subject to additional taxes, which can substantial. We already do this with larger vehicles...I'm proposing we move the bar down.

[leveymg]

4. Defiance is a good word for it. Denial is too. Major components of teajadism.

Did you notice any correlation between vehicle type and politics on your canvass?

[TheMastersNemesis]

11. Yes. That Last Couple My Wife Talked To Commented About The RW Attitudes ----

of their neighbors who have big trucks. This couple has a Prius and another high mileage car. There definitely is an attitude. These jerks drive aggressively, tail gate, pass around you, et al. Complete assholes most of the time.

[Mariana]

23. It doesn't help that RWers always listen to Limbaugh et al.

whenever they're out driving their big-ass trucks. They're angry all the time they're on the road, and they take it out on anyone they perceive as likely to be a liberal.

[NYC_SKP]

5. This happened when we let CAFE standards take a break, in the early nineties.

Tax breaks could be had for buying Hummers. Light trucks and SUVs were exempt from mileage standards.

Station wagons disappeared, and people felt like they had to have a truck to be popular, macho, and safe.

Eventually more and more people driving regular sized reasonable efficient cars gave them up for higher riding heavier trucks.

And here we are.

[oneshooter]

10. I just bought a larger work truck. A F-150 crew cab.

It has a smaller motor than the Ranger I was driving, but gets better mileage. Ain't technology wonderful!

With the crew cab I can pick up my help and save them the gas to get to the jobsite.

[TheMastersNemesis]

14. The Mileage Is Better And Some Are Hybrids.

It just seems as though some trucks are just way over the top. And I rally have a problem with the ones that take 1 1/2 spaces or they stick so far out they almost block the lane.

Thankfully the mileage is much better than it used to be. A lot of them are in the 20+ range now.

[oneshooter]

19. I bought a EcoBoost. 18+ in the city and 23+ on the hiway, depending on the hills. n/c

[Ron Green]

17. I saw the same thing when I was running for office a year ago. There would sometimes be 3 or 4

of these monsters in a driveway (working class neighborhood), and when I knocked on the door there was nobody home!! They were gone in yet another vehicle.

During that campaign I was interviewed by a panel from the Chamber of Commerce. Of course I didn't expect their endorsement, but I wanted to exchange some ideas with them. One of their questions was about the cost of energy, and I immediately began by pointing out that conservation is by far the quickest and best way to bring down prices. I asked them to imagine a big pickup truck available for use throughout a neighborhood, but jointly purchased and maintained, rather than every household having to make huge payments on it. I went on to cite some other examples of cooperative economics, and encouraged them to think about a more sustainable and local economy.

A couple of days later, my campaign manager pulled me aside and said, "Did you tell those people over at the Chamber of Commerce you want to take away their trucks?"

[TreasonousBastard]

21. HA! Around here I have to constantly remind our campaign crew...

that it's not what we think we're saying, but what "they" think they're hearing. People hear what they want to hear.

You've seen it even here on DU, where someone takes a comment the wrong way and the fight starts. Imagine what it's like when you're not on the same side to begin with.

My Chevy Cruze gets 35-40 mpg and I am both jealous of Prius owners who get better and pissed at truck and SUV owners who get half that when they crank up a pickup to pick up a pizza. But, I just don't talk about it. Ever. I'm trying to get votes, and pissing off voters, even inadvertently, doesn't help.

We all have our own set of sacred and inviolable rights and any time you bring up these rights we will automatically be on the defensive and it's shields up-- we hear through our own set of filters.

[Ron Green]

43. Yes, and to be aware of those filters is essential

when talking to voters. But for chrissakes, when we can't expect public policy people and would-be campaign endorsers to understand these concepts without getting their ideological panties in a knot, then we know our system is screwed.

[Blue_In_AK]

20. We have a 2001 Ford Ranger pickup,

our only vehicle, paid for and very well maintained. We drive it about 9,000 miles a year, if that. Not trading it in for a new car payment, sorry.

