How will they verify your smoking status?

[B2G]

Blood tests? Because the rates are hugely different.

[jberryhill]

1. I uploaded a picture, and they said I was definitely smokin'

Your mileage may vary.

[Fumesucker]

3. If you're smokin' you're doing it too fast

Just sayin'.

[B2G]

4. Lol. It's actually a serious question though.

The rates ARE hugely different. If they won't verify somehow, why quote different rates?

Asking because I quit 3 months ago but smoke e-cigs, so nicotine would show up, but none of the other crap.

[bobclark86]

9. They'll ask you.

"Do you smoke?"

"Umm, no?"

"We'll try this again: Under penalty of perjury, do you smoke?"

"Yeah..."

That's how it goes.

[B2G]

12. Cool. That's what I was hoping. nt

[jberryhill]

101. You were hoping to commit a felony?

18 USC 1001

[B2G]

126. E-cigarettes aren't tobacco.

[jberryhill]

128. That's not the issue

"America's Health Insurance Plans, which represents most health insurance companies, proposes a two-part question: "Have you used tobacco in the last twelve months?" and "Are you currently using tobacco products?""

This person said they quit "three months ago".

That might not be long enough to not qualify as a smoker.

Do you think you can "quit" on Monday and then say you are not a smoker, for the purpose of insurance, on Tuesday?

Or how about this - "I'm not a smoker. I quit an hour ago." Does that, in your mind, qualify?

[jberryhill]

16. You might want to look into how they define it

As I recall, the last time I applied for health insurance, it was something like "regular use of tobacco products within the last 12 months" or something like that, with an accompanying definition of "regular use". Don't rely on that, though, as I'm sure there is a more precise definition.

It's not really a matter of "detecting it" so much as you getting hit at some point down the road with having made a fraudulent statement in the application.

I'm at about 4 weeks on my second run on e-cigs (went for about a year a while back), but wouldn't consider applying as a "non-smoker" on that basis.

It was actually the anti-e-cig threads here at DU that inspired me to switch back to them again, lol.

[B2G]

21. Good for you!

It's tough, that's for sure. But e-cigs have helped me to succeed where gum and the patch have failed for years.

Congrats!

[SomethingFishy]

27. I'm on my first round of e-cigs...

Bout 3 weeks now... quitting is a pain in the ass...

[a kennedy]

114. quitting was the hardest thing I've ever done.

but those physco patches worked wonders for me......just calmed me down, and helped me quit. May 2nd 2006 was the last day I had a cigarette.

[ThomThom]

122. I agree it was the hardest thing I ever did

the best thing I did was not hang with people that smoke
I moved 1000 miles away and never looked back
I am so glad I quit, my wife also quit.

[a kennedy]

127. good for you and your wife.....and I can't imagine the $$$ we've saved.

Should have, like some have done, put all the money saved on smokes in a jar and by now I'd be part of the 1%ers. and that's a joke ok?

[ejpoeta]

151. since my husband quit a few years ago it is amazing how much money

we have had! we bought a camper, have had season passes for Darien Lake Theme Park for the past couple of years.... It's so great! And I don't have to smell the smoke anymore. I never did like the smoke, even when I smoked. I quit in 1998.

[Ruby the Liberal]

47. Congrats on that!

The FDA lost their battle to classify eCigs as both "medical delivery devices" and "tobacco products" a few years ago. Judge Leon something-or-other in the DC circuit ruled.

The question isn't "do you use nicotine", but "do you smoke tobacco products or use smokeless tobacco". Vapers shouldn't hesitate to say NO to those questions, IMO. There are 4-5,000 chemicals added to tobacco (can't have the paper burn too fast). Health concerns are WAY more complicated for smokers...

[jberryhill]

58. Right, but if you recently stopped smoking...

...then you may still qualify as a smoker.

[Ruby the Liberal]

123. If you know, how are they defining "recently"?

[jberryhill]

129. You're gonna love the answer

It varies by state.

[Ruby the Liberal]

137. Shocking.

[jberryhill]

139. But before I forget

If you ever go into town, there's a guy in Manayunk who opened up a brick and mortar ecig emporium and gaping parlor. Mixes juice to order and has a blueberry that is just awesome.

