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trumad

(41,692 posts)
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 06:55 PM Oct 2013

If you hit a child with an object---like say a wooden spoon....

you are a sick fucking coward. I can't put it any other way. You hit an animal like maybe your dog, again, you're nothing more than a coward.

At least the animal might bite you back--- but that would not be likely because animals are very devoted to their masters and wouldn't do that.

You are hurting a living being with that living being not having any defense against being hurt.

The evidence is overwhelming that corporal punishment of this type does not work---overwhelming. But yet there are some that still think it's the right thing to do and still do it.

This tells me that people who do this are nothing more than sick assholes who get off on hurting defenseless children and animals.

nuff said!

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If you hit a child with an object---like say a wooden spoon.... (Original Post) trumad Oct 2013 OP
yes wingzeroday Oct 2013 #1
I agree... awoke_in_2003 Oct 2013 #2
Horrible thread with a bunch TBF Oct 2013 #4
I hope wingzeroday Oct 2013 #5
Ok, thanks... awoke_in_2003 Oct 2013 #7
Belts too... Cooley Hurd Oct 2013 #3
THANK YOU, TRUMAD! "Defenseless children and animals" and Cha Oct 2013 #6
Even worse, anyone with a college degree has studied basic psychology... Walk away Oct 2013 #8
Which describes perhaps hundreds of thousands of teachers who will lay a stick on jtuck004 Oct 2013 #16
I disagree... cynatnite Oct 2013 #9
Many people in the south believe "spare the rod, spoil the child" Samantha Oct 2013 #11
That would explain why they lack empathy and become republicans. Not all mind you. laundry_queen Oct 2013 #39
OK, I'll admit I'm wierd. I have a long memory. I was spanked, but I wouldn't call it abused... rwsanders Oct 2013 #10
Most of the time, corporal punishment is more about the parent being pissed off than raccoon Oct 2013 #12
Exactly. And pissed off parents Control-Z Oct 2013 #41
totally agree sad-cafe Oct 2013 #13
Yay-uh! Iggo Oct 2013 #14
If corporal punishment worked, there would be vanlassie Oct 2013 #15
I don't disagree with your characterization, trumad, just wondering what to do with the parents of msanthrope Oct 2013 #17
I have no idea... honestly. trumad Oct 2013 #20
Have you ever used corporal punishment on your children, trumad? I would be curious to know the madinmaryland Oct 2013 #18
Fuck no.... never. trumad Oct 2013 #19
Ok. Even though this is an anonymous message board, I will believe you... madinmaryland Oct 2013 #21
was that image of one that hits my kids? trumad Oct 2013 #22
Yes. And the adults who sit in offices and press buttons... egduj Oct 2013 #23
You may think of them as heroes - TBF Oct 2013 #27
Nine chances out of ten those that hit their child zeemike Oct 2013 #24
I dunno what set this off, but I'm reccing and kicking it anyway. JoeyT Oct 2013 #25
I was spanked as a child LostOne4Ever Oct 2013 #26
spanked with a hand or wooden spoon? quite a bit of difference IMO grantcart Oct 2013 #46
ouch porkified Oct 2013 #28
We dont spank our kids. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #29
Why not corked baseball bats? longship Oct 2013 #30
I think there's a thread about this somewhere... ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #31
Yes, that is what started this - TBF Oct 2013 #34
Yes. I know. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #35
I see -- TBF Oct 2013 #36
Trash the thread is your annoyed trumad Oct 2013 #40
I had to leave that thread Control-Z Oct 2013 #43
I know - TBF Oct 2013 #44
Those that say, "All they understand is violence" will accept nothing else but violence. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #32
K&R NealK Oct 2013 #33
How was dinner, trumad? flvegan Oct 2013 #37
And it doesn't work. bravenak Oct 2013 #38
What about republicans? Their mentally ability is that of a 2yr old can we hit them with kydo Oct 2013 #42
I found your title very funny. grantcart Oct 2013 #45

TBF

(32,098 posts)
4. Horrible thread with a bunch
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 07:38 PM
Oct 2013

of assorted self-described child abusers spouting off about the merits of violence against children. It was repulsive - you really don't want to read it.

wingzeroday

(189 posts)
5. I hope
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 07:47 PM
Oct 2013

I was hoping that they were just trying to be annoying trolls but sadly violence against children is something that people from all walks of life and political backgrounds engage in and justify.

 

Cooley Hurd

(26,877 posts)
3. Belts too...
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 07:16 PM
Oct 2013

Dad was a pig, er, "police officer" and, after his death, my mother used his pig, er "police" belt on me, bullets and all.

Cha

(297,692 posts)
6. THANK YOU, TRUMAD! "Defenseless children and animals" and
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 07:51 PM
Oct 2013
old Folks and anybody who might need a helping hand!

