General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf you hit a child with an object---like say a wooden spoon....
you are a sick fucking coward. I can't put it any other way. You hit an animal like maybe your dog, again, you're nothing more than a coward.
At least the animal might bite you back--- but that would not be likely because animals are very devoted to their masters and wouldn't do that.
You are hurting a living being with that living being not having any defense against being hurt.
The evidence is overwhelming that corporal punishment of this type does not work---overwhelming. But yet there are some that still think it's the right thing to do and still do it.
This tells me that people who do this are nothing more than sick assholes who get off on hurting defenseless children and animals.
nuff said!
I stopped reading that thread because it was pissing me off.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)What brought this on?
TBF
(32,098 posts)of assorted self-described child abusers spouting off about the merits of violence against children. It was repulsive - you really don't want to read it.
I was hoping that they were just trying to be annoying trolls but sadly violence against children is something that people from all walks of life and political backgrounds engage in and justify.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)I need to keep the BP down
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)Dad was a pig, er, "police officer" and, after his death, my mother used his pig, er "police" belt on me, bullets and all.
Cha
(297,692 posts)Walk away
(9,494 posts)and they know that what they are doing is simply violence against a helpless child or animal. There is no useful training involved and they may be doing irreparable damage to the little one and certainly their relationship.
The saddest are the recent posts extolling the virtues of being switched by their parents and passing the behavior down to their own children with pride.
These folk mistakenly believe we criticize them because we are weak or too PC. They don't even understand they are part of a cycle of abuse. Very sad.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)a kid in a heartbeat.
The ones who should know better, who study the why and the outcome, and still persist in teaching that behavior to their own and other kids...
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)The problem is that too many in society truly believe (whether it was how they were raised, religious teaching or both) that this is acceptable punishment in raising children. In their minds it's how children should be raised.
I don't think it makes them cowardly fucks who get off on hurting children. Not at all. For most parents who choose spanking whether it's with their hand, belt or wooden spoon...it's an acceptable form of discipline.
They are only one thing IMO....wrong.
I was disciplined in such a way growing up and your description is NOT the family I love.
They were wrong, but they are not bad people.
Having said that...my husband and I made the choice not to use corporal punishment to raise our children. We felt that it would send the wrong message. This was by our choice and we do not look down on parents who choose to discipline their children differently.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)I heard this many times (my family is from Tennessee). I was only spanked once with a belt but I still remember it vividly. My father was a good man and thought he was doing the right thing. But I too do not believe in corporate punishment. And I especially do not believe in school officials or anyone else being authorized to administer that. My daughter is grown now, but if I had a child who attended a school where that was allowed, I would take that child out of that school pronto.
Sam
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)But children who are spanked have less empathy and so do republicans. Maybe it's causal.
rwsanders
(2,606 posts)as a child. But even my teenage mind realized something:
The reason my sisters and I fought so much (physically) as children was that spanking, even if it is minor, teaches that violence is a way to get another person to conform to your will.
I swore I'd never forget that.
raccoon
(31,126 posts)about anything the child did.
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)who hit their child(ren) with belts and spoons often get more pissed off over time and more violent.
In the last days before I was removed from my home as a child, my father held my head on the floor and hammered it over and over with a piece of firewood.
sad-cafe
(1,277 posts)nuff said!
vanlassie
(5,689 posts)a whole lot fewer people in prisons.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)the kid. I agree with the remand, if not with their actions.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Whacky ass country has states that sanction it. Schools that allow it. Douchebags on DU that advocate it.
So...I have no idea.
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)answer.
I have used corporal cuddling with our kittens...
trumad
(41,692 posts)I can't imagine ever hitting my kids. Ever!
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)Though that doesn't quite jibe with the image you gave of yourself a few years ago here on DU.
trumad
(41,692 posts)?
egduj
(805 posts)that launch drones a thousand miles away that kill defenseless children - we call them heroes.
TBF
(32,098 posts)I sure don't. I may be a "bleeding heart" but I believe all of this starts at home.
What if everyone had the rule "no hitting"? In every home?
It wouldn't immediately stop all the violence (especially given the history in this country), but over time I could see folks behaving differently towards each other and the rest of the world.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)Were hit when they were children.
I can't tell you how many times I have heard someone say. well I was spanked when I was a child and it did not hurt me...and I deserved it.
Violence begets violence...and if it is continued it becomes normal in their minds.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)I'm afraid if I go looking for whatever set this off, I might earn myself a few hides before the night is over.