[Ruby the Liberal]

148. Link?

[arely staircase]

131. e-cigs have kept me from smoking for almost 2 years

and I only use them now when I am drinking or just get one of those out of nowhere cravings that have destroyed all past attempts to quit smoking. I think the anti-ecig agitprop comes straight from the tobacco companies who now realize there is an affordable, very workable way to quit their product.

[Ruby the Liberal]

44. They don't ask if you are a nicotine user

They ask if you smoke tobacco or use smokeless tobacco products.

eCigs were found in 2011 to not be considered "tobacco" for FDA purposes (or it may have been 2010).

I answer that "no", and I have been on eCigs for a few years now. My lung test last week (I had to blow into a contraption) showed my lung capacity as that of someone 32 who doesn't smoke, and I am in my late 40s and smoked for ~20 years.

Nicotine use != tobacco use.

[jberryhill]

130. That's not the issue

If someone says "I quit an hour ago" are they a smoker for the purpose of this question?

[Ruby the Liberal]

138. Apparently, it depends on the state.

[kentauros]

93. You look rather suave in your smoking jacket, too:

[leftstreet]

2. When they run your blood alcohol tests

Just kidding

[Pretzel_Warrior]

5. that's what the Total Information Awareness program at NSA was set up for

They can even tell you that you're paying too much for your smokes and offer to send you a list of 2 or 3 other locations with better prices.

[bunnies]

8. You beat me to it.

And did it better than I would have.

[displacedtexan]

52. You told!

I have to bring this up at our next One World Order meeting. Shame on you! I was going to nominate you for Supreme Leader, too!

[Yo_Mama]

63. Thank you for that helpful tip!

And the laugh. Much appreciated.

[dballance]

6. Actually, I was getting a work drug pre-screen a couple of weeks ago.

While I was wasting to pee in the cup a young lady came in and said she'd need the nicotine screen in addition to just regular.

So, yep, they can pee-test you for it I guess. The nurse also told me some places test finger nails now too. News to me.

[Hekate]

59. It can actually be detected by smell in the urine, though I'm sure they do a chem test instead

In old-time medical texts doctors were instructed to use their noses much more than they are today.

[dballance]

109. As a non-smoker, it's Usually easy for me to tell who smokes.

I don't go around smelling other peoples' urine but there are the very outward smells and signs that someone smokes. I don't care how much gum you chew after a cigarette break you still smell of smoke. Your hair smells, you clothes smell. In general there is a different color to one's teeth and skin. It's there if you just notice it.

I don't think it'd be much different to send someone who says they don't smoke for a test after noticing these things than it would be to send someone for a test if you thought you smelled alcohol on them at work.

[Hekate]

110. Exactly -- you're just using you're nose another way. I'm also a non-smoker.

The poster was talking about having to take a pee test, though. I'm sure there's a panel the lab can do that tests for nicotine while testing for opiates, meth, and all the rest. They pick up a ton of stuff if they're looking -- medications, hormones, contraceptives, and pregnancy. The kidneys are a heckuva filter.

Sadly, I know about the smell because I grew up in a house with smoking parents, a bunch of small kids, and one bathroom. It was normal to be taking a shower and have my mom come in to use the toilet, bringing her lit cigarette with her. The combination of steam, smoke, and the odor of nicotine in her urine used to make me queasy -- not from any sense of disgust at having to share the limited facilities that way, because privacy was at a premium after all. It's how I knew my teenaged daughter had started smoking, too -- despite not having to share facilities like that -- it was just such a pronounced odor that got left behind after she flushed and left the bathroom. It made me so sad. I'm pretty sure now that smoking is the reason my grandmother died of bladder cancer.

I don't believe in censuring or punishing smokers, but it is a huge health issue and doctors are right to ask. Patients would be stupid to lie to their doctors about that and a lot of other stuff.

[DireStrike]

120. Well sure but I don't imagine that would fly for an insurance company's legal challenge.

can you imagine?