Walk away

(9,494 posts)
8. Even worse, anyone with a college degree has studied basic psychology...
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 07:52 PM
Oct 2013

and they know that what they are doing is simply violence against a helpless child or animal. There is no useful training involved and they may be doing irreparable damage to the little one and certainly their relationship.
The saddest are the recent posts extolling the virtues of being switched by their parents and passing the behavior down to their own children with pride.
These folk mistakenly believe we criticize them because we are weak or too PC. They don't even understand they are part of a cycle of abuse. Very sad.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
16. Which describes perhaps hundreds of thousands of teachers who will lay a stick on
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 08:36 PM
Oct 2013

a kid in a heartbeat.

The ones who should know better, who study the why and the outcome, and still persist in teaching that behavior to their own and other kids...

cynatnite

(31,011 posts)
9. I disagree...
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 07:59 PM
Oct 2013

The problem is that too many in society truly believe (whether it was how they were raised, religious teaching or both) that this is acceptable punishment in raising children. In their minds it's how children should be raised.

I don't think it makes them cowardly fucks who get off on hurting children. Not at all. For most parents who choose spanking whether it's with their hand, belt or wooden spoon...it's an acceptable form of discipline.

They are only one thing IMO....wrong.

I was disciplined in such a way growing up and your description is NOT the family I love.

They were wrong, but they are not bad people.

Having said that...my husband and I made the choice not to use corporal punishment to raise our children. We felt that it would send the wrong message. This was by our choice and we do not look down on parents who choose to discipline their children differently.

Samantha

(9,314 posts)
11. Many people in the south believe "spare the rod, spoil the child"
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 08:17 PM
Oct 2013

I heard this many times (my family is from Tennessee). I was only spanked once with a belt but I still remember it vividly. My father was a good man and thought he was doing the right thing. But I too do not believe in corporate punishment. And I especially do not believe in school officials or anyone else being authorized to administer that. My daughter is grown now, but if I had a child who attended a school where that was allowed, I would take that child out of that school pronto.

Sam

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
39. That would explain why they lack empathy and become republicans. Not all mind you.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 12:30 AM
Oct 2013

But children who are spanked have less empathy and so do republicans. Maybe it's causal.

rwsanders

(2,606 posts)
10. OK, I'll admit I'm wierd. I have a long memory. I was spanked, but I wouldn't call it abused...
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 08:16 PM
Oct 2013

as a child. But even my teenage mind realized something:
The reason my sisters and I fought so much (physically) as children was that spanking, even if it is minor, teaches that violence is a way to get another person to conform to your will.
I swore I'd never forget that.

raccoon

(31,126 posts)
12. Most of the time, corporal punishment is more about the parent being pissed off than
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 08:24 PM
Oct 2013

about anything the child did.



Control-Z

(15,682 posts)
41. Exactly. And pissed off parents
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:37 PM
Oct 2013

who hit their child(ren) with belts and spoons often get more pissed off over time and more violent.

In the last days before I was removed from my home as a child, my father held my head on the floor and hammered it over and over with a piece of firewood.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
17. I don't disagree with your characterization, trumad, just wondering what to do with the parents of
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 08:43 PM
Oct 2013

the kid. I agree with the remand, if not with their actions.

 

trumad

(41,692 posts)
20. I have no idea... honestly.
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 09:13 PM
Oct 2013

Whacky ass country has states that sanction it. Schools that allow it. Douchebags on DU that advocate it.

So...I have no idea.

madinmaryland

(64,933 posts)
18. Have you ever used corporal punishment on your children, trumad? I would be curious to know the
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 09:07 PM
Oct 2013

answer.

I have used corporal cuddling with our kittens...



madinmaryland

(64,933 posts)
21. Ok. Even though this is an anonymous message board, I will believe you...
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 09:13 PM
Oct 2013

Though that doesn't quite jibe with the image you gave of yourself a few years ago here on DU.

egduj

(805 posts)
23. Yes. And the adults who sit in offices and press buttons...
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 09:20 PM
Oct 2013

that launch drones a thousand miles away that kill defenseless children - we call them heroes.

TBF

(32,098 posts)
27. You may think of them as heroes -
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 09:47 PM
Oct 2013

I sure don't. I may be a "bleeding heart" but I believe all of this starts at home.

What if everyone had the rule "no hitting"? In every home?

It wouldn't immediately stop all the violence (especially given the history in this country), but over time I could see folks behaving differently towards each other and the rest of the world.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
24. Nine chances out of ten those that hit their child
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 09:22 PM
Oct 2013

Were hit when they were children.
I can't tell you how many times I have heard someone say. well I was spanked when I was a child and it did not hurt me...and I deserved it.
Violence begets violence...and if it is continued it becomes normal in their minds.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
25. I dunno what set this off, but I'm reccing and kicking it anyway.
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 09:24 PM
Oct 2013

I'm afraid if I go looking for whatever set this off, I might earn myself a few hides before the night is over.