[TexasProgresive]

30. I have a '94 F150

I use it only on occasions when I am hauling cargo or a trailer. It gets really poor gas mileage but suppose I bought a new pickup that got 5 or so better mpg what is the carbon footprint of that new pickup truck when it comes off the assembly line?

I've never seen figures on that, but I bet that I can drive old Thirsty a few more miles on the amount of carbon a new vehicle created in its production plus what it emits when driven.

[B Calm]

25. I have a 4 wd crew cab with a hybrid V8

[pintobean]

27. 4WD pick-ups in Denver?

Who would have guessed?

I think people buy what they need. We have no way of knowing how those vehicles are used. The fact that they're sitting in driveways on a Sunday afternoon, in the fall, tells us nothing.

[jeff47]

60. Buy what they need among what's available.

For example, I need to haul crap regularly.

My options are 1) A truck, or 2) A combination of vehicle and trailer that costs more and gets worse mileage.

I'm going to need a new one shortly - the old one's dying. I'd like to buy a small one, but the car makers appear to have decided nobody wants small pickups anymore. For example, If you go to Ford's website, they appear to not make the Ranger anymore, only the F-150 and up.

Can't buy a vehicle that isn't being made.

[pipi_k]

64. In driveways and...

in store parking lots.

One day when Mr Pipi was out shopping in the city with our Jeep Grand Cherokee (since gone) a guy came up to him and started ranting about all kinds of shit related to owning a big SUV, blah blah blah.

The only problem was, he assumed that we are city dwellers. We're not. We are rural and have to drive to the city for anything of importance.

I'm just waiting for the day when some fruitcake Uber-Liberal gets pissed off and keys our Hummer H3 or flattens the tires thinking we're city dwellers ruining the world with our selfishness.

I feel safe in the Hummer. Since we don't go anywhere without consolidating trips, it's big enough to hold all the stuff we pick up while we're out. And average driving with it is about 25 miles per week, if that.

Older Dodge Ram 2500 is almost exclusively a plow truck except for weekly/bi-weekly trips to the dump. Ten miles per week.

People don't even stop to think that maybe the big-ass vehicle in the driveway or parking lot might not be what they think it is.

[Tikki]

28. Where I live...a commuter town outside of L A...about half of the cars in driveways...

are HYBRIDS.

Must be where you live as a factor.


Tikki

[quaker bill]

29. When gas goes back above $5.00

you will be able to pick one up very cheap.

[TheMastersNemesis]

31. The One Positive Thing Is These Trucks Are Made In Us.

Ultimately these trucks are ok and I am sure they could be brought up to 30MPH. We have just about doubled the mileage at this point. My hybrid electric is fast enough and I am sure that these trucks could be made to include a mode that would give them the torque power they need which is only occasionally.

[Kaleva]

32. I have a scooter and that's all I have.

[gollygee]

35. We have a 4WD pick-up

We don't use it all the time but there are times where we need a pickup truck and times where we need 4WD here in Michigan, and so we have that.

[lumberjack_jeff]

37. The kinds of cars that are parked in the driveways while the owners are away at work...

... is immaterial to your issue. Unlike the car you drove to get to the Denver campaign walkabout, the trucks in the driveways aren't contributing CO2 at all.

While I'm driving to work in my Subaru Loyale, my "gas guzzling 4x4 v8 pickup" is sitting idle in my driveway too, waiting for people like you to ask me to help them move.

I'm no more concerned with your judgment of me based on the car in my driveway than I am someone's judgment of me based on the clothes that hang in my closet.

But I think I'll drive the truck to work today, because the battery goes dead if I don't drive it periodically.

[FarCenter]

38. On the bright side, both gasoline consumption and miles driven/year are going down.

As soon as the economy gets better, the price of crude oil goes up and consumption goes down.

China just passed the US as the biggest importer of crude. Global competition will keep prices high and consumption down.