"But your honor! Look at her teeth! Her skin! CAN'T YOU SMELL IT?"

"Case dismissed."

[dballance]

124. Well of course you are correct

I wasn't suggesting that at all. Merely noting that are outward signs of smoking that might cause mgmt to call BS on a person who claims to be a non-smoker and send them for court admissible testing. Just as they would if they suspected some one were drunk at work.

[Happyhippychick]

7. I've never had to verify it to health insurance companies

Life insurance I have but not health. They just believe it.

[B Calm]

10. Same here, never had a problem!

[B2G]

14. Excellent. Thanks!

[Sgent]

100. Yea but health insurers

can retroactively cancel your policy if they find out later.

Life insurance after 1-2 years (depending on the state) is locked in forever.

[treestar]

11. They can only enforce that by the breach

If someone is caught lying about it. How they can even find that out is a problem. Not everyone who gets lung cancer smokes. It would take a lot of investigation to find out. And how much smoking is too much?

[Mariana]

98. Most doctors ask if you smoke.

Then the doc submits that info to the insurance company, and you're busted.

I suppose you could just make sure to consistenly lie to both the insurance company and all your doctors, and then they'd have a hard time finding out.

[dipsydoodle]

13. Asking if anyone has got a light might be a giveaway.

.

[Buddha_of_Wisdom]

15. For a joint?

Surely not

[solarhydrocan]

17. People seriously believe that there won't be verification?

Blood tests. Guaranteed. Health insurance companies aren't going to leave it to "trust".

Anyone want to bet?

[DebJ]

23. Actually the insurance company will benefit much more by not screening in advance.

And then, when you have claims, they just don't pay them.
So you pay all the premiums, and end up with no coverage.

Problem isn't lung cancer, you say?

Doesn't matter.

Any serious high bill could result in them requiring a test or doing other things to verify your
status as a smoker, and then, as someone else said, it is insurance fraud. They pay
nothing, they keep your premiums, and you are SOL

[Junkdrawer]

65. ^^^ THIS ^^^^

[former9thward]

49. I want to bet.

Name your wager.

[solarhydrocan]

61. Well since I have no money because I've now got a new ~$300 bill...

how about a pack of American Spirit Organic

[former9thward]

68. Sorry, I only smoke cigars.

But I do always have a pack of Spirit's on me to give my underemployed musician friends at the bar I frequent.

[treestar]

132. Do they do it now?

I bought insurance and never had to undergo any type of test.

[randome]

18. By how badly you smell.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[wercal]

19. Some life insurance is based on smoking status

So this has to have been addressed before. I know it can be detected in urine...but somebody could say they are on e-cigs?

[Sunlei]

20. probably test for nicotine at some point & adjust your rates. I read

they can't refuse you insurance and several states don't even ask the smoking question. States that do ask can charge up to 50% higher rate for smokers. pee test at some time maybe with your first wellness exam?

Good incentive to quit now

[B2G]

22. But how would e-cigs and NRT figure in?

What are they testing for?

[DebJ]

24. Nicotine is in e-cigs. n/t

[B2G]

25. But I don't freakin smoke cigarettes

It's also in the theraputic gum, patches and inhalers.

[DebJ]

28. Well, nicotine will greatly increase your chance of heart attack, stroke,

and resulting injuries from heart attack, stroke.

I'm a smoker myself. The premium differences might win me over into the hell of quitting.
Can't get into the healthcare.gov site enough to see yet, but one thing I saw it will be thousands
of dollars per year in difference. If I could get that money and do something with my life for a
change other than pay bills and be on DU, that would greatly help me getting through quitting.
But if I have to be tobacco free for 12 months first, it isn't going to help. Might have to do it,
but it won't help. Of course, I will then have some money I won't be spending on cigarettes..

[B2G]

33. Myth

Myth: Nicotine replacement products increase the risk of cancer and heart disease.

Truth

-- More than 20 years of studies have shown no increased risk of cancer or heart disease among therapeutic nicotine users.

-- More than 110 studies involving more than 35,000 participants have demonstrated the safety of therapeutic nicotine, even in populations with specific health conditions, such as diabetes, high blood pressure, lung disease, and existing heart disease.