I always wonder how far people that advocate enforcing compliance in the defenseless through pain and violence are willing to go and if they realize how arbitrary the boundaries they set are.

LostOne4Ever

(9,290 posts)
26. I was spanked as a child
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 09:25 PM
Oct 2013

And I do not view what was done to me as abuse. For it to be abuse it would have to be done for violence sake or a wreckless disregard for my welfare. THat was not the case.

They were using what they taught and what they thought was the best way to raise a child, and it was done for my overall well being. They truly believed by offering corporal punishment they where discouraging bad behavior and nothing they did left any lasting harm.

What was done, and sadly what is done by many others who don't know the actual statistics, was done for good reasons. Much like a white lie to get a child to take their medicine it is viewed as a necessary evil for a greater good.

That said, I see myself as a person of science. And as you said, the OVERWHELMING evidence shows that spanking only teaches kids to use violence to get what they want. Even B. F. Skinner was not a fan of operant conditioning. He felt it better to remove the stimuli that produces the bad behavior. Knowing this, when/if I have children I plan to go out of my way NOT to spank them.

Further, because I know that it is not effective if I did spank any future children of mine it would be abuse. Why would someone hurt a child when you know it won't be effective? Hurting a child for no good reason is abuse and it is completely different from hurting a child for their overall benefit. My parents did not have that information, and were raised in that manner. They have an excuse. I would not have such an excuse because I know better.

Many of the people who continue to spank are like my parents. They simply don't know better. They truly believe that the generations of children raised that way prove spanking to be effective. They see the research attesting otherwise (if they know about it in the first place...many think science actually supports spanking) as HAVING TO BE flawed in some manner because the way they were raised has to be right.

In their minds, there is no way their loving mothers, fathers, and grandparents could possibly be wrong. It is a congative dissonance. Their parents weren't wrong, pyschology has to be wrong. "Freud was wrong also", "physchology isn't a real science anyways", "psychology constantly changes its mind on these things", "their methodology must be wrong", "the bible says not to spare the rod," etc. These are the rationalizations going through their minds and the thing we must educate them on.

We must show that just because Frued was wrong doesn't mean Skinner and Pavlov are wrong, that pyschology really is a real science, that pyschology has been very consistant on this, that the methodology has been very stringent, and that not everyone interprets the bible that way (not to mention that the bible is wrong or inconsistant on many many things), and simply prove to them that its bad for children.

Calling them sick cowards is not going to change their minds. It is going to make them defensive and more insistant on spanking being good.

 

porkified

(24 posts)
28. ouch
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 09:50 PM
Oct 2013

My dad was a hard working polish young father that had no role model growing up. We had an incident when I was 5 yrs old that could have changed both our lives by a couple of inches, but we were lucky. I have 4 kids that I am so thankful for, and thank my lucky STARRS they have grown into great people. I am not making excuses for asswholes but maybe trying to vent a little bit.

longship

(40,416 posts)
30. Why not corked baseball bats?
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 09:57 PM
Oct 2013

Or, aluminum ones where one can get some real velocity?

Why stop at spoons?

I'm with Neo. There is no spoon.

Corporal punishment is evil child abuse.

ScreamingMeemie

(68,918 posts)
35. Yes. I know.
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 10:30 PM
Oct 2013

However, when the idiotic posts of a couple of jerks spill over into other, new threads... I get a little irritated. Points were being made in that other thread, and the majority of posters (especially long time posters) agree with trumad. This is the second such post, dragging the flamewar into another "new!" post. So I got annoyed. It happens.

Control-Z

(15,682 posts)
43. I had to leave that thread
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:45 PM
Oct 2013

after reading just a few responses. It triggered the worst memories and feelings for me.

flvegan

(64,416 posts)
37. How was dinner, trumad?
Sat Oct 12, 2013, 10:36 PM
Oct 2013

Or lunch, breakfast or otherwise? Your sound reasoning has me wondering about your newfound veganism...

kydo

(2,679 posts)
42. What about republicans? Their mentally ability is that of a 2yr old can we hit them with
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:42 PM
Oct 2013

wooden spoons and various other objects, like this sledge hammer, or brick walls?

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
45. I found your title very funny.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:55 PM
Oct 2013

How did you arbitrarily settle on a wooden spoon.

If you hit a child with an object---like say a 2" by 4", yep still funny.

As someone who was on the receiving end of many a well delivered whacks with a spoon I will add that they are probably counter productive.

I learned how to take it and then turn around and say "it didn't hurt" no matter how hard it was delivered.

And when I got the "you will thank me when you are older" benediction I promised myself I never would, and I kept that promise.

I am 100% sure that if my parents would have tried to engage me intellectually it would have solved any problem.

One thing about hitting wooden spoons, it helps make great parents. None of my brothers ever used anything like that and we all have terrific children.

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