I always wonder how far people that advocate enforcing compliance in the defenseless through pain and violence are willing to go and if they realize how arbitrary the boundaries they set are.
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)And I do not view what was done to me as abuse. For it to be abuse it would have to be done for violence sake or a wreckless disregard for my welfare. THat was not the case.
They were using what they taught and what they thought was the best way to raise a child, and it was done for my overall well being. They truly believed by offering corporal punishment they where discouraging bad behavior and nothing they did left any lasting harm.
What was done, and sadly what is done by many others who don't know the actual statistics, was done for good reasons. Much like a white lie to get a child to take their medicine it is viewed as a necessary evil for a greater good.
That said, I see myself as a person of science. And as you said, the OVERWHELMING evidence shows that spanking only teaches kids to use violence to get what they want. Even B. F. Skinner was not a fan of operant conditioning. He felt it better to remove the stimuli that produces the bad behavior. Knowing this, when/if I have children I plan to go out of my way NOT to spank them.
Further, because I know that it is not effective if I did spank any future children of mine it would be abuse. Why would someone hurt a child when you know it won't be effective? Hurting a child for no good reason is abuse and it is completely different from hurting a child for their overall benefit. My parents did not have that information, and were raised in that manner. They have an excuse. I would not have such an excuse because I know better.
Many of the people who continue to spank are like my parents. They simply don't know better. They truly believe that the generations of children raised that way prove spanking to be effective. They see the research attesting otherwise (if they know about it in the first place...many think science actually supports spanking) as HAVING TO BE flawed in some manner because the way they were raised has to be right.
In their minds, there is no way their loving mothers, fathers, and grandparents could possibly be wrong. It is a congative dissonance. Their parents weren't wrong, pyschology has to be wrong. "Freud was wrong also", "physchology isn't a real science anyways", "psychology constantly changes its mind on these things", "their methodology must be wrong", "the bible says not to spare the rod," etc. These are the rationalizations going through their minds and the thing we must educate them on.
We must show that just because Frued was wrong doesn't mean Skinner and Pavlov are wrong, that pyschology really is a real science, that pyschology has been very consistant on this, that the methodology has been very stringent, and that not everyone interprets the bible that way (not to mention that the bible is wrong or inconsistant on many many things), and simply prove to them that its bad for children.
Calling them sick cowards is not going to change their minds. It is going to make them defensive and more insistant on spanking being good.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)My dad was a hard working polish young father that had no role model growing up. We had an incident when I was 5 yrs old that could have changed both our lives by a couple of inches, but we were lucky. I have 4 kids that I am so thankful for, and thank my lucky STARRS they have grown into great people. I am not making excuses for asswholes but maybe trying to vent a little bit.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I think it's bad parenting, at best.
longship
(40,416 posts)Or, aluminum ones where one can get some real velocity?
Why stop at spoons?
I'm with Neo. There is no spoon.
Corporal punishment is evil child abuse.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)TBF
(32,098 posts)frankly this one is much easier to deal with than the other one.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)However, when the idiotic posts of a couple of jerks spill over into other, new threads... I get a little irritated. Points were being made in that other thread, and the majority of posters (especially long time posters) agree with trumad. This is the second such post, dragging the flamewar into another "new!" post. So I got annoyed. It happens.
TBF
(32,098 posts)understandable.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Hell I'm annoyed your annoyed.
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)after reading just a few responses. It triggered the worst memories and feelings for me.
it does for many.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)I'm against corporal punishment, it's totally unacceptable.
flvegan
(64,416 posts)Or lunch, breakfast or otherwise? Your sound reasoning has me wondering about your newfound veganism...
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Really doesn't.
kydo
(2,679 posts)wooden spoons and various other objects, like this sledge hammer, or brick walls?
grantcart
(53,061 posts)How did you arbitrarily settle on a wooden spoon.
If you hit a child with an object---like say a 2" by 4", yep still funny.
As someone who was on the receiving end of many a well delivered whacks with a spoon I will add that they are probably counter productive.
I learned how to take it and then turn around and say "it didn't hurt" no matter how hard it was delivered.
And when I got the "you will thank me when you are older" benediction I promised myself I never would, and I kept that promise.
I am 100% sure that if my parents would have tried to engage me intellectually it would have solved any problem.
One thing about hitting wooden spoons, it helps make great parents. None of my brothers ever used anything like that and we all have terrific children.