In addition, while the risk of cancer from smoking is well established, there is no clinical evidence that therapeutic nicotine products create a risk of cancer when used as directed. Therapeutic nicotine is not associated with any increase in the risk of heart attack, stroke or death.

-- Therapeutic nicotine is a safe and effective treatment approach even in people already diagnosed with angina or with history of heart attack.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/50838.php

[DebJ]

39. But do they mean it isn't an increase in risk compared to tobacco-procured nicotine?

I used the nicotine gum just once and my heart about jumped out of my chest within minutes.

[cthulu2016]

41. No, you're thinking of carbon monoxide

[HockeyMom]

45. See here's the problem with smoking rates

My sister-in-law smoked for 20 years and then quit at age 40. After 10 year she would have passed any test as a non-smoker. Then at age 50 she got throat cancer. Doctors blamed it on her smoking; years after she quit. I quess these stop smoking campaigns don't like to tell you that one.

I have seen what some insurance companies are now asking is you have EVER smoked in your life. I suppose what happened with my sister-in-law is the reason why. Just quitting doesn't always prevent getting cancer years later.

[DebJ]

77. Like the weird hard spots on my back where I got burned years ago....

the cells are damaged and that is that.

[forthemiddle]

113. My mom was a lifelong smoker (along with everyone else in the family)

But quit more than 10 years ago. She is now in the final stages of lung cancer (which was diagnosed 10 months ago), on hospice.
Unfortunately all of the bad effects of smoking don't end with the last cigarette, but they DO start with the first one.

[a kennedy]

115. This is my worst nightmare......smoked for a long, long time, quit for only 7 years, and I'm sure

I'll be a lung cancer patient soon. D*mn I wish I never started.

[forthemiddle]

136. I only quit two years ago

So I fear the same. Watching her go through it now only makes me more afraid.

[SoCalDem]

117. Some polices ask if you have used tobacco in FIVE years

The ironic thing is that smokers tend to get acute illnesses that kill rather quickly, and many times surgery is of little if any use, so smokers subsidize others by not lingering into their 80's & 90's..

[frazzled]

30. It asks about tobacco use, not nicotine

So people on gum (like our President), patch, or e-cigs could truthfully answer no.

[DebJ]

32. That might help me quit; the ecig. I tried patches

but grew weird little bumps under them that had to be tested for skin cancer.
Couldn't use them at night I couldn't sleep.

Last time I checked the gum had the nicotine equivalent of two very strong
Marlboros..afraid I'd have a heart attack from the gum!

[frazzled]

36. It totally could

I was a totally addicted smoker for many years. I didn't even intend to quit, but decided to try the e-cigarette thing as perhaps something I could use when smoking was not possible (like, everywhere!).

Without even trying, after the first e-cigarette cartouche I didn't have another tobacco cigarette ... even though I had a full carton sitting around. That carton still sits in a cabinet, but I don't even want them. After 45 years of smoking, that's pretty amazing.

I'd tried the patch (made me sick), and gum (didn't like the taste or chewing). This was so easy.

[DebJ]

42. Thanks. How does one buy an e-cig these days?

Last I heard it was over the internet from shady companies in Asia.

Do they cell them in stores now?

Wonder if this would be considered a quit-smoking program?

[Ruby the Liberal]

51. That was years ago.

American entrepreneurs stepped to the plate for local manufacturing and juices.

I personally like altsmoke.com for the Niquid nitocine juice and the eGo-C for the eCig 'cigarette" (altsmoke is backordered, but a quick google shows myfeedomsmokes.com has the best price right now).

Good luck.

[DebJ]

76. Thanks. N/T

[frazzled]

55. Go to Walgreens (if you have that)

or even 7-11 and try the starter pack of Blu brand. About $35 for a case that serves as a portable charger, two rechargeable batteries, a USB cord and car charger (you can use the USB in your computer to charge), and 5 nicotine vials (choose your flavor--I choose tobacco). Each vial is about the equivalent of a pack of cigarettes.