[Brickbat]

39. Huh. If the driveways were full of imports, I'd figure the residents were "determined" to undermine

domestic manufacturing and union wages.

[NuclearDem]

42. People in Colorado driving 4x4s?

Last edited Mon Oct 14, 2013, 12:33 PM - Edit history (1)

It might be that some of them have to deal with brutal snowstorms and a lack of traction during the winter. Or shit, some might work contracting or construction jobs and need it for that. Generalizations and assuming everyone is just stupid without understanding their situations really makes the world suck and harms progressivism more than it helps.

I used to own a Ram for almost that very reason. Not everyone who drives a truck does so because they hate the environment.

[KurtNYC]

44. If you are going to have extra vehicles, why not have one for the snow?

It isn't just 4x4s that pump out the carbon. It is ALL passenger vehicles, hybrids and electric cars (which are actually coal powered).

The biggest contributor to global warming is agriculture so all in all we have a lot of changes to make if we want to have any hope of reversing the increase in temps and hurricanes and the radicalization of the jet stream.

[TheMastersNemesis]

49. The Problem Is Resistance To Doing Anything About Global Warming Which Is What It Really Is.

"Climate change" is misleading and a lie really. Global warming models include cold and snow. Just because we have cold snaps and snow events does not mean there is no warming. It is the cumulative effect of warming over time. The coldest cold events are less frigid over time and ice sheets still melt more in warm periods. Ice still developes but it is thinner and slightly less in area until it ceases to form or disappears.

The climate could shift into warm with much less cooling and it can be dramatic. Climatologists do have ancient history and ice corp samples that indicate quick drastic shifts.

Someone I know who is a climate researcher has told me that global warming is here and it is only a matter of how dramatic it will be. If we do not start some serious work on this issue we could be toast. A certain level of temp rise if already built in.

Trucks to me reveal an attitude about this problem and fewer trucks and vehicle are not the solution. A broad based move to energy efficiency, renewable energy and conservation are the better solutions.

[KurtNYC]

54. I agee. Just pointing out that the choice between a commuter car at 25MPG

that gets used for 120 miles a day versus a 4x4 that gets 16MPG and gets used twice a month shows how bad our choices are.

We are, as consumers of vehicles, somewhat powerless to make real change because the range of choices is narrow and ALL are carbon-adding. Better options would be walk-able cities, work-from-home, bicycles and telecommuting.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

68. "Resistance To Doing Anything About Global Warming Which Is What It Really Is"

Yeah, sure, that's exactly what they were thinking when they spent ten to twenty thousand dollars.

You seriously, genuinely need to get help.

[JCMach1]

45. Let's just get the car companies turning those into 4x4 electric trucks...

It's a sad fact, but many of those trucks get nearly the same mileage as your larger cars (or better sometimes)...

[Throd]

46. What about Porsches, Corvettes, and Mustangs?

Do we get to judge people who own those too?

[JCMach1]

47. +1

Let's work on turning them all hybrid and electric...

How about taking all the oil company welfare and turning it into tax credits for those who want electric and hybrid vehicles... cut the prices by 1/4 or 1/3 and see how more quickly they would sell.

[snooper2]

48. My friend has a jacked up F250 on 33's that gets 22 MPG on the highway

My Dakota is lucky to get 18MPG


You know much about automobiles?

[TheMastersNemesis]

50. I Have An Old Van That Gets Less Sadly.

There probably is not that a person can do except around the edges that could produce a mile or two in MPG. Basic engineering of a vehicle pretty much determined how much mileage it will get.

[Peregrine Took]

51. Hate, loathe and despise SUV's especially in city traffic

If you are in a normal sized sedan you can't see around them or through their windows to see what's ahead and just forget trying to turn left behind one, also, turning left as you can't even get a peek at the oncoming traffic.

Polluting monster fuglies.

In my area the hot one is the BMW great big thing (has to be black or silver) which goes from the high rise garage to Whole Foods and back.