Or if you're not ready to commit, try one of the disposable versions. I believe they're around $9.95 for a version that is the equivalent of 2 packs. There are other brands of disposables, too (NJoy?), but I've never tried them. I like the Blu. And the nicotine mixture is made in the US.

[DebJ]

75. Thanks very much! n/t

[Change has come]

90. I've had great luck with this website

http://www.madvapes.com/

Here is a link to a great forum

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/

[bhikkhu]

106. From what I found looking into e-cigs

the best source for cheap liquids is http://www.onestopdiyshop.com/products/The-DIY-Flavor-Artisan%27s-Apprentice-Kit.html

That's a 6 good month supply kit for cheap, which also lets you fool around with flavors and nicotine levels. Chiming in because I shopped around, and sourcing the liquids is the one real problem most places. You can decent refillable devices just about anywhere; I got two for my wife on ebay, one small KGO unit, and also a flashy full-size "status" vaporizer.

[Revanchist]

119. You can buy them in many convenience stores now

but those can get expensive after awhile. The best advice I can give you is to do some research online of all the different brands out there and I would also recommend getting American made liquid. This site is a great resource and helped be switch from the one piece models to a much cheaper system.

http://tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/

[Mariana]

99. That's how the e-cig worked for me, too.

No intention of quitting at the time, just trying it out. I liked it so much I never smoked again.

[Sunlei]

29. nicotine that's what they test for and that is what e cigs are. Lot of jobs forbid nicotine use.

However, ACA insurance can't refuse you.

I don't know how they will handle people who say no, pay the lower rate and then are reported or caught as nicotine user. Maybe the IRS will bill you attach your pay until you pay 50% higher premium.

You can be a test case and say no.

[Lancero]

26. I'd figure that they would ask, and then confirm from past medical records.

Still though, it is hard to confirm by tests if a person is a smoker or not.

By hard to confirm I refer to 2nd and (Possibly?) 3rd degree smoke. Long enough exposure to this could easily make a non-smokers lungs appear similar to a smokers lung's. Most of the time, the doctor would be able to differentiate between the two, but if the exposure is severe enough, or the doctor lacking experience, then it's quite easy to to confuse damage done by exposure to smoke and actually smoking.

[Holly_Hobby]

31. My doctor has already tested me for nicotine (and illicit drugs)

She said it's the law because of Obamacare. I posted about it a few months ago, but I was accused of lying, etc. I swear it's the truth, that's what she said.

I was there for blood work related to a chronic illness, and she said she had to test me for nicotine and illicit drugs. It's the law because of Obamacare. That's also why they're keeping electronic records now too, so the insurance companies can check my records, as well as any specialist in the network can have access to my records.

So what if I wasn't buying Obamacare insurance? She said I would still be tested, it's the law. Maybe she's right, maybe she's wrong, but I WAS tested. And I'm not on any pharmaceuticals of any kind, so it's not like she had to test me because she was prescribing narcotics.

[B2G]

34. I don't believe this. They can't test for illicit drugs per the ACA

half of the population would be uninsurable.

[solarhydrocan]

38. +100 I believe you

anyone that thinks that much money will be left to "trust" hasn't been paying attention.

Too many people are being called liars. It's not very "democratic"

[former9thward]

54. Too many people believe any rumor they see.

It's not very "responsible".

[pnwmom]

64. It could be malpractice if a doctor didn't check for drugs

and ordered the wrong treatment because of this.

Drug interactions can occur between both legal and illegal drugs.

[DebJ]

79. I see my doctor four times a year and get blood tests at least once a year.

Never, ever ever get tested for illicit drug use.

Neither does my husband, my sweet little pincushion for the vampires.

[pnwmom]

88. Neither do I. But if a doctor had reasons for suspecting it,

I think she might be remiss in not testing. What if someone had symptoms that could be explained by drug use . . . or by some other serious disease?

[DebJ]

89. Certainly. But it's not a standard test everyone type of thing. n/t

[pnwmom]

92. Right. n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

141. You can be tested without your consent only if you arrive in the ER unresponsive...

[pnwmom]

144. Doctors frequently say they're going to do a blood draw

without itemizing all the tests they will be doing with the blood.

[ScreamingMeemie]

145. You can sue them and win if they run a tox screen without your consent.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK64567/

[pnwmom]

146. Where does it say that? This link is about trauma patients

who can't give consent.

When I googled, I found many answers from lawyers like this one:

http://attorneypages.com/law-questions/can-my-doctor-test-me-wit-145312.htm

[Hekate]

72. Possibly you should check up on what else your doc may be misinforming you about....

Record-sharing is supposed to be the new normal, however, as relates to medical professionals. The business with electronic records is to make sure relevant information is available to your health care provider even if you are unconscious and in the care of a total stranger. I myself would greatly appreciate not being given a lethal dose of penicillin (yes, I wear a tag).

I don't know about insurance companies, but they already know everything about you, afaik.

[Th1onein]

85. Your doctor is either an idiot, or a bald-faced liar.

You don't have to consent to any test, period. And if they do it against your will, it's battery.

And, by the way? I'd change doctors, if I were you. Your doctor is taking the mandate in Obamacare, that they must PROVIDE screening, without any out of pocket costs for you, and turning it into a mandate that you must be screened. Like I said---either a liar or an idiot.

[Mariana]

147. Of course, docs make money when they order tests

and draw blood and such. I've heard other stories and rumors of doctors telling their patients they "have to" have some test or procedure because of Obamacare. I think some doctors are saying this to get their patients to consent to tests they don't need, so the docs can make a few extra bucks on the office visits.

[Th1onein]

150. I wouldn't have a doctor who lied to me to get me to do something to make them more money.

I'd fire them and file an ethics complaint against them. How can you trust someone who does that?

[Mariana]

153. I guess enough people don't realize the doctors are lying

to make it worth their while. That's if these stories are even true, and it's not just a bunch of teabaggers making shit up as usual. Even if it is true, it's probably only a very few doctors doing it, and only with their most gullible patients.

[SoCalDem]

118. Sounds like you need a new doctor... a better one who's not a paranoid uninformed freak

[ScreamingMeemie]

140. Your doctor is a liar.

They can only test for illicit drugs if you arrive at the ER unresponsive.

[DebJ]

35. A note on the ACA and smoking penalties.

"And as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog points out,, ACA wouldn’t allow insurers to apply the full penalty against a smoker enrolled in a quit-smoking program. "


http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=4d0c1bda-98c3-4c2f-ab2b-d66160f6fe4d

Note that says FULL penalty...........

[B2G]

43. This still doesn't address NRT

And not everyone enrolls in a formal quit smoking program.

[moriah]

37. Most people are honest with their docs....

... and admit their smoking status. So if it's in your records that you're still smoking daily, then they'll likely get the information from that.

Now, if you haven't been to the doctor in years and you plan on quitting now, you could probably get by with not saying anything. My doctors know I used to smoke and I've occasionally bummed some since April, but I haven't smoked consistently. I thought it was going to be a year when I spoke to Blue Cross to get my rate quote, and they said six months. When I admitted to having bummed one twice this month, he said I still counted as a nonsmoker.

The final rule of what is "a tobacco user":

Under the final rule, “tobacco use” is defined as the use of a tobacco product or products four or more times per week within no longer than the past 6 months by legal users of tobacco products (generally those 18 years and older) and includes all tobacco products. The rule clarifies that the term tobacco use does not include religious or ceremonial uses of tobacco (for example, by American Indians and Alaska Natives).

http://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/Files/Downloads/market-rules-technical-summary-2-27-2013.pdf

[HockeyMom]

50. You assume people go to a doctor

Unless insurance companies REQUIRE blood tests, physicals, etc, which my self-insured employer did, how are they going to know?

BTW, Medicare and Medicaid do not ask about smoking, or anything health related. If a person does not go to a Wellness or physical exam, how will they even know? I guess they assume everyone goes to a free physical. lol

[Sunlei]

74. Those rules say "all tobacco products". Ecigs, the gum & patch made from tobacco?

I guess they get the nicotine for those products from tobacco?