[penultimate]

52. I'd need more information before I could judge the owners...

I've been noticing some newer trucks get better gas mileage than my small car. Also, some people have legit needs for a larger truck. I don't put pickup owners in the same category as Hummers, because there is a practical usage for pickups.

[TheMastersNemesis]

53. Agreed.

Trucks have improved in gas mileage a lot compared to what they used to be.

[JustAnotherGen]

56. General Transportation Trucks

My husband owns and drives a 2001 Yukon . . . General Transporation. But he hauls copper, iron, steel, etc. etc. in it. It's his livelihood- and for a small load - it makes no sense to get whacked with the insane delivery charge of a CDL driven truck - when he can run and get it himself.

[TheMastersNemesis]

59. People In Certain Occupations And People With Certain Needs Need Heavy Duty Trucks.

That fact is understandable. Getting them to the highest gas mileage possible should be our goal.

[JustAnotherGen]

62. We should be moving to natural gas in vehicles

My husband also has a 1960 Volvo sports car that we get around in Italy in. The mileage on that is ridiculous!

[jeff47]

57. So you're mad that people drive the least expensive and best milage 4wd vehicles in Denver.

Let's look at the options:

1) SUV - worse milage, costs more.
2) Small car - no 4WD, which can be quite an issue in Denver. Especially since they don't do the "salt the hell out of the roads" stupidity they do in the Northeast.
3) 4WD truck.

Yeah, these people are terrible for choosing option 3.

[madokie]

58. We own a big ass truck even though it doesn't get driven much

maybe that is the case with many of these.
Sometimes we need a big ass truck and for those times we use ours. otherwise we drive a 30 + mpg 2014 ford focus hatchback

[Throd]

65. Same here, '91 Ford F250 with a hairy V-8. I use it once a month.

[madokie]

69. But when you need it you need it

Nothing takes the place of a big truck when needed.
I realize there are way too many being used as daily drivers where there is no need but some of us have to have one from time to time.

[Glassunion]

61. You observation is spot on for your area.

I'm no fan of folks buying more vehicle than they need. However, it is not up to me or you as a matter of fact, in getting to decide what folks can buy.

In CO, according to NADA data more than 1/2 of all vehicles sold in your state are light trucks and SUVs. But there are a lot of factors to keep in mind.
#1. As you know it snows in CO. Quite a bit in my opinion. A 4WD/AWD vehicle is the best for those driving conditions.
#2. Colorado has a high percent of folks employed in in industries that may require a heavier duty vehicle compared to a passenger car. (BLS data)
#3. Colorado has on average (when compared to the rest of the US) a higher wage for these occupations. (BLS data)

From the BLS data, I figure that there are about 400,000 folks employed in fields where a truck or SUV may be the prudent choice when selecting a vehicle. However there are many other occupations where a vehicle that is designed for driving in adverse conditions may also be the prudent choice. I'd rather have my Emergency Room doctor show up to work on time in their Light Duty pickup truck, than stuck in the snow in their passenger vehicle.

Also, not all job descriptions can accurately tell us if a heavier duty vehicle would be a requirement of the job. I'm a nerd. I have a nerd job. I work with computers for a living in the IT field. Most would look at my job description and state that I do not need a truck. However, in fact I do. My job takes me to new construction sites on a regular basis. I would be unable to enter the majority of these sites with a passenger vehicle. Plus with all of the equipment that I am required to bring, there would not be enough room for my tools and supplies.

[eilen]

63. I notice a lot of them in the parking garage at my hospital

They always seem to park in the middle where the compact cars are supposed to be-- so they jut out and then tend to take up more spots because the spots are smaller so another car cannot fit between them (and allow room for the driver to get out). These are alway backer-inners too so they park crooked as well. I say, if you can't back out well enough, you shouldn't park there.

[Orrex]

66. Obviously we need more driveways.

QED

[L0oniX]

67. I think a lot of people here buy them for protection.

He who lives wins. On the other hand I see a lot of truck bullies too. It gets more intimidating the smaller your vehicle is.