[politicat]

107. Actually, no.

Lab grade nicotine is made from tomato and eggplant leaves. Apparently, it's cheaper to distill nicotine from non-tobacco nicotinoids because they have fewer close-compounds to refine out. (Also, tomato/eggplant leaves have almost no market, so cheap compared to tobacco.)

The last time we ran the geek bench bets (these devices are an adjunct to my research, so we do little experiments whenever we're bored, quibbling, or between funding) Ecig users were blowing 35-60ppm on a saliva cotinine test, while regular smokers blew 250-400. Non-smokers/vapers blow 8-15 (depending on diet, second-hand). People who live with or work in a place that exposes them to second hand for extended periods run 35-60, so slightly elevated, but clearly not smokers. (Cotinine is the long-life metabolite of nicotine, and cotinine tests are much more accurate than a nicotine blood test.)

[Sunlei]

116. Interesting about tomato & eggplant leaves! Thank you for the info.,answers the questions.

"saliva cotinine test" may be what insurance companies watch. Accurate, fast & sounds less expensive than other tests.

I'm sure the insurance companies will want to collect as much as they can from the Federal Gov. & the insured.

Thanks again, I learned a lot from your post.

[BainsBane]

40. The doctor can tell by looking at you

and smelling you. Anyone can spot a smoker.

[B2G]

48. So your doctor will report you to your insurance company? What about HIPPA?

[Mariana]

102. Oh, the insurance companies know how to get around that.

If you don't sign the form to permit your doctor to submit your records to the insurance company, the insurance company will simply decline to pay.

[Sgent]

103. HIPPA doesn't apply

there is a specific exception in the law in regards to transmission of information needed for payment.

Unless you pay in cash, the doctor is allowed to release your information to your insurance company, your name and date of service to a collection agency, etc.

[pipi_k]

46. Here is what they will do...

They'll have you sit in a room with a hidden camera with another "applicant" who is really a decoy.

The two of you will chat it up and get real friendly...then the decoy will casually reach into a pocket and ask if you'd like a smoke. If you say, "No thanks, I quit", or "Thanks, but I don't smoke", you're clean.

But if you take the cigarette...you are busted.



OK...maybe not.

[Hoyt]

53. Your lungs, yellow fingers, burned throat cilia, grey skin, give you away.

[RebelOne]

56. I am 74 and have been smoking since I was 16.

I may have black lungs, but I do not have yellow fingers (not with filtered cigarettes) and my skin is definitely not grey. If it was, you wouldn't be able to tell through the makeup.

[Hoyt]

57. When I smoked 20+ years ago, I looked and felt like crud.

[alcibiades_mystery]

104. You have no idea how bad you look and smell

It wasn't until I quit smoking that I could see it in myself and others.

22 years smoking.

RebelOne: you look and smell horrible. I know you think you don't, but you do.

[Tien1985]

152. And this sucks for

People who have NEVER smoked, but grew up and live among heavy smokers.

Not everyone who smells like smoke and deals with problems relating to second hand smoke is, themselves, a smoker.

[ScreamingMeemie]

60. This whole thread makes me think of this:

Which is kind of apropos...considering that's James Woods.

[pnwmom]

62. If you have medical records it's in there.

Assuming you've been truthful.

[Zorra]

66. They put you in a locked holding cell for four days and chain smoke outside of it with you watching.

If you beg for a cigarette, you get the penalty.

[B2G]

67. Lol

Good enough.

[DebJ]

80. LOL that's cruel and inhuman torture. I'm gonna light up just reading it. n/t

[DustyJoe]

69. one wonders

What if you don't smoke (shot in the lung in 1968), but live in a house full of smokers ? Can they make you get a divorce and move to a non-smoking facility ?

[The Midway Rebel]

70. Make you run a 100 yard dash.

[OhioChick]

71. "Smokers may get temporary break from Obamacare penalties"

"The Obama administration -- in yet another health care overhaul delay -- has quietly notified insurers that a computer system glitch will limit penalties that the law says the companies may charge smokers. A fix will take at least a year to put in place."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014531423

[B2G]

73. Wow. what does that mean?

[DebJ]

83. Sorry I missed out on that conversation.

A stiffer penalty for younger smokers might help stop some of them from engaging in this complete idiocy in the first place, and I'm all for that.

But reading that thread made me realize that nicotine addiction is being treated differently than heroin, cocaine,
alcoholism, and any other addiction. Like, you don't HAVE to smoke, you're not really an addict.

Last time I quit for a week, I drove across the yellow line on the highway twice without realizing it.
My brain is seriously addicted.


Will close by saying that if I can get better insurance rates without smoking, this WILL motivate me to try once again.

[we can do it]

78. Smell test?

[doc03]

81. Make you take 5 deep breaths if you choke half to death you

Last edited Sat Oct 12, 2013, 12:05 AM - Edit history (1)

are a smoker.

[jmowreader]

82. There is a urine test for it

The first order metabolite of nicotine is cotinine, and a marker for actual tobacco use (as opposed to something like a stop-smoking patch) is anabasine. Both are detectable in urine for up to 10 days after your last tobacco use.

[jberryhill]

95. That's why I don't pee indoors anymore

[Frank Cannon]

111. Yup, and I had to take it.

My insurer at my previous employer required it, though I'm not a smoker.

So yeah, folks. This definitely is a thing.

[Ruby the Liberal]

125. It is my understanding that the law is specific about "tobacco use"

So couldn't one insist on an anabasine test to prove they don't use tobacco - or are they all one thing?

[napi21]

84. I'm only guessing, but if you say no, and sign the form at end that swears the info

you gave us the truth, you best not get some disease that requires hospitalization, because they will deny coverage.

When I was signing up for a medicare supplement last year, that was one of the questions. The ins. broker I was working with said, you can lie, but if they find out, they'll cancel your ins. and not cover anything.

[stevenleser]

121. That's the key. In your worst hour of need you will be left with no care. Not a good bet at all. nt

[RobinA]

86. It Won't Be Long

until they own us completely. If they don't already.

[cynatnite]

87. Medical records...

If you tell the insurance company you don't smoke and get a smoking-related disease, they are going to check to see if you lied. One way is to check your medical records. Health insurance companies are allowed to check your medical records.

I would advise people to NOT lie about that.

[gopiscrap]

91. Probably passive enforcement

if they catch you some how, you will be charged with perjury or fraud

[FarCenter]

94. They have all your credit card records ... (use cash...)

[NuclearDem]

96. NSA's on it.

[kestrel91316]

97. They won't. But if you smoke and lie and say that you don't,

and then later develop a typical smoking-related type illness, your insurance company WILL scour your medical records for any information that says you DO smoke. And then you are in BIG trouble for insurance fraud. Policy cancellation will be the least of your worries.

They have always done this. And they still will. AND I SUPPORT IT.

Don't commit insurance fraud, and you won't have to worry.

[phleshdef]

105. Its the same as it was BEFORE the ACA.

If you lie about something, you can end up not getting certain things covered.

[beaglelover]

134. Exactly! How can so many people replying to this thread not realize that??? (eom)

[Deep13]

108. sniff test. nt

[a kennedy]

112. ha ha, they put you in a room and see how long before you start squirming.....

you know that ol' fix that needs attending will surface soon enough and they'll have their answer. I quit May 2nd 2006.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

133. a cheek swab.

my guess.

[beaglelover]

135. It is not that difficult to understand.....

If you lie and say you are a non smoker and then get sick with a smoking related illness, the insurance company will dig deeper before paying any of your claims and more than likely deny paying anything, so you'll be fucked and have to pay all the bills yourself. That keeps most people honest and they will indicate they are a smoker when applying for insurance. Many people are honest, believe it or not, EVEN smokers! Oh, the horrors!

[Greybnk48]

142. When I quit they ran a blood test for CO2 levels.

I wanted the lower premium on our insurance and had to prove that I had quit. I think they ran the test several months (3 to 6) after I had quit and my levels were consistent with a nonsmoker.

[LeftyMom]

143. Presumably your doctor has a nose.

[madville]

149. Honesty

Maybe they figured most people would do the right thing and answer the questions truthfully.